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NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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  • Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    *cue all the rural users of this subforum rightly exploding*


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,311 ✭✭✭rob808


    Capital Plan: Initial €275 million broadband allocation “demonstrates commitment to conclusively deal with Ireland’s connectivity challenge”





    Tuesday, 29 September 2015



    Minister for Communications Alex White today (Tuesday) welcomed the capital investment plan allocation of €275 million for the National Broadband Plan. He said the funding would provide the initial stimulus required to deliver high speed broadband access to every home, school and business by 2020.



    Minister White said the €275 million did not represent the full cost of the National Broadband Plan (NBP) which would likely be spread over 20 years, well beyond the period of the capital investment plan published today. The Government is on target to go to tender on the state intervention element of the NBP towards the end of 2015, and Minister White said he would not outline the total level of Government funding envisaged until the tender process was complete.



    Minister White said: “The capital plan funding announced today demonstrates the Government’s strong commitment to this important project, which aims to conclusively deal with Ireland’s connectivity challenges and put us at the top of the international league for quality high-speed broadband. The €275 million will provide the initial stimulus for the early years of the state intervention under the National Broadband Plan.



    “This is an indication of the scale of the investment envisaged, but it is not the full cost. The full 20-year cost of the programme will emerge out of the tendering process, which will commence as planned at the end of this year. In the meantime I will not speculate about the final level of Government funding because, if I did, it could influence the tender process and drive the cost to the taxpayer up rather than down.”



    It is expected that the funds allocated today will be used to draw down EU funding of €75 million, which has already been agreed. The Department of Communications is also at an advanced stage of exploring the scope for further European funding through the European Investment Bank and the Ireland Strategic Investment Fund.



    Minister White said the NBP was on course to ensure that every home, school and business in Ireland had access to high-speed broadband by 2020, with 85% of premises covered by 2018. He said he would be able to proceed to formal procurement by the end of 2015, because all the milestones set for the delivery of the project had been met:



    · A draft Intervention Strategy was published for public consultation in July 2015, along with seven expert reports. Some 36 submissions were subsequently received from industry, local authorities, stakeholder groups and individuals


    · The Department of Communications has submitted its State Aid pre-notification to the European Commission in July 2015, as is required under EU rules


    · The Department is currently updating its high-speed broadband map to take account of new industry investment proposals, with a view to publishing an updated map later this year. The updated map will determine the final scope of the required state intervention to deliver high-speed broadband access to areas that will not be served by commercial providers.


    ENDS



    Contact

    cid:image002.jpg@01D0C499.7A7988D0

    Press Office

    Department of Communications, Energy & Natural Resources
    29-31 Adelaide Road, Dublin 2, Ireland D02 X285
    www.dcenr.gov.ie | @dcenr
    T:+353 1 678 2441 | M: :+353 87 2301 262/ +353 87 693 7580| E:Press.Office@dcenr.gov.ie





    ­­


  • Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭garroff


    We will have to remind our TDs of what they promised when they run past our doors before the election!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭ACLFC7


    When he says "promising that 85pc of premises will be covered by 2018
    Is that 85% of the total premises in Ireland or 85% of the premises which don't already have high speed broadband


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    Total cost to be spread over 20 years lol my son is 7 hell be 27 by the time they finish and hopefully not living in ireland . Jaysus piss up in a brewery.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    NBP the national broadband proposal , The indecent proposal . Man its sucks being Irish right now. No hasle with the banks getting fast connections.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,311 ✭✭✭rob808


    ACLFC7 wrote: »
    When he says "promising that 85pc of premises will be covered by 2018
    Is that 85% of the total premises in Ireland or 85% of the premises which don't already have high speed broadband
    yea he mean 85% of the NBP homes.It good that eir doing 300,000 houses.it give some hope for the another 400,000 homes the problem now is will eir and siro or even gigabite fibre be interested in bidding.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    dbit wrote: »
    Total cost to be spread over 20 years lol my son is 7 hell be 27 by the time they finish and hopefully not living in ireland . Jaysus piss up in a brewery.
    Maybe all this means is that there will be an annual government subsidy element for the NBP customers, and less of an upfront payment, and no change to the rollout schedule That's the optimistic take.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    It looks like openeir's masterstroke of releasing a map with some blue lines drawn on it has succeeded in taking those areas out of the NBP. Now they may be free to connect these areas if and when they see fit without fear of penalty clauses or government fines for missing deadlines. Remember broadbandtoz?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    KOR101 wrote: »
    Maybe all this means is that there will be an annual government subsidy element for the NBP customers, and less of an upfront payment, and no change to the rollout schedule That's the optimistic take.

    You are correct I believe. The twenty years is referring to the financing of the project not the actual connecting of premises.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,311 ✭✭✭rob808


    You are correct I believe. The twenty years is referring to the financing of the project not the actual connecting of premises.
    yea there not giving the full figure until the tendering finish.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,579 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    ACLFC7 wrote: »
    When he says "promising that 85pc of premises will be covered by 2018
    Is that 85% of the total premises in Ireland or 85% of the premises which don't already have high speed broadband
    rob808 wrote: »
    yea he mean 85% of the NBP homes.It good that eir doing 300,000 houses.it give some hope for the another 400,000 homes the problem now is will eir and siro or even gigabite fibre be interested in bidding.

