DART+ (DART Expansion)

murphaph · 25-09-2015 12:26pm

Disagree. We had a very good run and Dublin got 2 disconnected tram lines, one of which was a cheap win as it runs mostly on an old railway alignment built during British rule.

I think only a Dublin focused party that makes an elected mayor with tax raising powers a reality will see any DU built.

markpb · 25-09-2015 12:38pm

D.L.R. wrote: »

The best we can hope for now re Dart Underground is the go ahead of Metro North in some form, despite that fact that MN is really the lower priority.

That depends on your point of view. DU makes better use of existing resources by opening more of the city centre to people who already have a rail service. Metro North adds rail services to parts of the city that don't have one already. Both lines have the effect of making the existing lines more useful by growing the network. I don't think it's fair to say that one is higher priority than the other - they solve different problems.

D.L.R. · 25-09-2015 12:58pm

markpb wrote: »

That depends on your point of view. DU makes better use of existing resources by opening more of the city centre to people who already have a rail service. Metro North adds rail services to parts of the city that don't have one already. Both lines have the effect of making the existing lines more useful by growing the network. I don't think it's fair to say that one is higher priority than the other - they solve different problems.

Sure, but if you're building them in sequence, you have to say DU is, or should, be the higher priority. They're both hugely important of course.

murphaph wrote:

Disagree. We had a very good run and Dublin got 2 disconnected tram lines, one of which was a cheap win as it runs mostly on an old railway alignment built during British rule.

I think only a Dublin focused party that makes an elected mayor with tax raising powers a reality will see any DU built.

Can't argue with that, just trying to find a glimmer of hope! 100% agree re a Dublin Elected Mayor. That's absolutely massive.

Sam Russell · 25-09-2015 1:23pm

Bray Head wrote: »

Here's the map so people can make up their own minds. Apologies but Balbriggan at the top has been chopped.

After Clongriffin much of what is walking distance to the track is sea or fields. Compare this to the southside Dart line to Bray where apart from the stretch after Shankill there is continuous, high-density population.

But did the urban development follow the rail link and other PT infrastructure?

In other words, extend the railway service in capacity, speed and frequency and people will try to live near it, and (sub-)urban development will follow.

strassenwo!f · 25-09-2015 1:24pm

MrMorooka wrote: »

Clearly it needs to be redesigned to serve College Green instead.

I very much hope you are right.

jd · 25-09-2015 2:05pm

murphaph wrote: »

Even if Kenny got the money for free they couldn't be seen to build DU by their mostly non Dublin voters. That's all thus sh!t comes down to.

On cue, a Limerick newspaper

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/september-26-motorway-to-cork-demands-precedence-1-6975045

..
Mr Donohue did confirm that the Dart line will be extended as far as Balbriggan, which is now prime commuter land in north Dublin - a project which will cost a vast sum by the time it is completed around 2022. Perhaps, in knocking back the underground plan, he was mindful that spending billions on a single infrastructure project in the capital was likely to generate a hostile response from campaigners around the country who have seen their own projects put on the long finger.
..
Can the Dart Underground be deemed a greater need than the most important piece of motorway this country neglected to build in the good times, namely the road from Cork to Limerick, our second and third cities? In our view, absolutely not. The current road is not fit for purpose but hopes that the N20 would be upgraded to a motorway were dashed earlier this year by Mr Donohue.
..
We have waited too long already - and however compelling the case for the Dublin underground might be, it should not take precedence over this vital piece of regional infrastructure.
Local politicians aspiring to be part of the next Government should be told as much when they come knocking on doors.

MrMorooka · 25-09-2015 2:15pm

strassenwo!f wrote: »

I very much hope you are right.

I was being sarcastic at your expense.

murphaph · 25-09-2015 2:18pm

Yep. Ireland is so parochial it's almost painful, so if we dubs can't beat them we should join them and become parochial ourselves, electing Dublin centric politicians to deliver an executive mayor's office for our city. GAA county jerseys be damned. The people in the GDA need to stand up and be counted....there are 2 million of us ffs.

strassenwo!f · 25-09-2015 2:30pm

MrMorooka wrote: »

I was being sarcastic at your expense.

