Another Ryanair Issue

gerrymadden1 · 10-12-2011 12:25am #1

My wife & her sister had to travel to Gran Canaria at short notice as their brother was taken seriously ill.

They booked a Ryanair flight last minute from Shannon to Palma, not cheap but that's not the issue.

They both packed one piece of hand luggage ensuring to stay within the Ryanair guidelines. No problem on the outward journey.

A few days later, on the return flight, this time from Palma to Dublin, they were charged €40 each because their hand luggage did not fit into a measuring frame. This was despite the fact that both pieces of luggage were actually lighter than on the outbound journey as the didn't bother to bring back their toiletries etc. They were well within the Ryanair weight limits for hand luggage.

A number of other passengers had a similar experience. And worse still, they were bullied by the Ryanair staff who acted as if they were on some kind of bonus to penalise passengers.

In simple terms, another Ryanair rip off.

Guy:Incognito · 10-12-2011 12:42am

Was the bag within the size allowed?

highlydebased · 10-12-2011 12:46am

A bag could be empty but still be too big to carry onboard. The measurements are displayed on the boarding pass....

They are always very lenient at Irish airports about it.

patwicklow · 10-12-2011 12:50am

I just would not fly with them ye man who owns it is just a money hungry
greedy twat.

bandit197 · 10-12-2011 1:00am

The size of the baggage allowed onboard is well published. Its not a scam.

srfc19 · 10-12-2011 1:17am

patwicklow wrote: »

I just would not fly with them ye man who owns it is just a money hungry
greedy twat.

He doesn't own them. He's the CEO. And if it's his money hungriness that has led to such cheap flights all around Europe then that's brilliant.

Ryanair is a no frills airline. Cheap and cheerful, but if you choose to fly with them you should know to stay within their rules.

longhalloween · 10-12-2011 1:24am

Not a scam, but a well know major annoyance. They upped the charge recently too.

I think everyone has their hearts in their mouths when measuring the bags and I've seen people dump stuff on the ground to make the bag fit.

You really do get what you pay for with Ryanair, which is what makes them so brilliant, and also so annoying.

PseudoFamous · 10-12-2011 1:34am

patwicklow wrote: »

I just would not fly with them ye man who owns it is just a money hungry
greedy twat.

He runs a business. I would suggest that given any opportunity, any business would happily take all of your money. That is the entire idea of a business.

They are perfectly allowed to make rules for people who travel with them. If you don't like the rules, do as you did, and feck right off.

ejmaztec · 10-12-2011 1:09pm

Didn't Ryanair recently start paying commission to the bag-checkers (Servisair staff etc), to make sure the dimensions weren't being exceeded? Previously these staff didn't seem too bothered unless the bag was huge.

This cabin baggage situation really pisses me off. I bought a Targus laptop bag for just short of €100, and while it might be just about the right size, you can put a laptop in it, but precious little else before it gets dangerously close to the meagre weight limits imposed by Ryanair, and other airlines.

galwayjohn89 · 12-12-2011 5:56pm

How is this a scam. Same as alot of airlines. Ive had this problem with both aer lingus and united and I just paid.

shellyboo · 19-12-2011 8:48pm

They got away with having bags that were too big on the outbound journey then? You should be thanking them for saving your wife & sister €80 in that case.

There is no point chancing your arm with bags that don't fit measurement requirements with Ryanair... they're lax in Ireland, but hell everywhere else.

saa · 19-12-2011 8:55pm

I don't feel entitled to cheap flights at all nevermind last minute, but thats not the issue the problem here is you expected them to turn a blind eye for your mistaketwice,

To ensure cheap flights they must do this, yes it is a pain in the arsé but ye's can't have good service and discretion with a low cost airline, those are the corners they cut.

Its not a scam as anyone can check the restrictions beforehand, reminds me of a lady in front of me at security who was giving out to the security guy for not using the plastic bag provided, yeah restrictions are annoying but why would you be treated differently. I'm just confused because you got fined once instead of twice, lucky.

benmad · 19-12-2011 9:17pm

Aer Lingus were looking for €220 for changing dates from May to June.:eek:

john_cappa · 20-12-2011 5:08pm

gerrymadden1 wrote: »

A number of other passengers had a similar experience. And worse still, they were bullied by the Ryanair staff who acted as if they were on some kind of bonus to penalise passengers.

