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Pedestrian Injured - Junction of Dame St/Sth Great George's Street

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    #122
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Running reds is far from a cyclist problem in Ireland. From my experience living in several countries around the world, Ireland is far and away the worst with all modes of transport running reds.


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    #123
    12Phase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭12Phase


    I agree to a point I don't think you ever see cars actually running reds that are fully red, something I have seen in Paris a few times.

    What you do see a lot of in Ireland is sailing through long after the light has gone amber. Then getting stuck on pedestrian crossings or mid junction.

    A % of cyclists however are just ignoring traffic signals like they're not intended to apply to them at all. That needs to stop. It's putting themselves and other road users in danger.


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    #124
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    12Phase wrote: »
    I agree to a point I don't think you ever see cars actually running reds that are fully red, something I have seen in Paris a few times.
    .

    Did you really just say that? :eek:


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    #125
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    12Phase wrote: »
    I agree to a point I don't think you ever see cars actually running reds that are fully red, something I have seen in Paris a few times.

    Virtually every intersection I go through, every single day.

    If I'm turning right at an intersection, I will always have to wait for the cars going through the fully red light, before I can go.


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    #126
    cython
    Registered Users Posts: 4,758 ✭✭✭cython


    12Phase wrote: »
    I agree to a point I don't think you ever see cars actually running reds that are fully red, something I have seen in Paris a few times.

    What you do see a lot of in Ireland is sailing through long after the light has gone amber. Then getting stuck on pedestrian crossings or mid junction.

    A % of cyclists however are just ignoring traffic signals like they're not intended to apply to them at all. That needs to stop. It's putting themselves and other road users in danger.

    That you are claiming the above leads me to seriously question your observation as a road user! Please don't make me dig out the video of cars breaking the red light in Phibsboro, as it's utterly tired out on Boards.ie at this point.


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    #127
    TheExile1878
    Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭TheExile1878


    12Phase wrote: »
    I was walking along minding my own business with headphones on a pavement in a pedestrian zone in Dublin and I stepped to the left and heard screeching brakes and a guy started yelling at me and calling me a dozy ####.

    So I asked him why he was cycling on a pavement and he told me he was allowed to cycle on pedestrian streets and that I should watch where I'm bloody walking and called me a dozy #### again (he wasn't the brightest and didn't seem to have many phrases available to him.)

    Anyway, a couple of other pedestrians chipped in and gave him a lot of verbal abuse and he just cycled off.

    I cycle myself and I'm sick of this kind of moronic behaviour. I actually don't even mind people cycling really slowly and conscientiously in pedestrian areas. It's when someome arrogantly ploughs though an area like that that it's just totally stupid and dangerous.

    I'm also really fed up with Dublin cyclists breaking lights. I cycle in Cork and Brussels and Amsterdam regularly and seriously Dublin you're not making yourselves look too law abiding or intelligent. Also is not for lack of cycle boxes ahead of lights or lack of infrastructure. People are simply ignoring traffic lights because they think they're not real vehicles.

    Enforcement is needed because a significant minority % seem to be determined to wreck cycling for everyone else.

    Exactly!!! I get this on a daily basis mainly in the Italian Quarter, really tight spaces and all pedestrianised.

    Even if cyclists were allowed - which they are not - it's dangerous for all. You should not be worried about being hit when on a pavement.


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    #128
    micar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭micar


    12Phase wrote: »
    I agree to a point I don't think you ever see cars actually running reds that are fully red, something I have seen in Paris a few times.

    Seriously, I was driving on Wednesday morning 6.30 from shanowen ave on Collins ave. The light turned green as I approached the junction.

    A guy in a burgundy ford Van went through the red light on Collins ave..Didn't even slow down...flew through the junction.

    Had I been 2 seconds ahead, a would driven into the side of me.

    As I turned right onto Collins ave, the lights began to turn from green to amber. That's gives you an indication the amount of the light had been red for the van driver.


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    #129
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    cython wrote: »
    That you are claiming the above leads me to seriously question your observation as a road user! Please don't make me dig out the video of cars breaking the red light in Phibsboro, as it's utterly tired out on Boards.ie at this point.
    You don't just have to be in phibsboro to see this ;)


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    #130
    cython
    Registered Users Posts: 4,758 ✭✭✭cython


    Madilynn Fresh Locksmith wrote: »
    You don't just have to be in phibsboro to see this ;)

    Very true, it just happens that there is a very well known video which demonstrated the extent of the piss taken by some motorists (and some cyclists too, albeit a lot fewer) in running reds that was recorded (as far as I recall) in Phibsboro.


