Irelands Mediterranean Migrant Crisis Response

Gatling

Cold War Kid wrote: »

They do though. And they are refusing to believe they are refugees.

Because they had in a lot of case they had jobs and total safety .
Travelling across how many EU contries makes you a tourist and actively seeking one particular country to make your asylum application while avoiding it in multiple safe EU country's makes it a consumer choice not a life saving imminent life of death choice

Wanderer78

foggy_lad wrote: »

They may well be refugees(having left areas of conflict) but they have no valid reasons for entering Europe from the safe places they have been living for months and years!

There is no conflict in Libya or Turkey!

i wouldnt say libya's a metropolis though. i know an irish chap that was pretty much evacuated outta there last year in a hurry due to it being unsafe

ComfortKid

Cold War Kid wrote:

They do though. And they are refusing to believe they are refugees.

No, I haven't seen anyone on any of the many threads say that none of them are refugees or that we don't want refugees. You're making stuff up now.

It's a fact that over 70% are young "working age" men. Haven't you seen the carry on out of the thousands of em at Hungry and Calais.

All we want is for these refugees is to go to the first safe country, provide some kind of proof that they are genuine refugees front Syria and then apply for asylum.

Is that so much to ask?

Genuine refugees would or should have no problem doing this and I would welcome them here, but not the majority which seem to be voilent scum.

Cold War Kid

Libya's a mess.

I am simply talking about those who are obviously in desperation. Nobody else.

foggy_lad

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i wouldnt say libya's a metropolis though. i know an irish chap that was pretty much evacuated outta there last year in a hurry due to it being unsafe

What countries around the Mediterranean are at war or have serious conflicts going on at the moment?

I know a lad that had to be evacuated outta Germany and another that had to be gotten out of London due to it being unsafe for them to stay.

Cold War Kid

ComfortKid wrote: »

No, I haven't seen anyone on any of the many threads say that none of them are refugees or that we don't want refugees. You're making stuff up now.

I'm genuinely not. Someone said it on this thread. Foggy_lad is trying to find any excuse whatsoever not to deem people refugees. Look at the horrible stuff he's saying about a man whose two children drowned, and who may have had his teeth extracted by ISIS.

ComfortKid

Cold War Kid wrote:

I am simply talking about those who are obviously in desperation. Nobody else.

Yes, so are we, so what are you disputing?

Gatling

Cold War Kid wrote: »

I am simply talking about those who are obviously in desperation. Nobody else.

These groups travelling across the EU to get to Germany aren't in desperation though

foggy_lad

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Libya's a mess.

I am simply talking about those who are obviously in desperation. Nobody else.

None of those migrants look hungry or in dire straits!

We did nothing for all the African babies and children who were dying before our very eyes on the television in the famine years in Africa. now those people were in desperation!

How about we look after our own who are in desperation and when that is done we can start looking further afield for people to look after!

ComfortKid

"MAY HAVE" yet if I say he MAY NOT be genuine I get ridiculed.

He risked hes own and his families lifes to leave a safe country where he was safe for 3 years.

Cold War Kid

ComfortKid wrote: »

Yes, so are we, so what are you disputing?

People who are pretending those in genuine desperation don't exist/downplaying their suffering/pretending clearly desperate people are just scammers.

riffmongous

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i wouldnt say libya's a metropolis though. i know an irish chap that was pretty much evacuated outta there last year in a hurry due to it being unsafe

There is definitely a conflict there and Turkey is also going that way too with PKK related violence recently

foggy_lad

Gatling wrote: »

These groups travelling across the EU to get to Germany aren't in desperation though

ComfortKid wrote: »

"MAY HAVE" yet if I say he MAY NOT be genuine I get ridiculed.

He risked hes own and his families lifes to leave a safe country where he was safe for 3 years.

If you or I put our family on an inflatable boat and they died on the same journey we would be charged with manslaughter.

ComfortKid

Cold War Kid wrote:

People who are pretending those in genuine desperation don't exist/downplaying their suffering.

No, I haven't seen that anywhere either. Show me a post where someone downplayed the genuine Syrian refugees suffering? Show me a post where someone said there is no genuine refugees escaping from Syria..

Gatling

riffmongous wrote: »

Turkey is also going that way too with PKK related violence recently

That's been going on for decades now it's no where near Libya or Syria current situations

Cold War Kid

ComfortKid wrote: »

No, I haven't seen that anywhere either. Show me a post where someone downplayed the genuine Syrian refugees suffering? Show me a post where someone said there is no genuine refugees escaping from Syria..

Look at this thread alone. Look at Foggy_lad alone's posts. Sneering at that man, sarcastically making reference to his "precious" boys. Despicable.

petrolcan

ComfortKid wrote: »

They should be met by a wall of military tanks. Given a choice

Sign up to a safe refugee camp, go back where you came from or die.

No problem with genuine refugees but these chancers need to be shown no mercy

Ah, another pleasant individual.

ComfortKid

petrolcan wrote:

Ah, another pleasant individual.

