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Larionovo

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12467

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    #92
    lalique
    Closed Accounts Posts: 30 ✭lalique


    ionapaul wrote: »
    Is 'constructive' the same thing as 'positive'?

    If I have some constructive but negative comments to make, should I or is it better to stay quiet?

    Of course you should make them,
    Just some of the posters on here who are obviouse Trolls are posting complete rubbish.

    I have direct communication with Ian the liquidator as well as others and things are moving forward. I also have a couple of aces up my sleeve.

    So we have a good case of getting it back.
    Karen


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    #93
    Overseas-buyer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭Overseas-buyer


    hello

    i am new on this forum. ive read your comments about larionovo, can you provide me with help or details to assist buyers? im buying in italy (calabria) in a small development called borgonovo which another irish company called VFI has developed.

    where can we get legal advice or assistance?

    thanks for your help


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    #94
    italiano1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭italiano1


    Hello there - i am also new to this forum .In relation to post # 93 , I am in the process of buying in borgonovo (italy) deposit was paid through Larionovo but the contract is with VFI. I will try to contact VFI directly and find out what is going on, but i feel that larionovo in this case were only the selling agent there shoud not be a problem - well i hope not.

    Regards


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    #95
    lalique
    Closed Accounts Posts: 30 ✭lalique


    I the only way there could be a problem is if the money was not pasted on, but I have no reason to doubt it wasn't.

    The best way forward as you say is to try and establish contact with the developer direct.

    Good luck and keep us up to date


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    #96
    Maximus1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Maximus1


    Hi,

    We have put down a 1st installment at the Borgonovo development. Although Larionovo were the agent we paid the installment through Giambrone & Law solicitors who passed it on to VFI on signing of contracts.

    Reading all the trouble with Larionovo I now wonder how safe VFI are?especially as the next installment is due soon and in the current economic climate,how financillay sound are VFI.
    There is a bank guarantee with the payments made, but again, with what is happening in the world presently, will that hold up.

    Would be interested to hear if anyone has any news on VFI or if anyone has been out to Pizzo to see the Borgonovo development recently.

    Regards
    Maximus1


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    #97
    jdivision
    Registered Users Posts: 4,260 ✭✭✭jdivision


    Anybody who was buying with this crowd should look at the inside back page of the Irish Times today or go to their website. Very worrying


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    #98
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    jdivision wrote: »
    Anybody who was buying with this crowd should look at the inside back page of the Irish Times today or go to their website. Very worrying

    could you provide a link please


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    #99
    Zagorkagirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 28 ✭Zagorkagirl


    Maximus1,

    I was in Pizzo at the end of September to view the site and the surrounding area. The development was at foundations level at the time but they've made a lot of progress since then. Pizzo is a lovely spot and I'm sure Borgo Novo will live up to expectations.

    The Larionovo thing is a little bit worrying but as another poster pointed out, our deposits were paid to the developers and not the agents.

    I have emailed Giambrone & Law to ask for some clarification and I suggest you do the same. Under no circumstances should you send money directly to VFI; you should only send money through your solicitor.

    My solrs G&L have requested the second installment (20%) but I won't be remitting this until I have assurances that my money is safe.

    I've attched a link for update photos of Borgo Novo construction.

    http://vfi-overseas-property.blogspot.com/

    Good Luck,
    Zagorkagirl


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    #100
    jdivision
    Registered Users Posts: 4,260 ✭✭✭jdivision


    irish_bob wrote: »
    could you provide a link please


    http://www.larionovo.com/
    Please be advised that Paul McCann was appointed Provisional Liquidator of Larionovo Limited on Tuesday 25th November 2008. If you have invested in a property development through Larionovo Limited but have not completed the purchase, please email larionovo@grantthornton.ie the following details:

    Your:
    1) Name
    2) Address
    3) E-mail contact details
    4) Amount of money invested
    5) Name of development

    Kindly note that we will contact you by email by 12 December 2008 with an update on your position.
    With regard to investors in the Indian development project the developer has indicated that he is willing to return deposits to Larionovo Limited to be held in trust for investors in full. The Provisional Liquidator is continuing to investigate this matter and will revert to investors with confirmation in due course.


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    #101
    Matt1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Matt1


    An extract from an email I received recently, everyone is starting to have a pop at each other!