    No, I read it to mean 85% of all premises by 2018, that includes all premises already connected to Eircom FTTC and UPC cable.

    85% of all NBP premises by 2018 would be far too aggressive.
    dbit wrote: »
    Total cost to be spread over 20 years lol my son is 7 hell be 27 by the time they finish and hopefully not living in ireland . Jaysus piss up in a brewery.

    In fairness, no surprise with this, that is how all capital expenditure is funded. LUAS, DART, motorways, etc. are all paid for typically over 20 to 30 years.

    You borrow the money upfront (our staggered over a few years of the construction) and then pay it off over 20 years, not much different from how a mortgage work. It makes a lot of sense given how low government bods are at the moment, it is almost free money.

    Note, this doesn't mean it will take 20 years to rollout, just to pay back.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    I just knew it, that the government would start stalling on this or cutting funding. An insane decision just like the decision to bin the plans for the dart underground.

    While government spending goes into other areas which I won't name wasting so much of tax payers money. This really makes my blood boil.

    With this big cut on the NBP they will probably opt for some cheap alternative.

    I am so lucky that my home will be one of the 300,000 to get Eir FTTH at some point over the next 5 years as I wouldn't like to be banking on this NBP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭MajesticDonkey


    Gonzo wrote: »
    I am so lucky that my home will be one of the 300,000 to get Eir FTTH at some point over the next 5 years as I wouldn't like to be banking on this NBP.

    Except that there's absolutely no requirement on Eir to provide you with that service within 5 years...that's the issue this has caused.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    Except that there's absolutely no requirement on Eir to provide you with that service within 5 years...that's the issue this has caused.

    Exactly, it is tactically brilliant by eir. Make it uneconomic for others to bid on the areas and you control the countryside. All with a few blue lines.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Except that there's absolutely no requirement on Eir to provide you with that service within 5 years...that's the issue this has caused.

    I think the reason they made the blue lines was not to lose out on a large market share over the next 50 to 100 years if the NBP was awarding all these areas to some other company. They've already lost most of Dublin to UPC/Virgin Media.

    This time around I do have faith that Eir will roll out their FTTH to most promised locations over the next 5 years tho it could stretch into 2021 or even 2022.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    Except that there's absolutely no requirement on Eir to provide you with that service within 5 years...that's the issue this has caused.

    There's a lot of blue on that map. Seems very ambitious but I sense 'slippage' alright. I'm too cynical perhaps, but then I've spent years dealing with Eircom both at business and consumer level. An old dog doesn't learn new tricks. :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,311 ✭✭✭rob808


    Gonzo wrote: »
    I think the reason they made the blue lines was not to lose out on a large market share over the next 50 to 100 years if the NBP was awarding all these areas to some other company. They've already lost most of Dublin to UPC/Virgin Media.

    This time around I do have faith that Eir will roll out their FTTH to most promised locations over the next 5 years tho it could stretch into 2021 or even 2022.
    The goverment just need to update the map so I can see if I'm getting FTTH of eir :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,969 ✭✭✭ItHurtsWhenIP


    ED E wrote: »
    *cue all the rural users of this subforum rightly exploding*

    scrubs-head-explode-o.gif


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭corsav6


    ACLFC7 wrote: »
    When he says "promising that 85pc of premises will be covered by 2018
    Is that 85% of the total premises in Ireland or 85% of the premises which don't already have high speed broadband

    Taken from NBP website.

    "The Intervention Strategy proposes that 60% of the premises in the Intervention Area are covered by December 2018 (85% of the country) and 100% by December 2020."

    My own house falls within the NBP area so looking like a few more years before I can upgrade from westnets 2mb wisp.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    MBSnr wrote: »
    There's a lot of blue on that map. Seems very ambitious but I sense 'slippage' alright. I'm too cynical perhaps, but then I've spent years dealing with Eircom both at business and consumer level. An old dog doesn't learn new tricks. :eek:

    As much as Ive hated Eircom over the years, they are a completely different animal to the company we saw holding onto 56k/ISDN for years and their hi-speed adverts back in the day! If they can FTTC the country in 3 years then they can definitely FTTH the blue lines by end of 2020. I just hope im much closer to 2017 than 2020!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    Gonzo wrote: »
    As much as Ive hated Eircom over the years, they are a completely different animal to the company we saw holding onto 56k/ISDN for years and their hi-speed adverts back in the day! If they can FTTC the country in 3 years then they can definitely FTTH the blue lines by end of 2020. I just hope im much closer to 2017 than 2020!

    I hold my breath , ready to scream take my money !!.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    So lets call a spade a spade all of us who don't currently have line broadband and are not passed by the Eir fibre blue line .... will we realistically get served within this decade?... or are we talking the decade after realistically?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    It looks like openeir's masterstroke of releasing a map with some blue lines drawn on it has succeeded in taking those areas out of the NBP. Now they may be free to connect these areas if and when they see fit without fear of penalty clauses or government fines for missing deadlines. Remember broadbandtoz?

