HAYE CHISORA BRAWL

walshb · 22-02-2012 2:05pm

pacquiao wrote: »

That is exactly what he was thinking. He was smart enough to throw the first punch ,most people aren't. It's like the guy who walks towards you aggresively saying i don't want to fight with open arms and then he knocks you onto the ground and kicks you in the head. Seen it a million times. If on the other hand he said i don't want to fight and he was walking backwards using those open hand gestures then he isn't much of a threat. But when someone comes up to your face ,you either hit him, or you might be off to the hospital.

And, in saying this, Haye was not the man going forward and approaching. It was Chisora who did this, and after he had threatened to slap Haye. Haye was IMO well within his rights to act.

Draupnir · 22-02-2012 3:51pm

In my opinion, the Klitschkos are two of the greatest representatives boxing has ever had. They have huge respect for the sport, their opponents, the media and a massive sense of responsiblity that goes with their positions.

They don't trash talk, they don't refuse interviews or demand focus. They would be the first to congratulate someone who beat them and they are fantastic fighters both.

It's a real shame that they aren't recognised by the public at large as the huge positive role models that they are, talented, educated, articulate and respectful.

RiseToTheTop · 22-02-2012 4:19pm

When boxers trashtalk it is only in the name of the sport. Muhammad Ali trash talked, but people don't knock him for it a lot.

Plus while Haye and Chisora were brawling, Wladimir was standing on top of a desk giving thumbs up. I don't know how "classy" that is.

walshb · 22-02-2012 4:31pm

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

When boxers trashtalk it is only in the name of the sport. Muhammad Ali trash talked, but people don't knock him for it a lot.

Plus while Haye and Chisora were brawling, Wladimir was standing on top of a desk giving thumbs up. I don't know how "classy" that is.

Nobody said they were angels, but considering that the two men brawling are tits, and were tits to the Klits, what's the matter?

Dusty87 · 22-02-2012 5:02pm

Had to check i was in the right forum there with all the talk of tits and klits!

cowzerp · 22-02-2012 5:10pm

They where glad to see two classless individuals show themselves for what they are-this is after been spat on, slapped etc

How anyone can try knock them is beyond me

pacquiao · 22-02-2012 5:56pm

walshb wrote: »

And, in saying this, Haye was not the man going forward and approaching. It was Chisora who did this, and after he had threatened to slap Haye. Haye was IMO well within his rights to act.

Agree totally.

Discodog · 22-02-2012 6:29pm

cowzerp wrote: »

How anyone can try knock them is beyond me

Give it 20 or 30 years & see how they are remembered against the likes of the greats - they won't be. Great boxers are fighters. They have faced epic battles against the best opponents & no one gives a fart as to whether they are nice gentlemen or not.

People are getting carried away with the hype that has always been there. Anyone who has watched interviews with Ali, Foreman, Frazier etc will hear how the hype was planned & how they now joke about it. Ali even went to jail branded as a coward yet now he is the most revered sportsman in the world

Sportsmen are also entertainers. The build up to any event & the memories afterwards always last far longer than the event itself. We need a new exciting heavyweight to breath some life into the division.

walshb · 22-02-2012 6:49pm

cowzerp wrote: »

How anyone can try knock them is beyond me

Why?

You have been very critical of Rocky, and base it on him lacking skill, and fighting bums and weak opposition. Well, many think that the likes of Chisora, Williams, 39 year old Briggs, Haye, Adamek, Kirk Johnson etc are weak opposition.

Also, both Klits, although very effective, mainly due to size and talent, could look very cumbersome and awkward. Vitali's footowork is pretty average. They are skilled, competent, but where is it so much more evident with them as opposed to Rocky? At least Rocky had an inside game. Very very good one too. The Klits were very very predictable. Jab, jab, jab, right cross, repeat! Effective? Yes. As skilled as Rocky's game? No.

Rocky to me throws far better varied punches than both.