    "You have received a letter from Giambrone in relation to the above payment. The contents of this letter is not correct and we will be informing Giambrone Law of the exact legal situation regarding your insurance bond issued by the developer-builder.
    As you can see we underlined developer-builder because no one has any legal authority to state comments which are legally wrong.
    The insurance bond is issued under Italian Law and is a requirement to insure the client for all of their payments which include the 30% and 20% PAYMENT.
    This insurance bond is taken out by the developer-builder as the Italian Law requires neither Giambrone Law or VFI have any involvement in this. It is part of Italian Law and under Italian Law is binding between the client and the developer . The letter you received by Giambrone Law is completely wrong and for a number of reasons is illegal.
    We firmly recommend that the 20% payment now due is transferred to VFI ‘s account so that your property can be processed quickly. Our clients and developers have had many problems with Giambrone ie late payments, wrong documentations, wrong names on contracts etc etc., and many of our clients and our developers are unhappy with Giambrone’s lack of professional organization .
    If you require the developer to confirm that he also wishes the 20% payment to be transferred to VFI’s account we can supply written confirmation of this from the developer."

    Perhaps VFI are sounding a little desperate as they are too struggling???


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    #102
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    jdivision wrote: »
    http://www.larionovo.com/
    Please be advised that Paul McCann was appointed Provisional Liquidator of Larionovo Limited on Tuesday 25th November 2008. If you have invested in a property development through Larionovo Limited but have not completed the purchase, please email larionovo@grantthornton.ie the following details:

    Your:
    1) Name
    2) Address
    3) E-mail contact details
    4) Amount of money invested
    5) Name of development

    Kindly note that we will contact you by email by 12 December 2008 with an update on your position.
    With regard to investors in the Indian development project the developer has indicated that he is willing to return deposits to Larionovo Limited to be held in trust for investors in full. The Provisional Liquidator is continuing to investigate this matter and will revert to investors with confirmation in due course.



    i meant a link to the irish times article


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    #103
    Irish Freddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭Irish Freddy


    I am also in the process of investing in the Borgonovo Property in Calabria and am very concerned by recent events.

    We are also with Giambrone who have indicated that fees, not included in original agreement, will be shared by all of us investors.

    Is anyone interested in forming some sort of group so that our efforts are concentrated?

    There's safety in numbers :)


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    #104
    Maximus1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Maximus1


    thank you Zagorakagirl,

    That information is very helpful. I am indeed in touch with Giambrone & Law as I am sure you are aware by now that both they and VFI are demanding payment of the next 20% re the Borgonovo development.

    The link with the photos was good to see as despite numerous requests, Larionovo could never supply such detail previously.

    It seems the most important thing now for all investors is the validity and the certainty of the bank bond guarantee. The letter I received from Gaimbrone Law cast a bit of doubt on this when they mentioned our monies were safe at the moment as long as the "developer reamined solvent". I thought this was exactly what the guarantee was suppose to protect us from !!
    We may need to seek "independent" advice on this matter....

    Regards
    Maximus1


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    #105
    marjan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭marjan


    Hello,

    We live in Belgium and we've also invested in Borgo Novo. We have received numerous e-mails from VFI answering to our questions. You can see the latest response below, but first I would like to ask if anyone has been in contact with Giambrone the past few days, because they do not answer to any of our mails...

    Here is the latest response from VFI:

    "
    I am here to confirm that yes Azzurra SRL is the developer-builder of Borgo Novo. The builder is at present preparing the confirmation where he prefers and recommends that you pay your second deposit to VFI and as soon as we receive this confirmation I will send it to you.

    The reasons that have led VFI and the builders-developers to make such requests are based on problems that have since come to light with regards to Giambrone and Law. We have had many complaints from clients with regards to Giambrone’s services and many errors with contracts being delayed and errors in the contracts have caused cancellations to make things worse there has been a delay in payments made and this puts your property at risk.

    Giambrone is delaying the transferring of funds to VFI and the builders, and this unfortunately is delaying the process. Not only this, the 10% Vat requested at this time is yet another error in the contract . This payment of Vat should have been stated in the contract. It is requested by Italian Law, the first stage payment is called in Italy a “ Caparra Confirmatoria” which is not subject to Vat but the second stage payment is subject to Vat . Of course you can get this confirmed by any impartial Italian Lawyer or Accountant .

