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Volcanic ash discussion here please!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭therecklessone


    mel.b wrote: »
    Does anyone have a link to a site with predictions for the path of the volcanic ash? I've got a course next week in the UK and am flying SNN-LGW on Monday am. Just wondering if I should be thinking about booking the ferry as a back up.

    Cheers,
    mel.b

    Keep an eye on:

    https://twitter.com/eurocontrol

    Volcanic Ash Advisories

    Predicted Ash concentration charts

    https://www.cfmu.eurocontrol.int/PUBPORTAL/gateway/spec/index.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭ewj1978


    Hi guys...was due to fly out from Cork at 8.55 tomorrow morning...Flight was cancelled an hour ago by Aer lingus..
    Yet The IAA just announced (20.30) that the airport will now open at 0400... Is there any chance this aircraft will be reinstated for the original departure time?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,559 ✭✭✭andy_g


    ewj1978 wrote: »
    Hi guys...was due to fly out from Cork at 8.55 tomorrow morning...Flight was cancelled an hour ago by Aer lingus..
    Yet The IAA just announced (20.30) that the airport will now open at 0400... Is there any chance this aircraft will be reinstated for the original departure time?

    its hard to say really as the iaa are only giving information out every few hours and basically the airports are deciding when to open if they can and the time is only estimates


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    If they have already cancelled the flight, it will stay cancelled.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭donkey balls


    from my experience working in ops all you can go by is the metars/sigmets local airport mgmt on when/if the airport re opens.
    to be honest it's a waiting game all my mates thought i used to be able to go home, but at the last minute you could get a call to say all systems go that meant crew calls to the hotel getting the FBO in place etc.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 205 ✭✭wittymoniker


    ewj1978 wrote: »
    Hi guys...was due to fly out from Cork at 8.55 tomorrow morning...Flight was cancelled an hour ago by Aer lingus..
    Yet The IAA just announced (20.30) that the airport will now open at 0400... Is there any chance this aircraft will be reinstated for the original departure time?


    I'd imagine this is down to there being no aircraft to operate the flight in the morning, ie, it's stuck somewhere besides Cork for the night.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,559 ✭✭✭andy_g


    here the current chart but mainly the atlantic affected.

    http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/data/VAG_1273253030.png


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    What I would like to know is, how is this cloud causing so much devestation? There is a little tiny bit of dust on my car, I cannot see anything. I can understand the complexities and how fragile a jet engine can be, but I cannot understand how this cloud is so powerful. Please excuse my ignorance.

    This infraction is currently being reversed to a warning.
    Andy


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,422 ✭✭✭The_Joker


    Pretty handy live tracking site here with the ash cloud displayed


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭Andrew33


    Just looking at radarvirtuel today and all the transatlantic stuff is coming/going in a north/south direction up over Scotland. Seem to be going tru the narrowest band of ash cloud. I wonder do they continue north and go over the pole or would they turn west after Faroe Isles?


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Some flights from the States overnight over Greenland,turned south east over Iceland, over the Faroes and then to Scotland.


    Heres a pic of the volcanic ash plume taken inflight earlier this morning:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tearbringer/4588573651/


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    the NATS are very northerly. See the map at the bottom here. http://www.blackswan.ch/nat/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭aircraft tech trng


    To understand the severity of volcanic ash I've taken the 1st few lines from an aircraft maintenance manual for the inspection of an aircraft after a flight through the ash:

    WARNING : DO NOT BREATHE VOLCANIC ASH. DO NOT GET VOLCANIC ASH IN YOUR EYES. PUT ON PROTECTIVE CLOTHES, EYE GOGGLES AND A RESPIRATOR MASK. MAKE SURE THAT THE RESPIRATOR MASK CAN REMOVE VOLCANIC ASH FROM THE AIR. VOLCANIC ASH CAN CAUSE EYE IRRITATION AND INJURY TO THE RESPIRATORY SYSTEM.
    .
    (1) Volcanic ash
    (a) Volcanic ash is hard, very abrasive and acid (pH between 2 and neutral). It can cause erosion/abrasion, etching or shot-peening on the surfaces and can remove the finishes/protection and thus cause damage/corrosion.
    (b) The ash particles can be of different sizes but the texture of volcanic ash is almost the same as talcum powder and can enter all orifices and go through many seals. Volcanic ash will stay:
    - on bare and lubricated surfaces.
    - in all corners.
    - in bottom places.
    It can cause unusual wear and contamination of many aircraft systems and filter elements.
    (c) The volcanic ash will melt when it goes through the combustion chamber of the engines.
    The melted ash has very high adhesive qualities and bonds to engine parts and thus decreases engine performance. It may obstruct the fuel injectors and can cause an engine shutdown.
    (2) Inspection requirements
    (a) Volcanic ash can cause severe damage/contamination on the structure / systems of the aircraft.
    It is not possible to estimate the quantity and the type of damage after volcanic ash contamination. Therefore, it is necessary to do a full inspection of the aircraft to know the damage and make a decision about the necessary repair/action.
    (b) All the necessary inspections are visual unless the text gives other instructions.
    Operators can refer to the Non-destructive Testing Manual (NTM) and use non-destructive procedures.
    (c) If you find damage to the aircraft structure, refer to the Structural Repair Manual (SRM). The SRM has the approved damage limits and repair procedures.
    (d) If you find damage to paint/protection, refer to the Structural Repair Manual (SRM). The SRM has the approved paint/protection repair procedures.
    (e) Examine the aircraft surfaces, structures, systems for contamination, erosion/abrasion, dents, etching, delamination or other damage.