Unfortunately, College Green isn't on the table for the interconnector at the moment. Neither is St. Stephen's Green.

cgcsb · 25-09-2015 2:46pm

Shocking stuff from the Limerick Paper, the M20 project is certainly not more important than DARTu.

But of course a portion of the M20 is likely going to be approved next week.

cgcsb · 25-09-2015 2:48pm

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Unfortunately, College Green isn't on the table for the interconnector at the moment. Neither is St. Stephen's Green.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgKPNzJWNHk

cgcsb · 25-09-2015 2:57pm

I wonder why the announcement for DART to Balbriggan was made when we are also being told that the non undergound elements of the DART plan will be rolled out, i.e. DART to Maynooth and Hazelhatch and Balbriggan/Drogheda.

How long would such a DART expansion take anyway? there's at least a half dozen level crossings between Ashtown and Maynooth.

alias no.9 · 25-09-2015 2:58pm

Lenton Lane wrote: »

If I were Taoiseach, I would appoint people like David McWilliams to the cabinet.

I'd rather have a Public Transport Network than a somewhat clever but entirely pointless analogy about a Public Transport Network.

Idbatterim · 25-09-2015 3:15pm

Disagree. We had a very good run and Dublin got 2 disconnected tram lines, one of which was a cheap win as it runs mostly on an old railway alignment built during British rule.

I think only a Dublin focused party that makes an elected mayor with tax raising powers a reality will see any DU built.

Dont forget the port tunnel, but I totally agree, that is literally all we got which is laughable, but and this is a but, I do reckon at this stage, if it had not been for the crash construction would have commenced on DU and MN, if not already been completed... We were close, damn close. Lets see what they come up with now for the swords route!

I think there are a number of things all at once, conspiring against DU, 1. the upcoming election, finances and how it could / would be portrayed. 2. State finances (We are just coming out of recession, if they aren't going to do it properly, better wait a few years, when finances allow and things are bursting at the seems) being fobbed off with some bull**** option, I.e luas to airport, is worst case scenario.

strassenwo!f · 25-09-2015 3:31pm

cgcsb wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgKPNzJWNHk

Have the moderators disappeared entirely from this board?

strassenwo!f · 25-09-2015 4:02pm

The LUAS will be in College Green soon. We will then be able to see the numbers for North - South demand in the city, by comparing College Green with St. Stephen's Green.

Why would the East - West demand be any different?

Carawaystick · 25-09-2015 4:05pm

strassenwo!f wrote: »

The LUAS will be in College Green soon. We will then be able to see the numbers for North - South demand in the city, by comparing College Green with St. Stephen's Green.

Why would the East - West demand be any different?

Why would it be the same?

liam24 · 25-09-2015 4:13pm

strassenwo!f wrote: »

The LUAS will be in College Green soon. We will then be able to see the numbers for North - South demand in the city, by comparing College Green with St. Stephen's Green.

Why would the East - West demand be any different?

Because Dublin is on the coast? :rolleyes:

Idbatterim · 25-09-2015 4:24pm

The LUAS will be in College Green soon. We will then be able to see the numbers for North - South demand in the city, by comparing College Green with St. Stephen's Green.

Why would the East - West demand be any different?

Its still another two years off...

McAlban · 25-09-2015 4:45pm

Dear strassenwo!f,

The redesign(s) for DU currently proposed by the NTA still doesn't contain a routing through College Green.

Please go back to the other thread discussing "Alternative Route(s)". Which honestly at this stage should be called the strassenwo!f thread to avoid confusion with this one.

strassenwo!f · 25-09-2015 7:07pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Why would it be the same?

I'm sorry for asking another question, but why would there be any difference in the most desired city locations for people travelling by public transport from the East and the West of the city, on a network, compared to those travelling from the North and the South.

You would surely expect the most desired locations in the city to be pretty much the same, whether one is coming from the North, South, East or West.

When the LUAS (a north - south line) is linked up, we shall see which is busier (and therefore more desired by public transport users): the area around College Green, or the area around St. Stephen's Green.

If College Green is busier than St. Stephen's Green, indicating higher passenger demand to get to College Green, why would you build the much higher capacity East - West DART Underground to St. Stephen's Green, an area for which there is lower passenger demand?

