I hate the M50 [Warning post #222]

Alkers · 17-12-2015 4:31pm

At this stage, the only solution is public transport.

Idbatterim · 17-12-2015 4:51pm

When the M50 was widened, I bet the underlying projections were based on those low EC numbers.

this is what infuriates me, they simply pick the projections that suit them, do the cheap option, because either A) they have no spine

because there is more money to be made for lots of people doing it wrong time after time.

At this stage anything other than MN and DU etc is a waste of time and money. Yet PP has lapsed on DU and MN will now be a revised inferior option, both causing gridlock in Dublin for 5 more years minimum for amounts which are simply a total irrelevance. The lack of leadership and vision here is a total and utter disgrace! Nothing has changed!!!!

And when it came to fighting to secure funding etc, well the last person I would want doing it is our current transport minister! No wonder he was given the position! Who will be a soft touch that we can divert funding away from, for the holy grail areas of welfare increases and income tax reductions?...

Things are on the up here economic wise etc,booming exchequer returns, emigrants returning home! When I think of how well in some areas this country seems to do, despite the morons we have at the helm, it really makes me wonder just how good things could be, if we had proper leadership and government...

First Up · 17-12-2015 5:20pm

Idbatterim wrote:

Things are on the up here economic wise etc,booming exchequer returns, emigrants returning home! When I think of how well in some areas this country seems to do, despite the morons we have at the helm, it really makes me wonder just how good things could be, if we had proper leadership and government...

Is this an entry in a "Most Unintentionally Ironic" post competition?

Idbatterim · 17-12-2015 5:43pm

Is this an entry in a "Most Unintentionally Ironic" post competition?

I meant pretty much on an economic basis only...

First Up · 17-12-2015 6:21pm

Idbatterim wrote:

I meant pretty much on an economic basis only...

Yes, that's what I'm referring to.

Muahahaha · 17-12-2015 6:26pm

Paschal Donohue was on Prime Time the other night discussing the m50. What came out was a load of waffle about how variable speed signs will give the motorway an extra 10% capacity. I don't dispute that but the figures already show that the numbers using it are growing by 7-10% per year so this single measure will only alleviate one years worth of traffic increases. Then he admitted that it would take THREE YEARS to implement variable speed limits. Which by any calculation would suggest that by the time they are implemented in 2019 traffic will have increased by a further 20-30% from todays levels. Variable speed limits are nothing more than a plaster over the problem and to make matters worse its going to take three whole years to put the plaster on. You really couldn't make this stuff up.

OldMrBrennan83 · 17-12-2015 6:33pm

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RainyDay · 17-12-2015 6:39pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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We're a long way past catering for what a lot of people 'don't want'. If you want to avoid gridlock, we need public transport. If you're happy to spend hours of your day looking at the arse of the car in front, stick with the M50.

whosedaddy? · 17-12-2015 7:12pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Paschal Donohue was on Prime Time the other night discussing the m50. What came out was a load of waffle about how variable speed signs will give the motorway an extra 10% capacity.

And where is that extra 10% going to go? Traffic can't flow off the motorway properly with current volumes.

OldMrBrennan83 · 17-12-2015 7:16pm

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17-12-2015 7:30pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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I met a colleague on the train this morning who was avoiding the "morning bag", he was pleasantly surprised to find that he arrived at work earlier than he would have and he been driving!

OldMrBrennan83 · 17-12-2015 7:31pm

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17-12-2015 7:36pm

whosedaddy? wrote: »

And where is that extra 10% going to go? Traffic can't flow off the motorway properly with current volumes.

That traffic will probably go to where the new jobs are created, far, far away from where the potential employees live!

_Kaiser_ · 17-12-2015 7:39pm

Simona1986 wrote: »

At this stage, the only solution is public transport.

Not unless they dramatically alter how it's operated as well.

I'd wager much (if not most) of the M50 traffic during peak hours is people for whom using public transport would mean adding at least 1-2 hours to their already long enough day.

Public transport is slow, under-resourced and inefficient by virtue of the fact that it's still run more for (and subject to the whims of) the staff rather than the customer. Oh sure we have new websites and apps and on-street displays, but the core service is still as unreliable and "second class" as it was 10 years ago, or even 30 years ago!

