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No, it's not. The myth that pervades is that that part of Dublin Bus is going to be sold off. That is what is incorrect.
What is not incorrect is to call the tendering of bus services privatisation. Dublin Bus is allowed to bid, admittedly, but if they do not win, privatisation will have taken place. Privatisation does not necessarily have to mean the sale of a state company. If the service was previously operated by a public body, and is then operated by a private company, that is privatisation.
With significant negotiations now under way in the Labour Relations Commission,much of the NTA/Govt policy is only now beiong teased out.
It is fair to suggest that the NTA's perception of the "London Model" as it proposes to introduce into Dublin,is somewhat flawed,as it is but ONE single element of this "Model" - Bus Route Tendering.
With Cities all over London now clamouring for similiar vote catching service levels,Transport for London's senior people repeatedly warn that introducing elements of TfL Bus policy on a stand-alone basis will not work...The London Model is a FAR more diverse and intricate method of managing the Transport requirements of an entire City than our Government appears to think.
However,such considerations have not stopped us before and unless a miracle occurs,it looks as if we are going down the (London) "Irish solution to an Irish Problem" road yet again.Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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Will the private operators operate under the DB brand and provide services such as stop announcements and RTPI?0
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However,such considerations have not stopped us before and unless a miracle occurs,it looks as if we are going down the (London) "Irish solution to an Irish Problem" road yet again.
With Dublin Bus being such a slovenly, inefficient company that it is unlikely that the proposed changes could result in anything worse than what we have.0 -
antoinolachtnai wrote: »With Dublin Bus being such a slovenly, inefficient company
not anymore. they are improving and have improved a hell of a lot over the years.antoinolachtnai wrote: »it is unlikely that the proposed changes could result in anything worse than what we have.
they're is no guarantee. anything better that people believe should be implemented can be with dublin bus, it will probably be the NTA implementing it anyway and not the actual operators?ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.
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antoinolachtnai wrote: »With Dublin Bus being such a slovenly, inefficient company that it is unlikely that the proposed changes could result in anything worse than what we have.
And of course you would have absolutely NO vested interest yourself in the bus industry. I honestly think that we don't have a bad bus system at all but I'd worry about the NTA making a total balls of things. If anything they have hampered Dublin Bus in recent years.0 -
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And of course you would have absolutely NO vested interest yourself in the bus industry. I honestly think that we don't have a bad bus system at all but I'd worry about the NTA making a total balls of things. If anything they have hampered Dublin Bus in recent years.
Perhaps you would care to outline how the NTA have hampered Dublin Bus?0 -
end of the road wrote: »not anymore. they are improving and have improved a hell of a lot over the years.
Coffee coming out my nose after reading that. Personally I have less services available to me at greatly increased costs. The major failings (lack of orbital routes, one ticket per journey not per bus, last bus too early) that existed when I started using DB twenty years ago all still exist.0 -
I understand and agree with your sentiment, here, Aard, but not with your use of the dictionary. It is privatisation. It is not deregulation.It's privatisation of the operation of each route. But not "full" privatisation including route selection, as happened in the UK (excluding London). Network design remains under the control of the NTA.0 -
They won't operate under the DB brand, but they will provide all of those services, yes, and will be co-branded as Transport for Ireland. Public transport information and bus stops will, eventually, be in a standardised format, across directly awarded (DB and BÉ) and tendered bus services.Will the private operators operate under the DB brand and provide services such as stop announcements and RTPI?0 -
Personally I have less services available to me at greatly increased costs.
what services would you like. would they're be a demand for such services. have you written to the NTA or your local td or the department of transport in relation to such services? costs have increased due to the fact they're is less government subsidy. none of us like it but we can just hope the subsidy goes up again.The major failings (lack of orbital routes, one ticket per journey not per bus, last bus too early) that existed when I started using DB twenty years ago all still exist.
they can be sorted out with what we have got at the moment if it could be kept.ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.
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And of course you would have absolutely NO vested interest yourself in the bus industry. I honestly think that we don't have a bad bus system at all but I'd worry about the NTA making a total balls of things. If anything they have hampered Dublin Bus in recent years.
