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Westside for confused bastards

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  • 07-05-2009 6:00pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭


    Decided this would be a worthwhile exercise as I think every time someone expresses an interest in Westside it is 99% of the time followed by
    But I tried reading up on it and I don't know what it's about

    That is because this type of training has been modified and misinterpreted more times than the bible, and caused nearly as many arguments.

    You might read articles by Louie Simmons, Westsides creator, or other gurus going on about converting negative kinetic energy into downforce ensuring you squat 1000lbs so long as you are traveling at 88mph. To me the inner workings of what this is all about are a bit far fetched and in some cases I think the reasons for the results were invented AFTER the good results were attained. But who am I to criticize.

    Here is a detailed layout of everything I learned when I embarked on a Westside routine. I spent weeks figuring it out but I've tried to simplify it down now so people can get what it's about easily enough.

    ME, DE, RE


    This is the first thing that throws you. WTF do they mean?

    ME = Max effort. You do one ME day a week for both your upper and lower body. The most important thing about ME day is that you get at least 3 or 4 lifts in at about 90% or above of your 1 rep max. This is why it is called Max Effort.
    MYTH ALERT: These 1 rep max attempts are not a test, of your strength. They are a strength building exercise. So many people believe it is just to test your strength, why the hell would you do that every week?
    The idea is to warm up to these 90% plus attempts, so you are not tired when you get to them, just ready and nice and loose. It should look something like this:

    50 x 5
    60 x 4
    70 x 3
    80 x 2
    90 x 1
    100 x 1
    110 x 1 New PR (personal record)
    105 x 1
    97.5 x 1

    As you can see you will have lifted heavy singles as your last 4 lifts, this is the business end of the set. What most of you will have trouble adapting to is only lifting 70 for 3 reps or 80 for 2. It will feel so light you will think "Kevpants is a douche, I'm getting nothing form lifting this for 2 reps". I am a total douche, but the point is everything up to those last few reps is a warm up. They don't matter. You don't have to break a PR for reps with 70% of your max, who cares? Do something else if that's what blows your skirt up.

    Your ME exercises will consist of:
    Upper body - Bench, Incline Bench, Close grip Bench, Floor Press (or similar).
    Lower body - Squat & Deadlift

    MYTH ALERT: Partial presses like floor press are not just for equipped powerlifters. So many people say you just need to concentrate on strength off the chest, wrong, there is about 10 inches of lift left after that and the bench fairies aren't going to help you. This is not "lockout training" that powerlifters talk about, that's the top 3 inches. There seems to be a middle 8 inches there that is no mans land and no one ever talks about it, do floor presses and train the middle bit.

    This might raise a few eyebrows, what about the boards/chains/bands/box squat? I just want to get one thing clear, screw the box squat. I'm writing this from the perspective of people who have just learned to squat. I don't think the box squat makes sense for people to move onto when they really just need to practice their regular squat more. The best thing for squatting is squats. All of the other bits of S&M gear are "nice to haves" and TBH over complicate things, you've enough on your plate with how I'll lay it out and you won't get bored.

    It's important that you are PR focused here but that you don't miss lifts. If you miss a lift it is your own fault, you didn't have to take that particular weight on. Whether you admit it or not, you know whether you're going to get it before you go for it. Try and get a small improvement wherever possible but avoid missing like the plague!

    DE = Dynamic Effort. One more thing to clarify. Screw dynamic effort. This is about building up bar speed. Bar speed is not your problem. Anyone reading this who is at the level where their bar speed is what's holding them back needs to go ask someone who knows more than me.

    RE - Repeat Effort. Or repetitive effort...or something. Anyway it is the good old multiple reps of manageable weight to add mass idea. And after being squished by ME day you'll skip down to the gym to do this one. Like ME day you do one RE day a week for both your upper and lower body. The idea is to set PR's of your own choice on either lighter bench, bench variations, squats or other assistance exercises that I'll get to next. RE day is not the end of the world, it's just there to help you along and provide some recovery/variety for your muscles and nervous system after the all out ME day. You might choose to do 3 sets of 10 with about 60% of your max bench and try and add weight over the weeks if you can. Mix it up every few weeks and remember it is completely supplementary to ME day. No one cares about your RE records.