They are! I think spanish staff work on commission so are strict with the guide lines in comparison to the workers at the irish end.

homerjay2005 · 22-12-2011 4:06pm

longhalloween wrote: »

Not a scam, but a well know major annoyance. They upped the charge recently too.

I think everyone has their hearts in their mouths when measuring the bags and I've seen people dump stuff on the ground to make the bag fit.

You really do get what you pay for with Ryanair, which is what makes them so brilliant, and also so annoying.

you will know next time to keep the bag allowance to what is specified, clearly.

did they not think of putting ithe bag nto the blue holder in before if was checked, to see what they could take out?

its not a scam, its called taking money off idiots.

keithclancy · 23-12-2011 1:25pm

If you dont mind looking like a pleb.

https://www.rufusroo.com/shop/

UglyBolloxFace · 26-12-2011 6:41pm

gerrymadden1 wrote: »

My wife & her sister had to travel to Gran Canaria at short notice as their brother was taken seriously ill.

They booked a Ryanair flight last minute from Shannon to Palma, not cheap but that's not the issue.

They both packed one piece of hand luggage ensuring to stay within the Ryanair guidelines. No problem on the outward journey.

A few days later, on the return flight, this time from Palma to Dublin, they were charged €40 each because their hand luggage did not fit into a measuring frame. This was despite the fact that both pieces of luggage were actually lighter than on the outbound journey as the didn't bother to bring back their toiletries etc. They were well within the Ryanair weight limits for hand luggage.

A number of other passengers had a similar experience. And worse still, they were bullied by the Ryanair staff who acted as if they were on some kind of bonus to penalise passengers.

In simple terms, another Ryanair rip off.

This is not a 'scam' - it's completely your own fault. The terms and conditions are there for a reason - read them.

If you have any decency you would (a) apologise for the defamation you've caused to the Airline and (b) ask a mod to alter the title to remove the word 'scam'.

I would suggest the following title: "I had to pay extra on Ryanair flight because I wasn't aware of the very, very well-known terms and conditions".

CricketDude · 10-03-2012 4:59pm

I'm sure they are on commission now.
I've seen them do this the last few months more and more.
And they always seem to pick on OAPs on their own first. Less likely to get an argument from them.

They accosted a woman sitting beside me at the check-in/boarding gate a few weeks ago. She told them her bag was within the limits, yet the box would not go over the bag. She refused to pay extra because her bags were within the limits, no matter what their box said. They got very snotty with her and were going to refuse her carriage.

A woman a few seats away took out a measuring tape, asked the guy what the limits were and he told her. She measured the first womans bag with the tape and it was a couple of centimeters in all directions smaller than their max dimensions.

She then offered to measure the ryanair measuring box for them to see if it was off. They refused and left on to the next victim. The woman got on the flight anyway.

Im carrying a rollup tape with me in future, because im certain their measuring devices are too small.

lala88 · 10-03-2012 8:20pm

patwicklow wrote: »

I just would not fly with them ye man who owns it is just a money hungry
greedy twat.

I always laugh when i see comments like this on hear. ''All they worry about is money'' ''They just think about profit'' What do people think, there just going to give them stuff for nothing or at a loss?

At the end of the day there are only one type of people that are miney hungery and greedy and it ant the businesses....

lala88 · 10-03-2012 8:22pm

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

This is not a 'scam' - it's completely your own fault. The terms and conditions are there for a reason - read them.

If you have any decency you would (a) apologise for the defamation you've caused to the Airline and (b) ask a mod to alter the title to remove the word 'scam'.

I would suggest the following title: "I had to pay extra on Ryanair flight because I wasn't aware of the very, very well-known terms and conditions".

You'll be waiting a wile for any of that to happen. If you notice they haven't posted since they started the thread, why ever would that be??

tiernanobrien · 15-03-2012 8:15pm

I'm 100% a ryanair fan. If your luggage doesn't fit the required dimensions you should pay. If its too heavy you should pay.

I kind of see it as being like speeding fines... you drive to fast, sometimes you get caught and you pay the fine - at the end of the day you know you shouldn't be speeding.

mossy2 · 19-03-2012 12:00am

homerjay2005 wrote: »

you will know next time to keep the bag allowance to what is specified, clearly.

did they not think of putting ithe bag nto the blue holder in before if was checked, to see what they could take out?

its not a scam, its called taking money off idiots.

