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Ireland to assist in migrant crisis in the Med.

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    #1082
    MRnotlob606
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    Why don't the gulf monarchies help out ?


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    #1083
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MorpheusKnight wrote: »


    ...'Eh, like three posts ago - Post 1073

    No mention of Irish people there. \However according to you they are constant so you should have no problem finding one that actually says what you claim.


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    #1084
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    MRnotlob606 wrote: »
    Why don't the gulf monarchies help out ?

    Because they have more sense ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #1085
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MRnotlob606 wrote: »
    Why don't the gulf monarchies help out ?


    They won't take Shia nor would Shia go there given the choice. They may aid financially.


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    #1086
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    MRnotlob606 wrote: »
    Why don't the gulf monarchies help out ?

    Why pay when the EZ will ?


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    #1087
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Why pay when the EZ will ?

    Yep...smart it is.....It's one thing becoming wealthy.....however it takes smarts to stay wealthy :eek:


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #1088
    IrishTrajan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭IrishTrajan


    MorpheusKnight wrote: »
    There seems to be a couple of posters here who have very high regard for nationalism.

    "Every country gets the governance it deserves".

    Nationalism is nothing to be ashamed of. You can point to times when nationalism was misused and abused (Nazi Germany, Fascist Spain/Italy, the USSR) but I can also point to nationalism when it has saved countries. France, during the Revolutionary Wars, Britain during the Second World War. Nationalism has, for the vast majority of its time in implementation, has led to significant benefits to the Nation, and by extension, the People.


    Apologies for going off-topic.


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    #1089
    IrishTrajan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭IrishTrajan


    Nodin wrote: »
    They won't take Shia nor would Shia go there given the choice. They may aid financially.

    What in the fúck do you think we're doing? We take god damn loans out to give the money away every year, and when we say we don't want thousands of illegal migrants, you scream "racist!"

    There's also the fact that Iran, Azerbaijan and Bahrain all have Shia-majority populations. All of which are a lot closer to their current places of living than Europe.


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    #1090
    MorpheusKnight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 360 ✭✭MorpheusKnight


    IrishTrajan wrote: »
    "Every country gets the governance it deserves".

    Nationalism is nothing to be ashamed of. You can point to times when nationalism was misused and abused (Nazi Germany, Fascist Spain/Italy, the USSR) but I can also point to nationalism when it has saved countries. France, during the Revolutionary Wars, Britain during the Second World War. Nationalism has, for the vast majority of its time in implementation, has led to significant benefits to the Nation, and by extension, the People.


    Apologies for going off-topic.

    There are nationalists posting on these boards rallying for the cultural destruction of Ireland by making Ireland a multi-cultural society thereby making Ireland, an un-Ireland.

    Kind of ironic, huh?

    I am not saying 'down with this sort of thing'

    I am just commenting on, oh, the irony, the hypocrisy of these nationalists.

    Singing songs of the Ra. Inviting the whole world not only to visit, but to pick up their social welfare checks and stay.

    It's a bit like the New Coke.

    Wasn't anything like the old Coke, at all, at all, at all.

    An un-Ireland, so to speak.

    Isn't that anti-nationalist???????


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    #1091
    IrishTrajan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭IrishTrajan


    MorpheusKnight wrote: »
    There are nationalists posting on these boards rallying for the cultural destruction of Ireland by making Ireland a multi-cultural society thereby making Ireland, an un-Ireland.

    Kind of ironic, huh?

    I am not saying 'down with this sort of thing'

    I am just commenting on, oh, the irony, the hypocrisy of these nationalists.

    Singing songs of the Ra. Inviting the whole world not only to visit, but to pick up their social welfare checks and stay.

    It's a bit like the New Coke.

    Wasn't anything like the old Coke, at all, at all, at all.

    An un-Ireland, so to speak.

    Isn't that anti-nationalist???????


    Nationalism is a tricky thing. Nationalism is the belief that the Nation-State should be made strong. Willy-nilly importation of culture clashes does not strengthen a nation, it does not allow for relatively unanimous decisions to be made.

    Yes, there are some left-wing who consider themselves nationalist (Sinn Fein, for instance) as they're doing what they believe is best for the people/State but that is arguably more Authoritarian Left than Nationalist.

