Padraig Harrington.....2015 Honda Classic Champion

soundsham · 04-09-2010 11:17am #1

just thought I might start this thread as often when searching for something in another thread it turns into a running commentary on why ph is loved or hated

Just thought all the bashing and hugging might be kept here

soundsham · 04-09-2010 11:21am

Myself I go both ways;)
While I'm happy he was picked for the RC I can see why many others worry about form
For me I think he'll play 3 times only at most and will be a super 4ball player

Martin567 · 04-09-2010 11:36am

soundsham wrote: »

Myself I go both ways;)
While I'm happy he was picked for the RC I can see why many others worry about form
For me I think he'll play 3 times only at most and will be a super 4ball player

I agree with the above and just wonder why some people find it so hard to get a bit of balance in these discussions. I've never suggested anything other than that the picks would have been very close. I just can't understand all the abuse he gets, a lot of it ill-informed.

Can anyone look at Paul Casey's form for the last few months and explain why they think it is so much better than Harrington's?

Morrisseeee · 04-09-2010 11:52am

He's a love-em-hate-em type of guy, partly because his form blows hot-n-cold, and this seems to down to his mental state, if he's in the mood then he'll beat anybody, but if he's not then I'd beat him myself

(not!). He's going to be under severe (mostly English) pressure to do well in this RC, so if he puts his 'right' head on that day he should pull through !

CageWager · 04-09-2010 11:55am

regardless of form if you ask any of the american players who they'd least like get involved in a crucial match with its harrington.. he might not be the most consistant player on the team and he might not seem to tear up the euro tour like other guys but he's a big game player and has the ability to shift gears when things get really tight.. thats the last person you want to be mixed up with on sunday afternoon in the swing match..

it would have been the worst decision in RC history not to pick him.. fair play to monty for using his head instead of just picking the english guys, not sure if faldo would have been so smart..

WHIP IT! · 04-09-2010 1:57pm

tad00 wrote: »

regardless of form if you ask any of the american players who they'd least like get involved in a crucial match with its harrington.. he might not be the most consistant player on the team and he might not seem to tear up the euro tour like other guys but he's a big game player and has the ability to shift gears when things get really tight.. thats the last person you want to be mixed up with on sunday afternoon in the swing match..

it would have been the worst decision in RC history not to pick him.. fair play to monty for using his head instead of just picking the english guys, not sure if faldo would have been so smart..

Faldo proved he wasn't...

Great post, perfectly put...

JerryHandbag · 04-09-2010 2:42pm

I expect him to get at least 2.5 out of 3pts in Ryder Cup. Used sparingly in much the same way Darren Clarke was in 2006. Driving is obviously a problem right now, but hes got a few weeks to shape up.

stockdam · 04-09-2010 7:47pm

tad00 wrote: »

regardless of form if you ask any of the american players who they'd least like get involved in a crucial match with its harrington..

I'd doubt that.........my guess is that they would be that confident that they don't care who they play. I don't think Harrington is above any of the other players on the team.

Personally I think Harrington is a nice guy.

soundsham · 04-09-2010 9:18pm

stockdam wrote: »

I'd doubt that.........my guess is that they would be that confident that they don't care who they play. I don't think Harrington is above any of the other players on the team.

Personally I think Harrington is a nice guy.

I wouldn't doubt it .......

DULLAHAN2 · 05-09-2010 10:12am

Martin567 wrote: »

Can anyone look at Paul Casey's form for the last few months and explain why they think it is so much better than Harrington's?

After Reading this, I had a quick look at the PGA stats and there isnt much between them or rose. The biggest difference is driving acc.