And, Rocky came to kill all the time. Non stop wanting to kill, which to many, me included, is a far more appealing style than the Klits, who have been very cautious, reluctant and in safe mode. Not all the time, but plenty of times.

I brought in Rocky merley to point out that the Klits getting criticised, or not praised enough, does not surprise me.

If Rocky can get badly criticised, then so can the Klits.

barney4001 · 22-02-2012 7:45pm

BAN THEM BOTH

cowzerp · 22-02-2012 8:23pm

Rockys opponents where poor! he had awful technique and had no outside game, he was technically crude in all areas and relied on big power or he would lose-I'm not discussing rocky here as I have put lots of facts up about him and his poor opposition, aswell as how he lost an amateur fight during his pro career and most people feel he lost as a pro but his opponent was robbed. Vitali has only lost by injuries and was ahead in both fights. Plus most everyone has conceded that if they where to fight Vitali would win, and before people mention size Vitali fighting back then with rocky was a perfectly legal fight.

walshb · 22-02-2012 8:52pm

cowzerp wrote: »

Rockys opponents where poor! he had awful technique and had no outside game, he was technically crude in all areas and relied on big power or he would lose-I'm not discussing rocky here as I have put lots of facts up about him and his poor opposition, aswell as how he lost an amateur fight during his pro career and most people feel he lost as a pro but his opponent was robbed. Vitali has only lost by injuries and was ahead in both fights. Plus most everyone has conceded that if they where to fight Vitali would win, and before people mention size Vitali fighting back then with rocky was a perfectly legal fight.

Yes, in your eyes all this is true. But, in many others eyes, this is true with Klits. Hence, why are you suprised anyone knocks the Klits?

The Klits are very decent HWs, but they are far from beyond criticism. It's like you are refusing to hear anyone criticise them, yet you openly criticise other great HW champs.

I really find it odd that you would find it odd that folks could knock them. Many would say the same about your knocking Rocky. "How can you knock Rocky?"

This comes from a fight fan who appreciates both Rocky and the Klits. I was not posting to bring up Rocky, or Rocky vs. the Klits. I was using him as an example as regards your finding it odd that anyone can knock the Klits.

I would bet that if a poll was conducted from real fight fans, writers, historians and boxing afficionados, Rocky would poll better than the Klits in p4p and HW greatness. Hence, why I find it odd that you think the Klits receiving criticism is odd.

tryingmybestt · 22-02-2012 8:57pm

Marciano's legacy is much better than either of the klitschko's

Marciano's exciting reign as champion is much better than any of the Klitschko's

Marciano overcame many more obstacles than the Klitschkos' such as small, very short arms, cut very easily etc.

Marciao had amazing power and balance

Marciano also had great stamina and toughness

Many ppl rate these qualities highest when it comes to professional boxing

Some ppl can't see the wood from the trees and are trying to play the race card when it comes to ppl saying the Klitschkos are boring etc.

It's nothing to do with race, nationality etc.

It's all to do with personality, fighting style !

cowzerp · 22-02-2012 9:19pm

walshb wrote: »

Yes, in your eyes all this is true. But, in many others eyes, this is true with Klits. Hence, why are you suprised anyone knocks the Klits?

The Klits are very decent HWs, but they are far from beyond criticism. It's like you are refusing to hear anyone criticise them, yet you openly criticise other great HW champs.

I really find it odd that you would find it odd that folks could knock them. Many would say the same about your knocking Rocky. "How can you knock Rocky?" .

What I questioned was nothing to do with questioning his skills, it was questioning their class during the haye chisora incident-read back and you'll realise that.

Rocky by all means was a classy fella out of the ring, this I'm not disputing.

sxt · 22-02-2012 9:21pm

tryingmybestt wrote: »

Marciano's legacy is much better than either of the klitschko's

Marciano's exciting reign as champion is much better than any of the Klitschko's

Marciano overcame many more obstacles than the Klitschkos' such as small, very short arms, cut very easily etc.