What do you suggest, let them all in with no documentation? No proof of where they are coming from? This idea would deter the migrants and make it easier and faster for genuine refugees!

AlekSmart

Cold War Kid wrote: »

But come on, if that was the level of back-up given in relation to a position you agreed with, you wouldn't be questioning it.

It's confusing when people who are so critical of ISIS (and rightly so) condemn/are suspicious of those fleeing from them.I have no problems with concerns about economic migrants or islamic fundamentalists (of course) - but the suffering and desperation of the refugees is plain to see on our news stations. There's no "staging" going on.

I don't get the need for people like foggy_lad who otherwise act as if they're decent, to be so lacking in compassion. And before someone says something about "feels" - humanitarian concerns are nothing new. They're not an internet or "SJW" invention. It's part of what makes this society better than the ones they are fleeing.

Accepting a level of genuine concern regarding the bona fides of these migrants is welcome.

I would commend CWK on this attitude,as most responses to the contrary,appear to suggest that those opposing a relaxation of current long-standing A&I requirements are extremists,racists or xenophobes of varying levels.

Media coverage of the current crisis is indeed to a certain level of acceptance and correctness,with images and accounts which conform to the required on-message status always to the fore.

Thus,photo journalism will tend to prioritize the images of the 25% Women,Children or Disabled ahead of the 75% unaccompanied military age males,simply because that will sell to the European News Agencies,all of whom will be in reciept of regular briefings from the Governmental agencies involved,as well as the highly adroit NGO's who each seek to prioritize their own particular field of operations.

In time,as the immediacy of the situation declines,and the inevitable problems are farmed out across a less than fully acceptant European populace,the media will move to whatever new humanitarian emergency arises,and the smaller localized issues will be left to simmer in isolation.

I'm unsure as to whether we,in Western Europe have the right to describe "our" Western societal culture,in terms such as "It's part of what makes this society better than the ones they are fleeing."

It may not have been the intention,but it comes across as claiming some moral high ground that could be argued by our new arrivees.

Some of these cultures represent the oldest recorded existence of life on this planet,which,as we see with recent ISIS attacks in Palmyra,represent a clear target for their destructive powers.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/09/rubble-palmyra-syria-isis/403921/

Where they burn books, they will ultimately burn people, Heine rightly warned in one of his plays. At Palmyra the sequence was reversed but the logic was the same. They began by killing people. Khaled al-Assad was not only an expert on Palmyra’s antiquities, he was also their protector. For 50 years he served as the city’s director of antiquities, presiding over excavations and restorations, assisting scholars from around the world in their study of the rich history of the ancient metropolis. When ISIS captured Palmyra last spring, many of its statues and its smaller objects were taken into hiding to protect them from the marauders. ISIS held Assad for a month and tortured him, in the hope that he would reveal the location of the hidden treasures, which they abhorred for religious reasons but coveted for economic reasons. The holy warriors were also plunderers; they financed their depredations in part by the sale of the idols they despised.

It appears that this hero of archaeology and the history of art told the caliphate’s thugs nothing, and in late August they butchered him publicly. A masked swordsman beheaded him. His bleeding body was hung on a traffic light, with a placard calling him an “apostate” and denouncing him for attending “infidel conferences.” His severed, still-bespectacled head was displayed on the ground beneath his corpse. He was 82. By all accounts Khaled al-Assad was a good Muslim, and also a supporter of Bashar al-Assad. But in the practice of his calling he was an exemplary humanist, in a terrifying land where humanism is apostasy and apostasy is death. He did not perish for a political ideal; he perished for a cultural ideal. He was a martyr for the ideal of civilization.

The extent of savagery perpetrated in the name of their crusade is well known,yet the reality of a Western European world now increasing it's exposure level to such threats apparently cannot be debated on mainstream channels ?

Gatling

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Look at this thread alone. Look at Foggy_lad alone's posts. Sneering at that man, sarcastically making reference to his "precious" boys. Despicable.

He's a point though you put your wife and kids into a dodgy dingy while keeping the only life jacket for yourself says alot about a person in my opinion.

It's like exiting a burning building and locking the door behind you so you can go to call for help

ComfortKid

Cold War Kid wrote:

Look at this thread alone. Look at Foggy_lad alone's posts. Sneering at that man, sarcastically making reference to his "precious" boys. Despicable.

Did he or anyone say that there is no genuine refugees? No!

Did he or anyone deny the suffering genuine refugees trying escape from Syria are going through? No!

Stop lying.

petrolcan

ComfortKid wrote: »

What do you suggest, let them all in with no documentation? No proof of where they are coming from? This idea would deter the migrants and make it easier and faster for genuine refugees!

I'm quite happy to admit that I don't have a solution.

I'm also not advocating death if they don't turn around to where they came from!

Pat Mustard

Mod:

The problems on this thread are:

1. Racist nonsense quoting spurious sources.
2. Abuse and calling people trolls.
3. Trolling.
4. Replies to trolling; feeding the trolls.
5. Posters sniping at each other.
6. Off topic posting.
7. Discussing bans on other forums, which is very much off topic.
8. Arguing with moderators on-thread.