  • Registered Users, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 6,515 Mod ✭✭✭✭sharkman


    Dublin Airport will close 1900L - 0900L on the 17th
    more info to follow after IAA conf call


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    News reports over the weekend suggested that the IAA are conducting test flights into the plume. Are they and if so what aircraft are they using?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    BrianD wrote: »
    News reports over the weekend suggested that the IAA are conducting test flights into the plume. Are they and if so what aircraft are they using?
    what is the latest of the ash


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    BrianD wrote: »
    News reports over the weekend suggested that the IAA are conducting test flights into the plume. Are they and if so what aircraft are they using?

    Lufthansa A340-600 DAIHE overflew the country on Sunday morning at a variety of flight levels between FL250 and FL120 and was specially instrumented for collection of data on the atmospheric conditions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    According to this report this Weekends Ash crises over the UK was a false alarm from the British met office.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1279221/The-ash-cloud-Inaccurate-Met-Office-forecast-causes-airport-chaos-50-000.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Oscar Bravo


    EI-CFY from Weston carried out the IAA's test flights yesterday.(Cessna 172).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭aircraft tech trng


    Here ;s what happens to an engine when it's flown through a volcanic ash cloud. This is a Cessna Citation Jet (CJ2) out of Germany a few weeks ago

    1.jpg

    2.jpg

    3.jpg

    4.jpg

    8.jpg


    7.jpg


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭Foggy43


    I'm afraid this is a hoax.

    http://www.hoax-slayer.com/cessna-citation-ash-damage.shtml

    Also this is confirmed a hoax in the Cessna Citation Forum. A technical issue with the engines diffuser caused the damage.....

    Engine Damage Not Caused by Volcanic Ash
    Dramatic photos circulating on the Internet purporting to show a Williams International FJ44-3A-24 installed on a Cessna Citation CJ2+ destroyed by exposure to volcanic ash from the recent eruption in Iceland are “complete fiction,” according to Brad Thress, Cessna vice president of product support. The incident occurred about a month before the April eruption, he said. “It’s viral,” Thress said. “We get hundreds of e-mails here…It’s interesting how things can take off on the Internet.” What caused the damage is a known issue with the engine’s diffuser, he said. Williams has already sent a letter to operators warning about the potential for the diffuser to fail. The failure mode is caused by a harmonic vibration that cracks the fuel manifold, and the engine company notified operators that signs of shifting or cracking of the diffuser include a shift in ITT, fuel odor in the cabin or difficulty removing the diffuser or start nozzle, according to Thress. Cessna is planning to release an alert service letter on this issue, and diffusers are being replaced during the next scheduled maintenance event. “It is a fleet issue,” he said, “not related to volcano activity.”


  • Registered Users Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Dacian


    My immediate thougths with that Citation pic was "Why didn't I read this elsewhere on the internet if it happened a couple of weeks ago" Also if ash caused this the fuselage seems pretty pistine for what look like an explosive event on the engine. I thought the ash clogged the engines rather than cause explosive damage?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭aircraft tech trng


    vulcanic_clouds_are_a_problem_408705.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 794 ✭✭✭electric69


    EI-CFY from Weston carried out the IAA's test flights yesterday.(Cessna 172).


    piston engines arent effected so sending a 172 up would be for nothing more than data collection and not for engine testing


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭aircraft tech trng


    Pilots 'can navigate safely through volcanic ash'
    By David Learmount

    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/06/04/342814/pilots-can-navigate-safely-through-volcanic-ash.html


    The aircraft-mounted passive infrared volcanic ash detector system called Avoid that is being tested by EasyJet and Airbus was developed some years ago by the Climate and Atmosphere Department of the Norwegian Institute for Air Research, but no-one took up the idea until now.
    Dr Fred Prata of the institute says that being able to "see" the ash is the key to being able to navigate through it safely, because it is not distributed uniformly throughout the block of airspace downwind of the volcano that is producing it.
    Prata explains: "I think it needs to be stressed that volcanic ash never fills the skies and there are always routes around the hazard. This is what happens in most parts of the world now, especially, Alaska, Japan and Indonesia, where airlines make quite large, costly diversions to avoid ash clouds forecast by models and observed from satellites. With Avoid fitted these diversions would be shorter, and more direct routes could be found."


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,939 ✭✭✭pclancy


    Thanks to everyone for contributing so much to this thread.

    Time now to un-stick and let it drift in the boards waves...


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,320 ✭✭✭✭kowloon




  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Lapin


    Here we go again. :(

    That graphic on www.flightradar24.com looks ominous.

    Hope its all forgotten about this time next week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,559 ✭✭✭andy_g


    Going to stick this again to be on the safe side.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 376 ✭✭IrishB.ie


    pclancy wrote: »
    Time now to un-stick and let it drift in the boards waves...

    Backwash.......:)


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