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Irelands Mediterranean Migrant Crisis Response

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13567…12

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    #62
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Cold War Kid wrote: »
    I've no doubt you're right about many of the migrants not being refugees in genuine need.

    But be honest, do you really think there are absolutely no genuine refugees in need? Be honest now.

    Without doubt,and few are suggesting otherwise.

    What IS different here,is the scale,rapidity and organization of the migratory flow.

    The EU is now faced with a highly organized and successful attack upon it's Internal and External Social and Administrative services,including Asylum and Refugee systems.

    The allegation being,that EU A&I systems were overly restrictive and were not permitting the required numbers to enter.

    The current EU setup has shown itself to be barely capable of dealing with the potential collapse of it's structures,before any of this mass inflow occured.

    To overlay the numbers we are now looking at,directly on top of an already struggling Europe is Insanity on a mass self-destructive scale.

    The recogintion of this Insanity will not be accpted until the current European Contributors beging to either significantly increase Social Contribution Rates from existing populations OR significanly reduce the scale and amounts of Social Assistance available to EVERYBODY.

    There are NO magic easy alternatives available to fund Europes largesse here...so the referendum questions will have to be.

    1) Are you prepared to accept increases in contribution rates along with reductions to your Social Entitlements in order to fund Asylum & Refugee programmes.

    2) How much are you willing to forego in order to meet the requirements (In Germany,this is now an Open-Ended committment)


    3) Would you endorse a reduction of the Irish Overseas Aid budget (Currently €600,000,000 per anum)and the reallocation of this amount to fund the A&I requirements ?

    Three simple questions,as yet unasked.

    Still no mention from the Irish Government of how it intends to fund it's 1,800 new customers.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #63
    Cold War Kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,353 ✭✭✭Cold War Kid


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    This type of comment does nothing for the cause of refugees asylum seekers or indeed those making such comments.

    There is such a tiny increased risk from groups like IS ISIS or whatever they are being called this week and negative propaganda about the risk is only hurting those in genuine need

    In my honest opinion anyone seeking relocation on economic grounds should not be allowed into any other country without first obtaining a visa months in advance. It is the ease which these economic migrants are able to "country hop" that has created the current problem and the only logical and feasible action is to lock down European borders and only allow entry to those who have been processed and deemed to be genuine asylum seekers!
    That's not what I asked. I asked that poster if they genuinely believed there were no actual asylum seekers among the spoofers and Islamic extremists. They were referring to them as "so called" refugees.
    It's obvious that there are genuine cases of hardship and to pretend they don't exist is of no use.


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    #64
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    In regards to that video of those obvious migrants, they are on video and the ones throwing food away should be arrested documented finger-printed and immediately sent back to their land of origin. They are clearly not in need of food/water or any help. This is not what we want coming in here to our country, but they will be allowed to continue their voyage of invasion.

    The real refugees... many from Syria obviously need help, but these migrants on the video throwing food away is disgraceful.


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    #65
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Cold War Kid wrote: »
    That's not what I asked. I asked that poster if they genuinely believed there were no actual asylum seekers among the spoofers and Islamic extremists. They were referring to them as "so called" refugees.
    It's obvious that there are genuine cases of hardship and to pretend they don't exist is of no use.

    If you were a genuine asylum seeker. Would you not claim asylum in the first country free of persecution. No? These people are heading to a particular part of Europe.


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    #66
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    There was a report yesterday from the BBC news about a number of passports being intercepted in the post and that most were fake/forged Syrian documents.

    It appears that these economic migrants are about as organised as they can be with the help of social media and their smartphones and the word has spread that Europe is a free-for-all!

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/fake-syrian-passports-war-weary-fleeing-europe/story?id=33450833

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34150408

    http://www.politico.eu/article/migration-fake-syrian-passports-asylum-request-frontex/
    In the midst of a growing refugee crisis, some migrants have used fake Syrian passports to up their chances of getting asylum in Europe, the EU’s border agency Frontex said Tuesday.

