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Would an Ulster win at Thomond prove Kidney wrong?

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    #32
    shuffol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭shuffol


    2 Defeats on the spin for Munster at TP, wonder whens the last time that happened. To suggest the ref favoured Ulster is really clutching at straws. Ferris, Henry and Best terrorised Munster at the breakdown all game. I assume a lot of the criticism is coming from people who were at the game and didnt have a proper view of what was happening.


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    #33
    Chavways
    Registered Users Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭Chavways


    Ferris should be Irish captain in a few years


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    #34
    shuffol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭shuffol


    Chavways wrote: »
    Ferris should be Irish captain in a few years

    In a few years he'll be retired.


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    #35
    Chavways
    Registered Users Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭Chavways


    shuffol wrote: »
    In a few years he'll be retired.

    Well I mean in the next 2 years.He should be able to get to 29 or 30 before his knees completely give out on him.


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    #36
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Junkyard Dog wrote: »
    If by fair you mean he had a shocker that affected both teams then yes he was fair! Ulster deserved it they played fantastic Munster were terrible good luck in the semis lads I hope ye go all the way
    If anything Ulster have more to complain about Poite than Munster do. Munster were penalised for indiscipline, something POC alluded to in his post-match interview. Henry's YC and the strange reverse scrum decision at the end were two that spring to mind that Ulster should have cause to complain about.

    Overall though, I thought he reffed the game competently and good humouredly, certainly a far better performance than Owens had at the last fixture in TP.


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    #37
    ambid
    Registered Users Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭ambid


    Chavways wrote: »
    Ferris should be Irish captain in a few years

    He probably will be injured too much to be considered. He has missed an awful lot of rugby due to injury and having an injury prone captain would disrupt preparations.

    Ferris doesn't even appear to be in line to captain Ulster. Ireland have plenty of better options for the captaincy to succeed O'Driscoll in O'Connell, Best, Heaslip, and O'Mahony.


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    #38
    rilz
    Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭rilz


    Well played both sides on a very entertaining game. Thought Ulster played superb in the opening 35mins.

    Munster was good in second half but all credit to a brilliant Ulster defense line.


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    #39
    ormond lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭ormond lad


    ambid wrote: »
    He probably will be injured too much to be considered. He has missed an awful lot of rugby due to injury and having an injury prone captain would disrupt preparations.

    Ferris doesn't even appear to be in line to captain Ulster. Ireland have plenty of better options for the captaincy to succeed O'Driscoll in O'Connell, Best, Heaslip, and O'Mahony.
    I hope you are messing, long way to go before something like that can even be considered.
    POM may have captained Munster on a few occasions but their isnt a hope of him being in line for what you are suggesting


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    #40
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    ambid wrote: »
    He probably will be injured too much to be considered. He has missed an awful lot of rugby due to injury and having an injury prone captain would disrupt preparations.

    Ferris doesn't even appear to be in line to captain Ulster. Ireland have plenty of better options for the captaincy to succeed O'Driscoll in O'Connell, Best, Heaslip, and O'Mahony.

    Why does it have to be a forward? IMO Sexton would be an excellent captain.


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    #41
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,745 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Ferris an inspirational figure for what he does on the field of play, I'd leave it at that personally, I just think there are others in Best, Kearney and maybe Sexton who are more suited to the role.


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    #42
    mr_edge_to_you
    Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭mr_edge_to_you


    Did anyone bother to read the thread title?

    I'm not sure it proves Kidney anymore wrong than he already is. I think it certainly changes things. Munster are now the 3rd ranking team.

    I think it raises a more serious question about Ulster and David Humphries....how can they not back Brian mcLoughlin? Ulster have been building towards this for two years. He has done a phenomenol job up there. Ulster are also good to watch.


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    #43
    funky penguin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,352 ✭✭✭funky penguin


    shuffol wrote: »
    2 Defeats on the spin for Munster at TP, wonder whens the last time that happened.

    Think I remember the commentators mention it was about 5 years ago.


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    #44
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    almighty1 wrote: »
    Why does it have to be a forward? IMO Sexton would be an excellent captain.
    Out half should never be captain. Apart from the fact that they already have a strong decision making role, there's the added responsibility of dealing with the ref and making decisions on penalties etc. Too easy to make the wrong decision in the heat of the moment.


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    #45
    bamboozle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    per the original question is raises several facets of players/combinations at provincial level which DK chose to ignore.