Marciao had amazing power and balance

Marciano also had great stamina and toughness

Many ppl rate these qualities highest when it comes to professional boxing

Some ppl can't see the wood from the trees and are trying to play the race card when it comes to ppl saying the Klitschkos are boring etc.

It's nothing to do with race, nationality etc.

It's all to do with personality, fighting style !

Of course Rocky was more exciting , and had a more exciting style! That was the style of that era!

The thing is if you post Rocky ( or any great from any past era) vs Vitali today on aboxing forum ( they are usually American forums) , say there is a 100 posters, 80% of posters will say Vitali gets ko'ed no matter who his opponent is , without any explanation about how that happens

Rocky is a legend , but you have to put things into perspective , he is not a heavyweight today, he only had a three year reign lets remember .The fights back then were way more exciting because it was a slug it out to the end fight

Rocky's last fight against an older Archie Moore is swinging left right left right left left right left right left right for a the whole eight rounds. It was all about giving punishment and receiving punishment at the same time , and see who could last longest. Rocky reigned supreme and all the credit to him

walshb · 22-02-2012 9:23pm

cowzerp wrote: »

What I questioned was nothing to do with questioning his skills, it was questioning their class during the haye chisora incident-read back and you'll realise that.

Rocky by all means was a classy fella out of the ring, this I'm not disputing.

Okey doke, that I agree with. I assumed you were perplexed as to why anyone would be knocking them as regards their talent and skill in the ring. You should have said that after my first rant, Paul. It would have spared you my second rant.;)

tryingmybestt · 22-02-2012 9:29pm

sxt wrote: »

Of course Rocky was more exciting , and had a more exciting style! That was the style of that era!

The thing is if you post Rocky ( or any great from any past era) vs Vitali today on aboxing forum ( they are usually American forums) , say there is a 100 posters, 80% of posters will say Vitali gets ko'ed no matter who his opponent is , without any explanation about how that happens

Rocky is a legend , but you have to put things into perspective , he is not a heavyweight today,

The 'style of that era' was to fight and brawl like rocky...??
that was the era of joe louis, archie moore, sugar ray etc......rocky was hardly the style of that era!

I would love to see any proof of this wild statement you make.....show me the surveys etc.

Nobody is disputing that rocky wouldn't be a HW today as too small, he would be a cruiser.

rocky did have a great reign as HW champion, FAct!

nacho libre · 24-02-2012 2:10am

walshb wrote: »

Again, who approached who? What was Haye to do? Run? He runs and he gets slated. Chisora was the one who instigated the confrontation. Haye did not approach Chisora.

I suspect if someone squared up to you on a night out, you then decided to punch them first, consequently they end up cracking their head off the pavement, your defense of being within your rights to act might not prove too successful in court. Fleeing might be viewed as a better act.

I know that walking away or even running away may be seen as wimpish(unmanly)by you, but i'd wager some people who have found themselves up in court on manslaughter charges, might have wished they or their victim had done just that.

Spazdarn · 24-02-2012 5:48am

nacho libre wrote: »

I suspect if someone squared up to you on a night out, you then decided to punch them first, consequently they end up cracking their head off the pavement, your defense of being within your rights to act might not prove too successful in court. Fleeing might be viewed as a better act.

I know that walking away or even running away may be seen as wimpish(unmanly)by you, but i'd wager some people who have found themselves up in court on manslaughter charges, might have wished they or their victim had done just that.

That's about as extreme an outcome as you could have come up with, don't throw the first punch or you'll kill him.

By your skewed logic you could say by throwing the first punch he potentially could have saved his own life, because if he left the first punch to an animal like Chisora god knows what he may have done!

walshb · 24-02-2012 8:54am

nacho libre wrote: »

I know that walking away or even running away may be seen as wimpish(unmanly)by you, .

No, I never said I thought this. I said Haye would most likely have got slated.

Haye in this situation had no real option but to stay. Now, Chisora approached him aggressively, and Haye acted.
Security should never have allowed Chisora to get that close, so really it was security who let Haye down here and forced Haye to act.

