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Irish Rail strike days

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13567…21

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    #62
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,989 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0801/634643-irish-rail-nbru/




    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/irish-rail-workers-to-go-on-strike-30477637.html

    For someone who doesn't follow this regularly when I read stuff like the above I have no sympathy for the strikers, none.
    the strikers don't want your sympathy, or care whether one has sympathy for them or not, all they care about is resolving this to a satisfactory deal, we'd all do the same if we could. some unions accepting and others rejecting is good old democracy in action

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #63
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,989 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    n97 mini wrote: »
    The fact the unions are going on strike on what are set to be very lucrative days only worsens the company's financial position and does little to further their cause.
    it does a lot to further their cause hense why they are doing it

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #64
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,989 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    If Income tax is cut in the budget it may very well cancel out any basic cut to wages.

    i'd say hell would freeze over before income tax is cut.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #65
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,989 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Passenger numbers fell dramatically.


    The basic question is should the government maintain subsidy levels at the same level despite the fact that far fewer people are being transported?


    The reverse should apply in normal conditions, that as passenger numbers start to increase, subsidy levels should rise again, but there is the second aspect in recent years of every government department having to cut expenditure due to the financial predicament that this country finds itself in.
    if cutting the subsidy leads to trains so short that they cause discomfort that people go to alternatives then that isn't good

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #66
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,989 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »
    a company with a monopoly on the country's trains

    in fairness a monopoly on a railway isn't unique to ireland, you have NIR, and the franchizes in the UK are monopolies in a sense

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #67
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,989 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    steveblack wrote: »
    Jammed packed commuter trains in and out of dublin every day, empty trains running in the west of ireland to keep a politician happy.

    the empty trains would only equal a couple of train sets which won't be returning to dublin even if the WRC was shut as they are based in limerick and rotate to cork meaning you will still have jammed packed commuter trains.
    steveblack wrote: »
    transfer those train carriages to dublin where they will be filled and profitable.

    as i said can't be done
    steveblack wrote: »
    Free Travel, IE getting paid pennys per journey, where as fair paying passengers are coughing up €10+ per ticket.

    the free travel is an issue but even if it was solved you would still be coughing up 10 € + per ticket. i would say 10 € for a train ticket is actually a good deal.
    steveblack wrote: »
    No need to wonder why IE or The CIE group of companies struggle to turn a profit.

    because most of the public transport cannot, will not, and isn't supposed to make a profit, no matter who ran it, its not its job to do so and rightly so, all though it would be nice in an ideal world if it did.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #68
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,201 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Just wondering as it's the nbru will bus drivers pass pickets . ie are dublin bus drivers goin to walk out


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    #69
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »
    And if they do sell up what exactly do you think a private group are going to do to employee wages? It is beyond me how a company with a monopoly on the country's trains make a loss, but leaving that aside I would have thought a 1.7% cut was pretty reasonable.

    If a private company take over IR they have to take on the staff on their current wage.


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    #70
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    yet the bailout bill will grow be a couple of hundred thousand because of the strikes so who will pick up the bill?



    With respect there is plenty in IE who don't know a hard days work is.

    But at least they are working and paying their fair share in taxes which in turn helps to keep the work shy in free travel.


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    #71
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    n97 mini wrote: »
    The subvention works out at about €28k per staff member so if the average wage was €62k that'd be accurate. Except they wouldn't be contributing anything to any other public services they use if all their income tax went into IE.

    At this point i wish there was a bang head against wall smilie :).


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    #72
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    At this point i wish there was a bang head against wall smilie :).

    Not entirely sure what you mean, but just for the record I find your points on the topic to be fairly reasonable and I was pointing out the €28k per staff member more for statistics than anything else.


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    #73
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    end of the road wrote: »
    the empty trains would only equal a couple of train sets which won't be returning to dublin even if the WRC was shut as they are based in limerick and rotate to cork meaning you will still have jammed packed commuter trains.

    We did have a situation with jam packed 2-car DARTs a while back - reduced to 2 cars to save money - while empty trains were running to Sligo...


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    #74
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,989 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    n97 mini wrote: »
    We did have a situation with jam packed 2-car DARTs a while back - reduced to 2 cars to save money - while empty trains were running to Sligo...
    what empty trains running to sligo? i believe some lower used services were merged, but the reduction in dart carriges (which i believe was a wrong strategy) would have happened anyway regardless, my point still stands, the 2800 class is rotated between limerick and cork, its based in limerick, so even if the services they operate out of limerick went they would most likely either.
    1. stay down there and continue to rotate to cork and sit around otherwise.
    2. the 2600s retired early and the 28s go to cork full time to replace them.
    either way closing services won't bring carriges back to dublin i'm sorry to say

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #75
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,473 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Yes 7%.
    Infini2 wrote: »
    Not against core pay however they agreed to reduced terms and conditions 2 years ago in return for leaving core pay alone till 2016.

    So which is it?


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    #76
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Both


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    #77
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,473 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Both

    well that clarifies it then :rolleyes:

    want to maybe stop being pointlessly cryptic and actually explain what you mean by "both"?


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    #78
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    So which is it?

    There was a 7% increase agreed a few years ago that simply didn't happen and is never mentioned by management. It didn't happen so it is just going to disappear into the ether.