Add to that then the point that the price has increased significantly over the past decade (during a recession no less!) and this doesn't seem likely to reverse and it adds up to being a last resort to those with any better options.

It's also not going to change as the signs are that we're going to be lumbered with FG for up to another 5 years, and their performance with regard to Dublin's transport problems (and the housing crisis they've created - which is causing much of these issues) hasn't exactly been "stellar" .. more concerned with parading down the Hueston platform crowing about "45,000 Jobs" for the cameras, or playing to parochial gombeenism "back home" than delivering REAL beneficial solutions that will address not just the problems Dublin has now, but 10 years from now.

The unfortunate truth is that the M50 mess is going to continue to get worse for the foreseeable future and we'll have only ourselves to blame after GE 2016 when "we" (I won't be voting for them anyway) re-elect these eejits.

17-12-2015 7:49pm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Perhaps so, but you can't sit and type a message into boards like I am right now while travelling!

s for overcrowding, depends on the route, I almost always find a seat (>99%).

_Kaiser_ · 17-12-2015 7:57pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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- and the fact that it's usually either too hit or too cold
- damp and wet/soggy if it's rained that day
- requires you to put up with other people's phone conversations or music choices
- is expensive, slower, generally takes indirect routes and more uncomfortable
etc...

No thanks.. like you I'll take my big comfortable car every time over the ability to surf the internet on my phone while crushed up against others. I'd rather sit in traffic than put up with that.. but the beauty of car is that you can generally reroute mid-journey whereas a bus has no choice but to plod along. If I was to do the same trip via public transport it'd take me at least 2 hours longer per day I reckon.

Barring an accident it's actually very rare that I get held up.. but then I have the option to start/finish later which helps significantly.

That IMO is the only real option given the issues I mentioned above and earlier.. flexible hours and the ability to work from home where possible. The point that I am one of many who's now been effectively priced out of Dublin (but still has to work here!) due to ridiculous rents and housing shortage is a major issue too.

magicbastarder · 17-12-2015 8:06pm

i'm commuting from glasnevin to leopardstown (bus and luas), probably going a similar distance to a colleague, who drives from killester to leopardstown. he's giving serious consideration to giving up the car; he has the advantage of living not too far from the dart station. his commute is regularly longer than mine.

i would not be able to drive to work; and i do own a car, which sits in the driveway when i'm in work. i'm too used to being able to read the news or a book on the way to work, instead of staring at a steering wheel in barely moving traffic. and i rarely have to stand; i leave the house just before 7am and am in the office before 8am.

RainyDay · 17-12-2015 9:43pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Not unless they dramatically alter how it's operated as well.

I'd wager much (if not most) of the M50 traffic during peak hours is people for whom using public transport would mean adding at least 1-2 hours to their already long enough day.

Public transport is slow, under-resourced and inefficient by virtue of the fact that it's still run more for (and subject to the whims of) the staff rather than the customer. Oh sure we have new websites and apps and on-street displays, but the core service is still as unreliable and "second class" as it was 10 years ago, or even 30 years ago!

Add to that then the point that the price has increased significantly over the past decade (during a recession no less!) and this doesn't seem likely to reverse and it adds up to being a last resort to those with any better options.

It's also not going to change as the signs are that we're going to be lumbered with FG for up to another 5 years, and their performance with regard to Dublin's transport problems (and the housing crisis they've created - which is causing much of these issues) hasn't exactly been "stellar" .. more concerned with parading down the Hueston platform crowing about "45,000 Jobs" for the cameras, or playing to parochial gombeenism "back home" than delivering REAL beneficial solutions that will address not just the problems Dublin has now, but 10 years from now.

The unfortunate truth is that the M50 mess is going to continue to get worse for the foreseeable future and we'll have only ourselves to blame after GE 2016 when "we" (I won't be voting for them anyway) re-elect these eejits.