    They believe the State is responsible for the people and that we should have a bloated welfare budget. That idea is not good for the State, as such it can not be classed as Nationalist (it weakens the State's financial/economic position, and detracts the State from pursuing worthwhile goals: such as investment in long-term stocks, or the procurement of/defence of vital interests on the world stage [our corporate tax rate in Europe, for example, I feel would be under threat if Sinn Fein took power])


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    #1092
    MorpheusKnight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 360 ✭✭MorpheusKnight


    Nodin wrote: »
    No mention of Irish people there. \However according to you they are constant so you should have no problem finding one that actually says what you claim.


    Er like Post 1072
    Originally Posted by Nodin viewpost.gif
    No, it offends my notion decency by rewarding racism, sectarianism, and giving fuel to Western racists who'll hop on that bandwagon so fast they'll break the suspension. However, on the bright side, its not going to happen.

    Eh, a word to the wise here. Ireland is a Western nation

    Unless
    you are specifically excluding Ireland from this statement and then it would be very helpful if you would just state same.

    Which
    would mean that Ireland has no racists, so I really don't know what you are talking about then in this particular instance .

    Unless,
    you ARE saying Ireland has racists and then you are admitting that you were specifically relating to Ireland when you stated

    '...Originally Posted by Nodin viewpost.gif
    No, it offends my notion decency by rewarding racism, sectarianism, and giving fuel to Western racists who'll hop on that bandwagon so fast they'll break the suspension. However, on the bright side, its not going to happen...' in Post 1072

    Which
    brings us to post 1073 where Nodin says
    I do? Quote and link please.

    Which
    brings us back to Post 1072.where you don't state Ireland is racist but then, ergo, it is not a western nation.

    Which
    would bring us round to Post 1076
    I do not understand why you have constant comments on how racist the Irish are, but are unable to give comment about racism and sectarianism in the ME and Africa how it affects a core group of these migrants.

    Which
    You have skilfully avoided answering




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    #1093
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    MorpheusKnight wrote: »
    There are nationalists posting on these boards rallying for the cultural destruction of Ireland by making Ireland a multi-cultural society thereby making Ireland, an un-Ireland.

    Kind of ironic, huh?

    I am not saying 'down with this sort of thing'

    I am just commenting on, oh, the irony, the hypocrisy of these nationalists.

    Singing songs of the Ra. Inviting the whole world not only to visit, but to pick up their social welfare checks and stay.

    It's a bit like the New Coke.

    Wasn't anything like the old Coke, at all, at all, at all.

    An un-Ireland, so to speak.

    Isn't that anti-nationalist???????

    Nobody wants the type of nationalism seen in the Balkans or parts of America that is not to say we should just ignore all aspects of nationalism. Various European countries have a very strong sense of affinity with their culture and this is not something to be looked down on. The Muslim world has to find its place on this planet and come to accept cultures that border its adherence.


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    #1094
    MorpheusKnight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 360 ✭✭MorpheusKnight


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Nobody wants the type of nationalism seen in the Balkans or parts of America that is not to say we should just ignore all aspects of nationalism. Various European countries have a very strong sense of affinity with their culture and this is not something to be looked down on. The Muslim world has to find its place on this planet and come to accept cultures that border its adherence.

    KingBrian2
    Please clarify this statement further as I am not sure that I understand your jist

    The Muslim world has to find its place on this planet and come to accept cultures that border its adherence


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    #1095
    MorpheusKnight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 360 ✭✭MorpheusKnight


    IrishTrajan wrote: »
    "Every country gets the governance it deserves".

    Nationalism is nothing to be ashamed of. You can point to times when nationalism was misused and abused (Nazi Germany, Fascist Spain/Italy, the USSR) but I can also point to nationalism when it has saved countries. France, during the Revolutionary Wars, Britain during the Second World War. Nationalism has, for the vast majority of its time in implementation, has led to significant benefits to the Nation, and by extension, the People.


    Apologies for going off-topic.

    It's not off topic.

    Nationalism is about the yearning and sustenance of one's culture.

    Yes it can be abused. Look at the EU, 28 nations. And 28 ways of interpreting regulations and directives. It is a matter of perspective and national will, or gullibility.

    But what I am trying to state here is that there is an irony, and hypocrisy, in a nationalist who would most normally be a protectorate of the national culture and customs, would advocate and be the same person who would have open borders and invite just any, old immigrant, as people that dilute the very same customs and culture that nationalists seek to protect.