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    #131
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    micar wrote: »
    Seriously, I was driving on Wednesday morning 6.30 from shanowen ave on Collins ave. The light turned green as I approached the junction.

    A guy in a burgundy ford Van went through the red light on Collins ave..Didn't even slow down...flew through the junction.

    Had I been 2 seconds ahead, a would driven into the side of me.

    As I turned right onto Collins ave, the lights began to turn from green to amber. That's gives you an indication the amount of the light had been red for the van driver.

    I was turning right at the yellow house in Rathfarnham to go down having come from the Rathfarnham Castle side. The light was going amber as I came to it so I stopped and it went red. The car behind me then crossed into the opposite lane of traffic, cut around me and turned right, at least 3 - 4 seconds after it had gone red.

    Its dreadful in Dublin at the moment.


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    #132
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,743 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    can someone point me to anyone on this thread who defended the actions of the cyclist who ran the red at a pedestrian junction?

    i keep hearing about the cyclist lobby and their unreasonable stance, etc.; what gets cyclists backs up is the demonisation of the harm cyclists cause without any figures to back up the claims, and bananas solutions the likes of which have been posed in this thread - such as confiscation of the vehicle for exceeding a speed limit (if they introduced this for cars and enforced it, it would genuinely take the majority of cars off the road).

    i haven't heard anything further about the condition of the pedestrian, but it's worth noting that if (god forbid) the poor woman did die, and if the cylist was at fault, it would be the first example of a pedestrian dying as a result of the actions of a cyclist in ireland since 2002. approx. 4000 people have been killed in RTAs in the meantime, so it's reasonable to argue that there are lower hanging fruit.

    of *course* there are idiot cyclists out there. no-one is arguing that. go on to the cycling forum and you'll see plenty of complaints about cyclists changing lanes without looking or cycling without lights. it's a bloody rare cyclist who would have sympathy for another cyclist caught running a pedestrian light at speed, especially one at the likes of the junction in question.

    but cyclists do tend to get tired of being told that their safety is down to their behaviour, and then they go out and look at cycling infrastructure which actually makes things more dangerous, not less, for them.


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    #133
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,957 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    can we forget about stats.. speed limits etc for a sec... and cars..

    Can we just all agree those of us who cycle, use cars, both or none of the above that cyclists should not be breaking the lights in the city and hoping / expecting that flesh and blood human beings should just get out of the way (ably or through luck) when in fact they have right of way.... its not difficult for ****s sake..

    If you are a cyclist pissed off about the behavior of motorists or even pedestrians when YOU have the right of way by all means start a thread about it....

    The behavior of a large number of cyclists in the city as regards to red lights and large numbers of crossing pedestrians in the city center is an issue... a serious one.

    we need...

    a publicity campaign aimed and cyclists to influence the mindset backed by the RSA through the media. It should not ever be motorist vs cyclist but there have been media campaigns regarding how motorists should behave in relation to cyclists which is only right and proper but I think there needs to be an improvement in the way a large number of cyclists respect the rules of the road and the safety of others who share the city... Should not also have to take for someone to get hurt or killed before this happens..

    Step back.. deep breath... and think... we are all getting places.. to and from work, college, fun trip, pub, whatever.. to meet your significant other etc.... we all want to sleep in our own bed every night.. not in a hospital, a morgue or a cell of a Garda station with the guilt and worry hanging over your head.... lets get it sorted by at least those of us / you on bikes acknowledging the issue and not having the 'never happen to me' attitude... behavior breeds behavior on the roads and anywhere...


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    #134
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,743 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Strumms wrote: »
    can we forget about stats.. speed limits etc for a sec... and cars..

    The behavior of a large number of cyclists in the city as regards to red lights and large numbers of crossing pedestrians in the city center is an issue... a serious one.
    so you claim it's a serious issue, and then want to forget about statistics?

    it seems acknowledged by most that the junction in question is one with major issues. so by far the most obvious action required is simply enforcement. even having a visible presence of a single guard at that junction would possibly have an effect, might cause a few people to cool their jets when running for amber or red lights.