Idiots? So these people are idiots to have fallen foul of one of Ryanair's little "revenue streams". Would it not have been more accurate to have ended your post: "its called taking money off the unwary"?

hunglikeaflee · 19-03-2012 5:33pm

mossy2 wrote: »

Idiots? So these people are idiots to have fallen foul of one of Ryanair's little "revenue streams". Would it not have been more accurate to have ended your post: "its called taking money off the unwary"?

They didn’t fall foul of any revenue stream. They tried to break a rule and got caught and now complain about it. What is your problem?

Other airlines should take note of the way Ryanair do things and things could be better for the rest of us.

I flew from Manchester this weekend with Ryanair and from the time the first passengers got on board, to the time they closed the door was about 18 minutes.

I went out with another air line and because they were letting people on with all size of bags and more than one bag by the time the last 25% of people where getting on, they had no where to put their bags. They had to be taken off them and put in the hold which also delays the people on the other end. Because of this it took roughly 45 minuets to board and we were late taking off.

So if you try break the rules be prepared to be caught and pay the price.

syklops · 19-03-2012 5:37pm

patwicklow wrote: »

I just would not fly with them ye man who owns it is just a money hungry
greedy twat.

God forbid a businessman might be in business to make money.

uck51js9zml2yt · 19-03-2012 11:01pm

When I fly, its anyone except RA.
My last flight with them was when we were on honeymoon to the canaries. I had the flight and hotel booked and then they decided to cancel all flights for the summer because the local airport wouldn't capitulate to MOL's demands

We fly with a baby to europe a few times a year and choose AL who always give us the full row to make life easier.

it so nice using a service where the staff know what good customer service is.

MaxFlower · 19-03-2012 11:17pm

bandit197 wrote: »

The size of the baggage allowed onboard is well published. Its not a scam.

Yes it possibly is. There was a piece on the BBC about 2 years ago (Watchdog??) where they showed that the sizer was smaller at the gate than it was at check-in. Was easy jet rather than Ryanair also, iirc.

syklops · 20-03-2012 8:26am

Kieran Deafening Mudslide wrote: »

When I fly, its anyone except RA.
My last flight with them was when we were on honeymoon to the canaries. I had the flight and hotel booked and then they decided to cancel all flights for the summer because the local airport wouldn't capitulate to MOL's demands

We fly with a baby to europe a few times a year and choose AL who always give us the full row to make life easier.

it so nice using a service where the staff know what good customer service is.

You used ryanair for your honeymoon? Did you stay at the Holiday Inn as well?

uck51js9zml2yt · 20-03-2012 10:48am

syklops wrote: »

Kieran Deafening Mudslide wrote: »

When I fly, its anyone except RA.
My last flight with them was when we were on honeymoon to the canaries. I had the flight and hotel booked and then they decided to cancel all flights for the summer because the local airport wouldn't capitulate to MOL's demands

We fly with a baby to europe a few times a year and choose AL who always give us the full row to make life easier.

it so nice using a service where the staff know what good customer service is.

You used ryanair for your honeymoon? Did you stay at the Holiday Inn as well?

we had no choice. AL didn't fly were we were going.
we went from a zero star service to a five star one.

keithclancy · 20-03-2012 11:44am

Kieran Deafening Mudslide wrote: »

When I fly, its anyone except RA.
My last flight with them was when we were on honeymoon to the canaries. I had the flight and hotel booked and then they decided to cancel all flights for the summer because the local airport wouldn't capitulate to MOL's demands

We fly with a baby to europe a few times a year and choose AL who always give us the full row to make life easier.

it so nice using a service where the staff know what good customer service is.

Thats a risk you take with any Airline when you book accomodation seperately.
Options are to take out travel insurance or book through a IATA Bonded travel agent.

I have seen ryanair make the same provisions for families also.
Recently on a flight back to Ireland they had reserved a row for an overweight woman and her epileptic child.

You can overcome the seating problem by paying for the priority boarding.

monkeypants · 20-03-2012 12:29pm

I find that rarely do they draw attention to the dimensions of the bag or the weight on the outward flight...they always sting you on the return though.

