The elephant in the room thread.

carchaeologist · 24-09-2015 9:10pm

The above Granada is quite famous around various forums for all the wrong reasons.
If you buy that car what are you buying, a Granada with effectively no paperwork?

savagethegoat · 25-09-2015 4:37pm

might be stolen even!

Insure it under that number and the car you bought isn't insured. Time for a crackdown

Gmin · 09-10-2015 4:09pm

Down at the Gerard Murphy memorial run last weekend and I could not get over the amount of "elephants" of various marques that were on display.

The Big Red Fella · 09-10-2015 10:20pm

Gmin wrote: »

Down at the Gerard Murphy memorial run last weekend and I could not get over the amount of "elephants" of various marques that were on display.

So what ya see tell us more lad?

savagethegoat · 10-10-2015 8:23am

my guess is a lot of 1100L model and 1300autos.

carchaeologist · 10-10-2015 11:08am

Gmin wrote: »

Down at the Gerard Murphy memorial run last weekend and I could not get over the amount of "elephants" of various marques that were on display.

It's only getting worse each year now. Some cars are passing through different hands now too.
I know id be very pissed off if I had bought a car that isn't what it's meant to be.

Gmin · 10-10-2015 11:16am

Gmin wrote: »

Down at the Gerard Murphy memorial run last weekend and I could not get over the amount of "elephants" of various marques that were on display.

The most obvious ones where Mini's.I reckon someone must have had a biscuit tin full of old Kilkenny reg Mini's as the amount of IP ones on early to mid 90's Minis was hard to ignore although there was one genuine early 70's IP one.I know of one woman who bought an ID swapped Mini in the South East in good faith and when she went to have it tested it was found to be a plate swap.She never got the car back on the road again and had to break it for parts.She bought the Mini in Limerick.Spotted a Morris Minor with the same treatment as well.

Seweryn · 14-10-2015 10:36am

This one looks kind of new-ish to me...

http://cars.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/land-rover-range-rover-td5-vintage/10636330?offset=1

mgbgt1978 · 14-10-2015 6:46pm

.....as does this one

http://cars.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/mini-cooper/10106780?offset=10

Markcheese · 14-10-2015 7:26pm

Seweryn wrote: »

This one looks kind of new-ish to me...

http://cars.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/land-rover-range-rover-td5-vintage/10636330?offset=1

Shure it's not even built yet -!! Still could argued that it's legal because of the newish body on an old chassis ( I know it's a new chassis but still it's a loophole )
But how can you rebody a mini ? And if someone buys one and there's a crackdown who's gonna get the blame .

Seweryn · 14-10-2015 7:51pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Shure it's not even built yet -!! Still could argued that it's legal because of the newish body on an old chassis ( I know it's a new chassis but still it's a loophole ) .

If that is the case, then fair enough. I understand that the chassis has its own VIN number, the body is replaceable, so if a newer body fits on an older platform, I see no problem there.
I believe the Mini has unitary body construction, so probably a problem there...

Sam Russell · 14-10-2015 8:09pm

Seweryn wrote: »

If that is the case, then fair enough. I understand that the chassis has its own VIN number, the body is replaceable, so if a newer body fits on an older platform, I see no problem there.
I believe the Mini has unitary body construction, so probably a problem there...

If the Mini was rebodied in the UK under UK rules, that would be OK. The UK require that a certain percentage of the original car goes into the rebodied car - engine, gearbox, transmission, subframes etc. It is done on a point scheme - not sure how the Irish authorities would take it.

Strange to think of a Mini as an elephant!

mgbgt1978 · 14-10-2015 8:11pm

Seriously Sam, how many 1966 mini parts can you see in that Donedeal Ad ?

Sam Russell · 14-10-2015 8:12pm

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Seriously Sam, how many 1966 mini parts can you see in that Donedeal Ad ?

I think the trunk is a bit of a give away!

mgbgt1978 · 14-10-2015 8:23pm

Under the Uk scheme you had to use a new shell for monocoques (i.e. a Heritage manufactured shell in the case of Mini's).
If using a new shell you would at least have to retain the original engine.
Otherwise you would be stuck with a 'Q' Plate....which would be practically impossible to register here as a 1966 car.

TBH I don't have a problem with Mini's using a Donor shell....if they retain most of the earlier mechanical bits. But to just stick 1960's plates on a 90's Car.....at least make an effort :rolleyes:.

Sam Russell · 14-10-2015 8:35pm

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Under the Uk scheme you had to use a new shell for monocoques (i.e. a Heritage manufactured shell in the case of Mini's).
If using a new shell you would at least have to retain the original engine.
Otherwise you would be stuck with a 'Q' Plate....which would be practically impossible to register here as a 1966 car.

TBH I don't have a problem with Mini's using a Donor shell....if they retain most of the earlier mechanical bits. But to just stick 1960's plates on a 90's Car.....at least make an effort :rolleyes:.

That Mini has hidden hinges and wind-up windows. Didn't the 1966 mini have hinge down number plates? As you say, if that is a 1990 Mini so it should have a VIN plate somewhere.

