Oireachtas TV

STB. · 17-01-2016 1:56pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Nothing to stop RTE putting OTV on Saorsat. It is their platform and is a commercial enterprise, and I would think there would be no extra cost for them, also OTV is a non commercial (no advertising) and no threat to RTE.

It could earn them goody points with the Dail if they did.

Satellite television is a misnomer.

The 98% coverage is referring to the network infrastructure put in place in the state.

One thing that has to be got straight. The obligation is on the Houses of the Oireachtas to provide the channel FTA.

They didn't do that by sticking the channel behind paywalls in UPC and Sky. Neither are Free to Air.

The fact that they ignored their obligations and put the cart before the horse shows how arrogant this particular set of politicians are.

They confused their own ideas about audience penetration with their own abilities to pay for subscription television. Mind you many of the cabinet will have received in excess of €500k in pay and expenses over their term in government and could well afford subscription television! They did get to see themselves on the TV I suppose.

The bollicking (as quoted by The Cush) that they gave to RTE before a Committee was cringeworthy and harped back to the days of Haughey.

Sam Russell · 17-01-2016 2:10pm

The point about subscription TV is valid for all the politicians and all of the media in general. I doubt there is a single employee of the Irish Times or RTE that does not have access to pay TV, either Virgin/NTL, eir or Sky.

It costs over €100m per year to run the Oireachtas, so paying for TV is small beer. Besides which, they can change the rules if they want a free ride. (Forecast for 2015 was €112m - this works out at an average of more than €450 k per TD and Senator).

If they insisted that TV3, TG4 and UTVi all went HD on Saorview, the cost would halve. Perhaps that might be a better stratergy for them as it requires no overt action from them.

STB. · 17-01-2016 2:18pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

The point about subscription TV is valid for all the politicians and all of the media in general. I doubt there is a single employee of the Irish Times or RTE that does not have access to pay TV, either Virgin/NTL, eir or Sky.

But that is not the way it works. Private agreements with subscription company are choices that individuals make.

For Oireachtas TV (and any other PSB), the obligations of being free to air come first, everything else is second. Platform neutrality can only be satisfied when the Free to Air obligations are already in place.

Johnboy1951 · 17-01-2016 3:03pm

STB. wrote: »

But that is not the way it works. Private agreements with subscription company are choices that individuals make.

For Oireachtas TV (and any other PSB), the obligations of being free to air come first, everything else is second. Platform neutrality can only be satisfied when the Free to Air obligations are already in place.

+1

expectationlost · 17-01-2016 3:24pm

Oireachtas secures cut-price Saorview deal $ http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/article1657108.ece

Elmo · 17-01-2016 5:48pm

expectationlost wrote: »

Oireachtas secures cut-price Saorview deal $ http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/article1657108.ece

Ridiculous they haven't got a clue.

expectationlost · 17-01-2016 7:10pm

Elmo wrote: »

Ridiculous they haven't got a clue.

who hasn't?

Elmo · 17-01-2016 7:24pm

expectationlost wrote: »

who hasn't?

All of them. The Oireachtas, RTÉ, Saorview, TV3, UTV Ireland. We have a set of stakeholders that don't really know what they are doing. Irish TV in terms of audience percentage is down at its lowest levels in the last 15 years. The Idea that OTV should be given free reign effects this.

I wrote to the Minister for Finance and Communications in 2013 asking that the provide some money from the licence fee to help OTV and IFB broadcast on Saorview and other platforms. The outright denied this saying that to do so would diminish money going to programming making.

In effect this reduction in OTV's bill is exactly the same type of subvention coming from the licence fee, something neither minister was interested in doing in 2013.

FRIENDO · 24-01-2016 12:34pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Nothing to stop RTE putting OTV on Saorsat. It is their platform and is a commercial enterprise, and I would think there would be no extra cost for them, also OTV is a non commercial (no advertising) and no threat to RTE.

It could earn them goody points with the Dail if they did.

Add your reply here.

Yes, I think you're right, I was talking with somebody in the know, and a good chance Oireachtas TV will be on Saorsat after the trial on saorview.

