A4 Racing

Beasty · 20-10-2014 8:39am

Daroxtar wrote: »

Is A4 really that bad? This thread has put me right off. Might look into the Vets, although that makes me feel old. Thanks Boards.ie.

If you really want putting off you can perhaps look forward to Masters racing - only available to A4s aged 50 or more.....

J Madone · 20-10-2014 8:41am

Beasty wrote: »

If you really want putting off you can perhaps look forward to Masters racing - only available to A4s aged 50 or more.....

Heard that's the dangerous category beasty

Daroxtar · 20-10-2014 9:08am

Beasty wrote: »

If you really want putting off you can perhaps look forward to Masters racing - only available to A4s aged 50 or more.....

Over 50s? Sure them auld lads would only be tipping along. Can you use tricycles in that?

Harrybelafonte · 20-10-2014 9:19am

Daroxtar wrote: »

Over 50s? Sure them auld lads would only be tipping along. Can you use tricycles in that?

With that attitude, it sounds like you'd fit right in with the A4s

Daroxtar · 20-10-2014 9:29am

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

With that attitude, it sounds like you'd fit right in with the A4s

Touche

Junior · 20-10-2014 2:50pm

Daroxtar wrote: »

Is A4 really that bad? This thread has put me right off. Might look into the Vets, although that makes me feel old. Thanks Boards.ie.

No.

Beasty · 20-10-2014 4:18pm

Daroxtar wrote: »

Over 50s? Sure them auld lads would only be tipping along. Can you use tricycles in that?

Definitely an issue of remembering what was going on but the Garmin tells me last time I did one of those races I was trundling along at 50 km/h and 3 seconds later I had come to "rest".....

dermabrasion · 20-10-2014 7:48pm

Daroxtar wrote: »

Over 50s? Sure them auld lads would only be tipping along. Can you use tricycles in that?

Oh dear! I thought we were safe when Pawlie made his way up to A3.

Welshkev · 20-10-2014 8:53pm

Daroxtar wrote: »

Is A4 really that bad? This thread has put me right off. Might look into the Vets, although that makes me feel old. Thanks Boards.ie.

Absolutely nowhere near as bad as is being made out here.

Harrybelafonte · 20-10-2014 9:03pm

Kevinleeowen wrote: »

Absolutely nowhere near as bad as is being made out here.

Your experiences may not match that of others here. It's not just that there are crashes, it's the reason for them. Yes, there's a lot of moaning after races and sometimes it may be petty but there's no point covering up the fact that 80% of the races I've been in over the last two years, 25 in total, have had crashes.

JK.BMC · 20-10-2014 11:33pm

I would encourage anybody interested in racing to give it a go, but only after you have served your time with a group of experienced racers in a training group or done the hard graft of learning from league racing. Just turning up on a sexy bike and a bunch of impressive watts is probably not the best approach. I understand totally the apprehension of the first time racer; I was the same starting out. I was cycling for many years but only by spending time with a good group of racing heads will you get a sense of whats required. It is probably the way to go. The internet is limited in what it can communicate in terms of real experience - my first A4 race was held in a snow storm; twas brilliant because I set out just to finish and keep out of trouble, so it was a win of sorts to do so in those conditions.

In reality, the A4 grade is a starting point. There should be minimum entry level for open racing and A4 is the place. Winning at every level takes serious effort. If you never start you will never win. But if you think winning is what its all about, then maybe its not for you.

A4 racing sometimes suffers from over-analysis I think.

RobFowl · 20-10-2014 11:58pm

A4 racing is a bit more prone to crashes that other cats IMO but only a bit. Cycling is a great sport but with some risks (as with all sports!). Personally I think no one should open race with being a member of a club and has got used to riding in a group and ideally tried a few club races. Club races though are getting less frequent and more akin to open races though for many reasons so simply isn't an option for man riders.
Club spins though are relatively common and if you can comfortably ride in those (believe me if you can't ride safely in those others with not hesitate to tell you !) A4 is the way to go.
I think every cyclist should at least try racing at some stage and FWIW have crashed a few times racing but never in an A4 one......

12 sprocket · 21-10-2014 7:58am

JK.BMC wrote: »

I would encourage anybody interested in racing to give it a go, but only after you have served your time with a group of experienced racers in a training group or done the hard graft of learning from league racing. Just turning up on a sexy bike and a bunch of impressive watts is probably not the best approach. I understand totally the apprehension of the first time racer; I was the same starting out. I was cycling for many years but only by spending time with a good group of racing heads will you get a sense of whats required. It is probably the way to go. The internet is limited in what it can communicate in terms of real experience - my first A4 race was held in a snow storm; twas brilliant because I set out just to finish and keep out of trouble, so it was a win of sorts to do so in those conditions.

In reality, the A4 grade is a starting point. There should be minimum entry level for open racing and A4 is the place. Winning at every level takes serious effort. If you never start you will never win. But if you think winning is what its all about, then maybe its not for you.

A4 racing sometimes suffers from over-analysis I think.

THis post and the next post by Rob Fowler are two very sensible posts and if new riders followed those routes or were compelled to follow them A4 races would probably be quiet safe.. There is no doubt that a cyclist who hasn't ridden in groups with experienced cyclists before entering any race is not a safe cyclist to have in a race.

dermabrasion · 21-10-2014 2:46pm

It is great fun. Thats why we keep on coming back. Really looking forward to Traders Cup, where it all starts again!

Harrybelafonte · 21-10-2014 2:47pm

dermabrasion wrote: »

It is great fun. Thats why we keep on coming back. Really looking forward to Traders Cup, where it all starts again!