Over 50% of daily commutes are under 3km length . Over 40% of school / college trips are under 2km in length.

http://irishcycle.com/2013/10/10/over-50-of-trips-a-day-in-ireland-are-less-than-3km/

People are welcome to choose their warm comfortable cars if they wish (until the oil runs out), but don't expect public money to be spent on your journey.

JPNelsforearm · 17-12-2015 9:51pm

RainyDay wrote: »

Over 50% of daily commutes are under 3km length . Over 40% of school / college trips are under 2km in length.

http://irishcycle.com/2013/10/10/over-50-of-trips-a-day-in-ireland-are-less-than-3km/

People are welcome to choose their warm comfortable cars if they wish (until the oil runs out), but don't expect public money to be spent on your journey.

Road tax

_Kaiser_ · 17-12-2015 10:17pm

RainyDay wrote: »

Over 50% of daily commutes are under 3km length . Over 40% of school / college trips are under 2km in length.

http://irishcycle.com/2013/10/10/over-50-of-trips-a-day-in-ireland-are-less-than-3km/

People are welcome to choose their warm comfortable cars if they wish (until the oil runs out), but don't expect public money to be spent on your journey.

We're talking about the M50 though not the school run. During peak hours (or even in general) I'd say there's not that many going just one exit up/down.

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Road tax

.. and every other tax a motorist pays.. VRT, VAT on fuel etc

Muahahaha · 17-12-2015 10:45pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Add to that then the point that the price has increased significantly over the past decade (during a recession no less!) and this doesn't seem likely to reverse and it adds up to being a last resort to those with any better options.

Its astonishing how much public transport fares have risen during the recession. In about the last 5 years fares on Dublin Bus have risen about 30% and right now we are at a time of oil being pretty cheap, when this inevitably changes and oil rises public transport fares will be set to rise even further. Right now it costs me nearly €6 on Dublin Bus to get to town and back, an 18km return journey. For €15 I can fill my motorbike tank and get 180km. To do 180km on Dublin Bus would cost me €60 or four times the price of using my own private transport. Granted I have insurance, motor tax (€80 per year) and maintenance costs but the prices are out of sync vis a vis private modes of transport.

Same goes with trains. I know quite a few Drogheda to Dublin commuters who gave up using the train due to increased fares, new (2012 iirc) costs of parking at the train station and being crammed into carriages like sardines standing all the way, every day. Now they just use their cars instead, there isn't any incentive (price or otherwise) to using public transport. There used to be but CIE took it away from them.

errlloyd · 17-12-2015 11:02pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i would not be able to drive to work; and i do own a car, which sits in the driveway when i'm in work. i'm too used to being able to read the news or a book on the way to work, instead of staring at a steering wheel in barely moving traffic. and i rarely have to stand; i leave the house just before 7am and am in the office before 8am.

How on earth is your colleague going to get from the dart to Leapordstown? (I actually have a friend who is contemplating this same problem).

I live near cherrywood and spent the last two weeks working in Northwood, and although the m50 has the potential to be quicker, with the consistency of crashes, I feel I should have used the tunnel and East link to get to and from work.

arctan · 17-12-2015 11:02pm

I used to hate the M50 when I was at home...

moved to the UK, the M50 at it's worst is a walk in the park to daily M25 or M27 traffic... or if something breaks down on the M6 ....

RainyDay · 17-12-2015 11:15pm

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Road tax

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

.. and every other tax a motorist pays.. VRT, VAT on fuel etc

It's not a savings account - it is tax. It doesn't really matter how tax is collected. Excise duty on booze doesn't get ringfenced for treating alcoholics. Excise duty on fags doesn't get spent on treating lung cancer.

Motorists have no right or expectation to get 'their' taxation spent on roads.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

We're talking about the M50 though not the school run. During peak hours (or even in general) I'd say there's not that many going just one exit up/down.

Indeed, but we're talking about transport. It is all one huge interconnected system. Traffic on the M50 is dependent on what happens on feeder roads. Traffic on feeder roads is hugely dependant on what public transport is available.

Carawaystick · 17-12-2015 11:49pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It is stupid that you have one motorway (regardless of it being 2 or 3 lanes) as the primary route for so many key destinations (Carlow, Waterford, Cork, Limerick etc). Ideally you'd have an M81 as well and maybe decent motorway-grade links/interchanges from it to the M7 and even M4/6.