    “There are people who are in Turkey now who buy fake Syrian passports because they know Syrians get the right to asylum in all the member states of the European Union,” Fabrice Leggeri, the agency’s executive director, told the French radio station Europe 1.

    Leggeri said that asylum seekers with a Syrian passport can come from the Middle East or North Africa and speak Arabic, but have the profile of economic refugees rather than Syrian war refugees.

    Frontex based its information on instances flagged by national authorities that screen asylum seekers at the border. Several countries have signaled such instances, which points at an organized effort of smugglers to sell Syrian passports to people looking to enter the EU.


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    #67
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    weisses wrote: »
    2 points

    1 they could have moved inside Turkey to a Kurdish province .. Apparently they felt save enough in Istanbul for years

    2 they could have moved back to Kurdish controlled areas in Syria, apperantly it's safe enough to go back and Bury his family so why not live there.

    It's a bit strange that you flee your country but have no issues going straight back in for a funeral

    He went back because he says without the family, he doesn't care enough to go to Europe.

    Kurds enjoy precarious safety in Turkey at best.
    Foggy_lad wrote:
    The sister in the video says "he has no teeth", "has a story about it", and that
    she was going to help him get his teeth fixed "but it's gonna cost 14,000 and
    up" Her father suggested "I think if they go to Europe for his kids and for
    better future".

    It would be nice if you just admitted they didn't say what you claimed and didn't try to drag the farce out any further.


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    #68
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    FelineOverLord wrote: »
    Yeah, it's called research. I'll make it clear from the start that I'm not engaging with you as it's bloody pointless, so I won't be answering any more of your posts.


    So you've no source for your statement at all then. I think its safe to to dismiss it in that case.


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    #69
    petrolcan
    Registered Users Posts: 898 ✭✭✭petrolcan


    Nodin wrote: »
    Would you mind explaining this please?

    The nay sayers are wildly reporting that Mr Kurdi was wanting to make it to Canada as he needed new teeth. They are also saying that it was his vanity that caused his family's death.

    Mr Kurdi did/does need new teeth.

    He had them pulled out by IS when they laid siege to Kobane.


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    #70
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Nodin wrote: »
    He went back because he says without the family, he doesn't care enough to go to Europe.
    If he was so concerned for his family or indeed his two precious boys why did he as an adult not wrap/tie the only life jacket they had around his two children who then would have had a chance at life? He himself would have had a much better chance of survival without a lifejacket than his wife or children.
    It would be nice if you just admitted they didn't say what you claimed and didn't try to drag the farce out any further.
    Did you listen to the video? If you did then why are you telling lies about the content and about what the man's sister says in the video?


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    #71
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    petrolcan wrote: »
    The nay sayers are wildly reporting that Mr Kurdi was wanting to make it to Canada as he needed new teeth. They are also saying that it was his vanity that caused his family's death.

    Mr Kurdi did/does need new teeth.

    He had them pulled out by IS when they laid siege to Kobane.

    Have you any link to a report or evidence to back this claim up?

    Also if he is a genuine Asylum applicant he would be eligible for a certain level of healthcare and dental care in whatever European country he was accepted in.


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    #72
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    If he was so concerned for his family or indeed his two precious boys why did he as an adult not wrap/tie the only life jacket they had around his two children who then would have had a chance at life? He himself would have had a much better chance of survival without a lifejacket than his wife or children.?


    I had no idea you were a life safety expert, or that the man had a life jacket.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Did you listen to the video? If you did then why are you telling lies about the content and about what the man's sister says in the video?

    There is no mention of going anywhere for "free teeth".


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    #73
    petrolcan
    Registered Users Posts: 898 ✭✭✭petrolcan


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Have you any link to a report or evidence to back this claim up?

    Also if he is a genuine Asylum applicant he would be eligible for a certain level of healthcare and dental care in whatever European country he was accepted in.