    Reddan/Sexton 9/10 axis.
    Touhy, Henry, (and probably also Cave and Gilroy) deserve to be in a squad of 30 heading to NZ.

    DOC is past it.
    Heaslip and SOB in a leinster jersey have far greater impacts on games.

    for the tour to NZ Touhy, Henry, Cave, Gilroy, Marshall, Zebo, Fitz and Mclaughlin have to go. Possibly also Sherry as 3rd choice hooker.

    from the quarter finals over the weekend i though Mclaughlin was one of the best backrowers on show. His intelligence is great to watch in the lines he runs and the pace he comes onto the ball.


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    #46
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    mr_edge_to_you wrote: »
    Did anyone bother to read the thread title?

    I'm not sure it proves Kidney anymore wrong than he already is. I think it certainly changes things. Munster are now the 3rd ranking team.

    I think it raises a more serious question about Ulster and David Humphries....how can they not back Brian mcLoughlin? Ulster have been building towards this for two years. He has done a phenomenol job up there. Ulster are also good to watch.
    Yeah seems harsh to be giving him the bullet now alright.

    Going back to the thread title, I think we saw a couple of things confirmed yesterday:
    Tuohy deserves a shot. There is no room for debate on this.
    Gilroy is far closer to being the finished article than Zebo.
    Chris Henry is the closest thing we have to a proper 7.
    Murray is far too ponderous; on one of the few occasions they got quick ball, Munster scored a try. Murray has the skills, just needs to use them.
    O'Gara is finished; Munster had enough possession to win three matches but you have to have an out half who can create things and he offered nothing beyond pinging it into the corner.

    So I don' know if it proved Kidney wrong, but it is certainly food for thought for the summer and November games.


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    #47
    ironingbored
    Registered Users Posts: 2,073 ✭✭✭ironingbored


    ambid wrote: »
    Ferris doesn't even appear to be in line to captain Ulster. Ireland have plenty of better options for the captaincy to succeed O'Driscoll in O'Connell, Best, Heaslip, and O'Mahony.

    After Henry's display yesterday POM has a lot of work to do to be included in the Irish 22 for NZ.

    Tuohy's display yesterday made an absolute mockery of DK's decision to start DOC during the 6N.


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    #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Tuohy's display yesterday was atypical of the level he's been playing at for over 18 months now. There was a reason some of us were clamouring to have him involved in the 6N 2011.

    He's the only lock in Ireland I trust with ball in hand. He's a machine. I think that the ignorance shown to certain players will surely have to stop now.

    As an aside, that's two games in a row that Paddy Wallace has been unbreachable for Ulster, a facet of his game that's regularly questioned and cited as a reason not to include him in Irish teams. He's also held his hand up and said he deserves the 12 spot again. D'Arcy's form in Green has dipped massively, and perhaps it might be time for us to stop kicking the ball as a national side, and have Sexton and Wallace as our creative outlets?


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    #49
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,916 ✭✭✭OldRio


    As for the original OP.

    No doubt the IRFU with the help of their friends in the media are already planning the spin to put on this weekends results. Plenty of mud to throw in the water.
    Sad times for the Irish national team and even sadder for the Irish media.


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    #50
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Yesterday's result was bad for Irish rugby. Dan Tuohy showing that he's able to step up on the big occasion? Chris Henry dominating top class opponents? Craig Gilroy performing in the biggest game of his career? Paddy Wallace looking solid in defence and sharp with the ball in hand? Darren Cave putting in a massively intelligent shift in defence?

    Good God. This is awful for Irish rugby, Hugh.


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    #51
    ambid
    Registered Users Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭ambid


    ironingbored wrote: »
    After Henry's display yesterday POM has a lot of work to do to be included in the Irish 22 for NZ...
    ormond lad wrote: »
    I hope you are messing, long way to go before something like that can even be considered.
    POM may have captained Munster on a few occasions but their isnt a hope of him being in line for what you are suggesting

    I was thinking POM as a captaincy option only in the very long term, not this year or next.


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    #52
    Hype710
    Registered Users Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭Hype710


    ambid wrote: »
    I was thinking POM as a captaincy option only in the very long term, not this year or next.

    Wouldn't overly surprise me if he captained Ireland on their summer tour next year when most of the first XV will be away with the Lions. Not that I'd pick him, but Deccie may well.