Rose Driving ACC 66.1

Casey Driving ACC. 60.9

Harrington Driving ACC 56.6

If Harrington could get more Accurate off the Tees he would be a very deadly and there would be no-one ridiculing his game.

soundsham · 05-09-2010 12:38pm

just heard on radio that he'll add another event to his schedule if he is indeed out of the fed-ex
man there will be some media atention on him for that:eek:.....tiger stuff!!

whocares86 · 05-09-2010 2:05pm

would it make more sense for Padraig to concentrate more playing in Europe and less in America. there might be more money on offer in the states but it might be easier to pick up a few wins in Europe and build up his confidence. he won the order of merit in 2006 and this followed with his major wins in 07 + 08. he has only played in Europe 3 times this year , Irish open, the open and PGA in Wentworth. he was due to play in Wales but was injured. i think its time to get back to basics by playing in Europe and hopefully getting a few wins

Dr.Silly · 06-09-2010 8:03am

tad00 wrote: »

regardless of form if you ask any of the american players who they'd least like get involved in a crucial match with its harrington.. he might not be the most consistant player on the team and he might not seem to tear up the euro tour like other guys but he's a big game player and has the ability to shift gears when things get really tight.. thats the last person you want to be mixed up with on sunday afternoon in the swing match..

it would have been the worst decision in RC history not to pick him.. fair play to monty for using his head instead of just picking the english guys, not sure if faldo would have been so smart..

Honestly, I haven't seen such a far from the truth post on this golf forum before, what a joke.
I have to laugh at people who are still backing harrington nowadays and think that his pick for the ryder cup team was justified.
Sorry, but people that think my above two comments are justified, do not have a clue about what's going on in the pga/european tour.

thelongfellow · 06-09-2010 8:40am

Dr.Silly wrote: »

Honestly, I haven't seen such a far from the truth post on this golf forum before, what a joke.
I have to laugh at people who are still backing harrington nowadays and think that his pick for the ryder cup team was justified.
Sorry, but people that think my above two comments are justified, do not have a clue about what's going on in the pga/european tour.

Really-you got two accounts?

Nice hatement about Harrington. Any chance you can throw in some facts to back it up? Maybe compare his year to Rose/Casey like others have done and then realise that Harrington has better results this year than Casey and similar ones to Rose).

Dr.Silly · 06-09-2010 8:48am

thelongfellow wrote: »

Really-you got two accounts?

what's that supposed to mean ?

Dr.Silly · 06-09-2010 8:57am

thelongfellow wrote: »

Really-you got two accounts?

Nice hatement about Harrington. Any chance you can throw in some facts to back it up? Maybe compare his year to Rose/Casey like others have done and then realise that Harrington has better results this year than Casey and similar ones to Rose).

so harrington has better results this year than Casey does he ?

Harrington /casey
Events played

17/14
Cuts made

12/11
1st

0/0
2nd

0/1
3rd

1/1
Top 5

5/5
Top 10

7/10
Prize Money

$1,381,453/$2,414,694
Fed Ex

57th/23rd

you still think harrington has better results than Casey ?

thelongfellow · 06-09-2010 9:04am

Dr.Silly wrote: »

so harrington has better results this year than Casey does he ?

Harrington /casey
Events played
17/14
Cuts made
12/11
1st
0/0
2nd
0/1
3rd
1/1
Top 5
5/5
Top 10
7/10
Prize Money
$1,381,453/$2,414,694
Fed Ex
57th/23rd

you still think harrington has better results than Casey ?

PGA Tour is it? What about the European tour?

In the five months from 1 April to 31 August, Padraig Harrington has played in 14 events and had 6 top 10 finishes. Paul Casey has had only 1 top 10 in 12 events

So based on current form-yes it's pretty obvious his results have been better than Casey.

Dr.Silly · 06-09-2010 9:11am

thelongfellow wrote: »

PGA Tour is it? What about the European tour?

So based on current form-yes it's pretty obvious his results have been better than Casey.

casey

Tour Rankings

PositionNo. of eventsMoney WonEuropean Tour1012€ 1,438,864

harrington

Tour Rankings

PositionNo. of eventsMoney WonEuropean Tour189€ 983,155

Stats are Stats buddy, and it's obviously clear that for 2010, we won't even talk about RyderCup stats, that Harrington is definetely the better form player :rolleyes:

thelongfellow · 06-09-2010 9:15am

Dr.Silly wrote: »

casey

Tour Rankings

PositionNo. of eventsMoney WonEuropean Tour1012€ 1,438,864

harrington

Tour Rankings

PositionNo. of eventsMoney WonEuropean Tour189€ 983,155

Stats are Stats buddy, and it's obviously clear that for 2010, we won't even talk about RyderCup stats, that Harrington is definetely the better form player :rolleyes:

Only reason Casey is so high on the money list is his second place in the Open-his only top 10 in nearly 6 months. Lets compare that to Harrington...