Ned Flanagan?

dermabrasion · 21-10-2014 2:50pm

No, never did that. Shudda said where I kick off the season (ie. Dundalk)

CramCycle · 21-10-2014 3:19pm

Can't wait to get back myself after the year off.

daragh_ · 21-10-2014 3:27pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Can't wait to get back myself after the year off.

You are A3. Get your own thread

CramCycle · 21-10-2014 3:58pm

daragh_ wrote: »

You are A3. Get your own thread

Can I not downgrade? I was going to apply to the grading officer on the basis I upgraded with the amnesty and clearly am not ready as well as having a year off. Want to get upgraded on my own steam this time.

Harrybelafonte · 21-10-2014 5:43pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Can I not downgrade? I was going to apply to the grading officer on the basis I upgraded with the amnesty and clearly am not ready as well as having a year off. Want to get upgraded on my own steam this time.

There aren't enough races for all of us who want to do that!

See no reason for not letting you got A4 again.

CramCycle · 21-10-2014 5:51pm

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

There aren't enough races for all of us who want to do that!
See no reason for not letting you got A4 again.

Bu fatherhood and tiredness mean I no longer have the energy for the free 20km I was getting by going up to A3, suppose I will see how the training goes before I attempt to get downgraded

Beasty · 21-10-2014 7:10pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Can I not downgrade? I was going to apply to the grading officer on the basis I upgraded with the amnesty and clearly am not ready as well as having a year off. Want to get upgraded on my own steam this time.

Downgradimg should certainly not be optional. The rules this year only permitted upgrade at the option of the rider. The fact you chose to upgrade should not give you an easy option back unless you can make a convincing case as to why you should be downgraded. Otherwise it makes a mockery of the whole grading system as over time riders can effectively pick and choose whichever category suits them (as opposed to their ability) (assuming the proposal to continue with the optional upgrade gets through the AGM)

De Bhál · 21-10-2014 7:24pm

Just out of interest, what was the reason for bringing in optional upgrading and when did it happen?

Lusk_Doyle · 21-10-2014 7:48pm

Beasty wrote: »

Downgradimg should certainly not be optional. The rules this year only permitted upgrade at the option of the rider. The fact you chose to upgrade should not give you an easy option back unless you can make a convincing case as to why you should be downgraded. Otherwise it makes a mockery of the whole grading system as over time riders can effectively pick and choose whichever category suits them (as opposed to their ability) (assuming the proposal to continue with the optional upgrade gets through the AGM)

What if you have a long term injury and need to effectively start again?

Lusk_Doyle · 21-10-2014 7:50pm

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Ned Flanagan?

That's first up indeed. Won the prime there the year before last after a nice break with Hmmzis and a three others after a successful bridge over to him. He certainly learnt a few lessons that day!

Beasty · 21-10-2014 8:09pm

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

What if you have a long term injury and need to effectively start again?

That's where you can make your case to the grading officer. Simply opting out for a year should not, in my view, be a valid reason for seeking a downgrade. If though someone can validly say they have missed a year due to injury, perhaps they should still do a couple of races to see how they get on in the higher category before being allowed to make such a request.

I know it's a different scenario but I'm not expecting the IVCA to downgrade me next year (despite never really having done anything to justify my original upgrade), as I hope to come back as strong as I was last year. If though I'm struggling in the early races (which could easily be the case given the nature of my injuries), I would then hope they would look kindly on a request for a downgrade. If I then dominated at the new level I would expect a rapid upgrade and quite a few dirty looks from certain competitors ....

Beasty · 21-10-2014 8:14pm

De Bhál wrote: »

Just out of interest, what was the reason for bringing in optional upgrading and when did it happen?

It happened at the 2012 AGM and was originally intended as an interim measure pending a wider grading review.

I understand the grading system had been changed in 2011 with juniors being restricted to A3, which caused a bit of a regrading log-jam. A proposal was therefore made to "facilitate a quicker move through the categories".

The 2013 AGM allowed this to continue, but only for applications made up to 31 December 2013

Orwell Wheelers have put forward a motion to next week's AGM that would make this change permanent

Hmmzis · 21-10-2014 8:28pm

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

That's first up indeed. Won the prime there the year before last after a nice break with Hmmzis and a three others after a successful bridge over to him. He certainly learnt a few lessons that day!

Yeah, I remember that race well. I think the biggest lessons from there were to HTFU and to spread out the efforts more evenly. Similar tactics with better timing worked far better this year (for the two A4 races I did).

Harrybelafonte · 22-10-2014 9:02am

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

That's first up indeed. Won the prime there the year before last after a nice break with Hmmzis and a three others after a successful bridge over to him. He certainly learnt a few lessons that day!

I really like that race. Dropped pretty quickly last year, but held on this year, so was a boost for first race of the year.

@Beasty: I see your point re downgrading, but whether it's injury or a year out, there's very little difference. Fitness could be affected equally. If you're strong you'll get moved to A3 no problem.

CramCycle · 22-10-2014 9:41am

@Beasty: I see your point re downgrading, but whether it's injury or a year out, there's very little difference. Fitness could be affected equally. If you're strong you'll get moved to A3 no problem.

The thinking was A4 was introductory only and that fitness had nothing to do with it, I can't remember the exact phrasing at the AGM but the idea was once you had spent a season or two there you should be allowed upgrade as you had learned all you needed too. The unfortunate thing is with the Juniors held in A3 it rarely feels like a technical step up but more a leap. In my eyes though A4, for whatever it was technically meant to be, it is now simply another category that is below A3 and not an intro/beginners category.

I am not against the idea that someone put forward last year or the year before that clubs should sign off on capability which means at the very least, all racers would have a few club spins and potentially a few club league races under their belt. Potentially unfair to the riders who are un-attached but more fair to those who have put in the training and learned the skills.

A4 Racing

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