    We surely do appreciate your concerns especially during these times of financial turmoil , that is why VFI wants to safe guard every client and assure that their deposits are allocated properly and efficiently without all the delays we have been experiencing.

    Please feel free to contact me at any time, and rest assure that I will email this confirmation signed by the builder."

    We don't know who to believe or who to trust in this matter...

    As I've read above most of you are planning to transfer the deposit to Giambrone, but what if they don't reply and therefore cannot confirm that they will send the money on in time?

    And one final quesion: if anyone has sought external, objective councelling, could he or she please tell us what his opinion on this matter is?

    Thank you very much!


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    #106
    Matt1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Matt1


    Hi, I received a letter from VFI in Italy yesterday assuring that the Larionovo issue had no impact on my Borgo Novo investment. I am not reassured as it was from "Jo" in aftersales (not a Managing Director etc.), was short and did not seem to have any legal status.

    I have been trying to decide what steps I need to take next and feel that the more input on this the better so have started a list (below). I would appreciate if anyone in same situation helps to build this list for everyones use.

    Action List

    1. Get written confirmation from VFI / Builder that original fee paid to Larionovo was passed on to the builder
    2. Get written confirmation that initial deposit of 20% was passed on to the builder
    3. Get written confirmation of status and legitamacy of bank guarantee/s
    4. Get standard, legal, written, signed letter from VFI / Giambrone as to the next steps required
    5. Share any independent legal advice in relation to the Borgo Novo investment on this forum
    6. (next list item here)
    7. (next list item here)

    This list will be a great help to me and hopefully some of the other less experienced investors out there like myself. If anyone has any skills (professional or otherwise) in this type of situation then it would be great if they could assist or even draft a standard letter which everyone could use. This may reduce any threatened extra legal cost which Giambrone mentioned.

    Thanks.


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    #107
    Irish Freddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭Irish Freddy


    Do not pay any IVA (Italian VAT) at this stage because the bank loan guarantee only covers exactly 50% of the total price. You will reach this when you pay the 20%.


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    #108
    afriendinneed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭afriendinneed


    Listen guys! I've had a place down here in Calabria for ten years and these ABC, XYZ, MEDC, VFB, MRX Johnny come lately boys have been taking you people for a ride since they crawled in here, thinking they could bring Spain to Calabria. Not only you but most of their employees, suppliers..and everyone else. The lawyers in 'use' for these transactions are no better..all in it for a fast buck.

    One by one, they're all leaving Calabria now, fast...and the place feels and smells better already!

    Don't pay anything, don't trust anyone...it's touch and go how many of these developments will get completed now.

    Check out the few other forums for Calabria- most people have suffered these problems or have been fleeced!

    If you want true local info (around Pizzo & Tropea, at least), I can help...and save you losing your hard earned cash!! As a minimum, I can put you in touch with at least two 'straight', Italian lawyers, with reasonable English, who can help (not free but no rip-off either). Italian lawyers are subject to far reaching penalties for under performing...they can't get away with the soft excuses peddled in UK & Ireland.

    I don't get a % - just interested in showing these things mainly start from outside..not with the (mainly) honest guys in Calabria. This whole 'off plan' thing did not exist before these Anglo Spanish/Irish guys arrived. The local developers used to start building and a little while before completion, stick a sign up saying 'Properties for sale'

    That was good enough for the locals and the odd overseas buyer and prices were around 50% of what's being asked now,


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    #109
    Ductape
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭Ductape


    Hey all...I'm another investor in Borgo...very disturbed with the current situation.
    While in the process of transferring money to VFI as indicated in the latest installment instructions I heard about this whole Larionovo business and belayed the transfer.
    From my experience with Giambrone thus far I tend to 'side' with VFI as from the first meeting with Giambrone in their London office and multiple phone call and emails since...they are without doubt the most unprofessional company I've ever dealt with...and i work travel all over the world...they are disgusting!

    VFI seems to be addressing concerns. Albeit we don't know if its out of professional concern and coutesy, fear, or illicit intentions.
    I am trying to get confirmation on something mentioned in a post concerning our bank gaurantees. That is, our money is gauranteed unless the builder goes under. This makes me nervours and any response comeing from Giambrone must be suspect with the precident the've set.