As regards out in the big bad world, yes, if I thought violence was about to erupt, I would use my fisrt weapon, my legs, to run!

cowzerp · 24-02-2012 10:55am

ToiletFusion wrote: »

That's about as extreme an outcome as you could have come up with, don't throw the first punch or you'll kill him.

By your skewed logic you could say by throwing the first punch he potentially could have saved his own life, because if he left the first punch to an animal like Chisora god knows what he may have done!

he's not saying the 1st punch=kill is the point, he's saying that legally you will be the 1 in trouble if you throw the 1st punch.

Legally Haye should have walked away, been the 1st to strike makes him the attacker.

walshb · 24-02-2012 11:11am

cowzerp wrote: »

he's not saying the 1st punch=kill is the point, he's saying that legally you will be the 1 in trouble if you throw the 1st punch.

Legally Haye should have walked away, been the 1st to strike makes him the attacker.

But, one must look at the circumstances, the threats etc, Chisora' body language. Removing his robe, was it, walking towards Haye, and then make a call. I think self defence is a possibility here. Bowe whacking Larry Donald is a case of Bowe being the attacker. No real sefl defence case there.

cowzerp · 24-02-2012 11:47am

walshb wrote: »

But, one must look at the circumstances, the threats etc, Chisora' body language. Removing his robe, was it, walking towards Haye. and then make a call. I think self defence is a possibility here. Bowe whacking Larry Donald is a case of Bowe being the attacker. No real sefl defence case there.

Not legally-Haye had chance to get out of situation and chose not too, then he hit 1st blow, sentencing might be more leniant but the law is not on his side.

He was the attacker legally, its not about opinion here-if its opinion i agree with you but the law is rigid and not flexible.

walshb · 24-02-2012 11:53am

cowzerp wrote: »

Not legally-Haye had chance to get out of situation and chose not too, then he hit 1st blow, sentencing might be more leniant but the law is not on his side.

He was the attacker legally, its not about opinion here-if its opinion i agree with you but the law is rigid and not flexible.

I don't know the legal stance, but I don't think a person must first attempt to flee, and only then can he/she claim self defence.

The law is far from rigid. It's an ass, that is the problem with it. Defence teams can put up any half ass argument, and at times, it's accepted.

If I was judging on this I would not convict Haye for assault.

The Bowe incident. I would convict.

cowzerp · 24-02-2012 12:18pm

when it comes to self defense its fairly simple, if you have the chance to flea and don't take it then that goes against you, if you throw 1st blow your the attacker, this would be different if they entered your house etc

Chisora probably would have slapped him but he did say he was coming down to talk to him-Haye while in reality was probably defending himself, he was not really within the law.

Spazdarn · 24-02-2012 1:43pm

cowzerp wrote: »

Not legally-Haye had chance to get out of situation and chose not too, then he hit 1st blow, sentencing might be more leniant but the law is not on his side.

He was the attacker legally, its not about opinion here-if its opinion i agree with you but the law is rigid and not flexible.

Chisora did previously say they'd settle this in London and that he would go down and kick his ass... so I wouldn't really expect talking if he came at me like that.

If you look at the pictures Chisora's fist was raised to his face first before Haye's punch occurred, so that could be used as more than enough to plead self defence.

haye-chisora-brawl%20(4).jpg

weemcd · 24-02-2012 11:02pm

Apologies if this has been posted already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwpGyTU54gk

Haye and Vitali seem like great bud's at the end of this.

Do not be surprised if you see them in the ring this summer, $$ cash rules everything

plasmaguy · 25-02-2012 1:23am

If Haye punched him without holding a bottle, fair enough, although still stupid thing to do either way.

Throwing the tripod was childish.

Both of them got owned by the Klitchkos anyways. Good riddance to both.

As for Haye v Vitali, I'd pay not to see it. Both just looking for a paycheck, and Haye would be out of his depth. Second rate HW imo.

