A4 Racing

JK.BMC · 20-10-2014 11:33pm

I would encourage anybody interested in racing to give it a go, but only after you have served your time with a group of experienced racers in a training group or done the hard graft of learning from league racing. Just turning up on a sexy bike and a bunch of impressive watts is probably not the best approach. I understand totally the apprehension of the first time racer; I was the same starting out. I was cycling for many years but only by spending time with a good group of racing heads will you get a sense of whats required. It is probably the way to go. The internet is limited in what it can communicate in terms of real experience - my first A4 race was held in a snow storm; twas brilliant because I set out just to finish and keep out of trouble, so it was a win of sorts to do so in those conditions.

In reality, the A4 grade is a starting point. There should be minimum entry level for open racing and A4 is the place. Winning at every level takes serious effort. If you never start you will never win. But if you think winning is what its all about, then maybe its not for you.

A4 racing sometimes suffers from over-analysis I think.

RobFowl · 20-10-2014 11:58pm

A4 racing is a bit more prone to crashes that other cats IMO but only a bit. Cycling is a great sport but with some risks (as with all sports!). Personally I think no one should open race with being a member of a club and has got used to riding in a group and ideally tried a few club races. Club races though are getting less frequent and more akin to open races though for many reasons so simply isn't an option for man riders.
Club spins though are relatively common and if you can comfortably ride in those (believe me if you can't ride safely in those others with not hesitate to tell you !) A4 is the way to go.
I think every cyclist should at least try racing at some stage and FWIW have crashed a few times racing but never in an A4 one......

12 sprocket · 21-10-2014 7:58am

JK.BMC wrote: »

I would encourage anybody interested in racing to give it a go, but only after you have served your time with a group of experienced racers in a training group or done the hard graft of learning from league racing. Just turning up on a sexy bike and a bunch of impressive watts is probably not the best approach. I understand totally the apprehension of the first time racer; I was the same starting out. I was cycling for many years but only by spending time with a good group of racing heads will you get a sense of whats required. It is probably the way to go. The internet is limited in what it can communicate in terms of real experience - my first A4 race was held in a snow storm; twas brilliant because I set out just to finish and keep out of trouble, so it was a win of sorts to do so in those conditions.

In reality, the A4 grade is a starting point. There should be minimum entry level for open racing and A4 is the place. Winning at every level takes serious effort. If you never start you will never win. But if you think winning is what its all about, then maybe its not for you.

A4 racing sometimes suffers from over-analysis I think.

THis post and the next post by Rob Fowler are two very sensible posts and if new riders followed those routes or were compelled to follow them A4 races would probably be quiet safe.. There is no doubt that a cyclist who hasn't ridden in groups with experienced cyclists before entering any race is not a safe cyclist to have in a race.

dermabrasion · 21-10-2014 2:46pm

It is great fun. Thats why we keep on coming back. Really looking forward to Traders Cup, where it all starts again!

Harrybelafonte · 21-10-2014 2:47pm

dermabrasion wrote: »

It is great fun. Thats why we keep on coming back. Really looking forward to Traders Cup, where it all starts again!

Ned Flanagan?

dermabrasion · 21-10-2014 2:50pm

No, never did that. Shudda said where I kick off the season (ie. Dundalk)

CramCycle · 21-10-2014 3:19pm

Can't wait to get back myself after the year off.

daragh_ · 21-10-2014 3:27pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Can't wait to get back myself after the year off.

You are A3. Get your own thread

CramCycle · 21-10-2014 3:58pm

daragh_ wrote: »

You are A3. Get your own thread

Can I not downgrade? I was going to apply to the grading officer on the basis I upgraded with the amnesty and clearly am not ready as well as having a year off. Want to get upgraded on my own steam this time.

Harrybelafonte · 21-10-2014 5:43pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Can I not downgrade? I was going to apply to the grading officer on the basis I upgraded with the amnesty and clearly am not ready as well as having a year off. Want to get upgraded on my own steam this time.

There aren't enough races for all of us who want to do that!

See no reason for not letting you got A4 again.

CramCycle · 21-10-2014 5:51pm

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

There aren't enough races for all of us who want to do that!
See no reason for not letting you got A4 again.

