Asthma and cycle racing

tomdempsey200 · 11-06-2014 3:40pm #1

there's a big sh1tstorm blown up over an inhaler froome used on monday on the climb

godtabh · 11-06-2014 3:44pm

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

but he had plenty of power in 2012..

but not compared to when he was on the track. Enough for the Tour

Inquitus · 11-06-2014 4:00pm

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

there's a big sh1tstorm blown up over an inhaler froome used on monday on the climb

Not really, he used an Salbutamol inhaler that doesn't even require a TUE to assist with his exercise induced Asthma, nothing to see here despite people wishing there was.

pelevin · 11-06-2014 5:10pm

Inquitus wrote: »

Not really, he used an Salbutamol inhaler that doesn't even require a TUE to assist with his exercise induced Asthma, nothing to see here despite people wishing there was.

There's certainly a huge aspect of people wanting Froome & Sky to be doping, but I think the fair question from a general point of view is if there's a performance enhancing aspect to such an inhaler used in race time. I'm a total layman but does such an inhaler help in increasing one's intake of O2, & so one's available energy? If so, is there a case for saying having asthma is unfortunate but not something which should be compensated for in the midst of competitive athletics?

neris · 11-06-2014 5:19pm

pelevin wrote: »

There's certainly a huge aspect of people wanting Froome & Sky to be doping

i dont think people want them to be doping, i think thats the last thing the sport needs.

Darkglasses · 11-06-2014 5:22pm

neris wrote: »

i dont think people want them to be doping, i think thats the last thing the sport needs.

Reading some posts on here over the last couple of years I can guarantee you some people take great pleasure in knocking the sport if cycling as being full of dopers, and that we're foolish to be watching it. Some people want to be able to say "I told you so" in a few years time.

pelevin · 11-06-2014 5:33pm

neris wrote: »

i dont think people want them to be doping, i think thats the last thing the sport needs.

There are definitely lots of people who want them to be caught for doping, just look at comments on articles Cycling News for a few days & that'll become clear enough.

lennymc · 11-06-2014 6:22pm

there is an upper daily limit for salbutamol (1600 mg iirc). If he is over that limit I'm sure it would be picked up and he would be penalised. Lots of riders use it. Lots of professional sports people use it. Cian Healy, Paul Scholes, Big Mig, Jan Ulrich, Paula Radcliff and many more have asthma.

There is no extra benefit from using an inhaler on the bike imho. (subjective I know, but I have had asthma for years and use inhalers when riding and running). All they do is to help you breath normally when breathing normally is not possible due to the asthma. Having seriously restricted breathing due to asthma is pretty horrible.

Brian? · 11-06-2014 7:04pm

pelevin wrote: »

There's certainly a huge aspect of people wanting Froome & Sky to be doping, but I think the fair question from a general point of view is if there's a performance enhancing aspect to such an inhaler used in race time. I'm a total layman but does such an inhaler help in increasing one's intake of O2, & so one's available energy? If so, is there a case for saying having asthma is unfortunate but not something which should be compensated for in the midst of competitive athletics?

It dialates the passageways in the lungs. That's it really. If you don't have Asthma, it'll do feck all.

godtabh · 11-06-2014 7:11pm

Brian? wrote: »

It dialates the passageways in the lungs. That's it really. If you don't have Asthma, it'll do feck all.

It also raises your heart beat (or is that the purple one?)

Brian? · 11-06-2014 7:12pm

godtabh wrote: »

It also raises your heart beat (or is that the purple one?)

I can't remember. I wouldn't see it raising your heart beat as a plus though.

godtabh · 11-06-2014 8:05pm

Brian? wrote: »

I can't remember. I wouldn't see it raising your heart beat as a plus though.

thats what I meant. People assume its a performance enhancer but it may not be

slfcarro5 · 11-06-2014 8:53pm

godtabh wrote: »

It also raises your heart beat (or is that the purple one?)

It's the purple one (seritide) that raises your heart rate

lennymc · 11-06-2014 8:57pm

taken from the 2014 wada prohibited list

Wada wrote:

S3. BETA-2 AGONISTS

All beta-2 agonists, including all optical isomers (e.g. d- and l-) where relevant,
are prohibited except inhaled salbutamol (maximum 1600 micrograms over 24
hours), inhaled formoterol (maximum delivered dose 54 micrograms over 24
hours) and salmeterol when taken by inhalation in accordance with the
manufacturers’ recommended therapeutic regimen.

The 2014 Prohibited List
11 September 2013
5

The presence in urine of salbutamol in excess of 1000 ng/mL or formoterol in
excess of 40 ng/mL is presumed not to be an intended therapeutic use of the
substance and will be considered as an Adverse Analytical Finding unless the
Athlete proves, through a controlled pharmacokinetic study, that the abnormal
result was the consequence of the use of the therapeutic inhaled dose up to the
maximum indicated above.

ROK ON · 11-06-2014 9:35pm

lennymc wrote: »

there is an upper daily limit for salbutamol (1600 mg iirc). If he is over that limit I'm sure it would be picked up and he would be penalised. Lots of riders use it. Lots of professional sports people use it. Cian Healy, Paul Scholes, Big Mig, Jan Ulrich, Paula Radcliff and many more have asthma.

There is no extra benefit from using an inhaler on the bike imho. (subjective I know, but I have had asthma for years and use inhalers when riding and running). All they do is to help you breath normally when breathing normally is not possible due to the asthma. Having seriously restricted breathing due to asthma is pretty horrible.

IIRC when ex Munster and Irish rugby player Frankie Sheahan was infracted for salbutamol use he received a huge amount of support from pro rugby players everywhere.
It transpired that a very significant amount of the munster rugby team were asthmatic. Both Martin Johnson and Lawerence Dallalagio supported Sheahan - almost the entire English pack claimed to be asthmatic.

