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Water meters install problem

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124

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    #92
    Colm R
    Registered Users Posts: 997 ✭✭✭Colm R


    Froststop wrote: »
    That's right Victor, they will only be on a drive-by system

    Does a drive by system mean remotely read from within X number of meters?

    If so, does that mean the meter needs a power supply?


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    #93
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Colm R wrote: »
    Does a drive by system mean remotely read from within X number of meters?

    If so, does that mean the meter needs a power supply?

    Yes, working by battery. In an estate for example, once the van is within range it will stop up and up-load the reads.


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    #94
    Scartbeg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Scartbeg


    Froststop wrote: »
    Yes, working by battery. In an estate for example, once the van is within range it will stop up and up-load the reads.

    We paid €800 for our mains connection including water meter when our house was built 18 months ago.

    Are they going to swap my meter out for one that can be read remotely, and charge me again for the privilege?


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    #95
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Scartbeg wrote: »
    We paid €800 for our mains connection including water meter when our house was built 18 months ago.

    Are they going to swap my meter out for one that can be read remotely, and charge me again for the privilege?

    Yes, I would assume the existing meter is only standard manual read and is not compatible with their new system. You probably have a boundary box fitted already if that's the case. I wouldn't allow them touch the existing one. If they will be charging the full price make them fit a complete kit. You could use the existing one to compare readings, both should provide the same consumption readings.

    There are a lot of house's with boundary boxes fitted but don't have meters, will they also have to pay the full price?
    IW won't have to dig to fit a boundary box or connect to the main. The new meter would only be fitted in the existing box.


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    #96
    Scartbeg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Scartbeg


    Froststop wrote: »
    Yes, I would assume the existing meter is only standard manual read and is not compatible with their new system. You probably have a boundary box fitted already if that's the case. I wouldn't allow them touch the existing one. If they will be charging the full price make them fit a complete kit. You could use the existing one to compare readings, both should provide the same consumption readings.

    There are a lot of house's with boundary boxes fitted but don't have meters, will they also have to pay the full price?
    IW won't have to dig to fit a boundary box or connect to the main. The new meter would only be fitted in the existing box.

    Not to mention I have modified the existing boundardy box to provide adequate frost protection - my pipes are all buried 3 feet down, and the meter will now be the weak point next time we have an extended period of sub-zero temperatures. The 4cm foam plug provided with the box is simply not up to the job, plus the meter brings the pipe to about 18 inches from the surface.


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    #97
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Scartbeg wrote: »
    Not to mention I have modified the existing boundardy box to provide adequate frost protection - my pipes are all buried 3 feet down, and the meter will now be the weak point next time we have an extended period of sub-zero temperatures. The 4cm foam plug provided with the box is simply not up to the job, plus the meter brings the pipe to about 18 inches from the surface.

    If the meters happen to freeze at any time, I would think they will surely burst. This was something IW considered but I guess they decided it was not their problem. I assume if the meter bursts after a freeze they won't accept liability.


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    #98
    anonanymore
    Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭anonanymore


    From the Irish water web site
    "The meter will be installed at the stopcock on the public footpath, and so while it is possible to read the meter it is not envisioned that you will need to do so. A drive-by meter reading will be conducted on meters by Irish Water staff."

    I will want to check the meter to see if my bill is correct, something I can do with my electricity bill.


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    #99
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    anonanymore wrote: »
    From the Irish water web site
    "The meter will be installed at the stopcock on the public footpath, and so while it is possible to read the meter it is not envisioned that you will need to do so. A drive-by meter reading will be conducted on meters by Irish Water staff."

    I will want to check the meter to see if my bill is correct, something I can do with my electricity bill.

    You would be right to do so!
    Bills will be monthly by all accounts, but reads will be quarterly. So two of the three bills will have to be estimated. IMO this will also make it more confusing for customers to monitor their usage to compare it to bills in case of any errors.


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    #100
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    The fact also remains, we are getting an outdated metering system which is now being taken out in the US. It's not all it's cracked up to be. They are opting for more modern systems which are more user friendly for both the customer & the utility.


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    #101
    DoesNotCompute
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭DoesNotCompute


    riclad wrote: »
    I think one meter costs 200 euro plus,
    if we get a bad winter, and 1000 ,s of them freeze, and break who ,
    is gonna pay repair bill.

    Are you saying an apartment block with 20 units ,is just going to have 1 meter?

    Surely Irish Water would have all their meters insured for such eventualities


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    #102
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    DoesNotCompute wrote: »
    Surely Irish Water would have all their meters insured for such eventualities

    That raises a good question, who is the owner of the meter?
    I would think the home owner as it's after the stopcock on the mains. I have not found anything to suggest Irish Water own the meters. Has anyone info regarding this?


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    #103
    DoesNotCompute
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭DoesNotCompute


    Froststop wrote: »
    That raises a good question, who is the owner of the meter?
    I would think the home owner as it's after the stopcock on the mains. I have not found anything to suggest Irish Water own the meters. Has anyone info regarding this?