We need a new Tyson or Ali.

ebbsy · 25-02-2012 8:26am

I think the spitting incident in the ring by Chisora needs to be dealt with more than anything else - thats not cool.

I have a sneaking feeling he might get a lengthy ban, a lot longer than some people might think.

Bandana boy · 26-02-2012 3:51pm

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/heavyweights-in-name-only-3031920.html

Interesting article in the rag that is the indo ,which sums up the boxing game today pretty well

gene_tunney · 26-02-2012 4:06pm

Bandana boy wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/heavyweights-in-name-only-3031920.html

Interesting article in the rag that is the indo ,which sums up the boxing game today pretty well

That was a terrible article, written by an ill-informed sensationalist.

walshb · 26-02-2012 4:26pm

Care to point out where he is ill informed? His views are held by many many fans and historians.

I read the article and he makes very valid points. One is Haye being a HW champ. That does go to show that the HW scene is in a bad way. He was comparing this to eras gone by where Haye wouldn't have got a look in.

"Wladimir's next opponent is Jean Marc Mormeck, a 5ft 11ins 39-year-old who was knocked out by Haye at Cruiserweight five years ago and has fought three times since. Who he?

Who cares?"

I mean the quote above says it all. How is this, for example, ill informed or sensationalist?

nacho libre · 27-02-2012 12:45am

walshb wrote: »

No, I never said I thought this. I said Haye would most likely have got slated.

Haye in this situation had no real option but to stay. Now, Chisora approached him aggressively, and Haye acted.
Security should never have allowed Chisora to get that close, so really it was security who let Haye down here and forced Haye to act.
run!

I think he'd have gotten over being slated by a minority. Most people would have praised him for trying to avoid conflict.

I agree security were at fault for allowing them coming together. Although RTL share some blame as they encouraged Haye to attend the press conference.

nacho libre · 27-02-2012 1:16am

ToiletFusion wrote: »

That's about as extreme an outcome as you could have come up with, don't throw the first punch or you'll kill him.

By your skewed logic you could say by throwing the first punch he potentially could have saved his own life, because if he left the first punch to an animal like Chisora god knows what he may have done!

It's not skewed logic in the eyes of the law, though.
Throwing the first punch, while he had a bottle in his hand, is unlikely to convince a jury he was merely acting in self defense. Coupled with the fact he also threw a tripod at someone while they were being held, then it is very unlikely a plead of self defense would be successful.

Spazdarn · 27-02-2012 11:36am

nacho libre wrote: »

It's not skewed logic in the eyes of the law, though.
Throwing the first punch, while he had a bottle in your hand, is unlikely to convince a jury he was merely acting in self defense. Coupled with the fact he also threw a tripod at someone while they were being held, then it is very unlikely a plead of self defense would be successful.

Yes but like the image I posted, it was Chisora who raised his fist to him first...

RiseToTheTop · 27-02-2012 3:19pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiOQsW7weRw

nacho libre · 27-02-2012 6:13pm

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Yes but like the image I posted, it was Chisora who raised his fist to him first...

The image would likely be viewed as irrelevant, as speculating on what Chisora might have done won't work.
Haye threw the first punch, therefore in the eyes of the law he is deemed the aggressor. So as I said a self- defense verdict is unlikely to prove successful in court.

walshb · 27-02-2012 6:19pm

nacho libre wrote: »

The image would likely be viewed as irrelevant, as speculating on what Chisora might have done won't work.
Haye threw the first punch, therefore in the eyes of the law he is deemed the aggressor. So as I said a self- defense verdict is unlikely to prove successful in court.

May or may not be successful in court, as the law is an ass at times, but really, I don't blame Haye for striking first when one takes into account all that went on, and who it was that was approaching him.

nacho libre · 27-02-2012 6:33pm

walshb wrote: »

May or may not be successful in court, as the law is an ass at times, but really, I don't blame Haye for striking first when one takes into account all that went on, and who it was that was approaching him.