Bu fatherhood and tiredness mean I no longer have the energy for the free 20km I was getting by going up to A3, suppose I will see how the training goes before I attempt to get downgraded

Beasty · 21-10-2014 7:10pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Can I not downgrade? I was going to apply to the grading officer on the basis I upgraded with the amnesty and clearly am not ready as well as having a year off. Want to get upgraded on my own steam this time.

Downgradimg should certainly not be optional. The rules this year only permitted upgrade at the option of the rider. The fact you chose to upgrade should not give you an easy option back unless you can make a convincing case as to why you should be downgraded. Otherwise it makes a mockery of the whole grading system as over time riders can effectively pick and choose whichever category suits them (as opposed to their ability) (assuming the proposal to continue with the optional upgrade gets through the AGM)

De Bhál · 21-10-2014 7:24pm

Just out of interest, what was the reason for bringing in optional upgrading and when did it happen?

Lusk_Doyle · 21-10-2014 7:48pm

Beasty wrote: »

Downgradimg should certainly not be optional. The rules this year only permitted upgrade at the option of the rider. The fact you chose to upgrade should not give you an easy option back unless you can make a convincing case as to why you should be downgraded. Otherwise it makes a mockery of the whole grading system as over time riders can effectively pick and choose whichever category suits them (as opposed to their ability) (assuming the proposal to continue with the optional upgrade gets through the AGM)

What if you have a long term injury and need to effectively start again?

Lusk_Doyle · 21-10-2014 7:50pm

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Ned Flanagan?

That's first up indeed. Won the prime there the year before last after a nice break with Hmmzis and a three others after a successful bridge over to him. He certainly learnt a few lessons that day!

Beasty · 21-10-2014 8:09pm

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

What if you have a long term injury and need to effectively start again?

That's where you can make your case to the grading officer. Simply opting out for a year should not, in my view, be a valid reason for seeking a downgrade. If though someone can validly say they have missed a year due to injury, perhaps they should still do a couple of races to see how they get on in the higher category before being allowed to make such a request.

I know it's a different scenario but I'm not expecting the IVCA to downgrade me next year (despite never really having done anything to justify my original upgrade), as I hope to come back as strong as I was last year. If though I'm struggling in the early races (which could easily be the case given the nature of my injuries), I would then hope they would look kindly on a request for a downgrade. If I then dominated at the new level I would expect a rapid upgrade and quite a few dirty looks from certain competitors ....

Beasty · 21-10-2014 8:14pm

De Bhál wrote: »

Just out of interest, what was the reason for bringing in optional upgrading and when did it happen?

It happened at the 2012 AGM and was originally intended as an interim measure pending a wider grading review.

I understand the grading system had been changed in 2011 with juniors being restricted to A3, which caused a bit of a regrading log-jam. A proposal was therefore made to "facilitate a quicker move through the categories".

The 2013 AGM allowed this to continue, but only for applications made up to 31 December 2013

Orwell Wheelers have put forward a motion to next week's AGM that would make this change permanent

Hmmzis · 21-10-2014 8:28pm

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

That's first up indeed. Won the prime there the year before last after a nice break with Hmmzis and a three others after a successful bridge over to him. He certainly learnt a few lessons that day!

Yeah, I remember that race well. I think the biggest lessons from there were to HTFU and to spread out the efforts more evenly. Similar tactics with better timing worked far better this year (for the two A4 races I did).

Harrybelafonte · 22-10-2014 9:02am

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

That's first up indeed. Won the prime there the year before last after a nice break with Hmmzis and a three others after a successful bridge over to him. He certainly learnt a few lessons that day!

I really like that race. Dropped pretty quickly last year, but held on this year, so was a boost for first race of the year.

@Beasty: I see your point re downgrading, but whether it's injury or a year out, there's very little difference. Fitness could be affected equally. If you're strong you'll get moved to A3 no problem.

CramCycle · 22-10-2014 9:41am

@Beasty: I see your point re downgrading, but whether it's injury or a year out, there's very little difference. Fitness could be affected equally. If you're strong you'll get moved to A3 no problem.

The thinking was A4 was introductory only and that fitness had nothing to do with it, I can't remember the exact phrasing at the AGM but the idea was once you had spent a season or two there you should be allowed upgrade as you had learned all you needed too. The unfortunate thing is with the Juniors held in A3 it rarely feels like a technical step up but more a leap. In my eyes though A4, for whatever it was technically meant to be, it is now simply another category that is below A3 and not an intro/beginners category.

