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Mass unmarked grave for 800 babies in Tuam

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    #1382
    Obliq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    RoadhouseBlues wrote: »
    Aye it would prob be good for them to talk about it too. And it might make it easier online as opposed to face to face with someone.

    I was reading posts and I don't know if it was here or AH, but there was someone saying him and his brothers were in care and some died and one other is dying. He was asking what did people think was the life span of someone who grew up in care. It was horrible. I was nearly crying reading it. And me a grown man. I feel lucky that I escaped those times. Its made feel guilty for all the things I complain about these days. As in stupid things.

    That was Dodd, I think. I thought his posts all through the thread totally grounded it, indisputable as they were.

    It brings you back to reality alright, knowing that folks of our own age have these experiences and there's young people who wouldn't have ever heard of a mother and baby's home run by the orders, or a Magdalen Laundry. I guess they don't teach too much about them in the RCC schools.....

    That's why this history is so huge to us, even if it's small recollections like your own. I mean, we can all speculate about why two kids were treated so differently to each other in your story, with both being ill and the one nun being nice to one and nasty to the other.....


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    #1383
    RoadhouseBlues
    Closed Accounts Posts: 631 ✭✭✭RoadhouseBlues


    Obliq wrote: »
    That was Dodd, I think. I thought his posts all through the thread totally grounded it, indisputable as they were.

    It brings you back to reality alright, knowing that folks of our own age have these experiences and there's young people who wouldn't have ever heard of a mother and baby's home run by the orders, or a Magdalen Laundry. I guess they don't teach too much about them in the RCC schools.....

    That's why this history is so huge to us, even if it's small recollections like your own. I mean, we can all speculate about why two kids were treated so differently to each other in your story, with both being ill and the one nun being nice to one and nasty to the other.....

    Well I went to school in the 80's and early 90's and to be honest I never heard about those homes until I was grown up. I suppose people didn't talk about them.

    I do remember in national school. I would have been about 8 or 9, and the teacher told us that babies who died before they were baptised didn't go to heaven. Now I cant remember how that subject came up, but it seems to be a strange thing to say to children.

    I remember I used to hate having to go to confession. I think its a horrible thing to have to do. But I used to make up things to tell the priest cos I didn't know what to say:-).

    There was one time though, I told the priest I didn't go to mass on Sunday morn cos I was up late on Sat night watching a movie. And that was true:-). Well he went mental. And this was the calmest priest you could ever meet. He told me it was a mortal sin and god knows what else. It seems fairly mild now though considering everything that has been found out.


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    #1384
    StevieNicksFan
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭StevieNicksFan


    My grandmother had a baby in a church run hospital in the East, sometime in the 1960's. The baby died shortly after birth and the nuns took the baby away - never to be seen again. To this day, nobody knows where she was buried (if buried at all). All because the child hadn't survived long enough to be baptised and so wasn't 'worthy' in the eyes of the church to have a proper burial ceremony. If you asked the nuns any questions - you were told in no uncertain terms where to go.

    Now my grandmother was a married woman at the time, with 4 other children at home. So it's important to realise the hold that the church had over everyone in society, not just unmarried mothers and those in industrial homes. It's so sad to think that in the eyes of the Catholic Church, an innocent child who didn't have the chance to live could be punished in such a horrible way for something beyond their control - dying.


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    #1385
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    Ravenid wrote: »
    Are you lot seriously arguing about a WORD!!!!

    If you want to argue about a word argue about this one.

    Because it appears that IHI is either the official or self-appointed thread derailer (there is actually a Chinese government position for people who are paid to do this on behalf of the ccp) for the rcc, and he/she is constantly bringing up debunked issues, or introducing irrelevant issues (a la Ronan Mullen or Breda O'Brien) in the vain hope that the rest of us get confused and start saying "ah, sure, it wasn't the rcc's fault. They did their best by the poor baybeees".


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    #1386
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    Here's a nice quote from John Wesley :

    Speaking of the Papacy he said, "He is in an emphatical sense, the Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled the Son of Perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers... He it is...that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped...claiming the highest power, and highest honour...claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone." Taken from Antichrist and His Ten Kingdoms by John Wesley, pg. 110.

