Mayo GAA Discussion Thread

Defiler Of The Coffin · 05-09-2014 6:46pm

FaganJr wrote: »

There is an issue with the players and as such McStay will never get the job as long as he's involved!

What issue?

realweirdo · 06-09-2014 2:55am

GBXI wrote: »

What are you on about? Connelly was assistant manager of an AI winning Mayo U21 team in 06. And as I pointed out above, he is heavily involved with Mayo football whereas McStay is not. Connelly's credentials way out-weigh McStay's at at this point in time.

Ah come on now. There's is a massive difference between senior and under 21.

The senior set ups of the big counties are massive these days, almost akin to EPL professional soccer teams.

Strength and conditioning is huge in senior.

A lot of managers have won at under 21 level but struggled at senior level.

We need a proven manager at senior club or county level, and certainly not an assistant manager.

If Connelly gets a job as a manager he can prove himself there, preferably at a club.

Throwing him in as county senior manager is a big gamble. We don't need someone learning on the job.

I'm a bit mystified about who these players are that have issues with McHale. There's no reason for any player to have any issue with any of the management staff if they are doing their stuff on the field. If they aren't doing their stuff then its their problem if they have "issues" with management, not management's fault. Any player that's not prepared to walk through walls to wear the Mayo jersey and has "issues" shouldn't be welcome.

It's not an x factor popularity contest.

I've also never read anything in McHale's newspaper articles that weren't reasonably honest and fair in their assessment. The role of a commentator is to tell it as it is, not sugar coat it, so people aren't offended.

Coillte_Bhoy · 06-09-2014 3:25pm

FaganJr wrote: »

There is an issue with the players and as such McStay will never get the job as long as he's involved!

What issue exactly? people are constantly going on about this but dont know what they are talking about really.

Loafing Oaf · 06-09-2014 6:45pm

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

What issue exactly? people are constantly going on about this but dont know what they are talking about really.

His penchant for incorporating basketball lingo into GAA talk and David Brent-type 'power of positive thinking' guff...well that's what irritates me about him.:P

FaganJr · 06-09-2014 7:02pm

Hardly gonna come out on the tinternet and spell it out for ye. he won't get the job with him.

MaroonAndGreen · 06-09-2014 8:07pm

FaganJr wrote: »

Hardly gonna come out on the tinternet and spell it out for ye. he won't get the job with him.

Thanks for that confirmation that you havent a clue. There is absolutley NO reason why you wouldnt just say it if you actually knew

FaganJr · 06-09-2014 9:53pm

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Thanks for that confirmation that you havent a clue. There is absolutley NO reason why you wouldnt just say it if you actually knew

Time will tell, Son, Time will tell!

Da Shins Kelly · 07-09-2014 4:28pm

Has Jack O'Connor expressed any interest in the job? I assume he'll probably say nothing until the minor final is over, but people are mentioning him as if he'd definitely be up for it.

If he is interested, I think he'd be a good choice.

Boom__Boom · 07-09-2014 4:58pm

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Has Jack O'Connor expressed any interest in the job? I assume he'll probably say nothing until the minor final is over, but people are mentioning him as if he'd definitely be up for it.

If he is interested, I think he'd be a good choice.

There's no way he's remotely interested.

He has a 2 year term with the Kerry minors and next year's minors are reckoned to be a strong batch as well.

That's before you go near the logistics of appointing a manager who lives in Cahersiveen.

TCDStudent1 · 07-09-2014 11:55pm

realweirdo wrote: »

Ah come on now. There's is a massive difference between senior and under 21.

The senior set ups of the big counties are massive these days, almost akin to EPL professional soccer teams.

Strength and conditioning is huge in senior.

A lot of managers have won at under 21 level but struggled at senior level.

We need a proven manager at senior club or county level, and certainly not an assistant manager.

If Connelly gets a job as a manager he can prove himself there, preferably at a club.

Throwing him in as county senior manager is a big gamble. We don't need someone learning on the job.

I'm a bit mystified about who these players are that have issues with McHale. There's no reason for any player to have any issue with any of the management staff if they are doing their stuff on the field. If they aren't doing their stuff then its their problem if they have "issues" with management, not management's fault. Any player that's not prepared to walk through walls to wear the Mayo jersey and has "issues" shouldn't be welcome.

It's not an x factor popularity contest.

I've also never read anything in McHale's newspaper articles that weren't reasonably honest and fair in their assessment. The role of a commentator is to tell it as it is, not sugar coat it, so people aren't offended.