    The homeowner (afaik) never "purchase" the meter from Irish Water. Therefore the homeowner doesn't own the meter - Irish Water do.


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    #104
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    DoesNotCompute wrote: »
    The homeowner (afaik) never "purchase" the meter from Irish Water. Therefore the homeowner doesn't own the meter - Irish Water do.

    I would agree, they are charging us over twenty years for "a" meter, so are we renting? Only problem is, a meter won't last twenty years IMO. Are they allowing to have to change meters before the term runs out, maybe three meters depending on quality of water.


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    #105
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,706 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    DoesNotCompute wrote: »
    Surely Irish Water would have all their meters insured for such eventualities

    There is a point of inevitability of claims sometimes where insurance costs more than covering the losses yourself. This is one of those.


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    #106
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,250 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Froststop wrote: »
    I assume if the meter bursts after a freeze they won't accept liability.
    Why wouldn't they?


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    #107
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Victor wrote: »
    Why wouldn't they?

    They won't IMO we'll have to wait and see. But here's todays news http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0109/496778-irish-water/ worth a read.


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    #108
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    "Irish Water CEO John Tierney has said the company spent €50m on consultants last year."

    Hmmm, Bet some of those consultants are involved in supplying the meters! IW mustn't have a clue about metering. Where did this money come from? "Property Tax!"

    "A decision on the final amount to be charged for water rates will be made by the end of August. Mr Tierney said existing charges for businesses are likely to rise in large urban areas. It also confirmed that Irish Water may also increase charges if it has higher than anticipated costs because of unforeseen events such as extreme weather conditions including droughts or big freezes."

    They are planing on raising the cost of bill even before they decide the actual cost!

    "Irish Water will have the power to restrict the flow of water to those who refuse to pay, which will be important in terms of bill collection."

    Would love to know how they plan on restricting water to individual homes! Without causing damage to appliances or worse scalding people using instant electric appliances.

    http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9%3A20502210%3A15036%3A09%2D01%2D2014%3A


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    #109
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,250 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    This is the Infrastructure Forum. Can we keep the thread on topic and not get into politics?

    Moderator

    This has nothing to do with property tax.


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    #110
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Victor wrote: »
    This is the Infrastructure Forum. Can we keep the thread on topic and not get into politics?

    Moderator

    This has nothing to do with property tax.

    Just stating the fact where the money is coming from to pay for the metering program!


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    #111
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    Froststop wrote: »
    "Irish Water CEO John Tierney has said the company spent €50m on consultants last year."

    Think Accenture is one of those consultants. They have recruited and trained people to go into the councils to prepare the transition.
    Hmmm, Bet some of those consultants are involved in supplying the meters! IW mustn't have a clue about metering. Where did this money come from? "Property Tax!"
    Presume it would come from central funds.
    "A decision on the final amount to be charged for water rates will be made by the end of August. Mr Tierney said existing charges for businesses are likely to rise in large urban areas. It also confirmed that Irish Water may also increase charges if it has higher than anticipated costs because of unforeseen events such as extreme weather conditions including droughts or big freezes."

    They are planing on raising the cost of bill even before they decide the actual cost!

    This is frankly unacceptable. It should already be factored into the cost. It means that IW have no incentive to run and maintain an efficient system.
    "Irish Water will have the power to restrict the flow of water to those who refuse to pay, which will be important in terms of bill collection."

    Would love to know how they plan on restricting water to individual homes! Without causing damage to appliances or worse scalding people using instant electric appliances.

    http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9%3A20502210%3A15036%3A09%2D01%2D2014%3A

    They'd isolate supply at the meter as they can do now. One assumes that the householder would be well informed that they are being cut off.


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    #112
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Five Lamps wrote: »
    They'd isolate supply at the meter as they can do now. One assumes that the householder would be well informed that they are being cut off.

    Yes but how do they propose to isolate at the meter?


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    #113
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    Froststop wrote: »
    Yes but how do they propose to isolate at the meter?

    Almost every premises today can be isolated from a valve on the street. I presume that the meter will be inline with the valve.


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    #114
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Five Lamps wrote: »
    Almost every premises today can be isolated from a valve on the street. I presume that the meter will be inline with the valve.

    So do you think they will just shut the stop valve? Or will they dig the street to do it at the actual council main?


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    #115
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    Froststop wrote: »
    So do you think they will just shut the stop valve? Or will they dig the street to do it at the actual council main?

    I presume that there will be a system that would be on the lines of disconnecting other utilities such as gas. Some sort of mechanical lock put on the supply near the meter. You don't need to dig up the street to do this.


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    #116
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Five Lamps wrote: »
    I presume that there will be a system that would be on the lines of disconnecting other utilities such as gas. Some sort of mechanical lock put on the supply near the meter. You don't need to dig up the street to do this.