Pity they won't put the TV3's or UTV Ireland on the other test channels on Saorsat.

STB. · 24-01-2016 11:24pm

FRIENDO wrote: »

Yes, I think you're right, I was talking with somebody in the know, and a good chance Oireachtas TV will be on Saorsat after the trial on saorview.

Pity they won't put the TV3's or UTV Ireland on the other test channels on Saorsat.

Pity that TV3 and Tg4 wont upgrade their carriage to HD on the Saorview platform. They are after all providing this service to paywall companies.

If they wont pay for Saorview bit rates what makes you think they will pay for TP space on Saorsat.

There seems to be this reasoning that 2RN should just put them on each platform in general. Oireachtas boys the same. Nobody wants to pay though, strange that for people who are in the broadcasting industry but want the infrastructure mechanism to be free.

Elmo · 24-01-2016 11:31pm

STB. wrote: »

Pity that TV3 and Tg4 wont upgrade their carriage to HD on the Saorview platform. They are after all providing this service to paywall companies.

I am assuming that rates would not be much more than they are today.

If 2RN said to TG4, TV3 and UTV Ireland that they will now charge HD fees to each broadcaster for each of those 3 channels and that RTÉjr/RTÉONE+1, 3e, RTÉ News Now and OTV would be on SD charges, how much of an increase would that be for TG4, TV3 and UTV Ireland?

STB. · 24-01-2016 11:59pm

Elmo wrote: »

I am assuming that rates would not be much more than they are today.

If 2RN said to TG4, TV3 and UTV Ireland that they will now charge HD fees to each broadcaster for each of those 3 channels and that RTÉjr/RTÉONE+1, 3e, RTÉ News Now and OTV would be on SD charges, how much of an increase would that be for TG4, TV3 and UTV Ireland?

It would double for Saorview platform alone.

The Cush · 25-01-2016 1:45am

The Cush wrote: »

The current contract is due to expire at the end of the year. It's currently held by Pi Communications Limited who were awarded a 3 year contract in Dec 2010 to manage, operate and maintain the technical facilities for the televising of the Oireachtas, the value of the contract was €3.2 million plus VAT (copy of contract). The previous 5 year contract was held by Windmill Lane Ltd.

Tender - https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=88664&B=&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders
Tender for consultancy in relation to the above contract - https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=88581&B=&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

The Cush wrote: »

Full tender published 9th Oct, closes 9th Nov - https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=93396&B=&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders
http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:361434-2015:TEXT:EN:HTML&src=0

36 month contract with a 24 month renewal option, estimated cost €8m.

Contract awarded to incumbent PI Communications Limited in mid Nov for a bid of €4,238,154. There were 2 bidders, although the other bidder wasn't named speculation might suggest Windmill Lane.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/177006

Elmo · 25-01-2016 2:50am

The Cush wrote: »

Contract awarded to incumbent PI Communications Limited in mid Nov for a bid of €4,238,154. There were 2 bidders, although the other bidder wasn't named speculation might suggest Windmill Lane.

If you were planning a 24hour station or if you had the infrastructure why wouldn't you bid or this contract TV3/RTÉ?

FRIENDO · 25-01-2016 9:58am

STB. wrote: »

FRIENDO wrote: »

Yes, I think you're right, I was talking with somebody in the know, and a good chance Oireachtas TV will be on Saorsat after the trial on saorview.

Pity they won't put the TV3's or UTV Ireland on the other test channels on Saorsat.

Pity that TV3 and Tg4 wont upgrade their carriage to HD on the Saorview platform. They are after all providing this service to paywall companies.

If they wont pay for Saorview bit rates what makes you think they will pay

Add your reply here.

Saorview and Saorsat have been wrong from the beginning.
What should have happened is that if a channel paid for broadcast on Saorview it should also have been transmitted on Saorsat, basically both platforms should carry the same channels and services.

Secondly, if a channel such as TV3 or TG4 has been funded or aided by the tax payer, that channel should provide all their channels free to air to the public, including HD channels.