You are correct - there is a massive difference between U21 and Senior.

However, there is also a massive difference between managing a club team and a county team. At club level, a manager is dealing with a group of players that have grown up together, gone to school together, played football on a regular basis together. At county level, you are getting the best players from different clubs; trying to mould them into a team. For example, the 3 best half backs in the county may not necessarily be your best half back line.

Managing a club v managing a county are very different challenges.

In saying that, I think the best bet is to appoint somebody who is actively involved at club level in Mayo. A few years ago, there was a player from my club - everybody raved about him and he played at underage county level. Everybody was waiting for him to move it up a level to senior county level. However, I noticed in club matches that he ALWAYS failed when he came up against an inter-county defender. He just didnt seem to have that extra edge to compete with those guys. He eventually got a chance at senior county level but it was short lived as his performances werent good enough. I knew of that guys failings cos he played for my club - I would not be familiar with similar guys from other clubs (I'd probably be saying that guy realy should be given a chance for the county). I think any perspective manager should be aware of those kind of players all over the county. And that suggests that the best guy for the job would be somebody involved at club level.

I have no idea about Mayo club football and no idea about how involved Connelly is. My concern about McStay is that he is simply not that involved in Mayo football. As such, he may just see the job as using the same panel and not actually changing a whole lot.

Furthering my point, I have heard that Horan almost acted as a facilitator, i.e. getting the best back up team and delegating tasks. He takes a somewhat hands off approach leaving the experts in his back up team get on with it. I have heard similar things about Jim Gavin. This is another reason why I think it is really essential to know all the players in the county as well as you can.

realweirdo · 08-09-2014 2:12am

I know plenty of people actively involved in club football in mayo. And a lot of them are tactically naive. Its no use bringing together the best 30 players in a county if you don't know how to use them.

Saying McHale and McStay don't about mayo football at any level is completely ludicrous. These guys know Mayo football inside out.

GBXI · 08-09-2014 10:08am

realweirdo wrote: »

Ah come on now. There's is a massive difference between senior and under 21.

The senior set ups of the big counties are massive these days, almost akin to EPL professional soccer teams.

Strength and conditioning is huge in senior.

A lot of managers have won at under 21 level but struggled at senior level.

We need a proven manager at senior club or county level, and certainly not an assistant manager.

If Connelly gets a job as a manager he can prove himself there, preferably at a club.

Throwing him in as county senior manager is a big gamble. We don't need someone learning on the job.

I'm a bit mystified about who these players are that have issues with McHale. There's no reason for any player to have any issue with any of the management staff if they are doing their stuff on the field. If they aren't doing their stuff then its their problem if they have "issues" with management, not management's fault. Any player that's not prepared to walk through walls to wear the Mayo jersey and has "issues" shouldn't be welcome.

It's not an x factor popularity contest.

I've also never read anything in McHale's newspaper articles that weren't reasonably honest and fair in their assessment. The role of a commentator is to tell it as it is, not sugar coat it, so people aren't offended.

You're not making a very strong argument here. Connelly is proving himself at club level, doing very well with Hollymount. He is also, as I said, heavily involved with Mayo football at U19 and U20 level development squads. He knows Mayo football and knows the players well. Not to mention the backbone of the current County team is made up of his and Holmes AI winning U21 team. Jim McGuinness and Eamon Fitzmaurice both managed their counties U21 teams before moving onto the senior team - they haven't exactly been poor managers since getting the big job.

Conversely McStay is not heavily involved with Mayo football, I could be wrong here, but I don't think he has had any recent involvement. I'd also bet there are players on the current panel whose names he wouldn't know. McStay for me, and I will happily support him if he gets the job, is a lot bigger gamble than Connelly for the above mentioned reasons.

WesternZulu · 08-09-2014 1:21pm

Why do they necessarily have to be familiar with club football?

For all intents and purposes the core team will be the same as the last few years.

New blood need to be brought in but these lads will are already well known and come from the underage set up like Duirmaid O'Connor, Connor O'Shea, and Stephen Coen.

The Buster · 08-09-2014 1:24pm

WesternZulu wrote: »

New blood need to be brought in but these lads will are already well known and come from the underage set up like Duirmaid O'Connor, Connor O'Shea, and Stephen Coen.