You might do it if it was known that the ground or other conditions were much more difficult at College Green, thus necessitating considerably higher cost, but this is not currently known by us on the board.

murphaph · 25-09-2015 8:15pm

Fine. Build it via CG....I really don't give a **** where it goes through at this stage.

Hotblack Desiato · 25-09-2015 8:56pm

murphaph wrote: »

I think only a Dublin focused party that makes an elected mayor with tax raising powers a reality will see any DU built.

It's not tax raising that's needed, it's tax retention. Or else we put secession on the agenda (I'm not entirely joking.)

liam24 · 25-09-2015 9:07pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It's not tax raising that's needed, it's tax retention. Or else we put secession on the agenda (I'm not entirely joking.)

Fair enough. We'll relocate the IFSC, Dublin airport, Dublin port, all government departments, all the national museums, at least one of the Dublin universities, and the headquarters of every national organization to Cork or Limerick and let you off on your own. Let's see how long you last.

It won't take long to discover that Dublin is not richer than the rest of the country because of its amazing natural resources, or because of the superior DNA of its inhabitants, or because one of the least impressive capital cities in Western Europe is the main reason tourists visit the country, but because it is permitted to be by the grace of the Irish taxpayer.

strassenwo!f · 25-09-2015 9:52pm

murphaph wrote: »

Fine. Build it via CG....I really don't give a **** where it goes through at this stage.

It doesn't really matter what you do or don't give a **** about, as regards the route. You're in Berlin.

You're not going to be using it every day.

murphaph · 25-09-2015 10:17pm

strassenwo!f wrote: »

It doesn't really matter what you do or don't give a **** about, as regards the route. You're in Berlin.

You're not going to be using it every day.

Nor are you, remember? I am still a taxpayer in Ireland though, are you?

murphaph · 25-09-2015 10:22pm

liam24 wrote: »

Fair enough. We'll relocate the IFSC, Dublin airport, Dublin port, all government departments, all the national museums, at least one of the Dublin universities, and the headquarters of every national organization to Cork or Limerick and let you off on your own. Let's see how long you last.

It won't take long to discover that Dublin is not richer than the rest of the country because of its amazing natural resources, or because of the superior DNA of its inhabitants, or because one of the least impressive capital cities in Western Europe is the main reason tourists visit the country, but because it is permitted to be by the grace of the Irish taxpayer.

Dublin would still thrive Liam and I'm not pushing for Dublin to leave, just keep maybe a few quid for infrastructure every other capital its size in Europe takes for granted. The reason it would thrive is because it has 2 million people in the metropolitan area.

D.L.R. · 25-09-2015 11:40pm

liam24 wrote: »

Fair enough. We'll relocate the IFSC, Dublin airport, Dublin port, all government departments, all the national museums, at least one of the Dublin universities, and the headquarters of every national organization to Cork or Limerick and let you off on your own. Let's see how long you last.

It won't take long to discover that Dublin is not richer than the rest of the country because of its amazing natural resources, or because of the superior DNA of its inhabitants, or because one of the least impressive capital cities in Western Europe is the main reason tourists visit the country, but because it is permitted to be by the grace of the Irish taxpayer.

what a load of crap

strassenwo!f · 26-09-2015 12:51am

murphaph wrote: »

Nor are you, remember? I am still a taxpayer in Ireland though, are you?

I'm a taxpayer in a central european country, not in Ireland.

I'm not saying that it doesn't matter what route Dublin has for its highest capacity line. You are.

Grandeeod · 26-09-2015 1:12am

strassenwo!f wrote: »

I'm a taxpayer in a central european country, not in Ireland.

I'm not saying that it doesn't matter what route Dublin has for its highest capacity line. You are.

Unfortunately recent Governments have been known to actually use social media to gauge opinion and source excuses from said social media. I'm not sure if it was me or someone else (or my exhausted alter ego) that suggested the likes of you and your opinion could and would contribute to a reinvention of the wheel scenario. You have succeeded! Now is the time to prepare your ideas/plans for the forthcoming waste of time and money that will be the latest round of talking ****e regarding a version of DU.

There are some people on this thread that have been around the DU project for many many many years. To see it dumped on the basis of absolute political BS is annoying to them.

DART+ (DART Expansion)

Comments