    There were cost cutting measures applied a couple of years ago as well and they "guaranteed" no further cuts until 2016. Guess it was no cuts until 2016 until they decided that cuts were desperately needed in 2014 to keep the company alive (out of nowhere seemingly, and this is the only option to keep the company afloat).


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    #79
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    end of the road wrote: »
    either way closing services won't bring carriges back to dublin i'm sorry to say

    That depends on the sets used, which is another discussion, but my point is save money with reductions to under used services, not very busy ones. But I suspect it's politically easier to reduce DARTs to 2 cars than it is to delete 2 services from a little used route, even though the former affects far more.


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    #80
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    well that clarifies it then :rolleyes:

    want to maybe stop being pointlessly cryptic and actually explain what you mean by "both"?

    Im supposed to be 7% better off in my wages but im not.


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    #81
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    As mickey said workers were owed the 7% in total in line with inflation but wasnt delivered on.
    Basically the worker side gave various sick pay, al and other conditions in return for keeping core pay as it was. This was meant to last till 2016 but now managent are reneigning on the previous deal and looking to impose cuts leading to strikes.

    Like I said before if it was a minor pay cut just as it was it might seem petty but its the whole gutting of the place in terms of staffing level on the front line as well as constantly filling management and reneiging on a previous agreement along with other factors is whats causing this.


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    #82
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,989 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    n97 mini wrote: »
    That depends on the sets used, which is another discussion

    more or less commuter sets, which won't be returned to dublin, but will most likely rotate to cork, ICRS can turn up an odd time but they usually rotate but won't make a difference if for example the WRC went.
    n97 mini wrote: »
    my point is save money with reductions to under used services, not very busy ones.

    i know, but it has been done all ready
    n97 mini wrote: »
    I suspect it's politically easier to reduce DARTs to 2 cars than it is to delete 2 services from a little used route, even though the former affects far more.

    nothing to do with politics, deleting 2 services from a little used route is not going to bring back more carriges on the dart, they are both irrelevant to each other. fact is cost reductions would effect everyone no matter what, until the government realise public transport has to be payed for that isn't going to change.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #83
    may06
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭may06


    n97 mini wrote: »
    We did have a situation with jam packed 2-car DARTs a while back - reduced to 2 cars to save money - while empty trains were running to Sligo...

    Sligo capacity was also reduced - no such thing as an empty train on that route now.


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    #84
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    may06 wrote: »
    Sligo capacity was also reduced - no such thing as an empty train on that route now.

    I walk the Royal Canal regularly and see my fair share of 22k's passing with 1-3 people per carriage.


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    #85
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,989 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    may06 wrote: »
    Sligo capacity was also reduced - no such thing as an empty train on that route now.

    yes i believe some trains have overcrowding issues or has that resolved itself now?

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #86
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,989 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    n97 mini wrote: »
    I walk the Royal Canal regularly and see my fair share of 22k's passing with 1-3 people per carriage.
    maybe at dinner time, many routes can have that problem from time to time, however those trains would have to run anyway as they will have to go down for the return services which could be packed

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #87
    may06
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭may06


    end of the road wrote: »
    yes i believe some trains have overcrowding issues or has that resolved itself now?

    Can only speak for 0540 that comes from Longford - its packed as always and will get packed even further once college/school resumes. 1805 connolly longford is jammed to capacity too. Evening Sligo services ex-Connolly at the mo not overcrowded, but again that is set to change once schools/colleges reopen


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    #88
    may06
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭may06


    n97 mini wrote: »
    I walk the Royal Canal regularly and see my fair share of 22k's passing with 1-3 people per carriage.

    Yeah, i'd say you do alright...gross exaggeration that one.


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    #89
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    Infini2 wrote: »
    ...the whole gutting of the place in terms of staffing level on the front line as well as constantly filling management.....

    This is more of a problem than most people realize.

    The reason your reserved seat can't be enforced? The reason that someone in a wheelchair needs to have passengers take them off the train (recent event in Landsdowne)? The reason a blind person is killed by a train last week? The reason "antisocial" behavior is rampant throughout the network?

    No/few frontline staff.

    People left the job on voluntary severance and one guy now covers two or three peoples job on the one shift. People who were actually doing a job, not people sitting in a back office working "office hours" doing God knows what.


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    #90
    Heisenberg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Heisenberg1


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    There was a 7% increase agreed a few years ago that simply didn't happen and is never mentioned by management. It didn't happen so it is just going to disappear into the ether.

    There were cost cutting measures applied a couple of years ago as well and they "guaranteed" no further cuts until 2016. Guess it was no cuts until 2016 until they decided that cuts were desperately needed in 2014 to keep the company alive (out of nowhere seemingly, and this is the only option to keep the company afloat).

    That 7% rise is that the national wage agreement rise? And the cost cutting that was agreed was there not a part in that agreement that if IE finances deteriorated further pay cuts would be on the table?


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    #91
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    may06 wrote: »
    Yeah, i'd say you do alright...gross exaggeration that one.

    I'll take a photo for you next time. Believe me, outside of commuter traffic there is very little patronage Mon-Thurs and Saturdays.


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