    The above is merely an academic point and not an attempt to deride non-nationals/immigrants in any way whatsoever.

    In fact, for the most part, they are cool. Some bad apples there, though.


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    #1096
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    MorpheusKnight wrote: »
    KingBrian2
    Please clarify this statement further as I am not sure that I understand your jist

    The Muslim world has to find its place on this planet and come to accept cultures that border its adherence

    The Muslim world spans from North Africa to West Asia. Is predominantly Islamic as it uses the Quran as a point of reference for political, legal and social matters. Effectively Islamic Jurisprudence which governs all aspects of peoples lives in this region. For them the Mosque is the pillar of their communities.


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    #1097
    MorpheusKnight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 360 ✭✭MorpheusKnight


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    The Muslim world spans from North Africa to West Asia. Is predominantly Islamic as it uses the Quran as a point of reference for political, legal and social matters. Effectively Islamic Jurisprudence which governs all aspects of peoples lives in this region. For them the Mosque is the pillar of their communities.

    Disclaimer;
    I would suggest that the majority of Muslims living in Ireland are quite content to just get on with life and earn a living. However...

    I know there are some very religious Muslims here who go to the mosques from early morning 5 times a day.

    It is a way of life for them, and that is absolutely fine. For some the mosque is the pillar of their community and they just do whatever it is that they do and struggle with life and finances like the rest of us.

    Unfortunately, the 'purists' of their religion have a way of violently expressing their extreme and narrow interpretation of the rules which is an abuse provided with some justified misinterpretation. No chance democracy here, that's for sure.

    We seem to value our equalities and freedoms in a different way to Muslims, which inversely leads to an implosion of our Western values because these are the values that we have entrusted them with, for their benefit. These are the benefits that we would wish for ourselves, as we cherish these equalities and freedoms so much.

    This is because Islam is a religious, socio political way of life and because they have the Koran, there is no real need for democracy as the instructions and rules are already contained in the Book.

    It would my hope that most Muslims living in Ireland are experiencing a life in the West and Western values, to be a preferential way of living.

    It often seems to me that Islam is about a single, communal value whereas in the West it is more about individual values.

    And in those two values in some instances are just bi-polar opposites. East is East and West is West, so to speak.

    Unfortunately there seems to be a growing proportion of Muslims, globally, who deem their values so cherished that they, also like us, would protect those values at any cost.

    But as individuals, Muslims are more dedicated to this concept of singular, communal 'purist' values and their dedication to the cause and they are blowing up everything left, right and centre in the name of religion. Ironically this is often attributed to as the religion of peace. However this seems to be a contradiction to this concept of peace many times a day, globally.

    To be fair, we have been fairly fortunate in Ireland so far but that is because immigrants came to Ireland much later than they did to other countries.

    Having being so late to the game should let us see how things have gone so wrong in some other nations and provide us with an extra opportunity to fine tune this multi-cultural and diversified, idealist utopia.

    However it will mean some rules and regulations for this social multi-diversity to work.

    But what rules and regulations? And whose rules and regulations?

    Those are the questions.


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    #1098
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    MorpheusKnight wrote: »
    It's not off topic.

    Nationalism is about the yearning and sustenance of one's culture.

    Yes it can be abused. Look at the EU, 28 nations. And 28 ways of interpreting regulations and directives. It is a matter of perspective and national will, or gullibility.

    But what I am trying to state here is that there is an irony, and hypocrisy, in a nationalist who would most normally be a protectorate of the national culture and customs, would advocate and be the same person who would have open borders and invite just any, old immigrant, as people that dilute the very same customs and culture that nationalists seek to protect.

    The above is merely an academic point and not an attempt to deride non-nationals/immigrants in any way whatsoever.

    In fact, for the most part, they are cool. Some bad apples there, though.

    This mornings revelations regarding the preferences of youthful Pakistani's should be giving cause for reasonable concern.....

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/young-pakistani-men-flee-uk-and-flood-into-ireland-31248564.html
    A significant number of them are coming here from the UK, where they already have immigration records.

    Unpublished figures show that more than 550 applications were received from Pakistanis in the six-month period between last November and last month. This compares with 55 for the corresponding period in 2013 and 2014. As a result, Pakistanis account for over half of all asylum applications received in the past six months.

    Big place,Pakistan....highly developed economy...a nuclear power..one of the largest military groupings in the World...and,perhaps most importantly....A Federal Islamic Republic.