If a channel benefited from the tax payer and then does not supply its service fta including HD channels, more fool on us as tax payers and no more funding or aid should be given to these stations by the State.

But that would take a politicians with balls, which are very rare these days.

Sam Russell · 25-01-2016 10:14am

Elmo wrote: »

I am assuming that rates would not be much more than they are today.

If 2RN said to TG4, TV3 and UTV Ireland that they will now charge HD fees to each broadcaster for each of those 3 channels and that RTÉjr/RTÉONE+1, 3e, RTÉ News Now and OTV would be on SD charges, how much of an increase would that be for TG4, TV3 and UTV Ireland?

I have posted figures before.

2RN will get just under €12m for two muxes, regardless of the amount of bandwidth used. Unused bandwidth is just burnt off.

On my calculations, RTE could fit onto the one mux and should therefore pay €6m rather than their current €8m. The remaining mux could carry 3 HD channels and two (or three at a squeeze) SD channels on the second muxes. Figures would suggest that if this was done, and three HD channels and two SD channels operated, then the cost per SD would be just over €625K and just over €1.5m for HD. Currently, 2RN charge $925m for SD.

Comreg should force TV3, TG4, and UTVi to do this, or prevent them offering HD to pay platforms.

Remember, charges per channel in analogue days was of the order of €3m per year.

icdg · 25-01-2016 10:46am

There are stipulations that certain RTE channels be placed on certain muxes contained in their approvals. Not sure why the Government decided to hamstring RTE like that - maybe to ensure that there would always be two muxes - but there you go. However it does not really matter what RTE pay 2RN, since they are effectively paying themselves. The same is not true of any of 2RN's other customers though.

As for Saorsat - I would love to know how people are actually using it as their primary means of television viewing? No one has been able to give numbers.

Sam Russell · 25-01-2016 5:01pm

icdg wrote: »

There are stipulations that certain RTE channels be placed on certain muxes contained in their approvals. Not sure why the Government decided to hamstring RTE like that - maybe to ensure that there would always be two muxes - but there you go.

I would it is the same reason why RTE 2 must show kids programmes without adverts, and probably the same reason why RTE NN is not allowed adverts. And also why the Oireachtas channel had to be on Saorview for free although they are willing to pay Sky €250,000 for a lesser service. I do not know what that reason is, but I'm sure it is the same one.

However it does not really matter what RTE pay 2RN, since they are effectively paying themselves. The same is not true of any of 2RN's other customers though.

Well it does matter, because Comreg set the rates and RTE pay for it out of their budget which is under extreme scrutiny by Comreg, the BAI and the other broadcasters. TV3 can get a State funded bailout, but RTE cannot.

As for Saorsat - I would love to know how people are actually using it as their primary means of television viewing? No one has been able to give numbers.

I would think it is few and far apart. Given that Saorview can reach nearly every house (98% according to the quoted figures) and those that cannot could probably get Sky, there would appear to be no point in it.

Elmo · 25-01-2016 7:54pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I have posted figures before.

2RN will get just under €12m for two muxes, regardless of the amount of bandwidth used. Unused bandwidth is just burnt off.

On my calculations, RTE could fit onto the one mux and should therefore pay €6m rather than their current €8m. The remaining mux could carry 3 HD channels and two (or three at a squeeze) SD channels on the second muxes. Figures would suggest that if this was done, and three HD channels and two SD channels operated, then the cost per SD would be just over €625K and just over €1.5m for HD. Currently, 2RN charge $925m for SD.

Comreg should force TV3, TG4, and UTVi to do this, or prevent them offering HD to pay platforms.

Remember, charges per channel in analogue days was of the order of €3m per year.

I know I just have to refer to your greatness on these fees. Thanks.

So TV3 currently pay around €1.85m per year for TV3 and 3e
And if they and TG4 and UTV Ireland started in HD they'd pay €2.1m an increase of 250,000

FRIENDO · 26-01-2016 11:24am

"I would think it is few and far apart. Given that Saorview can reach nearly every house (98% according to the quoted figures) and those that cannot could probably get Sky, there would appear to be no point in it."[/quote]
Add your reply here.