France has one Motorway linking Paris (12Million) to Bordeaux (0,75 million)
passing Orleans(100k) and Tours (135k)

Cork Metro pop is 400k

Idbatterim · 18-12-2015 12:05am

Paschal Donohue was on Prime Time the other night discussing the m50. What came out was a load of waffle about how variable speed signs will give the motorway an extra 10% capacity.

I didnt see this, was this clown given the grilling he deserved?! What I wouldnt give to be in a studio audience and throw everything at him, the lying about the figures (using lower growth figures, as ones during boom were too optimistic (note that airport and m50 are already busier than boom), asking him what he thinks about the m50 being busier than the boom, the airport racking up incredible growth with numbers now higher than 2008, and we are just LEAVING the recession. The airport reckons figures will be up 18% this year on last year!

The bull**** claimed "savings" on MN and DU lot of it. Dismissing multi point tolling until has an adequate transport infrastrcture in place, coming from the man who several weeks ago knocked that back for us for half a decade minimum, with inferior schemes to "save" less than the figure that the exchequer returns are ahead of target for, this year alone, i.e. 3 billion! He will flat out simply keep towing out the party line and usual scripted ****, but someone needs to call this sham out for what it is and have it in front of a large audience. I would ram it down his throat!

Muahahaha · 18-12-2015 12:52am

If you saw Paschals performance you would have stuck your fist through the screen. On a debate about the m50 he never even mentioned DART Undreground or Metro North as part of a solution to m50 congestion. But instead Paschal was very quick to point out how the opening of the Phoenix Park tunnel, increased DART frequencies and the completion of Luas Cross City were all signs of 'progress' :rolleyes: The Sinn Fein guy (Meath TD Peadar Tobin) Paschal was debating was equally useless on transport and just used the debate to localise the problem to Co.Meath by stating if the IDA brought jobs to Meath then we wouldn't have these problems on the m50. He said more people living in Meath work in Dublin than work in Meath. He has a point but the IDA can't dictate where companies want to set up at the end of the day. Multinationals need to set up where the talent pool they need lives and often that means Dublin.

The Prime Time episode should be on the RTE Player by now but seriously Idbatterim don't go there, it'll only increase your blood pressure! Or else watch the report on the m50 (which is informative) but switch off before Paschal starts his waffle!!!

Idbatterim · 18-12-2015 2:22am

I took a look at it there, you are right, I shouldnt have watched it. The usual BS! He is like a parrot, like the rest of them! Is there any way of knowing in advance what show he would be on and trying to get onto the audience? He once again was let off scot free there, the only way you get them to do something here, is when they are shamed into it!

All this talk of a few buses (for a city the sizeo of Dublins )or variable speed limits, its laughable! the growth rates are so ridiculous that its nearly a waste of time talking about them or implementing them, serious solutions are needed and two of them, that moron and the rest of the cabinet knocked back several weeks ago!

I will agree with the SF guy on one thing, this talk of cutting USC, when there are so many areas here that desperately need funding is totally ridiculous (the marginal rate is a total joke, but thats another debate).

Mantis Toboggan · 18-12-2015 9:42am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's also not going to change as the signs are that we're going to be lumbered with FG for up to another 5 years, and their performance with regard to Dublin's transport problems (and the housing crisis they've created - which is causing much of these issues)

The unfortunate truth is that the M50 mess is going to continue to get worse for the foreseeable future and we'll have only ourselves to blame after GE 2016 when "we" (I won't be voting for them anyway) re-elect these eejits.

Who do you suggest we vote for?

gogreen81 · 18-12-2015 10:02am

Not closely following the thread but as someone mentioned about Meath.
Y can't buses ply from west mainly Lucan and blanch into sandyford . I work in sandyford and loads off guys in my office live in the west , travel m50 everyday. 1 bus would take out 100 cars from the road . Or a park and ride in west . Interested to know the pros and cons of the same unless there's a strict regulation on buses plying on motorway

I hate the M50 [Warning post #222]

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