    While I'm not advocating blindly passing money to VFI and the builder without due diligence I'm concerned that if we all hold our money while trying to clarify this situation, we run the risk of making the builder go under because they don't have the proper backing and funds to continue development. That risk depends on the builders cash flow and savings...of which I have not idea how to get confirmation. But if they are on shaky ground I wonder if we run the risk of digging our own grave by not paying.

    I saw mention in an earlier post about seeking another solicitor.
    Is this something we might want to do as a group? Split the cost to have independent legal council look into this? Uk, IE, or Italian legal councel?

    Just thoughts as I try to understand the liabilities of this situation.
    I am trying to make contact with both Gaimbrone and VFI, I can't seem to find contact info for the builder Azzurra SRL, but will attempt to contact them through a translator if possible.


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    #110
    JamesIRL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭JamesIRL


    Zagorkagirl wrote: »
    Maximus1,

    I was in Pizzo at the end of September to view the site and the surrounding area. The development was at foundations level at the time but they've made a lot of progress since then. Pizzo is a lovely spot and I'm sure Borgo Novo will live up to expectations.

    The Larionovo thing is a little bit worrying but as another poster pointed out, our deposits were paid to the developers and not the agents.

    I have emailed Giambrone & Law to ask for some clarification and I suggest you do the same. Under no circumstances should you send money directly to VFI; you should only send money through your solicitor.

    My solrs G&L have requested the second installment (20%) but I won't be remitting this until I have assurances that my money is safe.

    I've attched a link for update photos of Borgo Novo construction.

    http://vfi-overseas-property.blogspot.com/

    Good Luck,
    Zagorkagirl

    Those are photos of Pizzo BEACH CLUB, NOT Borgo Novo.

    As for clarification from Giambrone; they do not return calls or have the courtesy to answer emails promptly to reassure any one.

    ALL OTHERS RE: BORGO NOVO: Progress pictures can be found at:http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fOKuN_YgEQ8&feature=related

    Also check out GHI oversease property investments(looks very similar to VFI website; also we should get in contact with
    http://www.internationalpropertylaw.com/Templates/IPL_Default.asp?modeID=&DoLogin=


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    #111
    Ductape
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭Ductape


    JamesIRL wrote: »
    Those are photos of Pizzo BEACH CLUB, NOT Borgo Novo.

    Hey JamesIRL,
    When you went to the VFI blog, did you click the November link? The blog defaults to December projects which includes the Beach Club. I did a google search and compared the Beach club design and construction photos against those supposedly Borgo and they look markedly different.
    Just want to make sure we are comparing the same properties.

    To you point though, does anyone have independent confirmation of the properties progress?


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    #112
    JamesIRL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭JamesIRL


    Ductape wrote: »
    JamesIRL wrote: »
    Those are photos of Pizzo BEACH CLUB, NOT Borgo Novo.

    Hey JamesIRL,
    When you went to the VFI blog, did you click the November link? The blog defaults to December projects which includes the Beach Club. I did a google search and compared the Beach club design and construction photos against those supposedly Borgo and they look markedly different.
    Just want to make sure we are comparing the same properties.

    To you point though, does anyone have independent confirmation of the properties progress?

    Hi Ductape
    No I did not see the link, could you forward?
    The Pizzo Beach Club is a few miles down the road from Borgo novo, and has a distinct orange facade. Borgo Novo is nowhere near having the facade completed, let alone rendered! The last update from VFI was that Borgo Novo was out of the ground, i.e foundations were complete. So the youtube link, looks right.
    PLease check out VFI and GHI, they look very similar, the terms of business in the GHI site refer to VFI (think its a spelling error, however, they recommend using Giaombrone.) so I get a feeling there is something going on between all of these companies. We should get more informaton about the builder, or as I am doing now, seeking independent legal advice.
    I dont think we should feel pressured into paying on the due date as they are demanding, the builder must be aware of what is happening and should know that investors will not part with their money. Giambrone have not dealt with any of us professonally, nor have VFI, I plan to pay through a lawyer once i get legal advice. I have no intention of paying the next installment on 31st December, if at all. I would rather lose the 1st payment and not both!
    I think if enough of us on this forum choose not to pay, we won't be penalised, and seriously, who IS 'Maria' from finance at VFI???