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    #135
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    12Phase wrote: »
    I agree to a point I don't think you ever see cars actually running reds that are fully red,
    You are clearly an extremely unobservant road user.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92964191&postcount=597
    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i haven't heard anything further about the condition of the pedestrian, but it's worth noting that if (god forbid) the poor woman did die, and if the cylist was at fault, it would be the first example of a pedestrian dying as a result of the actions of a cyclist in ireland since 2002. approx. 4000 people have been killed in RTAs in the meantime, so it's reasonable to argue that there are lower hanging fruit.
    Can I just repeat this for emphasis?
    if the cyclist was at fault, it would be the first example of a pedestrian dying as a result of the actions of a cyclist in Ireland since 2002. approx. 4000 people have been killed in collisions (not accidents) in the meantime,
    Strumms wrote: »
    The behavior of a large number of cyclists in the city as regards to red lights and large numbers of crossing pedestrians in the city center is an issue... a serious one.
    A serious one? Exactly how serious a problem is it? Say, relative to the 160+ killed by motorists on the road each year, with a couple of times that maimed by motorists each year, how serious is the problem of cyclists breaking red lights? And relative to the problem of thousands of people injured by motorists each year, how serious is the problem of cyclists breaking red lights? And relative to the high percentage of motorists who break speed limits and red lights, and drive using their phones, or doing their make-up, how serious is the problem of cyclists breaking red lights? And relative to the action taken in enlightened cities like Paris who have legalised breaking red lights by cyclists, how serious is this problem?

    Or are these all the stats that you want to ignore?


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    #136
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,957 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    why drag it into a debate of what motorists do ? we are talking about cyclists. The problem is serious enough that at that junction and others in the city I have had several close calls and had to take evasive action from cyclists ploughing through throngs of pedestrians who are crossing with right of way... you dont have an issue with this ? Despite the obvious danger.. please dont respond with what cars do.. its a separate issue.. and doesn't pertain to this debate...


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    #137
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Strumms wrote: »
    why drag it into a debate of what motorists do ? we are talking about cyclists. The problem is serious enough that at that junction and others in the city I have had several close calls and had to take evasive action from cyclists ploughing through throngs of pedestrians who are crossing with right of way... you dont have an issue with this ? Despite the obvious danger.. please dont respond with what cars do.. its a separate issue.. and doesn't pertain to this debate...

    More than one person has pointed out that they are sick of cyclists running reds. The reality is that it's a problem that needs to be addressed across the board, so does apply to all motorists.


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    #138
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,743 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Strumms wrote: »
    why drag it into a debate of what motorists do ?
    partly because several people have argued that cyclists should face stiffer fines than what motorists face.

    no-one is arguing that cyclists should be allowed run pedestrian lights at busy junctions. the problem is an issue of enforcement.


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    #139
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Strumms wrote: »
    why drag it into a debate of what motorists do ? we are talking about cyclists. The problem is serious enough that at that junction and others in the city I have had several close calls and had to take evasive action from cyclists ploughing through throngs of pedestrians who are crossing with right of way... you dont have an issue with this ? Despite the obvious danger.. please dont respond with what cars do.. its a separate issue.. and doesn't pertain to this debate...

    Oh I see - the criteria we're using for defining a serious issue now is 'several close calls'. Grand so, I've had several close calls with;

    - drivers overtaking a cyclist at speed within arms reach, way short of the 1.5m guidance from RSA and Dept Transport
    - drivers changing lane and turning left without checking for cyclists on the inside
    - drivers with 1 or 2 brake lights not functioning
    - drivers chatting on a phone held to their ear or mouth, or actively keying something on a phone keyboard while driving.

    So can I now expect urgent action on all of these close calls?

    We need to prioritise. There is only so much time that the Min Transport is going to get at Cabinet for his new initiatives, and so much time in the Dáil for new legislation, and so much time from the Gardai for enforcement.

    But you specifically want to focus this time and energy on the one mode of transport that hasn't killed anyone since 2002, while ignoring the thousands killed and thousands more maimed?


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    #140
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    Strumms wrote: »
    why drag it into a debate of what motorists do ? we are talking about cyclists. The problem is serious enough that at that junction and others in the city I have had several close calls and had to take evasive action from cyclists ploughing through throngs of pedestrians who are crossing with right of way... you dont have an issue with this ? Despite the obvious danger.. please dont respond with what cars do.. its a separate issue.. and doesn't pertain to this debate...

    I thought there was only one cyclist involved in this incident and not all. Why drag it into a debate of what cyclists do?


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    #141
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,957 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Grand then.. let's forget the debate as it's clearly down to whataboutery for some people... cars vs bikes etc... fine... I'm for road safety and yes I am more critical of motorists who I see breaking lights, talking on a mobile phone... my biggest pet hate on the road and I only rang ballymun Garda station last week with the reg and details of a car in front (hands free on my behalf) who bounced off a kerb twice going through Northwood, broke a red light forcing a family to take a step back and drove at speed all during the course of this... I'm not part of any anti cycling lobby, I have no clue why people when we try and talk about an issue with bikes turn the argument to.... cars are more dangerous and what about motorists.... YES but is that not for another thread or at the very least it shouldnt overshadow that there in the view of many people an issue with a reasonable percentage of cyclists in the city and especially at that junction in question... Do you not want everyone to be safe or just cyclists ?