CricketDude · 20-03-2012 12:30pm

MaxFlower wrote: »

Yes it possibly is. There was a piece on the BBC about 2 years ago (Watchdog??) where they showed that the sizer was smaller at the gate than it was at check-in. Was easy jet rather than Ryanair also, iirc.

Bring a tape measure with you and you'll find they wont let you measure the sizer.

syklops · 20-03-2012 12:31pm

monkeypants wrote: »

I find that rarely do they draw attention to the dimensions of the bag or the weight on the outward flight...they always sting you on the return though.

How does the staff on the ground know whether you are taking an outward or return flight?

hunglikeaflee · 20-03-2012 1:13pm

MaxFlower wrote: »

Yes it possibly is. There was a piece on the BBC about 2 years ago (Watchdog??) where they showed that the sizer was smaller at the gate than it was at check-in. Was easy jet rather than Ryanair also, iirc.

So if it was Easy Jet what has it got to do with this thread. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

hunglikeaflee · 20-03-2012 1:17pm

monkeypants wrote: »

I find that rarely do they draw attention to the dimensions of the bag or the weight on the outward flight...they always sting you on the return though.

Why cant people get it into their head. It is not a sting, rip off or anything else. They have regulations and if you try break them you can expect to pay to consequences.

bigjohn66 · 20-03-2012 1:49pm

CricketDude wrote: »

Bring a tape measure with you and you'll find they wont let you measure the sizer.

Where do you get your information from? People talk some crap on here.

Last night coming back from the UK I say a guy argue with the staff that his bag should be allowed on.

The staff had gone along all the people in the queue and asked him and others to put the bag in the basket to check the size. It came no where close to fitting so he pulls out a printout from the Ryanair website with the dimensions on it and a tape measure. He told them they were wrong and started to measure it.

The basket was as the correct size so then he still argued that he should be allowed on as he had brought it from Ireland and it was allowed. They told him it had to go in the hold and he refused. They gave him 2 options. Check in the bag or not fly as there was no way the bag would fit even if it was empty.

He didn’t fly. I was at the top of the queue but as we were boarding I think they called the police.

The staff had gone along all the people in the queue and asked him and others to put the bag in the basket to check the size. It came no where close to fitting so he pulls out a printout from the Ryanair website with the dimensions on it and a tape measure. He told them they were wrong and started to measure it.

The basket was as the correct size so then he still argued that he should be allowed on as he had brought it from Ireland and it was allowed. They told him it had to go in the hold and he refused. They gave him 2 options. Check in the bag or not fly as there was no way the bag would fit even if it was empty.

He didn’t fly. I was at the top of the queue but as we were boarding I think they called the police. If they did it was a good call.

syklops · 20-03-2012 1:52pm

You can say that again!

CricketDude · 20-03-2012 2:45pm

bigjohn66 wrote: »

Where do you get your information from? People talk some crap on here.

Last night coming back from the UK I say a guy argue with the staff that his bag should be allowed on.

The staff had gone along all the people in the queue and asked him and others to put the bag in the basket to check the size. It came no where close to fitting so he pulls out a printout from the Ryanair website with the dimensions on it and a tape measure. He told them they were wrong and started to measure it.

The basket was as the correct size so then he still argued that he should be allowed on as he had brought it from Ireland and it was allowed. They told him it had to go in the hold and he refused. They gave him 2 options. Check in the bag or not fly as there was no way the bag would fit even if it was empty.

He didn’t fly. I was at the top of the queue but as we were boarding I think they called the police.

The staff had gone along all the people in the queue and asked him and others to put the bag in the basket to check the size. It came no where close to fitting so he pulls out a printout from the Ryanair website with the dimensions on it and a tape measure. He told them they were wrong and started to measure it.

The basket was as the correct size so then he still argued that he should be allowed on as he had brought it from Ireland and it was allowed. They told him it had to go in the hold and he refused. They gave him 2 options. Check in the bag or not fly as there was no way the bag would fit even if it was empty.

He didn’t fly. I was at the top of the queue but as we were boarding I think they called the police. If they did it was a good call.

Admit it now. You just made that one up. They never go along ALL of the queue either, ever. They pick several people only. And its a box or the static metal sizer at the top of the check-in that they use. They dont use a basket.

irelandrover · 20-03-2012 2:50pm

CricketDude wrote: »

Admit it now. You just made that one up. They never go along ALL of the queue either, ever. They pick several people only. And its a box or the static metal sizer at the top of the check-in that they use. They dont use a basket.