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    #53
    BoardsMember
    Registered Users Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    DK being apparently proved wrong might result in DK digging his heels in further with respect to ignoring the bleeding obvious and persisting with inferior options, so regarding the thread title - I'm not sure we want this!


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    #54
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    totallegend wrote: »
    Yeah seems harsh to be giving him the bullet now alright.

    Going back to the thread title, I think we saw a couple of things confirmed yesterday:
    Tuohy deserves a shot. There is no room for debate on this.
    Gilroy is far closer to being the finished article than Zebo.
    Chris Henry is the closest thing we have to a proper 7.
    Murray is far too ponderous; on one of the few occasions they got quick ball, Munster scored a try. Murray has the skills, just needs to use them.
    O'Gara is finished; Munster had enough possession to win three matches but you have to have an out half who can create things and he offered nothing beyond pinging it into the corner.

    So I don' know if it proved Kidney wrong, but it is certainly food for thought for the summer and November games.

    Can't disagree with any of that, I'd also lump in Cave he's not the flashiest of centers but he deserves to be ahead of D'Arcy, Earls and McFadden.
    We all know Tuohy's merits how McCarthy gets ahead of him never mind DOC is behind me!


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    #55
    yosser hughes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,879 ✭✭✭yosser hughes


    This is a quote from Rory Best in yesterdays Sunday Times:
    Rory Best says: wrote:
    Those guys are playing some of the best rugby of their careers and haven't got the recognition they deserve.But we can sit and complain about Munster players getting the nod or ask why they win those tight calls.
    This was a quote in reference to players like Chris Henry and Darren Cave.
    This suggests there is a dissatisfaction at some of the selections for Ireland and it's interesting that he refers to Munster players getting the nod.
    From a senior player in the Ireland squad and stand-in captain this speaks volumes.
    Sorry I can't put up a link as it's behind a pay wall. Anyway I just thought it was an interesting quote.
    In my opinion you could add Gilroy and Marshall in there too.Murray in not an international scrum half and was fast tracked for reasons that are beyond me.


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    #56
    dougieruggie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭dougieruggie


    yosser hughes wrote: »
    This is a quote from Rory Best in yesterdays Sunday Times:


    This was a quote in reference to players like Chris Henry and Darren Cave.
    This suggests there is a dissatisfaction at some of the selections for Ireland and it's interesting that he refers to Munster players getting the nod.
    From a senior player in the Ireland squad and stand-in captain this speaks volumes.
    Sorry I can't put up a link as it's behind a pay wall. Anyway I just thought it was an interesting quote.
    In my opinion you could add Gilroy and Marshall in there too.Murray in not an international scrum half and was fast tracked for reasons that are beyond me.

    Very telling.


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    #57
    Brendan97
    Registered Users Posts: 503 ✭✭✭Brendan97


    yosser hughes wrote: »
    This is a quote from Rory Best in yesterdays Sunday Times:


    This was a quote in reference to players like Chris Henry and Darren Cave.
    This suggests there is a dissatisfaction at some of the selections for Ireland and it's interesting that he refers to Munster players getting the nod.
    From a senior player in the Ireland squad and stand-in captain this speaks volumes.
    Sorry I can't put up a link as it's behind a pay wall. Anyway I just thought it was an interesting quote.
    In my opinion you could add Gilroy and Marshall in there too.Murray in not an international scrum half and was fast tracked for reasons that are beyond me.
    He shouldnt have said it imo
    Although you can understand their frustration because there are a few ulster players not picked despite being clearly better than their munster counterparts and yesterdays match only proved what many already knew


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    #58
    CiaranMT
    Registered Users Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭CiaranMT


    I think he's in the perfect position to say something like that.

    He himself is a nailed on starter, a leader and someone with a lot of authority.

    It's not something DK can ignore, as could be the case if it had been a fringe player saying it.


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    #59
    yosser hughes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,879 ✭✭✭yosser hughes


    Best interview attached.Apologies about the quality:(


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    #60
    shuffol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭shuffol


    Holy f*ck I cant believe he said that. Surely there'll be reprecussions, he's just openly accused the national coach of bias towards his home province. Certainly shows that the players dont trust Kidneys judgement.


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    #61
    CiaranMT
    Registered Users Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭CiaranMT


    shuffol wrote: »
    Holy f*ck I cant believe he said that. Surely there'll be reprecussions, he's just openly accused the national coach of bias towards his home province. Certainly shows that the players dont trust Kidneys judgement.

    They're not all robots either, they're entitled to their own opinions.


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