I am not against the idea that someone put forward last year or the year before that clubs should sign off on capability which means at the very least, all racers would have a few club spins and potentially a few club league races under their belt. Potentially unfair to the riders who are un-attached but more fair to those who have put in the training and learned the skills.

fortis · 24-10-2014 2:03pm

Beasty wrote: »

Downgradimg should certainly not be optional. The rules this year only permitted upgrade at the option of the rider. The fact you chose to upgrade should not give you an easy option back unless you can make a convincing case as to why you should be downgraded. Otherwise it makes a mockery of the whole grading system as over time riders can effectively pick and choose whichever category suits them (as opposed to their ability) (assuming the proposal to continue with the optional upgrade gets through the AGM)

Same as the current system allows some A2 riders (45+) to downgrade to A3 every season and refuse to take an upgrade (50+) even when they have earned the points! They can do this year in year out under the current system

Ya, making a mockery of the whole grading system springs to mind alright!

Harrybelafonte · 24-10-2014 9:33pm

Part of me thinks that it's hilarious that even out of season we just can't help but bitch about all this stuff. Think it's time to concentrate on training.

D33 · 26-10-2014 8:15pm

Sorry to hijack lads, but is Ned F the 1st A4 race of the season in Feb?

Harrybelafonte · 26-10-2014 8:29pm

D33 wrote: »

Sorry to hijack lads, but is Ned F the 1st A4 race of the season in Feb?

The last two years it has been.

Lusk_Doyle · 26-10-2014 8:40pm

D33 wrote: »

Sorry to hijack lads, but is Ned F the 1st A4 race of the season in Feb?

It's not an A4 race. It's a CP of all cats.

RobFowl · 26-10-2014 9:05pm

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

It's not an A4 race. It's a CP of all cats.

And the final draft of the calendar hasn't been published yet so we simply don't know for sure ....

Harrybelafonte · 26-10-2014 9:09pm

What's CP?

Lusk_Doyle · 26-10-2014 9:11pm

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

What's CP?

A4 group is off first and then chased by A3 and then A2 and then A1 or a combination of A2&1 depending on the numbers.

Harrybelafonte · 26-10-2014 9:24pm

Ok, I'll stand by what I said above. Last two years it's been a separate A4 race.

Lusk_Doyle · 26-10-2014 10:14pm

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Ok, I'll stand by what I said above. Last two years it's been a separate A4 race.

Oh. Didn't do this year but thought the previous was a CP.

Edit: Just checked my Strava records. Defo a CP in February 2013.

Harrybelafonte · 26-10-2014 10:28pm

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Oh. Didn't do this year but thought the previous was a CP.

Edit: Just checked my Strava records. Defo a CP in February 2013.

Ok, not my memory of it. Obviously I could be wrong.

Lusk_Doyle · 26-10-2014 10:31pm

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Ok, not my memory of it. Obviously I could be wrong.

I remember it well. Got away in a break until just after the right turn after the intermediate sprint, maybe 10 or 15kms from the end when we were mopped up by the rest of the race. I believe that the scratch group or some of it got sent the wrong way at one point also during that race.

Harrybelafonte · 26-10-2014 10:35pm

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

I remember it well. Got away in a break until just after the right turn after the intermediate sprint, maybe 10 or 15kms from the end when we were mopped up by the rest of the race. I believe that the scratch group or some of it got sent the wrong way at one point also during that race.

Yep, you're right. I just remembered being caught by the A3s sorry. I could be totally wrong about last year now too. Sorry.

wav1 · 26-10-2014 10:40pm

A4 race only for the first time in 2014 due to the new rule re 140 max riders in CP races inc A4s.Will be same in 2015.
Draft should be nailed down this week..

Solobally8 · 27-10-2014 12:01am

Ned Flanagan was my first race. We were put in with the A3s as there wasnt enough women for a separate race. A1s and 2s were off first then the A3s and then A4s. Total shock to my system to be in with the A3s. Lasted about 10kms before being shot out the back. Hopped on to the A4s for a while and was turfed out the back of them too. Loved it, couldnt wait for more!

A4 Racing

Comments