    Maybe big Ian was right all along about the rc church being an abomination.


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    #1387
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Brian Shanahan wrote: »
    Because it appears that IHI...........and he/she is constantly bringing up debunked issues, or introducing irrelevant issues (a la Ronan Mullen or Breda O'Brien) in the vain hope that the rest of us get confused and start saying "ah, sure, it wasn't the rcc's fault. They did their best by the poor baybeees".

    I'm not. I've been questioning certain elements of this story. Alternative views are not always appreciated.


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    #1388
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Agree 100%

    I'm sure there are many people reading this thread who could tell stories about dealings with nuns/priests (not all bad) who are thinking their stories don't count. Please do reconsider because no matter what your story we would like to hear it. This is not an anti catholic/priest/nun thread so please tell of you experiences.

    I've encountered countless priests, nuns and brothers over the years. I'm struggling to remember any that weren't nice, gentle people. That's my story. Reminded of Jack Nicholson in "As Good As It Gets" - "most people have nice, pretty stories......"


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    #1389
    Spring Onion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,087 ✭✭✭Spring Onion


    RoadhouseBlues wrote: »
    I do remember in national school. I would have been about 8 or 9, and the teacher told us that babies who died before they were baptised didn't go to heaven. Now I cant remember how that subject came up, but it seems to be a strange thing to say to children.

    The teachers mightn't be coming out with that garbage but some of the parents still are. My niece goes to a primary school in Galway. Her parents are not religious so they opted out of communion along with a few others in the class. One of the other kids told the other communion kids that her mother said "children not taking communion will go to hell". I kid you not. My niece got bullied and the invites to birthday parties among the communion kids got scarce. I blame the stupid parent of course but the teachers need to do more too on the bullying side of religion.
    .


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    #1390
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Corless is distancing herself from this sentence "800 bodies are dumped in a septic tank". She is pointing out that she did not say this, and that she was not the originator of the phrase.

    Actually no she is not. It is simply that the Irish Times reporter deliberately misquoted her in a bizzare attempt to discredit the whole story (bizzare because the uncut video of the interview is on the IT website showing that Corless never distanced herself from the statement, going so far as to say that it was possible, and also commenting that the number of children in the septic tank wasn't the issue, that it was in fact the fact that 796 bodies have gone missing, that the children's deaths were recorded, but not their burials).

    Since Geraldine Kennedy was editor, the IT has engaged in an increasingly strange fellatio of the rcc.


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    #1391
    Spring Onion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,087 ✭✭✭Spring Onion


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    I've encountered countless priests, nuns and brothers over the years. I'm struggling to remember any that weren't nice, gentle people.

    You could not have gone to the CBS in the 1970s/1980s.
    80% of them were sadistic cruel feckers!


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    #1392
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Spring Onion wrote: »
    You could not have gone to the CBS in the 1970s/1980s.
    80% of them were sadistic cruel feckers!

    I did. Mid-late 80s albeit in a CBS, before that a convent school. Met lovely Christian Brothers.


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    #1393
    Spring Onion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,087 ✭✭✭Spring Onion


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    I did. Mid-late 80s albeit in a CBS, before that a convent school. Met lovely Christian Brothers.

    Your quote was "I'm struggling to remember any that weren't nice, gentle people." How come you got all the nice ones?
    Corporal punishment was banned in 1982 but up until then they were lashing us with their weapon of choice (usually a leather strap) at will. After 1982, I still remember ducking from "glantóirs" and open hands for a few years after. One particularly cruel brother used to lift lads up using both his locks - very sore.
    In my primary school, 2 were prosecuted for abusing boys. They were at it for many years too.


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    #1394
    Dodd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Dodd


    RoadhouseBlues wrote: »
    Aye it would prob be good for them to talk about it too. And it might make it easier online as opposed to face to face with someone.