But people are entitled to FTA RTE services and what ever else our taxes pay for.
The approximate 2% unable to get saorview should not have to pay sky for RTE etc.
So their is a valid point in having the availability of Saorsat.

FRIENDO · 26-01-2016 11:27am

Sorry don't know what happened that above quote

Sam Russell · 26-01-2016 9:15pm

"I would think it is few and far apart. Given that Saorview can reach nearly every house (98% according to the quoted figures) and those that cannot could probably get Sky, there would appear to be no point in it."

FRIENDO wrote: »

But people are entitled to FTA RTE services and what ever else our taxes pay for.
The approximate 2% unable to get saorview should not have to pay sky for RTE etc.
So their is a valid point in having the availability of Saorsat.

Well, yes but how many of that 2% cannot get Saorsat? Not all locations can get satellite because of local terrain, buildings, or trees.

I would agree that Saorsat should get the whole Saorview signal.

Mr Sea Wolf · 26-01-2016 10:15pm

Only about 92=95 percent of the population could get analogue so I thought it was strange that Saorsat was set up at a time when money was very tight in RTE.

The Cush · 26-01-2016 11:56pm

Mr Sea Wolf wrote: »

Only about 92=95 percent of the population could get analogue so I thought it was strange that Saorsat was set up at a time when money was very tight in RTE.

RTÉ1 & 2 analogue coverage was in excess of 98% from over 170 transmitter sites, TG4 95% from less sites and TV3 85% coverage from 12 main transmitter sites.

Saorsat setup didn't cost that much, about €1.5m annually, leasing transponder space on an existing satellite and uplinking costs.

afatbollix · 27-01-2016 7:00am

Sam Russell wrote: »

I have posted figures before.

2RN will get just under €12m for two muxes, regardless of the amount of bandwidth used. Unused bandwidth is just burnt off.

On my calculations, RTE could fit onto the one mux and should therefore pay €6m rather than their current €8m. The remaining mux could carry 3 HD channels and two (or three at a squeeze) SD channels on the second muxes. Figures would suggest that if this was done, and three HD channels and two SD channels operated, then the cost per SD would be just over €625K and just over €1.5m for HD. Currently, 2RN charge $925m for SD.

Comreg should force TV3, TG4, and UTVi to do this, or prevent them offering HD to pay platforms.

Remember, charges per channel in analogue days was of the order of €3m per year.

Are you including the SD channels of the HD channels in these muxes as they would also have to be carried?

Also I can get a SD lease on a free to air sat for $15,000 a month. This cut price for Soarview is a PR stunt.

Sam Russell · 27-01-2016 9:27am

afatbollix wrote: »

Are you including the SD channels of the HD channels in these muxes as they would also have to be carried?

Also I can get a SD lease on a free to air sat for $15,000 a month. This cut price for Soarview is a PR stunt.

There is no need for SD on Saorview.

The service is provided only for Saorview approved sets and this requires the ability to receive HD - so no SD dual carry.

I do not understand the relevance of FTA space on a satelite. The problem with FTA satellites is not their cost to broadcast but their coverage - giving rise to rights issues. Saorsat cannot be received outside the island of Ireland. Most satellites that cover Ireland also cover all of the UK and some most of western Europe. Rights to cover that region would be expensive.

Perhaps your Satellite might be of interest to the Oireachtas as that would be cheaper than they currently pay Sky and there are no rights involved. In fact few in their right mind would watch them.

Elmo · 28-02-2016 9:27pm

UTV Ireland will air 25 years of the Oirechtas tonight.

Elmo · 02-03-2016 1:49am

From what I can tell OTV on Saorview is part of RTÉ due to RTÉ taking some of the charge, DCERN are now asking the BAI for a SIA under S. 103 of the Broadcasting Act 2009.

Jpmarn · 09-03-2016 2:39am

Oireachtas Tv is back on the air on Saorview this Tuesday night. The channel was showing Pope Francis addressing the European Parliament back in November 2014.

Hotblack Desiato · 09-03-2016 10:19am

Maybe they can move the Angelus onto OTV while they're at it?

Oireachtas TV

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