    "According to Canadian journalist Terry Glavin, who spoke to the aunt in Vancouver, Alan's father Abdullah had been kidnapped during the Islamic State siege Kobane earlier this year and had all of his teeth pulled out."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34142695


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    #74
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Nodin wrote: »
    I had no idea you were a life safety expert, or that the man had a life jacket.
    Widely repoted that he had a lifejacket and that they could not afford to buy more than one, obviously in the culture they come from the man was always going to get it because the women and children are often treated as nothing more than belongings.

    There is no mention of going anywhere for "free teeth".
    Sister was going to pay for his new teeth but was unable to get the money to him because he was undocumented/unregistered in Turkey so her father suggested he move to Europe so he would have a better life and presumably have benefits such as dental care at a much lower cost than 14 thousand Dollars?

    Please explain what exactly was the imminent danger they faced in Turkey(in any time of the 3 years they were there!) that made them eligible for asylum or anything more than economic migrants looking for a better life than their poorer home country could give them?


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    #75
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    petrolcan wrote: »
    "According to Canadian journalist Terry Glavin, who spoke to the aunt in Vancouver, Alan's father Abdullah had been kidnapped during the Islamic State siege Kobane earlier this year and had all of his teeth pulled out."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34142695

    That report also states that the family NEVER APPLIED for entry into Canada! Their stories change so often, can we believe anything that comes from this family?


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    #76
    petrolcan
    Registered Users Posts: 898 ✭✭✭petrolcan


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    That report also states that the family NEVER APPLIED for entry into Canada! Their stories change so often, can we believe anything that comes from this family?

    "But Abdullah's brother, Mohammad, did submit an application, though it was rejected for being incomplete, they added."


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    #77
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    If he was so concerned for his family or indeed his two precious boys why did he as an adult not wrap/tie the only life jacket they had around his two children who then would have had a chance at life?

    I wanted to reply to this but I honestly can't think of anything worth saying that won't have me banned.


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    #78
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    petrolcan wrote: »
    "But Abdullah's brother, Mohammad, did submit an application, though it was rejected for being incomplete, they added."

    That has/had nothing to do with Abdullah and his wife and children though! Abdullah made NO application to Canada for asylum or visas or anything else, he also had not properly registered in Turkey for whatever reason.

    Whatever about this one tragic family the bigger picture is what the Irish authorities need to be concerned about and getting the truth out of so many people desperate for entry to the EU for mostly economic reasons will be no walk in the park!


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    #79
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    so her father suggested he move to Europe so he would have a better life and presumably have benefits such as dental care at a much lower cost than 14 thousand Dollars??

    That's not what he said, so you might be best not presuming.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Please explain what exactly was the imminent danger they faced in Turkey(in any time of the 3 years they were there!) that made them eligible for asylum or anything more than economic migrants looking for a better life than their poorer home country could give them?


    They are kurds.


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    #80
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Please explain what exactly was the imminent danger they faced in Turkey(in any time of the 3 years they were there!) that made them eligible for asylum or anything more than economic migrants looking for a better life than their poorer home country could give them?
    Nodin wrote: »
    They are kurds.

    Last time I checked there was no instances of "being a kurd" responsible for the death or even harm of any person ever!

    Yes some places in Syria Kurds are tortured and worse even killed but not in Turkey where these people were living for at least three years.

    So again please explain the imminent danger these people were in while living safely in turkey? I say the only danger they faced was of Abdullah's own making(by his insistence on entering Europe). They were well fed and clothed and wanted for nothing except "more".


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    #81
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    SSLguru wrote:
    I honestly hope the scum marching from Budapest to Austria get plowed down by lighting or traffic .


    They should be met by a wall of military tanks. Given a choice

    Sign up to a safe refugee camp, go back where you came from or die.

    No problem with genuine refugees but these chancers need to be shown no mercy


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    #82
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    Nodin wrote:
    There is no mention of going anywhere for "free teeth".


    Noboby mentioned FREE teeth. The woman was paying for his new teeth.