You like stats when you think they work for you. Pity that yours don't.

Dr.Silly · 06-09-2010 9:18am

thelongfellow wrote: »

Only reason Casey is so high on the money list is his second place in the Open-his only top 10 in nearly 6 months. Lets compare that to Harrington...

You like stats when you think they work for you. Pity that yours don't.

we haven't even taken into account caseys injury, what injury has harrington had, apart from his mental state.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12177_6348225,00.html

this interview is so so true

thelongfellow · 06-09-2010 9:41am

Dr.Silly wrote: »

we haven't even taken into account caseys injury, what injury has harrington had, apart from his mental state.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12177_6348225,00.html

this interview is so so true

HAHA good lad-I thought you were being serious for a few posts there.

Dr.Silly · 06-09-2010 9:42am

thelongfellow wrote: »

HAHA good lad-I thought you were being serious for a few posts there.

ah, blinded by patriotism, good man

DH2K9 · 06-09-2010 11:18pm

At the end of the day the question is who can perform on the big day and that is why Monty had to go with Harrington. No matter how he plays sky will still be complaining especially Rob Lee who thank god won't be commentating on the ryder cup, I can't stand him.

thelongfellow · 06-09-2010 11:34pm

DH2K9 wrote: »

At the end of the day the question is who can perform on the big day and that is why Monty had to go with Harrington. No matter how he plays sky will still be complaining especially Rob Lee who thank god won't be commentating on the ryder cup, I can't stand him.

Best way to watch it is without that commentary and just the natural sounds from the course i.e LIVE!

6 top 10's in the past few months and still there are other players with worse stats who should be ahead of him-Harrington was guaranteed a pick compared to Casey based on this years play alone.

R Lee talks like a man who has been off the tour since the 90's. Bitter.

harpsman · 06-09-2010 11:40pm

Martin567 wrote: »

I agree with the above and just wonder why some people find it so hard to get a bit of balance in these discussions. I've never suggested anything other than that the picks would have been very close. I just can't understand all the abuse he gets, a lot of it ill-informed.

Can anyone look at Paul Casey's form for the last few months and explain why they think it is so much better than Harrington's?

well 3rd and 12th in last two majors for starters.ph missed cut in both

thelongfellow · 06-09-2010 11:48pm

harpsman wrote: »

well 3rd and 7th in last two majors for starters.ph missed cut in both

3rd and 12th no? 5 top 10s this year for Casey. 7 for Harrington.

thelongfellow · 06-09-2010 11:51pm

thelongfellow wrote: »

3rd and 12th no? 5 top 10s this year for Casey. 7 for Harrington.

And all but Casey's 3rd at the Open came before March.

soundsham · 07-09-2010 7:04am

Quickly looked at FEC points and ph is at 57

So he's on next week,any cofirmation

Ok checked elsewhere he's out

harpsman · 07-09-2010 10:00am

thelongfellow wrote: »

And all but Casey's 3rd at the Open came before March.

Joke yes?british open july

MasterKZG · 07-09-2010 10:33am

soundsham wrote: »

Quickly looked at FEC points and ph is at 57

So he's on next week,any cofirmation

Ok checked elsewhere he's out

http://www.pgatour.com/2010/tournaments/r505/09/06/whos-eliminated/index.html

:(:(:(

07-09-2010 11:30am

soundsham wrote: »

For me I think he'll play 3 times only at most and will be a super 4ball player

JerryHandbag wrote: »

I expect him to get at least 2.5 out of 3pts in Ryder Cup.

What exactly are you basing this on? His RC record is fairly poor tbh, in the last one he only got 1/2 pt from 4 matches, and overall his 4ball record is probably his worst.

thelongfellow · 07-09-2010 11:32am

harpsman wrote: »

Joke yes?british open july

Reread my comment and you might get it.

Russman · 07-09-2010 1:49pm

Lads, we're all splitting hairs on the stats of Harrington and Casey. When we're talking about cuts made, top 10's etc etc broadly speaking there's not a lot between them on the last 12 month's form. I'm no particular fan of Padraig but I can't see how the argument for Casey is a convincing one (nor is the argument for Padraig either). Its the captain's call and he's made it, rightly or wrongly, he has to go by his gut feeling, not the Sky Sports/Robert Lee agenda which I can't fathom. Otherwise why have wild cards, why not just go right down to no.12 on the list ? The captain should have some leeway surely.