What do you think the NTA have done wrong out of interest?0 -
I understand and agree with your sentiment, here, Aard, but not with your use of the dictionary. It is privatisation. It is not deregulation.
Privatisation is when public companies are turned private.
That is not what is happening here, since Dublin Bus is not being privatised, people are being allowed to bid for routes, including the public operators. Note the the last part.
It may turn out a public or a private company gets to run the routes. But they will have no more control than Dublin Bus have now, in fact they will probably have less.
But Dublin Bus is not being carved up and sold to the highest bidder, they just will now have competition for a contract which the former contractor (Dublin Bus) did not In true privatisation, the public operator would not have any chance of staying on.0 -
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And of course you would have absolutely NO vested interest yourself in the bus industry. I honestly think that we don't have a bad bus system at all but I'd worry about the NTA making a total balls of things. If anything they have hampered Dublin Bus in recent years.
Anton's credentials within the industry are well enough known,and as such I'd be happy enough to go with the old Mandy Rice-Davies quote..."He would,would'nt he ?".
Personally,as one of the hewers of wood and drawers of water,upon whom the likes of Antoin have to rely upon to operate their magnificent examples of commerciality,I would see great chances of progress under the NTA...IF it can be shown to listen and learn from past mistakes,both here and abroad.
The issues with the early NTA,were largely down to unfamiliarity with their chosen subject,and the need to assimilate a staff drawn from so many different sectors.
The roll-out of Leapcard would be one area where easy-does-it,"soft-launches" have been taken to their absolute limit.
I would have confidence in the more robust NTA to put some shape on the City's Public Transport,but,I note the silence surrounding the nub of so many of Dublin's Transport & Traffic problems......The inability to divert Private Motoring Traffic from the City Centre due to the need to maintain full access to Multi-Storey Car Parking...operated,of course,by yet more entreprenurial types,all keen to maximize revenue.
However,with the Irish political scene currently in a highly unstable situation with a sense of anarchy on it's fringes,the Irish Water situation carries added relevance to Government Policies in so many other areas,including Public Transport.
Quoting EU directive numbers to a baying crowd calling for the Country to leave that community may not prove very fruitful,but it is no longer a scenario which can be dismissed out of hand.:(Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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Wasn't there trouble with the extension of the 37 to Blanch. There was also issues with the 41x. I tend to have a natural suspicion towards quangos in general tbh.
Neither of those had anything to do with the NTA.
Both were as a result of Department of Transport ineptitude.
The DoT licensing section had an enormous backlog of licence applications, and had got to the stage of not approving any changes to any Dublin Bus routes that had any private operators serving any section of them for fear that the private operators would bring an action under EU law against them.
Hence they refused any extension of the 37 from Diswellstown to the Blanchardstown Centre because of a perceived threat to the UrBus service, due to the fact that they shared the same route from Ashtown to Castleknock. The fact that this deprived thousands of residents of a direct bus to/from Blanchardstown SC was a side issue.
Similarly the DoT had issues about the 41x operating via the Port Tunnel due to Swords Express operating via the tunnel. It took several local TDs to get involved before compromise routings around Swords were devised to allow both operators operate via the tunnel, but was followed by legal action by Swords Express, who won their case against the Minister for Transport.
Dublin Bus were also not allowed increase capacity on routes to Leixlip and Maynooth (which they alone served) due to Circle Line operating along the Lucan QBC to Lucan and Celbridge, despite a huge increase in housing in the two towns.
None of that has anything to do with the NTA. Thanks to the NTA, we now have a licensing section that approves changes in a much more timely manner and there are very clear criteria for how competing services should be operated.0 -
Privatisation is when public companies are turned private.
That is not what is happening here, since Dublin Bus is not being privatised, people are being allowed to bid for routes, including the public operators. Note the the last part.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93138134&postcount=12
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93163277&postcount=30
Please:- Read the thread in full (it's not very long) before replying.
- Don't tell me things I already know.
- Find a better dictionary.
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Neither of those had anything to do with the NTA.
Both were as a result of Department of Transport ineptitude.