    I was reading posts and I don't know if it was here or AH, but there was someone saying him and his brothers were in care and some died and one other is dying. He was asking what did people think was the life span of someone who grew up in care. It was horrible. I was nearly crying reading it. And me a grown man. I feel lucky that I escaped those times. Its made feel guilty for all the things I complain about these days. As in stupid things.

    Yes that's me.
    There are many shells who would post to help the church/nuns but I don't often see post from people who lived there....

    Either people who lived in these places are dead or don't follow news and no internet.?

    My two dead brothers and dying one would not know how to turn on a PC never mine go on the Internet.


    My twin brother and I were alter boys but mostly for weddings.
    It brought in good money for them and I'm sure I am in many wedding photos.
    The priest in the middle of the couple and the twins on the outside,lovely. Top photo.

    Edit: Yes I would like to know what the life span would be of inmates after leaving compared to others.


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    #1395
    RoadhouseBlues
    Closed Accounts Posts: 631 ✭✭✭RoadhouseBlues


    Spring Onion wrote: »
    The teachers mightn't be coming out with that garbage but some of the parents still are. My niece goes to a primary school in Galway. Her parents are not religious so they opted out of communion along with a few others in the class. One of the other kids told the other communion kids that her mother said "children not taking communion will go to hell". I kid you not. My niece got bullied and the invites to birthday parties among the communion kids got scarce. I blame the stupid parent of course but the teachers need to do more too on the bullying side of religion.
    .

    That's mad alright. I do often wonder is it passed down to each generation. I mean I sort have had my mind made up as a teenager about religion and all that. It wasn't drilled into me as a child by my parents or anything but we had to go to mass. And believe me. It wasn't for religion. It was so we would be seen to be there. I'm not making sense though. What I mean is, I wonder will this generation be as strict religion wise with their children?


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    #1396
    Spring Onion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,087 ✭✭✭Spring Onion


    RoadhouseBlues wrote: »
    What I mean is, I wonder will this generation be as strict religion wise with their children?

    No, you can see already that most parents today are fairly blasé about religion. But the good thing is that the kids will question/research via the internet and are even more likely to pick holes in the "story". I imagine many file God alongside Santa, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, the Bogeyman (do we do this anymore?), Kaiser Sosé and Leprechauns a lot younger than we atheists did.


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    #1397
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    lazygal wrote: »
    My mother and her sisters were referred to as "the country girls" along with non town dwellers in her school and not in a complimentary way.

    Dublin? Because outside of the capital it would be the country children who were generally seen as better, especially in secondary schools. My mother was a country girl, Knockea into Limerick, and she was generally considered better than her city classmates, because the nuns knew her family were "pillars of society". Also her oldest sister took the very unusual step of entering the Sisters of Mercy. It was generally unheard of for the daughter of a large farmer, university graduate and former War of Independence officer to go into the religious, something left for daughters of poor farmers.


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    #1398
    RoadhouseBlues
    Closed Accounts Posts: 631 ✭✭✭RoadhouseBlues


    Dodd wrote: »
    Yes that's me.
    There are many shells who would post to help the church/nuns but I don't often see post from people who lived there....

    Either people who lived in these places are dead or don't follow news and no internet.?

    My two dead brothers and dying one would not know how to turn on a PC never mine go on the Internet.


    My twin brother and I were alter boys but mostly for weddings.
    It brought in good money for them and I'm sure I am in many wedding photos.
    The priest in the middle of the couple and the twins on the outside,lovely. Top photo.

    Hi Dodd.

    I hope I didn't offend you by bringing up your story like that. I found it very sad and you have my most sincere sympathy. To be honest, since I read it I can't stop thinking about it. It seems money was the most important thing to them and basic humanity was forgotten. I can't imagine what you went through and I wish we didn't need to be even having this conversation but unfortunately the world is not a nice place. Have you ever met up with other survivors to talk about things?. If you don't want to answer that its perfectly fine. Its none of my business. I was just thinking it might help to be in a group of people who understood what you are going through.


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    #1399
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    ezra_pound wrote: »
    Maybe big Ian was right all along about the rc church being an abomination.