All of this behaviour stops now or there will be cards and bans.

Major rules to remember are to attack the post, not the poster and don't be a dick.

Old Jakey and FelineOverLord, please do not post in this thread again.

petrolcan

Gatling wrote: »

He's a point though you put your wife and kids into a dodgy dingy while keeping the only life jacket for yourself says alot about a person in my opinion.

It's like exiting a burning building and locking the door behind you so you can go to call for help

Where did you find that the father was wearing a life jacket?

"Mr Kurdi said that the boat’s captain, a Turk, panicked when high waves battered the boat and jumped into the sea. The lifejackets the Kurdi family carried were lost when the boat capsized. “I took over and started steering, the waves were so high and the boat flipped,” said Mr Kurdi. “I was holding my wife’s hand. My children slipped away from my hands. We tried to hold on to the boat. Everyone was screaming in pitch darkness"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/abdullah-kurdi-father-of-drowned-son-aylan-describes-the-moment-his-two-children-slipped-away-10485387.html

Cold War Kid

Comfort Kid, I would not say something if I didn't believe it was true. Have a look at some of the posts on this thread downplaying the suffering of those fleeing these conflict areas.
Fine if Foggy_lad questions the man's actions - no issue with that. What's reprehensible is his sneering at a man who has lost his children.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Accepting a level of genuine concern regarding the bona fides of these migrants is welcome.

I would commend CWK on this attitude,as most responses to the contrary,appear to suggest that those opposing a relaxation of current long-standing A&I requirements are extremists,racists or xenophobes of varying levels.

Media coverage of the current crisis is indeed to a certain level of acceptance and correctness,with images and accounts which conform to the required on-message status always to the fore.

Thus,photo journalism will tend to prioritize the images of the 25% Women,Children or Disabled ahead of the 75% unaccompanied military age males,simply because that will sell to the European News Agencies,all of whom will be in reciept of regular briefings from the Governmental agencies involved,as well as the highly adroit NGO's who each seek to prioritize their own particular field of operations.

In time,as the immediacy of the situation declines,and the inevitable problems are farmed out across a less than fully acceptant European populace,the media will move to whatever new humanitarian emergency arises,and the smaller localized issues will be left to simmer in isolation.

I'm unsure as to whether we,in Western Europe have the right to describe "our" Western societal culture,in terms such as "It's part of what makes this society better than the ones they are fleeing."

It may not have been the intention,but it comes across as claiming some moral high ground that could be argued by our new arrivees.

I'd stand by it though. This is a better society in which to live and raise children, than the ones they are fleeing. And by miles for women.

I do agree with your concerns about extremism, but how can those fleeing ISIS be the same as them?

Pat Mustard

Cold War Kid wrote: »

What's reprehensible is his sneering at a man who has lost his children.

Mod:

This is a forum for debate and discussion. I asked that the sniping should stop. You can either attack his post or you can refrain from posting. The sniping adds nothing to the discussion and is dragging it off topic.

All of the sniping stops now.

Galwayguy35

So 1800 is the figure the Government seem to be hinting at, but still no information as to how they will sort out the genuine refugees from the economic migrants and will there be backround checks done.

TBH I don't see how it will be possible to check if people have no passports, or any documents for that matter on their person to say how they are.

Seemingly several thousand people have offered to give a room to them and want the Government to match the figure, a noble sentiment but I wonder have they thought this through?

How do they know who they are letting into their home?

Will they foot the bill for the welfare of the refugees?

I doubt it somehow.

Some have made comparisons with the Polish etc coming here which is ridiculous, the EE arrived ready and able to work, speak English, find accommodation and pay their way and contribute to the economy.

The refugees will be relying on the taxpayer to help look after their needs, 1800 we can cope with but thousands more like what the left say should be let in, not a hope.

Whether deliberate or not there also seems to be little or no debate on this with totally one sided discussion on the television and radio over the last few days and interviewers (who I won't name here) who are anything but impartial which is what they should be.

Wanderer78

i have feeling this whole thing will blow up in our faces coming from a financial and practical point of view. we cant even house our own at the moment. this is a mess

JONJO THE MISER

Streetwalker wrote: »

Can't have boards seen in a bad light can we :rolleyes:

Seems to me this site is just following the sheep in the media and banning all discussion from those opposed to the influx of Muslims into Europe and in particular Ireland. We all need to get with the programme apparently.

As for seeing that video on RTE haha dream on.

100% correct, RTE are pro open borders as are most of the media in this country.
On Liveline last week only 1 person was allowed on that went against this viewpoint, they did not dare do a phone poll to see the what the people thought.
Then on Primetime we had all 3 guests pro mass immigration, no balance at all.

Wanderer78

like most, im deeply saddened to watch all this unfold but we need to come up with some sort of plan that will have a better chance of working for us all. this situation has the potential to financially break many countries in europe including our own. practically, i really dont think we can house many of these people if any at all. ive no idea what the solution is, but we better get thinking fast. i can see this as potential euro collapser if its not dealt with correctly.