Well he could have tried to flee.... yes, it maybe seen as wussy behaviour by some, but he's have been widely praised by many for taking that course of action and in the process avoiding bad headlines for boxing. If there is no other option, then I could well understand striking first given Chisora's past actions. However, in a court case he would be seen as the aggressor given what transpired and the fact he made no attempt to flee. Although the court maybe more lenient given Chisora's previous history.

Spazdarn · 27-02-2012 7:33pm

In our ****ty legal system a raised fist against your face would definitely get you off I'd say.

If it went to court, the video coverage, Chisora getting up out of his chair to come down to him, the taunts and threats, Chisora's actions that weekend regarding Wlad and Vitali and his history of violence and trouble with the police before...would surely be brought up, paints a fairly bad character reference.

Not a hope Haye would get done for it. Well not a hope may be too fool hardy but I'd be very surprised if Haye received any punishment. Chisora would have to bring forth the charges and imagine he'd have had enough on his plate.

Discodog · 27-02-2012 7:51pm

All the fuss & yet Chisora returned to Germany & was at the fight on Saturday - no one seemed concerned.

http://www.supersport.com/boxing/international/news/120225/British_brawler_back_in_Germany

kryogen · 28-02-2012 1:21am

Can't believe there is any argument here, if it went to court the evidence shows Haye striking first, thats it, end of story, you are allowed to go toward someone. The video doesn't show Chisora threatening Haye when face to face, the video can not be used to exonerate David. The previous incidents with the Klitschko's would have no bearing on it.

They are both muppets, but to suggest anything other then Haye being (from a legal standpoint) the one who initiated the conflict is foolish.

The law is clear on this. You can confront someone verbally, no issue, once you raise your hands you are getting into assault territory, to do it with a bottle in your hand, is even more ridiculous as you run the risk of battery added to it or worse.

Chisora legally did nothing to warrant getting punched. It was an attack from Haye, for him to prove he felt like he was in danger would be difficult from the video evidence. It is inconclusive at best. Chisora does not hit him. He does not make a motion to hit him, he goes down with the mic in his hand, this is not the actions of a guy going to hit someone, it is the actions of someone who wants to get some publicity.

He is well in his rights to stand in front of Haye and speak to him, Haye is not well within his rights to hit him, unless he can prove that his life/person was in immediate danger.

Ash.J.Williams · 28-02-2012 2:02am

Two muppets is right, at the very least they should be banned from fighting eachother, just to save us from the sky "grudge match" bullsh1t that would inevitably follow...Cringefest. Seriously .... the future is bleak for heavyweights, pure showbiz....

cowzerp · 28-02-2012 10:41am

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

the future is bleak for heavyweights, pure showbiz....

Probably the 1st time in years anyone has called the Heavyweight division showbiz!

In reality this is 2 lads who are British level Heavyweights and used their mouths to get publicity-has little bearing on the Heavyweight division unless Haye gets a shot at Vitali-I for 1 would not be pushed to see it at all, would rather see Vitali v Povetkin, Dimitrenko, Helenius, Boytsov or else Areola or Adamek in that order of availability if there was lads not available

Spazdarn · 28-02-2012 1:14pm

kryogen wrote: »

Can't believe there is any argument here, if it went to court the evidence shows Haye striking first, thats it, end of story, you are allowed to go toward someone. The video doesn't show Chisora threatening Haye when face to face, the video can not be used to exonerate David. The previous incidents with the Klitschko's would have no bearing on it.

They are both muppets, but to suggest anything other then Haye being (from a legal standpoint) the one who initiated the conflict is foolish.

The law is clear on this. You can confront someone verbally, no issue, once you raise your hands you are getting into assault territory, to do it with a bottle in your hand, is even more ridiculous as you run the risk of battery added to it or worse.

Chisora legally did nothing to warrant getting punched. It was an attack from Haye, for him to prove he felt like he was in danger would be difficult from the video evidence. It is inconclusive at best. Chisora does not hit him. He does not make a motion to hit him, he goes down with the mic in his hand, this is not the actions of a guy going to hit someone, it is the actions of someone who wants to get some publicity.