    Can't lock the stop cock in case of needing to turn off in an emergency or disconnect without digging.


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    #117
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    Froststop wrote: »
    Can't lock the stop cock in case of needing to turn off in an emergency or disconnect without digging.

    Surely if the meter is locked then the water supply is already isolated/disconnected so there would be no situation that you describe.


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    #118
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Five Lamps wrote: »
    Surely if the meter is locked then the water supply is already isolated/disconnected so there would be no situation that you describe.

    The water can't be turn off 100% by IW. They have to allow enough for human consumption as it's a legal right. According to United Nations A/RES/64/292

    Your statement also raises the question of who actually owns the meter box?

    The stopcock is a control valve to a building! That's like locking the electrical box and needing to turn it off in the event of an potential electrical accident/problem.

    I'm risking Victor coming at me now as we're going off topic!!!


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    #119
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    Froststop wrote: »
    The water can't be turn off 100% by IW. They have to allow enough for human consumption as it's a legal right. According to United Nations A/RES/64/292

    Let's call it a restrictor - whether it stops the flow completely or substantially reduces pressure.

    You'd be pushing it quoting a UN resolution. It's aimed at tackling a real issue in the developing world. So even if you were to stretch it to Ireland, I can't see how your rights would be infringed when you can go pop into a German discounter and buy 5L of drinking water for very little.
    Your statement also raises the question of who actually owns the meter box?

    Would have thought that was Irish Water. Electric and gas meters are the property of the respective networks.
    The stopcock is a control valve to a building! That's like locking the electrical box and needing to turn it off in the event of an potential electrical accident/problem.

    I'm risking Victor coming at me now as we're going off topic!!!

    Yes and for most people that valve is already outside on the street under a cover marked 'uisce'. This is addition to an internal stopcock. Plus if the supply it's already restricted or completely off then what emergency situation would arise? Even if for some reason (and I can't think of one) supply needed to be restored then I'm sure IW would have emergency crews available to do so in the same way that other utility network companies respond to emergency situations.


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    #120
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Five Lamps wrote: »
    Let's call it a restrictor - whether it stops the flow completely or substantially reduces pressure.

    You can call it what you like! They would have to dig to fit a restrictor. Can't see them going to that expense. I have connected enough mains water pipes to council stopcocks to know. Have you seen a boundary box, and what's inside?
    Five Lamps wrote: »
    You'd be pushing it quoting a UN resolution. It's aimed at tackling a real issue in the developing world. So even if you were to stretch it to Ireland, I can't see how your rights would be infringed when you can go pop into a German discounter and buy 5L of drinking water for very little.

    This is the reason we are being screwed. Have we any right, may as well be dead! If they told you in the morning to jump off a cliff because it was law would you do it? No you'd find every loophole to avoid it!
    Five Lamps wrote: »
    Would have thought that was Irish Water. Electric and gas meters are the property of the respective networks.

    So are we buying the meters for €800 or renting them?
    Five Lamps wrote: »
    Yes and for most people that valve is already outside on the street under a cover marked 'uisce'. This is addition to an internal stopcock. Plus if the supply it's already restricted or completely off then what emergency situation would arise? Even if for some reason (and I can't think of one) supply needed to be restored then I'm sure IW would have emergency crews available to do so in the same way that other utility network companies respond to emergency situations.

    From what I'm aware, they will be changing out the existing stopcock and replacing it for the new boundary box complete with meter and stopcock inside. So if they lock it, then they are preventing access to the stopcock. If they restrict the flow, and if a problem develops then the home owner can't access the stopcock to turn off water to allow for a repair in the building.


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    #121
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    Froststop wrote: »
    You can call it what you like! They would have to dig to fit a restrictor. Can't see them going to that expense. I have connected enough mains water pipes to council stopcocks to know. Have you seen a boundary box, and what's inside?

    Isn't it already there? On my street, every house has one out on the pavement. I haven't seen any of these new meters but if IW are claiming they can switch off non payers then they must have the ability integrated into the meter. Or perhaps they'll use the existing street valves if already present. They'll own those as well.
    This is the reason we are being screwed. Have we any right, may as well be dead! If they told you in the morning to jump off a cliff because it was law would you do it? No you'd find every loophole to avoid it!

    Your rights aren't infringed at all. A clean water and sanitation supply is being delivered to your front door. The UN right doesn't imply that access has to be free of charge. It only has to be affordable.
    So are we buying the meters for €800 or renting them?

    I presume the installation and use of it?

    From what I'm aware, they will be changing out the existing stopcock and replacing it for the new boundary box complete with meter and stopcock inside. So if they lock it, then they are preventing access to the stopcock. If they restrict the flow, and if a problem develops then the home owner can't access the stopcock to turn off water to allow for a repair in the building.

    Most homes have an internal stop cock to handle the situation you describe.


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