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    #113
    Descav
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭Descav


    hi all,

    New to this website and have only recently come back from travelling to realise all wasnt well on the borgonovo front.

    I too have invested and paid my 1st 30%.

    i have been on to Giambrone and VFI today and as posted earlier they seem to be contradicting each other.

    Has a group been set up in relation to any of these matters. Please contact me if you can. I agree with Matt1 who posted the questions and will try to add some of my own tomorrow.

    My main worries are at moment is something similiar to a previous respondant.
    1/If we delay could we be shooting ourselves in the foot?
    2/Also if we dont pay by 31st Dec, are we covered by the bank guaranteed bond

    As i said i have only discovered these problems as i've been away since March and i would appreciate having a talk to someone if possible.

    i will keep close eye on this forum but as of now.......i'm not so sure about paying 2nd installment over.

    All i can say from my quick research is that paying the money to the developer direct would seem to me the safest option at present.


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    #114
    marjan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭marjan


    I don't think it would be wise not to pay for two reasons:

    1; maybe we cause (financial) problems by not paying, problems that otherwise would not occur

    2; doesn't late payment equals a breach of contract?

    Last week we've decided not to wait any longer and we transfered the 20% to Giambrones account.

    A few days later we received a letter (in an e-mail from VFI) from the builder (Azzurra s.r.l), in which he says it's best to pay directly to the account of VFI or to his own account. If you ask VFI they can provide this letter.

    This week we've been e-mailing and calling Giambrone every day. Today I talked with the office in Vibo and they told me they we're waiting for authorisation from the head office in London to make the transfer...

    So I also called the London office and I spoke with Katy Beatty (who's not in Italy at the time, but in London) and she said they would certainly (100% she said) transfer the money in time, this is before friday evening when Giambrone goes on holiday until the beginning of next year! She also said she would mail me a receipt when they've made the transfer...

    Wait and see now, but I'm not letting them of the hook and I will call again tomorrow!

    I don't want to influence anyone, but I believe that anyone who decides to transfer the money to Giambrone may be to late (because their holiday starts friday evening). And as I said in the beginning, I don't believe not paying is the way to go...


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    #115
    atupper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭atupper


    Hi All,

    Again similar to most of you I have invested in this development. The latest update we have received from Giambrone today was to transfer the 20% directly to developer Azzurra (excluding any VAT which is due on completion) and this needs to be done by 31/12/08 to avoid any possible contract issues.


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    #116
    Matt1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Matt1


    atupper wrote: »
    Hi All,

    Again similar to most of you I have invested in this development. The latest update we have received from Giambrone today was to transfer the 20% directly to developer Azzurra (excluding any VAT which is due on completion) and this needs to be done by 31/12/08 to avoid any possible contract issues.

    Who did you speak to in Giambrone? I am after a contact name. Thanks.

    Liquidator of Larionovo is not involved with Borgo Novo. They made off the record comment that it may be wise to hold off payment until VFI / Giambrone sort themselves out rather than squabbling.


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    #117
    JamesIRL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭JamesIRL


    Would it be a good idea to arrange a meeting between ourselves?(the Irish investors) Safety in numbers and all that.


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    #118
    Descav
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭Descav


    JamesIRL wrote: »
    Would it be a good idea to arrange a meeting between ourselves?(the Irish investors) Safety in numbers and all that.


    Yes, i think this would be very good idea. Any interested parties please call me on 0872464063

    I was again in touch with VFI today and realised that some people have final completion date of 28th Feb 2010 and other 30th Sept 2010. I dont like how this sounds either.


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    #119
    atupper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭atupper


    I think this is good idea also. The contacts we have at Giambrone are karla.macedo@giambronelaw.co.uk (she also has skype which she said she is contactable on giambronelaw_karla) and katy.beatty@giambronelaw.co.uk


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    #120
    Matt1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Matt1


    Yes, good idea to meet. I dropped contracts etc. into lawyer this evening so I might have some good, independent advice next week.

    I notice VFI have an address on Dawson St in Dublin, is this just a post box? I'll drop round and take a look.


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    #121
    Maximus1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Maximus1


    Hi, does it say in any oy your contacts that the 2nd stage payment of 20% is due by 31/12/08 ?
    There is no mention of it in mine, but willr ead through it again at the weekend.


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