How do they pick out random people if they don't walk along all the Q?

ozmo · 20-03-2012 3:04pm

gerrymadden1 wrote: »

they were charged €40 each because their hand luggage did not fit into a measuring frame. ..
In simple terms, another Ryanair rip off.

If anything RyanAir should be more vigilant and enforce this More - I hate getting on a full flight and finding nowhere to store my luggage because the overhead bins are full of unfairly obviously oversized bags. There is only so much room available to each person for their carry on luggage.

bigjohn66 · 20-03-2012 4:07pm

CricketDude wrote: »

Admit it now. You just made that one up.

First I don’t like your tone, second I don’t appreciate you calling ma a liar.

CricketDude wrote: »

They never go along ALL of the queue either, ever.

Yes they do. They walk along ALL the queue and look, almost always, once they start. What do you think they do stop half way and expect the rest of the people to have the correct bags?

CricketDude wrote: »

They pick several people only.

Exactly as I said. Read my post..

CricketDude wrote: »

And its a box or the static metal sizer at the top of the check-in that they use. They dont use a basket.

They had no box. One person walked along looking at all the bags (and as I said if you read my post) asked him and others to put the bag in the basket.

CricketDude wrote: »

the static metal sizer at the top of the check-in that they use. They dont use a basket.

Do an internet search for Ryanair Basket and you will see we are talking about the same thing. It is regularly called the basket.

keithclancy · 20-03-2012 7:54pm

CricketDude wrote: »

Admit it now. You just made that one up. They never go along ALL of the queue either, ever. They pick several people only. And its a box or the static metal sizer at the top of the check-in that they use. They dont use a basket.

In fairness in Eindhoven Airport, everytime i've been there they've checked EVERYONE for baggage weight.

Rarely for size though.

secretambition · 20-03-2012 8:02pm

Though Ryanair are normally thought of as the cheapest, I have noticed that Aer Lingus can be cheaper for last minute travelling. I'm talking really last minute here. I once had to book a flight for travel the same day. Aer Lingus were about £200. Ryanair were £250. Also, BMI can be very cheap for Dublin-London - always worth a look.

I've been stung for Ryanair charges so many times now, that I tend to factor £40/€40 into the price in my head and on that basis, most other airlines beat it.

lala88 · 20-03-2012 10:46pm

keithclancy wrote: »

Thats a risk you take with any Airline when you book accomodation seperately.
Options are to take out travel insurance or book through a IATA Bonded travel agent.

I have seen ryanair make the same provisions for families also.
Recently on a flight back to Ireland they had reserved a row for an overweight woman and her epileptic child.

You can overcome the seating problem by paying for the priority boarding.

Ya but that would be far too easy and plus people paying money for something :rolleyes:

keithclancy · 21-03-2012 8:48am

secretambition wrote: »

Though Ryanair are normally thought of as the cheapest, I have noticed that Aer Lingus can be cheaper for last minute travelling. I'm talking really last minute here. I once had to book a flight for travel the same day. Aer Lingus were about £200. Ryanair were £250. Also, BMI can be very cheap for Dublin-London - always worth a look.

I've been stung for Ryanair charges so many times now, that I tend to factor £40/€40 into the price in my head and on that basis, most other airlines beat it.

I never thought they were the cheapest, they are 'usually' the cheapest. But i'll take the entire journey into account, not just the flight.

E.G. Why travel to an Airport in the middle of nowhere (Brussels Charleroi) to save 100 euros that you'l spend on trains, buses and inconvenience anyway

syklops · 21-03-2012 11:21am

Where does this "Airport in the middle of nowhere" thing come from???

Dublin, Cork, Stanstead, Luton, Paris CDG, Bratislava, Madrid, Lisbon, to name a couple off the top of my head. Does it stem from bitterness because they are not in every single major city or is it just another unfounded claim by those with a hatred for them?

keithclancy · 21-03-2012 11:39am

syklops wrote: »

Where does this "Airport in the middle of nowhere" thing come from???

Dublin, Cork, Stanstead, Luton, Paris CDG, Bratislava, Madrid, Lisbon, to name a couple off the top of my head. Does it stem from bitterness because they are not in every single major city or is it just another unfounded claim by those with a hatred for them?