Had Monty picked Casey there would equally be no good argument the other way.

Without bringing too much overt patriotism into it, it seems sometimes that there's an underlying hint of jealously or bitterness that a supposed lesser player (Harrington, a scrambler in fairness) has 3 majors and is a bit mad, while the poster boys of UK golf have none. Maybe I'm wrong but I genuinely can't see why Sky seem so anti PH......

AGC · 07-09-2010 1:54pm

Russman wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong but I genuinely can't see why Sky seem so anti PH......

Because he isn't English

harpsman · 07-09-2010 2:57pm

Russman wrote: »

Lads, we're all splitting hairs on the stats of Harrington and Casey. When we're talking about cuts made, top 10's etc etc broadly speaking there's not a lot between them on the last 12 month's form. I'm no particular fan of Padraig but I can't see how the argument for Casey is a convincing one (nor is the argument for Padraig either). Its the captain's call and he's made it, rightly or wrongly, he has to go by his gut feeling, not the Sky Sports/Robert Lee agenda which I can't fathom. Otherwise why have wild cards, why not just go right down to no.12 on the list ? The captain should have some leeway surely.

Had Monty picked Casey there would equally be no good argument the other way.

Without bringing too much overt patriotism into it, it seems sometimes that there's an underlying hint of jealously or bitterness that a supposed lesser player (Harrington, a scrambler in fairness) has 3 majors and is a bit mad, while the poster boys of UK golf have none. Maybe I'm wrong but I genuinely can't see why Sky seem so anti PH......

Agree totally.it is toss of a coin.to call the decision a shocker is,well,typical sky.
anyway casey,daspite his confidence and big mouth is a repeated choker when it really matters

thelongfellow · 07-09-2010 3:11pm

harpsman wrote: »

Agree totally.it is toss of a coin.to call the decision a shocker is,well,typical sky.
anyway casey,daspite his confidence and big mouth is a repeated choker when it really matters

So Harrington is better than Casey now is he? Make up your mind.

harpsman · 07-09-2010 3:22pm

thelongfellow wrote: »

So Harrington is better than Casey now is he? Make up your mind.

Sigh.
First response was to somebody who asked for any evidence of casey recent form being better than harrington,to which i merely pointed out their respective results in last 2 majors,which as name suggests,are quite important.

2nd response was merely agreeing theres little in it and an opinion on paul caseys personality and career.

In answer to your question,yes i think harringtons better than casey-3 and 0, as the yanks say.

Lastly,for this particular match i would have picked casey if its solely about winning,but i think politically its difficult to leave out a 3 time recent major winner.

GreeBo · 07-09-2010 4:26pm

Harrington would have done much better this year (and last) if he could stop throwing in the 8's when he is in contention.
A single 8 in matchplay doesnt matter a jot if you are 6 up after 10.

antoobrien · 07-09-2010 5:38pm

Harrington's form over the year has been better - take a look at the WR points he won while the points list was open - 204.97 vs Casey's 164.51. It takes a lot to lose 40 points

ziggy · 07-09-2010 5:43pm

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Benicetomonty · 07-09-2010 9:11pm

I think a big factor in the pick was that Monty seems to have some sort of relationship with Harrington whereas Casey appears to be a little harder to get on with. I don't think PC comes across well in interviews; he is an engaging chap, but his arrogance is sometimes hard to ignore, notably when he explained his reasons for not travelling to the Czech Open.

Harrington on the other hand was far more self-deprecating, berating himself for poor scheduling and admitting his failure to play the last two events in Europe could and almost should cost him a place.
In that respect at the very least, he will unquestionably be a more popular character in the team room, which I'm sure Montgomerie was aware of. Even Olazabal has given Pod his backing, despite the bust-up they had in the Seve Trophy a few years back; he's frustrating as hell, but he's clearly a hard man to stay mad at (unless you're Sergio Garcia)

Based purely on results over two years, Casey deserved to be picked, but there's so much more to consider, not least of which is their over-all Ryder Cup records. Both of them, not just Harrington, flopped in Valhalla, and if the truth is told, neither of them would've felt much pressure at all in '06 and '04 because the victories were so great.