    Assistance Exercises:
    Assistance exercises are the ones that take place after your main ME or RE sets. They are there to tackle weakpoints, not to try an improve on your already impressive DB bench record or whatever. What do you suck at? What held you back in the ME set you just finished? Whatever it was, go and do some direct work on it. If it's your hamstrings in the deadlift, go do good mornings. If it's your stability on the bench, go do upper back work. The main thing is to do the stuff that you hate, cos it's holding you back. A quick list of possible exercises. If you need clarification on any of them just ask.
    Upper: DB Bench, any kind of row, chins, bicep or tricep work, scap retraction work, dips.
    Lower: Ab work, Pause squats, good mornings, ab work, RDL/SLDL's, GHR's, ab work, hypers/rev hypers, ab work, leg press, ab work.

    Yes it is ALL about the ab work. No other muscle will help with your squat and deadlift more than your abs if you work hard enough at them.

    Structure & Cycles

    With Westside you will be doing a lot of work above 90% as I mentioned. What this means is you will be in danger of burning out, plateauing and subsequently getting weaker. To avert this we change the ME exercise of choice around every 3 weeks. Advanced people can change every 1 or 2 but I don't get why. It won't be an issue if you are starting off anyway. 3 weeks it is.

    So for upper day you might pick a cycle of 3 exercises like bench for 3 weeks, Incline bench for 3 weeks and floor press for 3 weeks and repeat. I think picking 3 is sufficient, I'd get a bit pissed off if I had to wait 2 months before my next bench cycle because I chose too many upper body exercises. For lower body you should just alternate between ME squats and ME deadlifts, and no arguments. Anyone who has recommended a beginner do max effort Good Mornings or something is a class A moron. Stick with these two, you'll feel rested and fired up after your 3 week break from each and the PR's will flow.

    Common questions:


    Can I use DB Bench for ME day?: No. That's silly.
    How often do I deload?: How often do you feel drained? Same answer.
    Do I need a belt?: It's personal choice. Personally I'd say wait an introduce it later and get an extra 10kg on your squat as a result.
    Do I have to do 4 days a week?: No you can do 4 days out of every 10 if you like. There are 4 days to a "weekly cycle" but you can spread it out if you want. It may even help with recovery.
    How many assitance exercises do I do?: I'd say no more than 3 or 4 per workout. Don't be so tired from the assistance work you can't do the work work. They are designed to help, don't let them hinder you.

    Hopefully this clear up most questions on how it works. If anything is unclear let me know.


«13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,179 ✭✭✭FunkZ


    Whoa thanks very much Kev!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭kevpants


    No worries. As I think of things that confused me I'll add them to the FAQ's. I'm sure I forgot something.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,333 ✭✭✭✭itsallaboutheL


    Who's going for new Fitness mod EH??:p

    Seriously good work Kev


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭kevpants


    Who's going for new Fitness mod EH??:p

    Yeah right.

    itsallaboutheL banned for not squatting.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,333 ✭✭✭✭itsallaboutheL


    i fcukin hate ye i'm off to the Ladies Lounge or somewhere they'll respect me for havin huge boobs pecs!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭the drifter


    i fcukin hate ye i'm off to the Ladies Lounge or somewhere they'll respect me for havin huge boobs pecs!!

    dont forget to bring your cable's with you....

    kev did you come up with that youself or is it robbed?

    if it aint robbed excellent post...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11 bomberboy


    kind of still struggling with this sorry but id love to try something like this so have a few questions if thats alright.

    its four days of what, one lower ME one upper ME, RE and what else? is that what the assistance exercises are?

    how many exercises do you do per day and what exercises? is it just one on your max effort day?

    is it good for making gains as it seems like you dont end up doing a huge amount of exercises per session?

    if these are all stupid questions that can be easily answered if i buy the programme then just let me know! :p


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Really good post.... I remember someone asking Jim Wendler about it before and he said basically it boils down to this;

    "You've one day where you lift really heavy sh!t slowly, and another day where you lift light sh!t fast"

    I'll add in a few tips of my own;

    -always try to move the bar as fast as possible with good form after you've done a warm up set or two on the main lifts. Apply this on ME day and RE day and you'll effectively train DE without even realising it.

    -RE/assistance work is what you do to build the main lift

    -Box squats are sh!t for a raw lifter as an ME exercise (by and large). You won't use the same form as when you're free squatting, and you'll just loose your groove.