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    #83
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    petrolcan wrote:
    "According to Canadian journalist Terry Glavin, who spoke to the aunt in Vancouver, Alan's father Abdullah had been kidnapped during the Islamic State siege Kobane earlier this year and had all of his teeth pulled out."


    "According to a journalist"


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    #84
    Cold War Kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,353 ✭✭✭Cold War Kid


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    "According to a journalist"
    But come on, if that was the level of back-up given in relation to a position you agreed with, you wouldn't be questioning it.

    It's confusing when people who are so critical of ISIS (and rightly so) condemn/are suspicious of those fleeing from them. I have no problems with concerns about economic migrants or islamic fundamentalists (of course) - but the suffering and desperation of the refugees is plain to see on our news stations. There's no "staging" going on.

    I don't get the need for people like foggy_lad who otherwise act as if they're decent, to be so lacking in compassion. And before someone says something about "feels" - humanitarian concerns are nothing new. They're not an internet or "SJW" invention. It's part of what makes this society better than the ones they are fleeing.


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    #85
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    Cold War Kid wrote:
    But come on, if that was the level of back-up given in relation to a position you agreed with, you wouldn't be questioning it.


    Look over this thread and see if I have disputed anyones sources or links.

    One of the lads posted similar link a while ago but it wasn't good enough because it didn't match their opinion. I'm simply pointing out the contradiction!


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    #86
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    Cold War Kid wrote:
    It's confusing when people who are so critical of ISIS (and rightly so) condemn/are suspicious of those fleeing from them. I have no problems with concerns about economic migrants or islamic fundamentalists (of course) - but the suffering and desperation of the refugees is plain to see on our news stations. There's no "staging" going on.

    Cold War Kid wrote:
    I don't get the need for people like foggy_lad who otherwise act as if they're decent, to be so lacking in compassion. And before someone says something about "feels" - humanitarian concerns are nothing new. They're not an internet or "SJW" invention.


    I don't think anyone has a problem with the genuine refugees, but this "let em in" "think of the children attitude is just asking for trouble. These people shouldn't be left anywhere without at least ID.


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    #87
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    10000(Ten Thousand) expected to arrive in Germany TODAY alone!

    It is definitely time to close European borders to Germany and any other country that accepts this level of illegal migrants. They are mostly arriving into Austria and going onwards to Germany but will spread out like a plague when they realise that Germany is not to their liking!


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    #88
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    10000 expected to arrive in Germany TODAY alone!

    It is definitely time to close European borders to Germany and any other country that accepts this level of illegal migrants. They are mostly arriving into Austria and going onwards to Germany but will spread out like a plague when they realise that Germany is not to their liking!

    Merkel is going to suffer backlash over this ,
    If she wants so many migrants Europe should open a corridor from the med to Berlin and let these economic migrants transit directly and let the German government deal with them .
    No buses ,no trains unless the German government pay for trains and buses
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #89
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    I don't think anyone has a problem with the genuine refugees, but this "let em in" "think of the children attitude is just asking for trouble. These people shouldn't be left anywhere without at least ID.

    I most certainly have no issue or problem with Ireland giving refuge and new lives to a responsible and reasonable number of people who are genuinely fleeing immediate and imminent danger where they are living.

    What I take issue with are those who only want to move to Europe because they will get a better wage here or will have better welfare and healthcare and better economic prospects.

    It has already been shown that most migrants are young males 16-35 and they are mostly not fleeing immediate and imminent danger but are fleeing places where they were originally offered refuge because they see a better life in Europe!

    If Angela Merkel wants them then let Germany take them all and shut the borders with Germany!


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    #90
    Cold War Kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,353 ✭✭✭Cold War Kid


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    I don't think anyone has a problem with the genuine refugees
    They do though. And they are refusing to believe they are refugees.


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    #91
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Cold War Kid wrote: »
    They do though. And they are refusing to believe they are refugees.

    They may well be refugees(having left areas of conflict) but they have no valid reasons for entering Europe from the safe places they have been living for months and years!

    There is no conflict in Libya or Turkey!


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