    So is Paisley's group of bigots. In fact, show me any religious grouping that aren't an abomination, and you'll show me a grouping that has left religion behind.


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    #1400
    Dodd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Dodd


    I once prayed to god while outside the head nuns office that she would not beat the crap out of me for something I didn't do.

    I got the crap beet out of me.


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    #1401
    Dodd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Dodd


    RoadhouseBlues wrote: »
    Hi Dodd.

    I hope I didn't offend you by bringing up your story like that. I found it very sad and you have my most sincere sympathy. To be honest, since I read it I can't stop thinking about it. It seems money was the most important thing to them and basic humanity was forgotten. I can't imagine what you went through and I wish we didn't need to be even having this conversation but unfortunately the world is not a nice place. Have you ever met up with other survivors to talk about things?. If you don't want to answer that its perfectly fine. Its none of my business. I was just thinking it might help to be in a group of people who understood what you are going through.

    Most people I grow up with that I have meet did not turn out to well.

    I will leave it at I would not want most calling to my home.


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    #1402
    RoadhouseBlues
    Closed Accounts Posts: 631 ✭✭✭RoadhouseBlues


    Spring Onion wrote: »
    No, you can see already that most parents today are fairly blasé about religion. But the good thing is that the kids will question/research via the internet and are even more likely to pick holes in the "story". I imagine many file God alongside Santa, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, the Bogeyman (do we do this anymore?), Kaiser Sosé and Leprechauns a lot younger than we atheists did.

    Yeah I suppose information is more accessible now. I've always felt like a hypocrite when I have to go to church. I have no problem with people going but its not for me. I can't say the prayers because they don't mean anything to me. When my parents died, someone told me afterwards that they were watching me in the graveyard and I never said any prayers during it. I couldn't help it. Everyone is different I suppose.


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    #1403
    Dodd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Dodd


    People like soldiers would call around with toys but as soon as they left then the toys were taken away never to be seen again.


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    #1404
    RoadhouseBlues
    Closed Accounts Posts: 631 ✭✭✭RoadhouseBlues


    Dodd wrote: »
    Most people I grow up with that I have meet did not turn out to well.

    I will leave it at I would not want most calling to my home.

    It was a horrible and heartless thing they did to you and all those children Dodd. I will be hoping that you find something that makes you happy and gives you some peace of mind. And I'm sure all of the other people here wish you the same.


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    #1405
    sunbeam
    Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭sunbeam


    RoadhouseBlues wrote: »
    Well I went to school in the 80's and early 90's and to be honest I never heard about those homes until I was grown up. I suppose people didn't talk about them.

    I do remember in national school. I would have been about 8 or 9, and the teacher told us that babies who died before they were baptised didn't go to heaven. Now I cant remember how that subject came up, but it seems to be a strange thing to say to children.

    I remember I used to hate having to go to confession. I think its a horrible thing to have to do. But I used to make up things to tell the priest cos I didn't know what to say:-).

    There was one time though, I told the priest I didn't go to mass on Sunday morn cos I was up late on Sat night watching a movie. And that was true:-). Well he went mental. And this was the calmest priest you could ever meet. He told me it was a mortal sin and god knows what else. It seems fairly mild now though considering everything that has been found out.

    I never heard about Magdalene laundries until a college friend told me about them in 1990. I did a couple of Womens Studies modules as part of my BA and they were never mentioned. One of my secondary teachers had vaguely mentioned mother and baby homes, but even in the 80s the idea seemed very archaic to me.

    My late parents born in the early 30s always maintained that most children outside of wedlock 'around here' (the fringes of coastal Mayo) were kept and raised by their extended families and it was considered shameful to send a pregnant daughter away. Most likely wishful thinking on their parts I guess, but I certainly know some people now in their 60s and 70s who were kept by their families. When my mother was in hospital having me there was a teenage girl whose father came in and screamed at her that she wasn't coming back into the house unless she 'got rid of that child'. My mother was extremely appalled by this.