It would need a lot more than just the engine and gear box.

2. Vehicles that have been
rebuilt using a mix of new
and/or used parts
To keep the original registration number:
Cars and light vans must use:
the original unaltered chassis or unaltered monocoque
bodyshell (that is, the body and chassis as one unit);
or
a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same
specification as the original. A receipt from the dealer
or manufacturer is required.
AND the vehicle must have two other major components
– as listed below – from the original vehicle.
Suspension (front and back)
Axles (both)
Transmission
Steering assembly
Engine
If a second-hand chassis or monocoque bodyshell is
used, the vehicle must have Individual Vehicle Approval
(IVA) or Single Vehicle Approval (SVA) (see section 11). A
‘Q’ registration number will then be issued (see section 7).

Blue850 · 14-10-2015 9:12pm

Harder to spot, but this is a Nelly too, 1910s Longford reg on a 1920s Renault

Austrian coachbuilder plate with chassis number

Link to Bonham's auction of Renault in 2006

"The car appears to have the remains of the original Austrian registration number on the rear plate: ‘W2223’ and comes with the original Austrian logbook in German."

Silvera · 14-10-2015 10:01pm

^^^ Excellent detective work!
Was that at the Clonmel show?

That must be the oldest 'elephant' we've had in this thread?!:eek:

Blue850 · 14-10-2015 10:26pm

Silvera wrote: »

^^^ Excellent detective work!
Was that at the Clonmel show?

That must be the oldest 'elephant' we've had in this thread?!:eek:

Yes, at Clonmel, was delighted to see the old Irish reg RHD Renault and then googled Strakosch Renault:rolleyes:

carchaeologist · 15-10-2015 11:51pm

Quality spot there! As I have said many times it's gone beyond ridiculous in the last few years. That's the oldest pup Iv seen though!

carchaeologist · 15-10-2015 11:57pm

The current lack of a decent historical registration series is not helping this situation either.
Neither ZV or year plates are fit for purpose, in my eyes anyway.
What will happen here is the NCT regs and taxation with get a big squeeze one of the days.

savagethegoat · 16-10-2015 3:03pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

If the Mini was rebodied in the UK under UK rules, that would be OK. The UK require that a certain percentage of the original car goes into the rebodied car - engine, gearbox, transmission, subframes etc. It is done on a point scheme - not sure how the Irish authorities would take it.

Strange to think of a Mini as an elephant!

It's a big "if" and quite a cute disclaimer isn't it!

Sam Russell · 16-10-2015 5:17pm

savagethegoat wrote: »

It's a big "if" and quite a cute disclaimer isn't it!

If that was rebodied legitimately then it would have to be the same vintage and that one has hidden door hinges. It is probably metric as well, and has a VIN number somewhere. It would also need the original A series engine.

savagethegoat · 16-10-2015 9:17pm

Yes, as I said, it's a big "if"

CianDon · 19-10-2015 10:48am

Another wee shly one but obviously who ever is at it hasn't fully grasped the plate swapping craic. Looks a mundane enough old Mini, but doesnt show up on the NCT system, and the reg comes back as a 1.6 diesel Ford Fiesta

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/1989-mini/10672968?offset=8

H.E. Pennypacker · 20-10-2015 9:02pm

CianDon wrote: »

Another wee shly one but obviously who ever is at it hasn't fully grasped the plate swapping craic. Looks a mundane enough old Mini, but doesnt show up on the NCT system, and the reg comes back as a 1.6 diesel Ford Fiesta
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/1989-mini/10672968?offset=8

Cartell.ie shows it as a Mini City E. The NCTS site shows it as the same make/model but looks like its due an inspection.

What site did you use that showed it as a Fiesta?

https://www.cartell.ie/ssl/servlet/beginStarLookup?registration=89ky4309

http://www.mywheels.ie/free-car-check-report/?VRN=89ky4309

savagethegoat · 20-10-2015 9:49pm

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

Cartell.ie shows it as a Mini City E. The NCTS site shows it as the same make/model but looks like its due an inspection.

What site did you use that showed it as a Fiesta?

https://www.cartell.ie/ssl/servlet/beginStarLookup?registration=89ky4309

http://www.mywheels.ie/free-car-check-report/?VRN=89ky4309

KY reg...I swear that was cork registered yesterday

Kenny Logins · 20-10-2015 10:18pm

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

Cartell.ie shows it as a Mini City E. The NCTS site shows it as the same make/model but looks like its due an inspection.

What site did you use that showed it as a Fiesta?

https://www.cartell.ie/ssl/servlet/beginStarLookup?registration=89ky4309

http://www.mywheels.ie/free-car-check-report/?VRN=89ky4309

Must be a pink elephant.

CianDon · 21-10-2015 12:38am

savagethegoat wrote: »

KY reg...I swear that was cork registered yesterday

Absolutely, was up as 89-C with different pics when I posted it. Hmmmmmm

Kenny Logins · 21-10-2015 10:02am

CianDon wrote: »

Absolutely, was up as 89-C with different pics when I posted it. Hmmmmmm

Could have been a genuine mistake.

The elephant in the room thread.

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