Not just these lads. They are on the panel and obvious to whoever takes over that they need to be considered but what about the 20 or 30 players who are outside the panel. They need to be considered and they would not be known to someone who is not involved in club football

MaroonAndGreen · 08-09-2014 2:25pm

GBXI wrote: »

You're not making a very strong argument here. Connelly is proving himself at club level, doing very well with Hollymount. He is also, as I said, heavily involved with Mayo football at U19 and U20 level development squads. He knows Mayo football and knows the players well. Not to mention the backbone of the current County team is made up of his and Holmes AI winning U21 team. Jim McGuinness and Eamon Fitzmaurice both managed their counties U21 teams before moving onto the senior team - they haven't exactly been poor managers since getting the big job.

Conversely McStay is not heavily involved with Mayo football, I could be wrong here, but I don't think he has had any recent involvement. I'd also bet there are players on the current panel whose names he wouldn't know. McStay for me, and I will happily support him if he gets the job, is a lot bigger gamble than Connelly for the above mentioned reasons.

We can judge that at the end of the Intermediate Championship. With the teams left in it, Hollymount really should be winning it this year.

Fr Tod Umptious · 08-09-2014 2:32pm

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Has Jack O'Connor expressed any interest in the job? I assume he'll probably say nothing until the minor final is over, but people are mentioning him as if he'd definitely be up for it.

If he is interested, I think he'd be a good choice.

Would ya stop.

As the other poster says he is involved with a good very good Kerry minor crop and the commute from South Kerry to Mayo is a no go, even if Jack by his own admission only works half days

Mayo need a man on the ground that know the local scene.

The team is stale it needs new blood and that new blood is only existing in Mayo clubs, and nowhere along the side of the road to Kerry, or anywhere else for that matter.

davegrohl48 · 08-09-2014 6:59pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Would ya stop.

As the other poster says he is involved with a good very good Kerry minor crop and the commute from South Kerry to Mayo is a no go, even if Jack by his own admission only works half days

Mayo need a man on the ground that know the local scene.

The team is stale it needs new blood and that new blood is only existing in Mayo clubs, and nowhere along the side of the road to Kerry, or anywhere else for that matter.

Mayo need to have a big season at U21 level and then we should start taking in players from that grade in 2's and 3's. Plus any older players from the academy.
Anointing minors as senior panel members aged 18/19 before they've been dominant players at U21 grade is flawed logic.
If you're not a dominant player at U21 level you will struggle at senior level. The improvement required aged 18 - 22 is what the Academy is there for.

yop · 08-09-2014 10:11pm

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=223943

One more year from Andy Moran. Delighted he is, one last hurrah!

TCDStudent1 · 09-09-2014 12:43am

realweirdo wrote: »

I know plenty of people actively involved in club football in mayo. And a lot of them are tactically naive. Its no use bringing together the best 30 players in a county if you don't know how to use them.

Saying McHale and McStay don't about mayo football at any level is completely ludicrous. These guys know Mayo football inside out.

Nobody in the thread said that. But there is no way that you can they can know "Mayo football inside out" if they are not actively involved with the clubs. Again, I don't know how involved McStay is in Mayo football. If he goes to Mayo club games regularly, then I think he is a good shout. But winning an AI with a Roscommon club and being on the Sunday game isn't enough in my view.

Why do they necessarily have to be familiar with club football?

In my opinion, it is absolutely vital. Firstly, if a manager has been looking at an established player playing for his club and county for the last few years, he should have more detailed knowledge of that players strengths and weaknesses. The more you see a player play, the more you know about him. Secondly, an outside manager may have heard the names of Diramuid O'Connor, Conor O'Shea etc but have not seen them play. A manager actively involved at club level would have seen them for the last few years and again know their strengths and weaknesses. Know how they faired when they came up against an inter county player in a club match for example. Know how ready they are for senior inter county level. Such decisions are crucial for Mayo in the next year. I know Andy Moran is staying on but don't forget its an Andy Moran that will be another year older. Thirdly, a manager who comes in from the outside actually has limited enough time to judge a player that he has not seen. The GAA season gets you into the league very quickly and it can be hard to asses a player on FBD and early league matches. I really believe that a manager has to know a history of a player before he can judge him.

An earlier post says Connelly was a big part of development squads in Mayo for the last few years. If that is the case, then I think that is a HUGE advantage over McStay. People on here are alluding to Connelly being potentially tactically naïve - no idea if that's true (although its hard to believe anybody could be more naïve than leaving Cafferkey on Donaghy for an entire match!).However, MStay certainly doesn't come across as any tactical genius to me when listening to him on the Sunday Game. No more than Johnny Giles in soccer, his punditry consists of a lot of pointing out the obvious! I'm not saying McStay is a bad choice; he has won an AI afterall and that always deserves respect. But I think Connelly's involvement in Mayo gives him a significant advantage.

yop · 11-09-2014 5:10pm

I guess we are all in post season doldrums.....