The DoT licensing section had an enormous backlog of licence applications, and had got to the stage of not approving any changes to any Dublin Bus routes that had any private operators serving any section of them for fear that the private operators would bring an action under EU law against them.
Hence they refused any extension of the 37 from Diswellstown to the Blanchardstown Centre because of a perceived threat to the UrBus service, due to the fact that they shared the same route from Ashtown to Castleknock. The fact that this deprived thousands of residents of a direct bus to/from Blanchardstown SC was a side issue.
Similarly the DoT had issues about the 41x operating via the Port Tunnel due to Swords Express operating via the tunnel. It took several local TDs to get involved before compromise routings around Swords were devised to allow both operators operate via the tunnel, but was followed by legal action by Swords Express, who won their case against the Minister for Transport.
Dublin Bus were also not allowed increase capacity on routes to Leixlip and Maynooth (which they alone served) due to Circle Line operating along the Lucan QBC to Lucan and Celbridge, despite a huge increase in housing in the two towns.
None of that has anything to do with the NTA. Thanks to the NTA, we now have a licensing section that approves changes in a much more timely manner and there are very clear criteria for how competing services should be operated.
Fair enough lx, I stand corrected.0 -
Sorry, I know you weren't. What I meant to say was that what you described as "full privatisation" is better described as deregulation.I agree with you. And I'm not claiming it's deregulation. The NTA will still be a regulatory body.
The point I'm trying to make in being so pedantic is that, in terms of eventual outcomes, it doesn't make much difference whether something is sold or put out to tender. They're both privatisation (provided, of course, that a private bidder wins). As far as I'm concerned, the complete free-for-all that is the British bus market outside London is nuts, and I'm glad that's not happening here. But that doesn't mean that what's happening is not a form of privatisation. Even from a staff perspective, some Dublin Bus staff could find themselves TUPEd across to a new operator. The transaction that leads to that situation is of little consequence to them - they would be working for a newly privatised operator.
I will stop posting about terminology now.
For the record, I'm not anti-privatisation. I think a tender where the incumbent public operator is allowed to bid ensures that the government is getting the best possible value for money. But I think the government has been too tentative here, offering a contract that's not worth enough, and doesn't provide much opportunity for economies of scale. I would imagine the OP is correct about lack of interest from the private sector.0 -
Sorry, I know you weren't. What I meant to say was that what you described as "full privatisation" is better described as deregulation.
The point I'm trying to make in being so pedantic is that, in terms of eventual outcomes, it doesn't make much difference whether something is sold or put out to tender. They're both privatisation (provided, of course, that a private bidder wins). As far as I'm concerned, the complete free-for-all that is the British bus market outside London is nuts, and I'm glad that's not happening here. But that doesn't mean that what's happening is not a form of privatisation. Even from a staff perspective, some Dublin Bus staff could find themselves TUPEd across to a new operator. The transaction that leads to that situation is of little consequence to them - they would be working for a newly privatised operator.
I will stop posting about terminology now.
For the record, I'm not anti-privatisation. I think a tender where the incumbent public operator is allowed to bid ensures that the government is getting the best possible value for money. But I think the government has been too tentative here, offering a contract that's not worth enough, and doesn't provide much opportunity for economies of scale. I would imagine the OP is correct about lack of interest from the private sector.
That's why we are now seeing the discussions happening between the Dublin Bus/Bus Eireann unions and the NTA taking place to try to thrash out a deal and establish procedures for this situation going forward. Given the unions' implacable opposition to any private operator involvement, this may not be easy!
We don't as yet know what expressions of interest/otherwise have or will be made, as the whole process is in abeyance while the above discussions are carried out. I would tend to take any comments saying to the contrary with a pinch of salt.
I'd fully expect certain routes to be retained by the existing operators, but there are certainly other routes that may be attractive.0 -
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I'm not optimistic that there will be a great deal of private sector interest in these contracts. My pessimism is not based on the first post in this thread (obviously the OP has an agenda). Hopefully I'm wrong. Time will tell (if the process ever gets going again).We don't as yet know what expressions of interest/otherwise have or will be made, as the whole process is in abeyance while the above discussions are carried out. I would tend to take any comments saying to the contrary with a pinch of salt.0 -
antoinolachtnai wrote: »Under current arrangements, NTA pays just under five euros/km for bus services in Dublin. This is already an immensely sweet rate.