    Mm,

    I had a look at the eir map with the blue lines.

    I am approx in an island with blue lines 2km away to the east of me, and 2k to the west of me.

    That surely has to kill the viability of ftth in my area even via the nbp ?

    Unless of course if the nbp areas are allowed to piggyback on top of eirs rural fibre network and just extend it out ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    Mm,

    I had a look at the eir map with the blue lines.

    I am approx in an island with blue lines 2km away to the east of me, and 2k to the west of me.

    That surely has to kill the viability of ftth in my area even via the nbp ?

    Unless of course if the nbp areas are allowed to piggyback on top of eirs rural fibre network and just extend it out ?
    But, not the viability for Eir. It does reduce it for their competitors which is the point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,137 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    Gonzo wrote: »
    I just knew it, that the government would start stalling on this or cutting funding. An insane decision just like the decision to bin the plans for the dart underground.

    While government spending goes into other areas which I won't name wasting so much of tax payers money. This really makes my blood boil.

    With this big cut on the NBP they will probably opt for some cheap alternative.

    I am so lucky that my home will be one of the 300,000 to get Eir FTTH at some point over the next 5 years as I wouldn't like to be banking on this NBP.

    Should have come as no surprise to anyone. It would not be Irish Government if there wasn't promises made that are then reigned back in.

    This government is operating a very clear model of short term planning, to put things in place that are new and shiny quickly, so they can lay their claim to it, and not leave something to be finished when another government might be in power.

    It's a totally political decision, and the typical short term, power securing moves that keep so many areas of this country stuck in a cycle of "out dated".

    Broadband really isn't a hot topic for them that would give them enough kudos if it went through, or cause enough ruptions if it didnt. So no surprise the funding got slashed by nearly 50%.

    This government is clearly going to dump a load of wasted money on the City Centre to Dublin Airport connection, which is a total waste of money, but is something new and shiny that can probably be completed within the next lifetime of government(which most likely will be FG in part) so they can reap the credit when it finishes.

    It's just another item on a long list of things that were promised, reigned back in, and evidence of this government being a total spoof about change and longterm planning. They are pretty clueless when left to their own devices.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,687 ✭✭✭jd


    TheDoc wrote: »
    This government is clearly going to dump a load of wasted money on the City Centre to Dublin Airport connection, which is a total waste of money, but is something new and shiny that can probably be completed within the next lifetime of government(which most likely will be FG in part) so they can reap the credit when it finishes.
    Eh no, metro north goes back into planning and a new railway order, so construction can't start for another 4 or so years. It's be 2025 at the earliest before it would be finished (and to be fair, it serves a lot more than the airport, but the DU should have proceeded) Only new rail construction to start in next 5 years is Malahide to Balbriggan electrification.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,000 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Am I reading things incorrectly, because I see no 'rolling back' of promises.

    There was a committment of some €510 million for NBP when the NBP coverage was to have been ~700,000 premises.


    Both eir and Siro have indicated that they will (commercially) provide service to a good part of those premises. Eir have said 300,000 I believe, so let us say Siro does an extra 100,000 (to allow for dual supply to some).


    So that leaves the gov to support connection to 300k premises and not the 700k.


    That surely deserves a reduction in the estimate of the cost of supporting the NBP?

    ...... or am I misinterpreting things? .....


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,311 ✭✭✭rob808


    Am I reading things incorrectly, because I see no 'rolling back' of promises.

    There was a committment of some €510 million for NBP when the NBP coverage was to have been ~700,000 premises.


    Both eir and Siro have indicated that they will (commercially) provide service to a good part of those premises. Eir have said 300,000 I believe, so let us say Siro does an extra 100,000 (to allow for dual supply to some).


    So that leaves the gov to support connection to 300k premises and not the 700k.


    That surely deserves a reduction in the estimate of the cost of supporting the NBP?

    ...... or am I misinterpreting things? .....
    well siro hasn't said anything about doing rural houses they are interested in NBP.I don't think siro will bother with rural Ireland if they don't win any of the NBP.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Am I reading things incorrectly, because I see no 'rolling back' of promises.

    There was a committment of some €510 million for NBP when the NBP coverage was to have been ~700,000 premises.


    Both eir and Siro have indicated that they will (commercially) provide service to a good part of those premises. Eir have said 300,000 I believe, so let us say Siro does an extra 100,000 (to allow for dual supply to some).


    So that leaves the gov to support connection to 300k premises and not the 700k.


    That surely deserves a reduction in the estimate of the cost of supporting the NBP?

    ...... or am I misinterpreting things? .....

    I reckon your right, the latest 'cut' in NBP estimated spending is taking 300,000 homes and business out of the equation as Eir have 'promised' to handle that. The NBP is now down to approx 400,000 instead of 700,000 premises. I have a feeling that SIRO have no interest in anything remotely rural unless they get government funding, For now I suspect that SIRO will continue to just focus on county towns and larger urban areas.


This discussion has been closed.
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