    -Train your abs at least 2x a week, hard and heavy. Try to set weight and rep PR's. Kev said it already, but it bears repeating.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭dioltas


    Thanks for that. Just wondering there, in an unequipped pl meet, are belts allowed for the squat?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭tribulus


    bomberboy wrote: »
    kind of still struggling with this sorry but id love to try something like this so have a few questions if thats alright.

    its four days of what, one lower ME one upper ME, RE and what else? is that what the assistance exercises are?

    how many exercises do you do per day and what exercises? is it just one on your max effort day?

    is it good for making gains as it seems like you dont end up doing a huge amount of exercises per session?

    if these are all stupid questions that can be easily answered if i buy the programme then just let me know! :p

    One lower ME, one lower RE, one upper ME, one lower RE.

    Kevpants answered the how many exercises in his post.

    For the majority of people, focusing on getting stronger will lead to them getting bigger too. Bare in mind it's a strength program if you want to train specifically for mass you might consider something else.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭tribulus


    dioltas wrote: »
    Thanks for that. Just wondering there, in an unequipped pl meet, are belts allowed for the squat?

    Depends on the federation, though I'm not aware of any federation that forbids belts in unequipped lifting.

    I think even 100% Raw allow belts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭dioltas


    Ok thanks. Do ye usually use belts when squatting?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    I'll take a stab, Kev can update with stuff I've forgotten!!
    bomberboy wrote: »
    kind of still struggling with this sorry but id love to try something like this so have a few questions if thats alright.

    its four days of what, one lower ME one upper ME, RE and what else? is that what the assistance exercises are?

    The normal split is something like;

    Monday: ME Lower
    Tuesday: RE Upper
    Thursday: RE Lower
    Friday: ME Upper
    how many exercises do you do per day and what exercises? is it just one on your max effort day?

    ME or RE exercise plus 3-5 supplemental/assistance exercises (exercises that will improve the main lift in some way)
    is it good for making gains as it seems like you dont end up doing a huge amount of exercises per session?

    Quality -v- quantity tbh. 4 exercises done hard is much better than 6 done half assed.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    tribulus wrote: »
    Depends on the federation, though I'm not aware of any federation that forbids belts in unequipped lifting.

    I think even 100% Raw allow belts.

    In Ireland at least the IDFPA are still the only ones to offer an unequipped section, and you're allowed wear a belt and wrist wraps there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭ladowack


    Great Post kev, surely this can be sticky'd


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭bigstar


    Cracking Post.
    im might give this a go soon enough.
    thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭cardio,shoot me


    very informative post. cheers :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭kevpants


    Hanley wrote: »

    The normal split is something like;

    Monday: ME Lower
    Tuesday: RE Upper
    Thursday: RE Lower
    Friday: ME Upper

    Cherers, I knew I forgot something. Hanleys layout or

    Mon: ME Lower
    Tue: ME Upper
    Thu: RE Lower
    Fri: RE Upper

    are the most common. Just don't be knackerd coming into your ME days.
    bomberboy wrote: »
    kind of still struggling with this sorry but id love to try something like this so have a few questions if thats alright.

    its four days of what, one lower ME one upper ME, RE and what else? is that what the assistance exercises are?

    how many exercises do you do per day and what exercises? is it just one on your max effort day?

    is it good for making gains as it seems like you dont end up doing a huge amount of exercises per session?

    if these are all stupid questions that can be easily answered if i buy the programme then just let me know! :p

    Hanley clarified the exercises. You should be done in 45mins to an hour. It's about results not time in the gym.

    If you are in a rush just doing your ME exercise and getting out of there is ok every now and then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭kevpants



    kev did you come up with that youself or is it robbed?

    Do the masses of spelling mistakes not prove it's mine? :pac:

    Yeah it's just my conclusion from reading about a million websites on it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Quality work Kev, thanks.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,640 ✭✭✭podge57


    nice thread - box squats are def. not the way to go for most people

    rack pulls or block pulls would be a good addition for a ME exercise too - i think they are a lot different than regular deads and can help you hit your weakpoints


    cant believe you said "douche" though...


