Gardai proposals to ban firearms

Nekarsulm · 22-01-2015 4:43pm

Sparks wrote: »

IFA's been told about it by a couple of different people. Haven't seen any response from them so far. (To be fair, they'd hardly have to notify me )

Time is probably too short now, but there is a new Farm Organisation setting up, have a look at "New Farm Lobby Group" over in Farming Forum.
They hope to attract 20,000 members. In its infancy right now, but perhaps worth making contact. Might buck up the IFA at the same time............

Grizzly 45 · 22-01-2015 4:45pm

Nope! We have to get the same right of reply,as many times and as often as needed too.And security concerns isnt good enough,as they can still be orderd to give their evidence "in camera" if need be.But TBH I dont think the chairman would be too happy about giving them this privilidge.In the open or not at all.

Grizzly 45 · 22-01-2015 4:49pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

The problem with farmers is, 85% of them have no idea this is happening,
aren't online to any extent (unless to register a calf birth) and the gun is only hauled out a half dozen times a year. IFA any use in this situation?

Maybe if there is a "grant from the EU" involved?:D Only kidding fellow farmers!
but seriously,most farmers consider the gun a tool,not a hobby so it will take awhile for them to wake up on this .

Cass · 22-01-2015 4:55pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Time is probably too short now, but there is a new Farm Organisation setting up, have a look at "New Farm Lobby Group" over in Farming Forum..

I heard about this on the radio the other day. It's meant to represent upland and commonage farmers mainly/mostly.

As you said it's still only in it's "we're going to", so below infancy stage and we need something long established and right now.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

And security concerns isnt good enough,as they can still be orderd to give their evidence "in camera" if need be.

Plus it was said in some court cases and mentioned in the review that saying there are public safety concerns without showing supporting that position is not in itself proof.

Sparks · 22-01-2015 5:06pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Time is probably too short now, but there is a new Farm Organisation setting up, have a look at "New Farm Lobby Group" over in Farming Forum.

Way ahead of ye

They do know about it, and if the IFA won't step up they might well do so, but their real focus is on other areas so if the IFA do speak up, they probably won't.

Witcher · 22-01-2015 5:09pm

If there was a grant in it for the IFA they'd have farmers writing submissions dawn till dusk :pac:

Sparks · 22-01-2015 5:21pm

Credit where it's due, they've changed the photo they were using for the web version of the story in the Examiner:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/owners-defend-rifle-use-as-gardaiacute-urge-ban-308340.html

homerhop · 22-01-2015 5:22pm

Strider wrote: »

If there was a grant in it for the IFA they'd have farmers writing submissions dawn till dusk :pac:

It's bad enough the AGS making sweeping comments about us, it may come to it that we might just need these farmers before the end of this. TBH unless they are involved in target shooting they just don't understand what's going on. The average Joe farmer really don't know much about firearm laws, do's and donts just that they can grab the rifle or shotgun out of the press and shoot a few crows or rabbits. My extended family being point in case on this. X member of family with rifle in his house and the shotgun in his fathers. Both in his fathers name. When I told them what they were doing was illegal and could land them in deep dodo, they replied that they thought once it was licences any one could use them. I would put a pound to a penny a lot if them are of that same thought process

Sparks · 22-01-2015 5:25pm

Hard to yell at them too loudly for that homer, when the law is such a piece of... well, you know.

homerhop · 22-01-2015 5:46pm

100% agree. You have to coax them along and you and I know they do things at their own pace. There also is a good bit of history between the IFA countryside and one of the major sports groups involved and never the twain shall meet.

Sparks · 22-01-2015 5:47pm

Well, this is interesting:

Alan Farrell, TD wrote:

Newly appointed to chair the FG Committee on Justice, Defence & Equality, I'll be meeting @simoncoveney shortly.

homerhop · 22-01-2015 5:58pm

why the change?

Sparks · 22-01-2015 6:01pm

homerhop wrote: »

why the change?

To the examiner article or the FG committee?

homerhop · 22-01-2015 6:18pm

Sparks wrote: »

To the examiner article or the FG committee?

FG committee

yubabill1 · 22-01-2015 6:32pm

homerhop wrote: »

FG committee

I know you didn't ask me, but I'm chipping in, anyway.

the change of chairman could be because every farmer who read the Irish Examiner (or Irish Times) today might be alarmed at the prospect of having to buy and install expensive security systems for their single barrels very soon.

Chair is immediately meeting Min for Agriculture - unlikely to be connected to any other subject the Committee is considering right now.

SVI40 · 22-01-2015 6:32pm

Is the FG Committee for Justice, Defence and Equality the same as the Joint Committee for Justice, Defence and Equality?

yubabill1 · 22-01-2015 6:43pm

SVI40 wrote: »

Is the FG Committee for Justice, Defence and Equality the same as the Joint Committee for Justice, Defence and Equality?

I did not see that until you pointed it out.