Brussels (Charleroi) 1 hour driving
Duesseldorf (Weeze) 1hour 15 minutes driving (takes around 2 1/2 hours by Public Transport
Frankfurt (Hahn)
Oslo (Torp)
Stockholm (Stavska)
Milan (Bergamo)
Barcelona (Girona) around 2 hrs by bus

I don't have a hatred for Ryanair, I'll use any Airline for a short haul flight. But sometimes I see people 'saving' money for example flying to Weeze and then having to pay 16 euros each way per person just to get to Dusseldorf when the Aerlingus Flight directly to Dusseldorf would have been cheaper and have saved them 2 1/2 hours each way.

Or flying to Eindhoven to get 'cheap' flights when they really want to go to Amsterdam, paying another 40 euros for the train+bus when the Air Lingus flight would only set them back and extra 40 euros per person anyway.

And this is with knowing the options, the amount of times i've met Irish/English people standing outside the Airport asking where the bus to X City is unreal

When I travel back to Ireland I don't give a sh*t where I fly to, the country is so small and car rental is so cheap you can fly into Dublin or Cork and its pretty much the same difference in my case anyway.

CiaranC · 21-03-2012 11:40am

Kieran Deafening Mudslide wrote: »

When I fly, its anyone except RA.
My last flight with them was when we were on honeymoon to the canaries. I had the flight and hotel booked and then they decided to cancel all flights for the summer because the local airport wouldn't capitulate to MOL's demands

We fly with a baby to europe a few times a year and choose AL who always give us the full row to make life easier.

it so nice using a service where the staff know what good customer service is.

Ryanair is not for people going on honeymoons or carting around babies, it is for frequent travellers who want simple, quick, cheap, no frills, no hassle travel with no luggage.

Ryanairs problem is the clap-on-landing brigade who book flights with them and expect their once a year flight experience to be like flying Concorde in the 1970s

APM · 21-03-2012 11:54am

keithclancy wrote: »

Brussels (Charleroi) 1 hour driving
Duesseldorf (Weeze) 1hour 15 minutes driving (takes around 2 1/2 hours by Public Transport
Frankfurt (Hahn)
Oslo (Torp)
Stockholm (Stavska)
Milan (Bergamo)
Barcelona (Girona) around 2 hrs by bus

For the last 2 years they've been flying to Barcelona airport, same as all the other major airlines

keithclancy · 21-03-2012 11:58am

APM wrote: »

For the last 2 years they've been flying to Barcelona airport, same as all the other major airlines

Not from here, even then the closest Airport they fly from is Duesseldorf (Weeze)

Handy if your in Dublin I guess.

Laneyh · 21-03-2012 12:01pm

monkeypants wrote: »

I find that rarely do they draw attention to the dimensions of the bag or the weight on the outward flight...they always sting you on the return though.

Yeah they tend to only do this on one leg of the flight meaning you're more likely to fall foul of it I suppose. At Christmas they really go all out and check on both legs

The hand luggage size test is not unique to Ryanair but they're definitely more vigorous in their enforcement of it.
What I find annoying is that the little basket thing is not a reflection of an overhead locker. Why not have an overhead locker bin ? Then you can know with absolute certainty that the bag will fit.

In terms of being allowed time to re-pack your bag so that it will fit as a few people have suggested.. they've obviously never witnessed
the harassing and harranging the ground staff subject people to when they're trying to put the bag in the basket. Its particularly horrible to see in the case of an older person or someone who's obviously not used to flying
I don't think they deserve the levels of hostility shown by Ryanair employees and indirectly some people on here.

keithclancy · 21-03-2012 12:05pm

Laneyh wrote: »

Why not have an overhead locker bin ? Then you can know with absolute certainty that the bag will fit.

The overhead locker bin is for 3 people (Seats) 3.

3 bags within the Ryanair dimensions easily fit into the Overhead locker including Jackets and so on.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/holidays/article-1692166/How-to-avoid-baggage-charge-rip-offs.html

The weight thing is partially fuel saving and also part of reducing the boarding time.

Have seen similar checks on Flybe, Wizzair and Easyjet, although easyjet was dimensions only since they have no weight restriction.

Another Ryanair Issue

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