    With it's long established Colonial links to the Empire,but that Empire now belatedly reacting to a form of reverse Imperialism,it's hugely convienent that Éire sits nearby,with some of it's citizens beckoning alluringly to any passing foreigner,particularly those who can tell a good oul tale.....sure'n ourselves and the Pakistani's share so much of a past history with them oul Brit's that these poor young lads should actually be granted Irish Citizenship on the nod.....so to speak...;)
    But immigration officials say that many arriving here from the UK are attempting to "put down some sort of roots" here so that if they return to the UK they might be sent back to this country rather than deported to Pakistan.

    Officials said there was high level concern at the influx from the UK of non-genuine Pakistani asylum seekers and confirmed that these cases were being fast-tracked through the system.

    Ah but they would'nt do that now,would they...?
    Immigration officials believe that the increase is largely being driven by a clampdown by UK authorities on "overstayers", those who want to avoid being deported from the UK.

    Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald has directed her officials to take all necessary action, including enhanced co-operation with the UK authorities, to combat what officials describe as flagrant abuse of the common travel area between the two jurisdictions.

    Officials are also worried that abuses of the system impacts directly on genuine asylum applicants, in terms of accommodation spaces provided and length of time to process their cases.

    The real reason,of course is the UK Government's recent decisions,based largely on irresistable logic,to belatedly attempt to put order on it's now chaotic "Overstaying" problem.

    With it's Border Force staff now spending large amounts of resources chasing Pakistani overstayers up and down the country,and meeting stiff resistance in the process,it's now coming down to a face-off,and with a Single Party Government now in place,I would suggest the gloves are now off.

    This situation,of course,gives our little Republic an opportunity to step up to the plate, showing the World (Including the UK and Pakistan) that the Irish are just SO much more advanced,and simply..."Better",so don't be surprised when the proponents of the "Buy the World a Coke" approach surface on here,giving out about the lack of sympathy and resources being directed towards this latest grouping of exotic new arrivals to our shores....:)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #1099
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users Posts: 2,041 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    end of the road wrote: »
    1 suspected extremist does not mean they are flooding into europe in their droves

    Explain how you would filter these people out. Enlighten us


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    #1100
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MorpheusKnight wrote: »
    Er like ...............answering


    More guff. There is no mention of Ireland there, and only the most deliberately perverse reading would conclude that I meant all the West consisted of racists. You said I made constant comments, so this failure should not stop you providing an example of what you claimed. Unless, of course, you were just making things up....?


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    #1101
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MorpheusKnight wrote: »
    There are nationalists posting on these boards rallying for the cultural destruction of Ireland by making Ireland a multi-cultural society thereby making Ireland, an un-Ireland.

    ............

    Do please be more specific as to what you mean there. Are you made less Irish by the presence of those not of immediate or ancient Irish descent?


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    #1102
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »
    Explain how you would filter these people out. Enlighten us

    I think he means,by keping the new applicants segregated in a secure off-shore location until their stories can be verified.....at least I THINK that's what he meant ....?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #1103
    IrishTrajan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭IrishTrajan


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    I think he means,by keping the new applicants segregated in a secure off-shore location until their stories can be verified.....at least I THINK that's what he meant ....?

    Nope, that's what some of us were advocating, the Australian-style approach... End of the Road is of the "you'll not stop them coming, so stop trying"-mentality.


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    #1104
    MathDebater
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭MathDebater


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    The real reason,of course is the UK Government's recent decisions,based largely on irresistable logic,to belatedly attempt to put order on it's now chaotic "Overstaying" problem.

    With it's Border Force staff now spending large amounts of resources chasing Pakistani overstayers up and down the country,and meeting stiff resistance in the process,it's now coming down to a face-off,and with a Single Party Government now in place,I would suggest the gloves are now off.

    This situation,of course,gives our little Republic an opportunity to step up to the plate, showing the World (Including the UK and Pakistan) that the Irish are just SO much more advanced,and simply..."Better",so don't be surprised when the proponents of the "Buy the World a Coke" approach surface on here,giving out about the lack of sympathy and resources being directed towards this latest grouping of exotic new arrivals to our shores....:)

    Net immigration into the UK is 310k. The tories have said that it's their ambition to get it into the 'tens of thousands'. They were clamping down hard on non EU immigration before the election and now that the have a majority government they will be clamping down harder.