    No fatality since 2002 ? Great.. but if a danger or risks exists and a concern among people and I am sure the poor lady mentioned in this thread might agree should it not be discussed rather then making it like the old motorist vs cyclist debate... Im not trying to crucify cyclists many are responsible but I'd still advocate some sort of resource into enforcing and regulating cyclists who put pedestrians, motorists and themselves in danger by breaking lights etc... it would not take much.

    All Im asking is those who cycle in the city take a little more heed of red lights and people crossing... not anti cycling... not pro motorist... anyway fire away I'll be going for a pint .. cheers...


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    #142
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    I suggest that anyone that thinks cyclists don't break reds should spend 10-15 mins at any junction with a pedestrian crossing during the peak hours.

    Green man = go.. DDC even put up wee lights for cyclists that are ignored.

    Or sit outside the 108 pub in Rathgar around 5-6pm and watch pedestrians trying to cross the road through the big groups of cyclists that think the pedestrian crossing is a cycle box (the ASL for cyclists is 15ft back).


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    #143
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,913 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Cyclists that come out of nowhere and break the red at speed scare the bejayzus out of me.

    A car that does the same is very visible and a bit slower. There is a difference.

    Neither is right though for sure.


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    #144
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Cyclists that come out of nowhere and break the red at speed scare the bejayzus out of me.

    A car that does the same is very visible and a bit slower. There is a difference.

    Neither is right though for sure.

    Sure, if the car is going slower??

    I know which one is going to do more damage, though.


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    #145
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,743 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    I suggest that anyone that thinks cyclists don't break reds
    Are you setting up a straw man argument here? No one has suggested that no cyclists break reds.


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    #146
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,743 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Cyclists that come out of nowhere and break the red at speed scare the bejayzus out of me.

    A car that does the same is very visible and a bit slower. There is a difference.
    https://www.easycalculation.com/physics/classical-physics/kinetic-energy.php

    A rough comparison shows that for a cyclist to be carrying as much energy as car doing 50km/h, the cyclist would need to reach about 200km/h.


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    #147
    TheExile1878
    Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭TheExile1878


    traprunner wrote: »
    Strumms wrote: »
    why drag it into a debate of what motorists do ? we are talking about cyclists. The problem is serious enough that at that junction and others in the city I have had several close calls and had to take evasive action from cyclists ploughing through throngs of pedestrians who are crossing with right of way... you dont have an issue with this ? Despite the obvious danger.. please dont respond with what cars do.. its a separate issue.. and doesn't pertain to this debate...

    I thought there was only one cyclist involved in this incident and not all. Why drag it into a debate of what cyclists do?

    Yes, only one cyclist has ever sped through a red light at that junction.

    Dear me the blindness of some!!


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    #148
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Some cant see cars doing the same constantly. Blindness seems to be selective.


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    #149
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Strumms wrote: »
    No fatality since 2002 ? Great.. but if a danger or risks exists and a concern among people and I am sure the poor lady mentioned in this thread might agree should it not be discussed rather then making it like the old motorist vs cyclist debate... Im not trying to crucify cyclists many are responsible but I'd still advocate some sort of resource into enforcing and regulating cyclists who put pedestrians, motorists and themselves in danger by breaking lights etc... it would not take much.
    Where you place this issue on a priority list of initiatives to be addressed by the RSA and Dept Transport? Top, middle, bottom?
    prinzeugen wrote: »
    I suggest that anyone that thinks cyclists don't break reds should spend 10-15 mins at any junction with a pedestrian crossing during the peak hours.
    I don't think anyone suggested that cyclists don't break red lights. What has been suggested is that the undeniable fact that no-one has been killed by a cyclist in Ireland since 2002, while 4000+ people have been killed by motorists puts the risk in context.
    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Cyclists that come out of nowhere and break the red at speed scare the bejayzus out of me.

    A car that does the same is very visible and a bit slower. There is a difference.
    How did you work out that cars are slower than bikes?


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    #150
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Be interesting to see how many cycling fines have been issued at that junction.


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    #151
    2RockMountain
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭2RockMountain


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Cyclists that come out of nowhere and break the red at speed scare the bejayzus out of me.
    The laws of physics would suggest that they don't 'come out of nowhere'. You might need to improve your observation.


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