He is well in his rights to stand in front of Haye and speak to him, Haye is not well within his rights to hit him, unless he can prove that his life/person was in immediate danger.

http://www.boxingscene.com/uploads/49755/haye-chisora-brawl%20(4).jpg

Assault is defined by (in UK) "an assault is committed where the defendant intentionally or recklessly causes the victim to apprehend immediate unlawful personal violence."

Chisora putting his fist to his neck is more than enough to assume immediate violence. I don't believe that it's an indicative of violence but in court it could definitely be used as a solid defence.

Self defence: "The use of reasonable force to protect oneself or members of the family from bodily harm from the attack of an aggressor, if the defender has reason to believe he/she/they is/are in danger. "

Considering all the elements of the weekend, Chisora's character, antics with Wlad, history, being threatened, Chisora taking off his jacket to "talk to him", bringing his trainer along with him.... all of which would be mentioned in court, it would not be difficult to paint a picture where Haye was in fear of danger.

Haye would get done for battery more so than assault if he did get done for something. I doubt he would though.

I don't see how anyone could think this cut and dry, because it's not.

kryogen · 28-02-2012 1:48pm

Why did you bother giving the UK definition though? I was under the impression it happened outside the UK

RiseToTheTop · 28-02-2012 1:56pm

How come Tyson never got a sentence for biting off a piece off Holyfield's ear so?

I know it was during the fight, unlike Haye-Chisora, but that was outrageous and well outside the realms of boxing. The same when he tried to break Botha's arm.

kryogen · 28-02-2012 2:22pm

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

How come Tyson never got a sentence for biting off a piece off Holyfield's ear so?

I know it was during the fight, unlike Haye-Chisora, but that was outrageous and well outside the realms of boxing. The same when he tried to break Botha's arm.

You would have to work that out for yourself, probably something along the same lines as why there will be no "sentence" for Haye or Chisora here.

walshb · 28-02-2012 3:11pm

kryogen wrote: »

Can't believe there is any argument here, if it went to court the evidence shows Haye striking first, thats it, end of story, you are allowed to go toward someone. The video doesn't show Chisora threatening Haye when face to face, the video can not be used to exonerate David. The previous incidents with the Klitschko's would have no bearing on it.

They are both muppets, but to suggest anything other then Haye being (from a legal standpoint) the one who initiated the conflict is foolish.

The law is clear on this. You can confront someone verbally, no issue, once you raise your hands you are getting into assault territory, to do it with a bottle in your hand, is even more ridiculous as you run the risk of battery added to it or worse.

Chisora legally did nothing to warrant getting punched. It was an attack from Haye, for him to prove he felt like he was in danger would be difficult from the video evidence. It is inconclusive at best. Chisora does not hit him. He does not make a motion to hit him, he goes down with the mic in his hand, this is not the actions of a guy going to hit someone, it is the actions of someone who wants to get some publicity.

He is well in his rights to stand in front of Haye and speak to him, Haye is not well within his rights to hit him, unless he can prove that his life/person was in immediate danger.

I'm glad you have such faith in the law and believe it to be so black and white. Didn't Chisora threaten to walk down and hit Haye two slaps? No? Are you seriously saying Haye would have no chance at all to get a self defence claim approved by a jury based on the whole event?

If someone makes a physical threat aginst you in a verbal manner and then aprroaches you directly after making this verbal threat, is it not at all reasonable for you to claim that the person was approaching you to carry out this threat? That not at all a possibility in this "black and white" law we have?

kryogen · 28-02-2012 4:46pm

Faith in the law?

I have very little faith in the law actually.

I'm sorry, I really have no interest in prolonged debate on this, its completely irrelevant. Nothing is going to happen to either of them from a legal point of view so whats the point?

You can take things up any way you like, but I don't have to give credence to your interpretations.

HAYE CHISORA BRAWL

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