Hmmm I see you have moved away from your Dublin bus costs are double what they should be line....... is that because I showed you were comparing apples and oranges and because I pointed out that Dublin Bus is paying far less for fuel than you said was the going rate and given that, even if they paid their drivers just minimum wage they wouldn't be able to half their costs even if they employed nobody else.
The history of tendering including in London is that any initial savings are short lived, that the rate per kilometre moves swiftly back up once the tendering market has settled down with very little if any real competition for most tenders.
Any initial savings are at the expense of the terms and conditions of those actually driving and maintaining the bus network, resulting in staff shortages and lower calibre work force, that was the experience in London where the Mayor had to step in with a bonus payment for staff just to try and encourage people to stay within the industry.
Now to keep it in perspective Dublin Bus have taken over a year to try and fill 100 positions with a recession and over 400,000 people on the dole, that is in the current workers paradise that is the semi state Dublin Bus, now imagine what type of people are going to run and and grab the €10 an hour job the private operator will be offering, and imagine how long they will stay working, shifts and weekends for €400 a week before tax, prsi and usc, of course those with a family will be entitled to family income supplement so the it is just taxpayers subsidy for low paid jobs while large multinationals make a handsome profit from the " you can't lose " tendering process. Because the deal they are getting unlike the current model Dublin Bus operates in, is you get paid no matter what the demand for the service is, so if faced with the 2008/09 situation with customer numbers falling through the floor, these operators will still be paid they will still make their profit and the tax payer and the passengers will pick up the tab.0 -
where do you think the money will come from to pay these agreed rates?
how can the NTA get more money so they can sweeten the pot offered to run these 10% routes?
From the NTA proposals you would have seen that the NTA want to avoid TUPE, so they want any new operators to bring their own staff, obviously on much lower conditions than Dublin Bus staff currently enjoy, that is where the profit is and then after x amount of years they will point out that operator A on the 17a route is only costing y percentage of Dublin buses costs per Km that will then be used to justify further tendering and to attack your terms and conditions, IF there is a lack of interest as you suggest it may be the difficulty in attracting and retaining cheap enough labour or it could be that some in the private sector aren't all that enamoured with the prospect of regulation from the NTA.0 -
Even from a staff perspective, some Dublin Bus staff could find themselves TUPEd across to a new operator. The transaction that leads to that situation is of little consequence to them - they would be working for a newly privatised operator.
surely this has to be one of the biggest issues for any potential private operator coming on?; taking on staff at potentially higher rates of pay than they would otherwise engage in because of this regulation. Especially with a big union and years of ingrained DB habits and procedures that may not fit with the operators way of working.0 -
Hmmm I see you have moved away from your Dublin bus costs are double what they should be line.......
They are double what they should be. What operators can you name that have such high costs per km?is that because I showed you were comparing apples and oranges and because I pointed out that Dublin Bus is paying far less for fuel than you said was the going rate and given that, even if they paid their drivers just minimum wage they wouldn't be able to half their costs even if they employed nobody else.
You pointed things out for sure. Fuel is a commodity and it is hard to understand how Dublin Bus could be paying much more or less than what anybody else is paying. The fact remains that the operating costs are extremely high. There must be massive inefficiency at Dublin Bus besides salary levels.
In relation to why DB has difficulty recruiting, I would not be surprised if prospective employees are concerned about conditions at Dublin Bus when they read stories like this. http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-bus-driver-assaulted-by-colleague-after-complaint-about-untidiness-570344.htmlThe history of tendering including in London is that any initial savings are short lived, that the rate per kilometre moves swiftly back up once the tendering market has settled down with very little if any real competition for most tenders.
Costs/km across Europe are vastly lower than Dublin Bus costs/km.