True pressure in the tournament, after the first tee shot is hit, only arises late Saturday and all day Sunday if the match is tight. Only Harrington has felt this in the last decade (not that thats Casey's fault, I hasten to add) and he came through it brilliantly, hockeying Calcavecchia at the Belfry and seeing off O' Meara in the ultimate pressure cauldron that was Brookline in 1999.

I think that's the player we'll see if it's required in Celtic Manor. Remember, in the Ryder Cup, golf becomes similar to other sports: you're only as good as the guy you're playing with! Or against....

f22 · 07-09-2010 9:16pm

Personally I think Casey would win more points for Europe but only time will tell. I hope Harrington proves me wrong.

soundsham · 07-09-2010 11:05pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Harrington would have done much better this year (and last) if he could stop throwing in the 8's when he is in contention.
A single 8 in matchplay doesnt matter a jot if you are 6 up after 10.

Or if your 6 down it means your dormie:D if you have it on the next hole

thelongfellow · 08-09-2010 3:09am

harpsman wrote: »

Sigh.
First response was to somebody who asked for any evidence of casey recent form being better than harrington,to which i merely pointed out their respective results in last 2 majors,which as name suggests,are quite important.

2nd response was merely agreeing theres little in it and an opinion on paul caseys personality and career.

In answer to your question,yes i think harringtons better than casey-3 and 0, as the yanks say.

Lastly,for this particular match i would have picked casey if its solely about winning,but i think politically its difficult to leave out a 3 time recent major winner.

If your willing to go back to the last two majors-one of which you got Caseys result wrong-why not go to total majors won? Casey has no 'bottle' when it comes to the majors. But then again, he is alot younger than Harrington who failed numerous times before he won his first.

How someone can say that Casey is a better golfer than Harrington is beyond me. It must be an opinion since facts definitely do not back that statement up.

Casey has a bad rep on tour as being arrogant and aloof. That might have something to do with him being overlooked as well.

ziggy · 08-09-2010 11:52am

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Russman · 08-09-2010 12:12pm

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Ahh come on, they're hardly the most reliable indicator, despite their name. Tiger still no.1 when he's been anything but the best player in the world for the last 18 months ??

As I said previously I've no particular preference between Casey and Harrington, there is little to choose between them, but most of Casey's points were earned in early 2009. As far as I know PH has earned more points in the last year (open to correction on this).

I go back to the point of rankings, why not just abandon Captain's Picks altogether if we want to use rankings (of any sort) as the barometer ? The whole idea of the pick is to give the captain freedom to choose from outside a given list.

ziggy · 08-09-2010 12:22pm

This post has been deleted.

08-09-2010 12:27pm

Benicetomonty wrote: »

I think a big factor in the pick was that Monty seems to have some sort of relationship with Harrington whereas Casey appears to be a little harder to get on with....

The rest of your post is excellent, but I don't agree with this part because

It is a hard decision for Casey to take, having been a guest at Montgomerie's wedding.

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/rydercup/7970989/Ryder-Cup-2010-Paul-Caseys-omission-proves-hard-to-justify-for-Colin-Montgomerie.html

Btw: The rest of that telegraph article is the biggest load of bitter crap i've seen on the matter.

Martin567 · 08-09-2010 12:37pm

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Casey has gained more world ranking points in this calendar year so far, mainly due to a 2nd place in the Matchplay back in February and a 3rd place in the Open. Harrington has more points in the last 12 months. Casey is still ahead of him in the World rankings due to his two wins back in April/May 2009.

In the last 6 months or so, Harrington has had a few missed cuts and a few good finishes. He has played very erratically at times. Casey has probably been more steady but, apart from the Open, his average performance has been to finish in about 25-30 position and not really threaten the lead.

Trampas · 08-09-2010 12:55pm

i thought PH was going to tee it up in europe. don't see him in the entry list for klm

f22 · 08-09-2010 1:02pm

Apparently playing the Irish PGA in Seapoint the week before the Ryder Cup.

Playing the Vivendi in France instead.

Padraig Harrington.....2015 Honda Classic Champion

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