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    podge57 wrote: »
    nice thread - box squats are def. not the way to go for most people

    rack pulls or block pulls would be a good addition for a ME exercise too - i think they are a lot different than regular deads and can help you hit your weakpoints


    cant believe you said "douche" though...

    low rack pulls are AWESOME. Pulling from like 3-5 inches below your knee cap (or with the weight elevated 2-3 inches off the floor) is one of the best things you can do for your DL imo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭justdoit


    Thanks for taking the time Kev. Awesome post. Have steered clear of this programme because I train on my own and didn't have someone to clarify confusing bits with, but will consider later in the year...


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭BossArky


    kevpants wrote: »
    It should look something like this:

    50 x 5
    60 x 4
    70 x 3
    80 x 2
    90 x 1
    100 x 1
    110 x 1 New PR (personal record)
    105 x 1
    97.5 x 1

    So, there is no week or two building up to the PR attempts? You just hit it as hard as possible on the first week and just continue trying to add manageable increments each week?

    i.e. If my squat max is xxx do I aim to break xxx kg straight off on the first week?

    Thanks for the very informative post, Kev. I will be giving this a bash from June onwards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭kevpants


    BossArky wrote: »
    So, there is no week or two building up to the PR attempts? You just hit it as hard as possible on the first week and just continue trying to add manageable increments each week?

    i.e. If my squat max is xxx do I aim to break xxx kg straight off on the first week?

    That's it, you don't build up to anything. The stress of being under so many heavy singles makes you better at lifting them, it's that simple.

    For your first week you can maybe set a new "Westside PR" and go for something that you know you'll get but you know you couldn't do two reps of. The next week add a tiny increment to it. You don't necessarily have to go for the biggest weight possible every week. Like if you squatted 125kg as your heaviest lift of the day and it went up fairly quick but was a 2.5kg PR, don't go higher. Wait until next week when you might get 127.5kg just as easy.

    The thing about changing exercise every 3 weeks is that you come into it fresh, set some PR's and move on to the next exercise fresh for that. You don't hang around doing the same thing week after week. Get your PR's an move on.

    If you don't hit a PR every week of the 3 weeks it's not a disaster, so long as you are stronger at the end of week 3 than you were coming into it.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭BossArky


    Sounds good, cheers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46 springs


    kevpants wrote: »
    How often do I deload?: How often do you feel drained? Same answer.

    Hopefully this clear up most questions on how it works. If anything is unclear let me know.

    I hope this isn't a stupid question but how does one deload? I have been doing WS4SB now for 7 weeks (2 x 3 week cycles) and on this week I am really starting to tire. I am hitting PR's every session but I'd rather take next week off and let my body catch up.

    So I just wanted to know if you follow the same program and just use 50% instead. Same reps, same sets? Should you be tired after a deload workout?

    Thanks


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    springs wrote: »
    I hope this isn't a stupid question but how does one deload? I have been doing WS4SB now for 7 weeks (2 x 3 week cycles) and on this week I am really starting to tire. I am hitting PR's every session but I'd rather take next week off and let my body catch up.

    So I just wanted to know if you follow the same program and just use 50% instead. Same reps, same sets? Should you be tired after a deload workout?

    Thanks

    I'm a big fan of just going in to play about. Grab some weights, do some exercises but nothing too mad. I'd probably stay away from the main lifts and just do some assistance work with 60-70% of your normal weights.

    Kev might have something else to add!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,819 ✭✭✭✭g'em


    kev can you put a copy of this in the Fitness Basics sticky? And put a "for more discussion see here" and link to this thread at the end of it?

    I'd put your post straight into the thread only I think the last time I moved an OP post a black hole appeared in the intarweb...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭kevpants


    Hanley wrote: »
    I'm a big fan of just going in to play about. Grab some weights, do some exercises but nothing too mad. I'd probably stay away from the main lifts and just do some assistance work with 60-70% of your normal weights.

    Kev might have something else to add!


    That's about it.

    I sometimes just do nothing, take the week off.

    One thing I'd caution against is deciding to go in and do some new things, even if they are light. I mean don't go in and decide you're gonna do some cleans or some weird dumbell thing you saw on youtube if you've never done it before. It's gonna make your body respond by trying to adjust to it and you can end up not getting the rest you need.

    Some experts talk about deloading like it's a science. It isn't. Just recovery time is all.


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