Tendering isn't just about price. It's also about quality.Now to keep it in perspective Dublin Bus have taken over a year to try and fill 100 positions with a recession and over 400,000 people on the dole, that is in the current workers paradise that is the semi state Dublin Bus, now imagine what type of people are going to run and and grab the €10 an hour job the private operator will be offering, and imagine how long they will stay working, shifts and weekends for €400 a week before tax, prsi and usc, of course those with a family will be entitled to family income supplement so the it is just taxpayers subsidy for low paid jobs while large multinationals make a handsome profit from the " you can't lose " tendering process. Because the deal they are getting unlike the current model Dublin Bus operates in, is you get paid no matter what the demand for the service is, so if faced with the 2008/09 situation with customer numbers falling through the floor, these operators will still be paid they will still make their profit and the tax payer and the passengers will pick up the tab.
Dublin Bus operates in exactly the same model as other operators under 1370/2007.
You keep coming back to reasons why you don't want anything in Dublin Bus to change. The problem is that customers and the city need for change to happen.0 -
antoinolachtnai wrote: »They are double what they should be. What operators can you name that have such high costs per km?
You pointed things out for sure. Fuel is a commodity and it is hard to understand how Dublin Bus could be paying much more or less than what anybody else is paying. The fact remains that the operating costs are extremely high. There must be massive inefficiency at Dublin Bus besides salary levels.
In relation to why DB has difficulty recruiting, I would not be surprised if prospective employees are concerned about conditions at Dublin Bus when they read stories like this. http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-bus-driver-assaulted-by-colleague-after-complaint-about-untidiness-570344.html
Costs/km across Europe are vastly lower than Dublin Bus costs/km.
Tendering isn't just about price. It's also about quality.
Dublin Bus operates in exactly the same model as other operators under 1370/2007.
You keep coming back to reasons why you don't want anything in Dublin Bus to change. The problem is that customers and the city need for change to happen.
And I asked you how you would half them given that if they were half their current rate you could only fuel the buses and employ drivers at minimum wage and do absolutely nothing else, no maintenance, no cleaners, no managers, no clerical, no supervisors, no ticket checkers, no medical staff, nothing how long would this company run ? where would you find 2000 drivers willing to work for minimum wage how long would they stay ?
We were down this road and Dublin Bus fuel costs are substantially lower given that you said that when you were running your company you were only getting a few cents off the retail price. remember ?
Dublin Bus accounts are there in public it is not that hard to do, 3200 employees, about 2100 drivers then 1000 or so over other grades over 8 depots plus head office, some of those grades working shifts like supervisors, ticket checkers, maintenance, mechanics etc. If you break it all down you might save a job here or there but definitely not massively overstaffed.
Scraping the bottom of the barrel really aren't we ? 2 employees have a fight wow ? I'm sure it is unheard of for employees to fight in any other organisation must only happen in Dublin Bus.
You can't do a direct comparison with other countries in Europe or anywhere else because it ignores some basic facts like cost of living, tax rates, minimum wage etc etc
Incorrect dublin bus changes all the time, I don't believe in change for changes sake, change that will lead to improvements in the service are welcome, but those changes should not be at the price of undermining the jobs people do and trying to worsen pay and conditions, which is what tendering is about, hence why the NTA want to avoid TUPE.0 -
Seeing as Dublin Bus is such a marvellously lean, efficient machine, this will be an ideal opportunity for the company to prove itself in the market. Perhaps Dublin Bus will tender for some routes outside Dublin?0
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end of the road wrote: »not anymore. they are improving and have improved a hell of a lot over the years.
Thanks, I just spit coffee all over my laptop!
Yes, DB has "improved" from one of the worst bus operators in Europe to just plain bad now.
They are still way behind the rest of Europe on bus operating best practises from 15 to 20 years ago!!
These are the main areas they need to improve on to come anywhere close to be considered an average european bus operator:
1) Regular services need to run until 12:30, not 11:30 and then a proper 24 hour 7 days a week night service take over.
When I say proper, I mean a regular service, that picks up passengers both inbound and outbound at all stops and charges max €1 over the standard ticket price and all tax saver, monthly tickets etc. work on it.