A Google says they are different.http://seankyne.ie/about-sean/

SVI40 · 22-01-2015 6:54pm

The Dáil website is still listing David Stanton as Chairman.

yubabill1 · 22-01-2015 7:02pm

SVI40 wrote: »

The Dáil website is still listing David Stanton as Chairman.

d Stanton chairs the Joint Committee (all party; Fg, Lab, FF, SF, Ind)

A Farrell seems to chair the FG Committee (probably made up of the FG members of the Joint Committee).

Sparks · 22-01-2015 7:04pm

SVI40 wrote: »

Is the FG Committee for Justice, Defence and Equality the same as the Joint Committee for Justice, Defence and Equality?

No, completely different groups.

duckman!! · 22-01-2015 7:25pm

Sparks wrote: »

That's in the US, ffs!

I know it's in the US, but haven't they used the mass shootings in the US as 1 reason to tighten gun licensing here?
Im almost sure I seen that somewhere, I could be wrong!

tac foley · 22-01-2015 7:35pm

I'd like to see the press using photographs of younger people on the range with their air pistols and rifles, and maybe a disabled shooter, too. Seeing as the RoI legislation treats ALL air guns as firearms - the .177cal being, in law, as equally a firearm as a .338LM.

And just in case you think I'm being trite, I TEACH people to shoot - all ages, and I help those who are disabled to shoot, including initially teaching my wheelchair-using daughter.

Surely we have a few thousand photos out there of the likes of our own IRLConor and co. doing their thing?

tac

Sparks · 22-01-2015 7:40pm

tac foley wrote: »

I'd like to see the press using photographs of younger people on the range with their air pistols and rifles, and maybe a disabled shooter, too.

Enjoy...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/owners-defend-rifle-use-as-gardaiacute-urge-ban-308340.html

tac foley · 22-01-2015 7:42pm

You must have been reading my mind......thank you for that.

tac

Hunterbiker · 22-01-2015 7:58pm

Sparks wrote: »

Credit where it's due, they've changed the photo they were using for the web version of the story in the Examiner:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/owners-defend-rifle-use-as-gardaiacute-urge-ban-308340.html

Fair play to them. I emailed the examiner this morning I didn't hear back but its good to see they listen.

homerhop · 22-01-2015 8:06pm

Ì also passed a comment on their fb page

Grizzly 45 · 22-01-2015 8:33pm

I spoke to the chairman [D Stanton TD tonite].He called me in ref to a question I had on this comittee procedure last week,he didnt get back to me in the time between then and now and it was more than answered for me yesterday,so it was a moot point.But good of him to return the call anyway.

I asked him about this second submission by AGS or our side .He said the comittee will consider bringing AGS back IF the comittee has any further points that need clarification from any party.

So if I read this rightly no we wont be going back for more submissions on generalities,but on specific points if they need clarification. He reiteriated that further written submissions on points raised are acceptable by either side.
So thats possibly what AGS might be doing,something in writing??

He is NONE too impressed as is the comittee with the lack of hard facts and figures and the non supplying of same by our friends in the AGS and DOJ.:)
Grizz

Grizzly 45 · 22-01-2015 8:45pm

duckman!! wrote: »

I know it's in the US, but haven't they used the mass shootings in the US as 1 reason to tighten gun licensing here?
Im almost sure I seen that somewhere, I could be wrong!

Think you are thinking of the submissions where there is a comparison that because shootings happen in the USA or elsewhere with semi auto rifles and handguns,if they are allowed here its sure to happen here as well! type arguement presented in the report???

And because it rains alot in Ireland the Sahara will become pasture land if lots of water is poured on it too from clouds type logic.:rolleyes:

There really ought to be a Godwin type law introduced in the global gun ownership debate ,that anyone who uses the "well in America guns are......"or "look at America with its gun...whatever" has automatically lost their arguement.

Its like trying to compare a blue whale[largest mammal on the planet] to a door mouse[the smallest known around here].Both are Mammals,and both Ireland and the US have gun ownership.That's where any simmilarity ends!

badaj0z · 22-01-2015 8:52pm

yubabill1 wrote: »

the change of chairman could be because every farmer who read the Irish Examiner (or Irish Times) today might be alarmed at the prospect of having to buy and install expensive security systems for their single barrels very soon.
.

Overall, I thought that the representatives of the shooting sports did very well but 3 "holes" were dug unnecessarily, this was one.This was further dug when the comment was made that ,any licensed firearms that were stolen, were probably of this type. This contradicted Des Crofton's comment about "few or none stolen". What was to be gained by pointing this out?
The other two were:
too much debate on SA rifles, leading to the old person's shoulder headline.
the "sawn off shotgun" illustration did nothing to advance our cause.

Nekarsulm · 22-01-2015 9:11pm

And if we could keep Charlie Bird off air, or at least repeats of his recent "re-examining" of a certain west of Ireland case, it would be beneficial.................

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Gardai proposals to ban firearms

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