    My parents' generation were mostly poorly educated and terrified of the clergy. My dad always said you would cross the street out of fear if you saw a priest coming. He worked on the building sites in England with some of the survivors of the industrial homes and often recalled in quiet horror 'the terrible things that were done to kids in those places'. Not in any detail though-he died in the 90s before any of this was spoken about openly.

    I was lucky enough to have lay primary teachers in the 70s/80s who never laid a finger on us. For a while in secondary I was taught religion by well meaning elderly nun. I remember her telling us that even if a priest was bad man and did terrible things we must respect him as he had the power to change bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. Even at the time, she seemed a little bainwashed to me.


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    #1406
    Dodd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Dodd


    I spent 4/5 days outside the nuns office waiting for my punishment only for to never to happen.
    The days where bank holiday weekend so I was made go 9 to whenever the nun told me to leave when she was going to bed.

    I would have liked just to have been beaten rather then to wait days only to find out I was not going to be beating.


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    #1407
    RoadhouseBlues
    Closed Accounts Posts: 631 ✭✭✭RoadhouseBlues


    sunbeam wrote: »
    I never heard about Magdalene laundries until a college friend told me about them in 1990. I did a couple of Womens Studies modules as part of my BA and they were never mentioned. One of my secondary teachers had vaguely mentioned mother and baby homes, but even in the 80s the idea seemed very archaic to me.

    My late parents born in the early 30s always maintained that most children outside of wedlock 'around here' (the fringes of coastal Mayo) were kept and raised by their extended families and it was considered shameful to send a pregnant daughter away. Most likely wishful thinking on their parts I guess, but I certainly know some people now in their 60s and 70s who were kept by their families. When my mother was in hospital having me there was a teenage girl whose father came in and screamed at her that she wasn't coming back into the house unless she 'got rid of that child'. My mother was extremely appalled by this.

    My parents' generation were mostly poorly educated and terrified of the clergy. My dad always said you would cross the street out of fear if you saw a priest coming. He worked on the building sites in England with some of the survivors of the industrial homes and often recalled in quiet horror 'the terrible things that were done to kids in those places'. Not in any detail though-he died in the 90s before any of this was spoken about openly.

    I was lucky enough to have lay primary teachers in the 70s/80s who never laid a finger on us. For a while in secondary I was taught religion by well meaning elderly nun. I remember her telling us that even if a priest was bad man and did terrible things we must respect him as he had the power to change bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. Even at the time, she seemed a little bainwashed to me.

    It was only through television that I heard about them. They were never spoken about in our house. My granny used to tell me though that people were terrified of the priests. They thought that if you annoyed them, they had the power to stick you to the street. As in that you couldn't move. I would think it would be hard for the younger people today to understand the power they had over people back then. And when you actually think about it. Its not that long ago at all.


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    #1408
    Dodd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Dodd


    When I told my Dad later in his life what it was like he was shocked.
    He said that nun was good but that same nun sent us to the local shop to buy silver mints to cover the smell of drink she had every day.

    If you found her in a good mood she was good but otherwise she was a nightmare.

    Sorry I seem to be writing everything here that comes to mind from when I was in care.
    I have never had an out let before and will stop now.

    Thanks,bye.


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    #1409
    Waitsian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Waitsian


    Spring Onion wrote: »
    Corporal punishment was banned in 1982 but up until then they were lashing us with their weapon of choice (usually a leather strap) at will.


    Was this a CBS in the Republic? Because I went to the CBS in Newry, and brothers and lay teachers alike were still using leather straps there when I left school in 1988. I was last slapped like that in about '84-'85, but the younger lads were still getting it when I left.


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    #1410
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    I've encountered countless priests, nuns and brothers over the years. I'm struggling to remember any that weren't nice, gentle people. That's my story. Reminded of Jack Nicholson in "As Good As It Gets" - "most people have nice, pretty stories......"

    Why does this not surprise me :rolleyes:


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    #1411
    krankykitty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭krankykitty


    Families must share blame Irish Independent

    According to former mayor of Tuam, lots of babies were dying anyway so we shouldn't be pointing fingers at the homes


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