Won't feel until FBD

Fr Tod Umptious · 11-09-2014 5:28pm

yop wrote: »

I guess we are all in post season doldrums.....

Won't feel until FBD

Well there will be a bit to talk about

County Championship

New manager on the way

Draw for next years championship will be in early Oct.

Boom__Boom · 11-09-2014 5:46pm

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Nobody in the thread said that. But there is no way that you can they can know "Mayo football inside out" if they are not actively involved with the clubs. Again, I don't know how involved McStay is in Mayo football. If he goes to Mayo club games regularly, then I think he is a good shout. But winning an AI with a Roscommon club and being on the Sunday game isn't enough in my view.

Whatever about McStay I think this is even more relevant in the case of someone like Jack O'Connor (using this as shorthand for any completely outside manager really) He'd be turning up and while he'd know the key members of the team, he would probably have serious trouble identifying the fringe members of the squad, never mind lads outside the squad or any up-and-coming talents or lads who are possibly hidden gems. That's before you get into knowing what their characters are like and knowing how to mange the different personalities. It's one of the issues with appointing "outside" managers as opposed to someone from the county who been involved in the blood and guts day-to-day workings of Mayo football for a long period of time.

Audioslaven · 11-09-2014 9:28pm

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Whatever about McStay I think this is even more relevant in the case of someone like Jack O'Connor (using this as shorthand for any completely outside manager really) He'd be turning up and while he'd know the key members of the team, he would probably have serious trouble identifying the fringe members of the squad, never mind lads outside the squad or any up-and-coming talents or lads who are possibly hidden gems. That's before you get into knowing what their characters are like and knowing how to mange the different personalities. It's one of the issues with appointing "outside" managers as opposed to someone from the county who been involved in the blood and guts day-to-day workings of Mayo football for a long period of time.

leave that o'connor ballbag where he is. We do not need the likes of him in Mayo.

realweirdo · 12-09-2014 1:36am

@tcdstudent I'm all for finding new talent. But the core of the current team is good enough to win an AI, with the right approach and tactics. We don't need a transition where you start bringing in new blood with little or no championship experience only for them to be exposed in croke park. Its happened before. What we currently have is good enough barring one or two positions.

Saying Johnny Giles or Kevin McStay only point out the obvious is a bit bizarre. Giles always sees things that no one else sees. As for McStay even you have to recognise winning a club AI is an outstanding achievement considering the calibre of clubs and players in the competition. If you think he won it by anything other than good management then you are mistaken. McStay has proved himself and should be given the job.

irishgeo · 12-09-2014 11:30am

Closing date for nominations from the clubs is the 18th September at 11pm

Syferus · 12-09-2014 3:42pm

yop wrote: »

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=223943

One more year from Andy Moran. Delighted he is, one last hurrah!

Andy is still only 30 years of age. Anyone who knows him would tell you he had no intentions of retiring so young, and he's the sort of lad who loves it enough to stick around in a Brian Dooher impact sub role if that ends up being his role in future years.

One last hurrah? Doubtful.

Why are people saying Noel Connelly was an assistant manager at U21? He was co-manager. Everyone he has worked with that I know of have offered wholesome praise of him. Cutting through the guff and posturing - Connelly is a smart, qualified man, just as McStay is. Odds are so short on Connelly now it looks like his job to say no to. He was the second choice candidate after Horan in 2010 IIRC, and it was a close run decision at that.

TCDStudent1 · 12-09-2014 7:13pm

realweirdo wrote: »

@tcdstudent I'm all for finding new talent. But the core of the current team is good enough to win an AI, with the right approach and tactics. We don't need a transition where you start bringing in new blood with little or no championship experience only for them to be exposed in croke park. Its happened before. What we currently have is good enough barring one or two positions.

Saying Johnny Giles or Kevin McStay only point out the obvious is a bit bizarre. Giles always sees things that no one else sees. As for McStay even you have to recognise winning a club AI is an outstanding achievement considering the calibre of clubs and players in the competition. If you think he won it by anything other than good management then you are mistaken. McStay has proved himself and should be given the job.