2) 100% of buses using double or triple doors and ALL doors opened at all stops. No excuses, I've used bus services all over Europe and seriously DB has the worst dwell times I've ever experienced. And not just a little slower, magnitudes slower!
3) Dump the DB ticket machines in the bin, it clearly is a piece of junk. We need fast, well working ticket machines.
We need to move away from any driver interaction at all, it should be tag-on/tag-off.
4) We need to move to true integrated ticketing with Bus/Luas/Dart. We need to get away from the old thinking that DB has, that you are taking a bus journey and move to how people think, that they are making a complete journey from A to B and it should be irrelevant how many buses, Luas and Darts to they take to make it.
All of this stuff is the normal best practise in Europe. And I don't just mean Germany, I was in Poland for the first time 10 years ago and I was blown away by how superior it was back then to even DB is today. I saw there single decker bendy buses with 3 to 4 doors, that opened at every single stop, zero driver interaction, you bought or stamped a paper ticket on a machine on the bus (and tickets are T90 style), very simple, dwell times that were simply astounding, mere seconds per stop, actual timetables at every stop that it actually matched!
That was 10 years ago in Poland!!!!!!!!!
DB might have some shinier buses today, flaky RTPI and horribly implemented Leap, but really the main operating areas of DB haven't improved or changed at all in the past 20 years!
In fact it is easy to argue that DB service has greatly disimproved recently. Reduced routes, reduced number of buses, reduced capacity, much less nightlink services and all while we have experienced massive fare increases!
I see DB having much the same disease that infects Irish Rail and BE. IR thought that shiny new trains meant their service was now so much better, but in reality it isn't, it is just a shiny lick of paint to try to fool people into thinking that things have improved while in reality they same old union practices are still in place. DB is much the same with their shiny new buses and RTPI, while little actual change in how they operate.
The CIE companies are still clearly stuck in a 1950's mentality. They think having the last bus from Cork to Dublin being 6pm was good enough or operating to just 11:30 every night will do just fine. They don't seem to realise that Dublin is now a modern European capital, with the highest percentage of people under 30 in Europe and pretty much the silicon valley of Europe with almost every single major IT company having it's European base here.
These young people expect modern, European style, efficient public transport services that service their needs, not what we had in the 1950's. Companies that are focused on their costumer needs and not beholden to the unions. People are frankly sick and tired with the low quality service currently delivered by the CIE companies and are seeing how the private sector can and those deliver far higher quality service (e.g. Luas, Aircoach, Citylink, Dublin Coach, etc.)
DB and the other CIE companies seriously need to pull their heads out of their ass. It is laughable that you think DB actually delivers a good service that is in anyway comparable to European norms.0 -
These are the main areas they need to improve on to come anywhere close to be considered an average european bus operator:
1) Regular services need to run until 12:30, not 11:30 and then a proper 24 hour 7 days a week night service take over.
When I say proper, I mean a regular service, that picks up passengers both inbound and outbound at all stops and charges max €1 over the standard ticket price and all tax saver, monthly tickets etc. work on it.
2) 100% of buses using double or triple doors and ALL doors opened at all stops. No excuses, I've used bus services all over Europe and seriously DB has the worst dwell times I've ever experienced. And not just a little slower, magnitudes slower!
3) Dump the DB ticket machines in the bin, it clearly is a piece of junk. We need fast, well working ticket machines.
We need to move away from any driver interaction at all, it should be tag-on/tag-off.
4) We need to move to true integrated ticketing with Bus/Luas/Dart. We need to get away from the old thinking that DB has, that you are taking a bus journey and move to how people think, that they are making a complete journey from A to B and it should be irrelevant how many buses, Luas and Darts to they take to make it.
can easily be implemented with dublin bus. it will be most likely the NTA implementing it all anyway.All of this stuff is the normal best practise in Europe. And I don't just mean Germany, I was in Poland for the first time 10 years ago and I was blown away by how superior it was back then to even DB is today. I saw there single decker bendy buses with 3 to 4 doors, that opened at every single stop, zero driver interaction, you bought or stamped a paper ticket on a machine on the bus (and tickets are T90 style), very simple, dwell times that were simply astounding, mere seconds per stop, actual timetables at every stop that it actually matched!