Make of that what you will.
My view is the incidence of sports induced asthma seems to be increasing over time (or is that it's diagnosis).

Eamonnator · 11-06-2014 10:13pm

ROK ON wrote: »

IIRC when ex Munster and Irish rugby player Frankie Sheahan was infracted for salbutamol use he received a huge amount of support from pro rugby players everywhere.
It transpired that a very significant amount of the munster rugby team were asthmatic. Both Martin Johnson and Lawerence Dallalagio supported Sheahan - almost the entire English pack claimed to be asthmatic.

Make of that what you will.
My view is the incidence of sports induced asthma seems to be increasing over time (or is that it's diagnosis).

Can you give a link to information about this, please?

ROK ON · 11-06-2014 11:07pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

Can you give a link to information about this, please?

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/7918.php#.U5jRYf15nTo

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/ireland/2410630/Sheahan-fights-for-his-right-to-breathe.html

tomdempsey200 · 11-06-2014 11:14pm

25% of team GB at London 2012 were asthmatic

Eamonnator · 11-06-2014 11:23pm

ROK ON wrote: »

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/7918.php#.U5jRYf15nTo

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/ireland/2410630/Sheahan-fights-for-his-right-to-breathe.html

At about this time,2002-2003 my son was an elite cyclist(DH MTB). He is asthmatic. He had a TUE for his ventolin inhaler, and other medication. He was tested regularly, maybe 5-6 a year. He never had any problem.
I was unaware, that athletes had such problems.

lennymc · 12-06-2014 8:22am

The TUE was removed in about 2011 iirc, and instead, an upper daily limit was introduced.

godtabh · 12-06-2014 9:21am

If it was illegal I doubt it would be done so openly during a race

lennymc · 12-06-2014 9:27am

godtabh wrote: »

If it was illegal I doubt it would be done so openly during a race

that's the thing - it's not illegal. It's no more illegal than taking a gel.

laraghrider · 12-06-2014 9:30am

As someone who suffered with asthma since being a child I can speak from experience here. Now thankfully it hasn't affected me in years and I've not needed an inhaler for possibly 10 years. Anyway when you are either fully asthmatic or exercise induced all the inhaler does (combivent then ventolin in my case) is coats and dilates your airways. This merely brings you up to the same level as someone without asthma. If you are not asthmatic you can feel slightly strange after taking an inhaler but in reality it does absolutely nothing for you.

Now there is a case of over use. If you puff on it excessively and I mean 10plus times it can give you a very short term feeling of a lot of air. Weather this translates into actual performance I don't know. It can also make you light headed though. Anybody familiar with Allesando Petacchi this is what he was disqualified from the 2007 giro for. He regularly took like 10 puffs coming up to the final sprint and registered a much higher reading that allowable.

So in short this whole Chris Froome inhaler he's cheating thing is absolutely and completely bollo....

pelevin · 12-06-2014 11:26am

laraghrider wrote: »

As someone who suffered with asthma since being a child I can speak from experience here. Now thankfully it hasn't affected me in years and I've not needed an inhaler for possibly 10 years. Anyway when you are either fully asthmatic or exercise induced all the inhaler does (combivent then ventolin in my case) is coats and dilates your airways. This merely brings you up to the same level as someone without asthma. If you are not asthmatic you can feel slightly strange after taking an inhaler but in reality it does absolutely nothing for you.

Now there is a case of over use. If you puff on it excessively and I mean 10plus times it can give you a very short term feeling of a lot of air. Weather this translates into actual performance I don't know. It can also make you light headed though. Anybody familiar with Allesando Petacchi this is what he was disqualified from the 2007 giro for. He regularly took like 10 puffs coming up to the final sprint and registered a much higher reading that allowable.

So in short this whole Chris Froome inhaler he's cheating thing is absolutely and completely bollo....

Thanks for that, though as a slight caveat I'd say, given your info about Petacchi, the idea using an inhaler is cheating is absolute, total boll. . . doesn't quite tally, or is unnecessarily overstating the case.

Chips Lovell · 12-06-2014 11:35am

Had asthma as a kid right through to my early 20s. Wouldn't have been able to play sports without inhalers. Significant proportion of my rugby team in school also had it to varying degrees.

Can completely understand how someone could overdo it with an inhaler without intending to cheat. You live in constant fear that your asthma will strike at the wrong time and go for the "better sure than sorry" approach.

It's like firing gels into you near the end of a race. You probably don't need them but you need that mental reassurance.

Eamonnator · 12-06-2014 11:43am

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

25% of team GB at London 2012 were asthmatic

Does anybody know,what percentage of the general population is asthmatic?

Chips Lovell · 12-06-2014 11:53am

I'd expect to see a higher incidence of asthma in athletes than in the general population.

Bristolscale7 · 12-06-2014 11:54am

Eamonnator wrote: »

Does anybody know,what percentage of the general population is asthmatic?

8-10% I think.

gordongekko · 12-06-2014 11:57am

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

I'd expect to see a higher incidence of asthma in athletes than in the general population.

Why?

Brian? · 12-06-2014 11:59am

gordongekko wrote: »

Why?

Because exercise induced asthma is very real and effects realy fit people, like Olympians.

There is definitely an attitude around that it's a con, people are claiming to be asthmatic to use inhalers and get an edge performance wise. It's not though, salbutamol will do feck all for you unless you're asthmatic.

Chips Lovell · 12-06-2014 12:00pm

Two factors:

1. Sedentary people aren't going to suffer from exercise induced asthma.
2. Sedentary people with milder cases of asthma are more likely to go undiagnosed.

Asthma and cycle racing

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