1) Aah, this is where we disagree. The core of the current team have proved over the last 3 years that they are not good enough to win the AI. And I think they have deeper issues than 1 or 2 positions. I would put the figure at closer to 4 or 5. For example, this year Mayo had issues at number 3, one of the midfield positions and no. 14. There was no player who claimed those positions as their own this years Mayo team. And they are very central positions. There are other issues involving less central positions.

Maybe McStay could get more out of Freeman at number 14 for example. But Connelly's work with these players and close observance of such players should mean he is better equipped with working such players.

2) Absolutely, any AI winner deserves a lot of respect. And I think McStay must be a good manager. That AI winning team was a very well organised team. However, I do not think that AI success gives McStay an advantage over Connelly. To me, Connelly's probable superior knowledge of Mayo football gives him an advantage over McStay.

Fr Tod Umptious · 13-09-2014 12:53am

realweirdo wrote: »

@tcdstudent I'm all for finding new talent. But the core of the current team is good enough to win an AI, with the right approach and tactics. We don't need a transition where you start bringing in new blood with little or no championship experience only for them to be exposed in croke park. Its happened before. What we currently have is good enough barring one or two positions.

Saying Johnny Giles or Kevin McStay only point out the obvious is a bit bizarre. Giles always sees things that no one else sees. As for McStay even you have to recognise winning a club AI is an outstanding achievement considering the calibre of clubs and players in the competition. If you think he won it by anything other than good management then you are mistaken. McStay has proved himself and should be given the job.

That may or may not be the case.

The core of this team IMO is
Higgins
Keegan
Vaughan
Boyle
S O Shea
A O Shea
McLoughlin
The Marquee Forward.

Every other spot is very much up for grabs and depending on form some of the above may even be up for grabs.
So they heed help in the full backs, half forwards and forwards
I'm not saying that Cafferkey, Cuniffe, Barrett, Freeman etc are no longer good enough to start, but I am saying is that we need improvement in those positions

Interestingly Higgins, Boyle and Seamus O' Shea played in the U-21 victory in 2006, as did Cafferky, Cuniffe, Barrett, Barry Moran, Conroy and Varley

Now I know that they are not old but 2006 will be 9 years ago by the time these guys start theior next All Ireland campaign , and those guys are not getting any younger.

Before we know it they will be too old, and may well go down in history with the likes of Willie Joe, Anthony Larry, Lima McHale, David Brady, James Nallen etc.

realweirdo · 13-09-2014 2:52pm

Mayo have proved over the last 3 years they can beat any team on any given day and when they have lost to the bigger teams its usually been by only a score or two, usually because of bad tactics, a bit of bad luck or bad refereeing.

When you are that close to other big teams, it really does come down to small things that make the difference such as a decision going against you or making one or two tactical errors.

Unlike a lot of people such as TCDstudent, I do believe this Mayo team has what it takes, even if you stick with most of the team that started against Kerry. Obviously you change your formation and team to match your opponent...ie they have a 6"5 full forward, we need to put in a new full back. But like I said the core of the team is good enough to win an AI.

Horan was a great manager, but unfortunately, he persisted with flawed tactics too often and was loyal to some players when they should have been dropped.

I don't think Connelly has done anything particularly special as a manager. Co-Manager for the under 21 team, fair enough, but he was co-manager and it was under 21s.

This is senior football we are talking about where you have to be a tactical genious. I also thought Castlebar were lucky to make the club AI final last year. They equalised late against St. Brigids when injury time went on too long, Colm Cooper's injury was a stroke of luck in the semi-final. As for the final, they had no plan to deal with Diarmuid Connolly who was the main danger man. He dictated the play and none of the Castlebar players got near him. We can't afford tactical naivity like that for Mayo.

As other posters have said, this Mayo team, which many consider a golden generation, will be over the hill in a few years, and if we don't get this particular managerial appointment right, we could be back into the dark ages again or sufferning more near misses.

NabyLadistheman · 13-09-2014 9:33pm

realweirdo wrote: »

This is senior football we are talking about where you have to be a tactical genious. I also thought Castlebar were lucky to make the club AI final last year. They equalised late against St. Brigids when injury time went on too long, Colm Cooper's injury was a stroke of luck in the semi-final. As for the final, they had no plan to deal with Diarmuid Connolly who was the main danger man. He dictated the play and none of the Castlebar players got near him. We can't afford tactical naivity like that for Mayo.

Pat Holmes is not in the running for the job.

Mayo GAA Discussion Thread

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