for dublin, 2 doors is probably enough for many routes with 3 for the busiest. not 4 though.In fact it is easy to argue that DB service has greatly disimproved recently. Reduced routes, reduced number of buses, reduced capacity, much less nightlink services and all while we have experienced massive fare increases!
thats what happens when you cut the subsidy and don't have measures to encourage bus use. it has to be payed for. if the government aren't willing to pay any more we have to. none of us like it but either way it is going to have to be payed for.I see DB having much the same disease that infects Irish Rail and BE. IR thought that shiny new trains meant their service was now so much better, but in reality it isn't, it is just a shiny lick of paint to try to fool people into thinking that things have improved while in reality they same old union practices are still in place.
what same old union practices. the unions job is to look after their members. ultimately its management of these companies who make the decisians.The CIE companies are still clearly stuck in a 1950's mentality. They think having the last bus from Cork to Dublin being 6pm was good enough or operating to just 11:30 every night will do just fine. They don't seem to realise that Dublin is now a modern European capital, with the highest percentage of people under 30 in Europe and pretty much the silicon valley of Europe with almost every single major IT company having it's European base here.
and how many of these employees would actually use the bus.These young people expect modern, European style, efficient public transport services that service their needs, not what we had in the 1950's.
most people want a bus that gets them from a to b with integrated ticketing. not the shiny bells and whistles.Companies that are focused on their costumer needs and not beholden to the unions.
no company is beholden to the unions. the unions will fight for their members when needed though and rightly so.People are frankly sick and tired with the low quality service currently delivered by the CIE companies and are seeing how the private sector can and those deliver far higher quality service (e.g. Luas, Aircoach, Citylink, Dublin Coach, etc.)
you mean they get you from a to b . luas is the way it is because of its regulatory body, not because of the private sector. Aircoach, Citylink, Dublin Coach are irrelevant to dublin bus as they operate certain selected routes that most likely make them money. they have good motor way infrastructure to help them. i can't see anything much different to irish rail apart from maybe ticketing and coach will tend to be cheeper hence why it has a good market, a market who for the most part wouldn't be using rail anyway, and yes i'm aware some former rail users do use them but how many compared to lets say the car? anything that supposibly could be delivered by the private sector to dublin busses services will most likely be implemented by the NTA and not the operator so if that is the case then the NTA can implement everything you believe should be implemented with the current model.DB and the other CIE companies seriously need to pull their heads out of their ass. It is laughable that you think DB actually delivers a good service that is in anyway comparable to European norms.
i would rather a functional basic public transport system that operates through as much of the day as possible without all the bells and whistles rather then something with all the bells and whistles that may potentially end up being badly implemented.ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.
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With BAC having reduced it's fleet by some 200+ 72 seat vehicles since 2008 and the NTA specified replacements being 67 seat,it can be seen that the overall carrying capacity of BAC is substantially reduced (1,000 Seats).
Ah yes.. but shure it's worth it for free WiFi and Stop announcements right? 50% of which are in a language 99% of passengers don't understand anyway.
Meanwhile they sell off bigger, arguably better buses that go on to several more years of private service
Progress wha?end of the road wrote: »they have to under the EU directives posted above. i agree with you though
Ah the EU.. is there anything they can't do screw up?
Orbital routes are needed yes, but I don't see why they need to get a new operator (which as posted above may not have the depot facilities - and which it seems the NTA/taxpayer? will fund in such cases??) to take them on.
I really don't see why providing a reliable bus service in this city has to be so bloody complicated. It's not rocket science and there's plenty of other models and experiences to draw from! As someone said, when you break it down not much has really changed in 30 years except for shinier (often inferior with each generation) buses, higher fares and reduced services.
If they stopped wasting so much money reinventing the wheel every few years, throwing away perfectly good buses, or buying in/developing half-assed solutions to problems it might be a start - and that's even without even looking at the wages/staffing issues.
No wonder traffic on the M50 is sky-rocketing again.0
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