    For example, Theresa May has said that they will confiscate all illegal immigrants illegally earned wages. They are now deporting failed asylum seekers and making them appeal from within their home country, instead of allowing them stay in the UK whilst the appeal process is ongoing.

    As we share the Common Travel Area with such a jurisdiction and have much more lax policies, of course we are going to get the overspill. It's as inevitable as night turning to day.


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    #1105
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    MathDebater wrote: »
    Net immigration into the UK is 310k. The tories have said that it's their ambition to get it into the 'tens of thousands'. They were clamping down hard on non EU immigration before the election and now that the have a majority government they will be clamping down harder.

    For example, Theresa May has said that they will confiscate all illegal immigrants illegally earned wages. They are now deporting failed asylum seekers and making them appeal from within their home country, instead of allowing them stay in the UK whilst the appeal process is ongoing.

    As we share the Common Travel Area with such a jurisdiction and have much more lax policies, of course we are going to get the overspill. It's as inevitable as night turning to day.

    Ah God...but if we stay VERY quiet and cover our eyes,they might not notice us and pass on by......but we'll need LOADS a Shush,and plenty of Hush....just like in the olden days....;)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #1106
    Grab All Association
    Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭Grab All Association


    There was this bitter African douche bag posting homophobic stuff on the Examiner, Indo, mirror and various other Irish newspaper Facebook pages in reaction to the Yes result yesterday.

    His cover picture had a white girl having sex with a black guy and with the caption "Its not rape if she white. Its justice" 6 girls in NUIM (Ireland's clown college) liked the post.

    Fair play to Facebook they've seemed to have deleted the account after I reported it.

    Are these the type of people we want to let in to our country?


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    #1107
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Chris___ wrote: »
    There was this bitter African douche bag posting homophobic stuff on the Examiner, Indo, mirror and various other Irish newspaper Facebook pages in reaction to the Yes result yesterday.

    His cover picture had a white girl having sex with a black guy and with the caption "Its not rape if she white. Its justice" 6 girls in NUIM (Ireland's clown college) liked the post.

    Fair play to Facebook they've seemed to have deleted the account after I reported it.

    Are these the type of people we want to let in to our country?

    How do you know he was actually African and not some ass clown with a fake account?

    Do you think that its fair to base an assessment of the population of a continent with a population of over 1 Billion on this one (supposedly African) gobshite?


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    #1108
    Grab All Association
    Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭Grab All Association


    Nodin wrote: »
    How do you know he was actually African and not some ass clown with a fake account?

    Do you think that its fair to base an assessment of the population of a continent with a population of over 1 Billion on this one (supposedly African) gobshite?

    :rolleyes:
    I'd hardly think an Irish person would travel to Africa and take photos of a black man and then bring this person back to Ireland and take photos of him in and around the Maynooth area to set up a fake profile.

    Before we take in anyone they should be vetted and anyone who does come in should be excluded from certain welfare payments JSA/DA and deported if they don't seek work.


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    #1109
    MathDebater
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭MathDebater


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Ah God...but if we stay VERY quiet and cover our eyes,they might not notice us and pass on by......but we'll need LOADS a Shush,and plenty of Hush....just like in the olden days....;)
    Suspected bogus applicants are currently being interviewed by staff from the Office of the Refugee Applications Commissioner and can appeal against a decision to return them to the UK.

    If they were illegally in the UK and are bogus asylum claimants here; why allow them appeal their decision to be returned to the UK? Why not just deport them back to Pakistan?


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    #1110
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    MathDebater wrote: »
    If they were illegally in the UK and are bogus asylum claimants here; why allow them appeal their decision to be returned to the UK? Why not just deport them back to Pakistan?

    In fairness the government has been deportating men from Pakistan on a regular basis this year
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #1111
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,786 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Chris___ wrote: »
    There was this bitter African douche bag posting homophobic stuff on the Examiner, Indo, mirror and various other Irish newspaper Facebook pages in reaction to the Yes result yesterday.

    His cover picture had a white girl having sex with a black guy and with the caption "Its not rape if she white. Its justice" 6 girls in NUIM (Ireland's clown college) liked the post.

    Fair play to Facebook they've seemed to have deleted the account after I reported it.

    Are these the type of people we want to let in to our country?

    Steriotyping much there are we? And all us Irish are drunk misfits who fight and hate work


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