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Dr Lydia Foy new case.

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    #332
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    PeteFalk78 wrote: »
    Obviously not if he lived as a man, married a woman and fathered 2 children for a good chunk of his life.

    That's simplistic reasoning. Gender is considerably more complicated than whats between somebodys legs.


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    #333
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,155 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    nokia69 wrote: »
    I do feel sorry for the man, if cutting off his cock and balls makes him feel better then more power to him

    but I don't think its right for the state to pander to his delusions

    Yeah that sounds very humane. Sigh.


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    #334
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    nokia69 wrote: »
    pander to his delusions

    Oh dear...you really don't have much of a clue about ths sort of thing do you...


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    #335
    PeteFalk78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 762 ✭✭✭PeteFalk78


    MadsL wrote: »
    What do you think has actually changed with regard to her legal Fatherhood of those children?

    Nothing has changed legally but it seems that she wants to pick and choose when to refer to her as a female. Is she refusing to acknowledge that she lived as a man and fathered two children? Do you want her name to be wiped off the "Name, surname and dwelling place of father" on their birth certificates?


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    #336
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    You know, these kinds of threads just fill me with exasperation, very rarely do people want to even engage in a discussion, they just want to soapbox their prejudices.

    Edit: WHATABOUT WHATABOUTERY?!!?!


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    #337
    PeteFalk78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 762 ✭✭✭PeteFalk78


    Nodin wrote: »
    That's simplistic reasoning. Gender is considerably more complicated than whats between somebodys legs.

    Stop being disingenuous. I'm not talking about genitalia.
    Gender is a range of characteristics that differentiate between masculinity and femininity.
    Do you concede that Foy characterised predominantly masculine traits previous to his gender reassignment?
    So the statement that Foys gender was always female is total garbage.


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    #338
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    PeteFalk78 wrote: »
    Stop being disingenuous. I'm not talking about genitalia.
    Gender is a range of characteristics that differentiate between masculinity and femininity.
    Do you concede that Foy characterised predominantly masculine traits previous to his gender reassignment?
    So the statement that Foys gender was always female is total garbage.


    You'll find that Irish law now sez different. You can refuse to like it all you want.


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    #339
    Chunners
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 424 ✭✭Chunners


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    I understood your point that this won't really impact you as you have a very masculine name, however I was pointing out that AFAIK the mechanism for this change or at least the mechanisms for the legal challenge was that having to produce a birth-cert with a different gender violates you right to privacy, specifically relating to Medical History.

    I see what you mean now, that by showing her birthcert with M on it then it tells everyone that she had gender reassignment which violates her medical history privacy? but as I said it will still have her male name on it so I'm not sure if it will make much difference for a lot of transsexuals with gender specific names on their birthcerts. I mean it's ok if your name was something androgynous like Ashley or Leslie but if your name was Fredrick or Thomas people will know straight away whether it says F or not


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    #340
    PeteFalk78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 762 ✭✭✭PeteFalk78


    Nodin wrote: »
    You'll find that Irish law now sez different. You can refuse to like it all you want.

    Well her marriage cert and childrens birth certs contradict that.


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    #341
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    PeteFalk78 wrote: »
    So the statement that Foys gender was always female is total garbage.

    Unless you have had a very long in depth chat with the good doctor I don't see how you can possibly know. Would knowing yourself to be in yourself female preclude fathering children?


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    #342
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    PeteFalk78 wrote: »
    Well her marriage cert and childrens birth certs contradict that.

    I don't believe my marriage cert states if I am male or female. And my daughter's birth cert has a space for Father's Name.

    How would either of these documents contradict a re-issued birth cert in the name "Lydia"?


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    #343
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A quick glance at a birth certificate and I don't see any use of the word "gender" on it.


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    #344
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    PeteFalk78 wrote: »
    Well her marriage cert and childrens birth certs contradict that.


    This was explained on the previous page.


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    #345
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    PeteFalk78 wrote: »
    Well her marriage cert and childrens birth certs contradict that.

    Go make yourself a cup of tea and have a think about it.

    Fair play to Dr. Foy, she's campaigned long and hard for this.

    And to all the trans people that might feel like they're banging your head against the wall with comments like this, you're not. You are making a difference, you're educating people(even though you shouldn't have to!).

    Keep up the good work Links &Co.


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    #346
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    nokia69 wrote: »
    .

    I just reported that post. I don't see any need for that video. You clearly have run out of any attempt at a serious discussion.


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    #347
    PeteFalk78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 762 ✭✭✭PeteFalk78


    Deleted User wrote: »
    A quick glance at a birth certificate and I don't see any use of the word "gender" on it.

    It actually says "Sex". So I wonder what did Foy actually get changed on her birth cert.


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    #348
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    PeteFalk78 wrote: »
    It actually says "Sex". So I wonder what did Foy actually get changed on her birth cert.

    Does that really have to be spelled out to you?


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    #349
    Earl Turner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 151 ✭✭Earl Turner


    MadsL wrote: »
    I just reported that post. I don't see any need for that video. You clearly have run out of any attempt at a serious discussion.

    What was the video. Sorry think it's been deleted.


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    #350
    Earl Turner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 151 ✭✭Earl Turner


    MadsL wrote: »
    I just reported that post. I don't see any need for that video. You clearly have run out of any attempt at a serious discussion.

    What was the video? Sorry think it's been deleted.


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    #351
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    MadsL wrote: »
    I just reported that post. I don't see any need for that video. You clearly have run out of any attempt at a serious discussion.

    do you report all the posts that disagree with your point of view

    well done


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    #352
    PeteFalk78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 762 ✭✭✭PeteFalk78


    MadsL wrote: »
    Does that really have to be spelled out to you?

    Please do.


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    #353
    Earl Turner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 151 ✭✭Earl Turner


    He/she was still born a man though. Don't see how that can be denied.


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    #354
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    nokia69 wrote: »
    do you report all the posts that disagree with your point of view

    well done

    I report posts that break the site rules. No Trolling is a site rule, if you have any questions about that, then PM the mods.


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    #355
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    PeteFalk78 wrote: »
    Please do.

    I already have in an earlier post which outlines what the Gender Recognition Bill will cover.


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    #356
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    MadsL wrote: »
    I report posts that break the site rules. No Trolling is a site rule, if you have any questions about that, then PM the mods.

    I'm not trolling

    I don't see anything wrong with the video

    its a fair representation of you and links ect

    its interesting that you think people with different views are just trolling, you claim to be tolerant but you can't abide people with different opinions


  • Options
    #357
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    The key argument here is what you consider the birth certificate to be. For many it is a statement of fact regarding the particulars of a child at birth. This was the original argument made by the state.

    The counter argument was that this would violate a persons right to medical privacy since what would be written on this would not correspond to a persons identified gender.

    While some might see any changes to the particulars on a birth cert are an attempt to rewrite history, you have to ask who does this harm or why stand in the way. The changing of this data will affect no one other than the individual in question. This is unlike changing someone's date of birth (as some have argued where a persons age confers certain rights and responsibilities.


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    #358
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MadsL wrote: »
    Does that really have to be spelled out to you?
    Well you seem to be using "gender" and "sex" interchangeably:
    MadsL wrote: »
    What is oxymoronic about showing the correct gender on an official state record?

    As for a settlement, the way the State has jerked her around she would deserve every penny as a trailblazer.
    MadsL wrote: »
    Foy was born with male genitalia, but born with a female GENDER. That is why they call it gender reassignment. Her Birth Certificate has been corrected.

    Is this really hard to grasp?
    MadsL wrote: »
    Which is a more important 'truth' Dr Lydia Foy is a woman or Dr Lydia Foy was born and assigned the gender of male?

    If the latter, why is it your or anyone else's concern?

    Doesn't it make more sense to have all official documents telling the truth as it stands now.


  • Options
    #359
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    nokia69 wrote: »
    I'm not trolling

    I don't see anything wrong with the video

    its a fair representation of you and links ect

    its interesting that you think people with different views are just trolling, you claim to be tolerant but you can't abide people with different opinions

    I didn't delete your video, a mod did. I'm not a mod. I suggest you PM the mods about it. And that's all I will say on it as I am close to breaking another site rule.


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    #360
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Well you seem to be using "gender" and "sex" interchangeably:

    I'd argue that the State Record is using the term incorrectly.
    http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/

    Since my friend had the sex of male foisted on him as a child he never was able to correctly identify his gender in a way that was comfortable for him.

    There persists no way of legal being a third gender of neither male nor female.


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    #361
    Teyla Emmagan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    I am delighted for Lydia Foy. Brave woman for sticking to her principles and conviction that she deserves to be recognised for who she really is. It is always hard to be the first to break a barrier, I hope this victory will bring great happiness to other transgender people in her position.


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