Is the fear of Paedophilia preventing positive male role models?

nucker · 09-11-2012 12:05pm

smash wrote: »

Go back and have a read before typing. I don't "want to easily condemn men" :rolleyes: And I was asked for ways to combat the issue, which I gave. One of only 2 people who have actually given any I might add. so I've added more than most to be fair.

Combat the issue? How is that? You've talk about a scenario in a park where a photographer with a zoom lens is taking photos of children, firstly how would you know that the person is taking photos of children? Do you have the right on anyone for that person to show you any photos of theirs? Secondly, coming up with scenarios like that is likely to feed people's fear of their children's safety being harmed, with you coming up with statistics means nothing because the statistics have come out of people who have committed crimes against children.

Yes men have committed crimes against children, but so have women and not necessarily with the opposite sex, its like saying that if a man should be put on trial for paedophilia you should find them guilty because women are blameless

smash · 09-11-2012 12:11pm

nucker wrote: »

Combat the issue? How is that?

Like I said, go back and read. No point replying to you any more if you can't do that.

nucker · 09-11-2012 12:25pm

smash wrote: »

Like I said, go back and read. No point replying to you any more if you can't do that.

And its no point in replying to you either, all you do is throw out scenarios that are meaningless and could get a load of innocent people into trouble if not into a dangerous situation. If I brought this thread and particularly your post to a photography site, I think they would love to have a word with you....but I'm not because you know you have nothing to answer for your incredulous rubbish that you have spewed out. Then you've spewed out statistics that you're now inclined not to answer for because you know its rubbish. So put it lightly why should I answer for you if you can't answer my last post?

smash · 09-11-2012 1:02pm

nucker wrote: »

And its no point in replying to you either, all you do is throw out scenarios that are meaningless and could get a load of innocent people into trouble if not into a dangerous situation. If I brought this thread and particularly your post to a photography site, I think they would love to have a word with you....but I'm not because you know you have nothing to answer for your incredulous rubbish that you have spewed out. Then you've spewed out statistics that you're now inclined not to answer for because you know its rubbish. So put it lightly why should I answer for you if you can't answer my last post?

From a photography side it's a different argument. And you realise it's been mentioned numerous times on the photography forum don't you? Even recently there was a thread where it actually happened, which I linked to here and specifically said that if it was a women there probably wouldn't have been a problem. Then again you'd know this if you bothered reading the thread.

walshb · 09-11-2012 2:30pm

nucker wrote: »

But you haven't added anything apart from statistics, they are really meaningless. So stating and only believing in statistics you want to easily condemn men because it's statistically higher and only because of that reason?

Statistics are not meaningless. They have been used for centuries by humas to shape and manage our lives.

iptba · 09-11-2012 4:17pm

Early in the thread, I made a distinction between the fear of witches and the fear of being accused of being a witch. The witch/witch hunt theme showed up in something I just read:

http://mikesivier.wordpress.com/2012/11/08/why-is-david-cameron-tarring-gay-people-with-the-same-brush-as-paedophiles/

Back in 17th century America, witchcraft was the taboo; in 1950s America, it was Communism. Now, here, it’s paedophilia. The link between them is that an accusation automatically led to the belief that the named person was guilty of the crime, whether they had committed it or not.

I know a man who is in prison at the moment after being convicted of abusing a child. I was at the trial and heard all the evidence and I am convinced that he did not do it. It’s my opinion that the accusation was enough to sway the jury. The gentleman concerned won an appeal against an intial conviction, at which the presiding judge overturned the verdict after asking for the factual evidence on which the defendant had been convicted and being told there was none. He sent it back for retrial and the jury convicted him again – as I say - because in my opinion he was accused of the modern version of witchcraft. Or Communism.

No organisation exists to represent the interests of a person who has been wrongly convicted of paedophilia. Once a person has been tarred with that brush, it sticks to them for life.

(bolding by blogger)

Piliger · 09-11-2012 5:01pm

Zulu wrote: »

So in short:
it's acceptable to prejudge men as pedos (as the statistics dictate men to be higher risk)

men aren't discouraged from being role models for children as a consequence of this prejudice (contrary to posts from men on this very thread)

Smash you are talking grade A shite.

I'm outta here.

Don't leave .... you and Corinthian ... just STOP feeding those who are undermining the discussion! FFS. This is an important discussion and an important topic.

iptba · 17-11-2013 4:07am

From the Sydney Morning Herald:

Why men must not be terrorists of the playground

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/why-men-must-not-be-terrorists-of-the-playground-20131109-2x8bo.html#ixzz2kruPUKne

hsianloon · 27-11-2013 8:44pm

Babysitted my niece before, as her parents were both away for an adults only function (some business dinner etc) Im in my 20s and she was I think..8 then. It was the first time I babysitted myself, and I picked her from her arts class in the mall. Her parents had already informed the teachers there who would be picking her up etc, but the mums and teachers instantly casted a shady eye on me.

This obviously annoyed me, and one even said '' are you sure its safe to let her go to with this man?'' out loud. Think of the lady in Simpsons who always shout ''won't somebody think of the children?!''

The useless teacher, instead of explaining what the situation was, kept quiet and looked away as though she had been caught red handed being part of some child abduction plot.

I just said loudly to the lady that if she had some daddy/uncle/brother issues in the past, perhaps she best take it up with the police ( not gardai where I come from ) or her psychiatrists. That shut her up, but I didn't like having to do it, it wasn't something I'd usually do, but the attack I received was just so vicious that I felt if I didn't stop in the next moment, one of the women would have been dialling the police by then.

My niece ran off from the teacher and shouted my name loudly the way only an excited 8 year old at a candy store could. (Only see her once a year during festive seasons usually )

She's taught by her parents to always hold on to an adults hand so that they don't get separated. So she tenaciously clung to me throughout the day, and even then after lunch and an ice cream, I could still feel stares.

So lads, my opinion is that; Don't let some vigilante soccer mums get in the way of developing relationships with your relatives. At the same time, be sure it's one that has been developed before, eg in family situations etc. It's always better if the child is already very fond of you, a loud declaration that you're someone they trust is usually enough to shush vigilantes looking for a chance to sit on the moral high horse for the day

iptba · 09-02-2014 4:56am

Another article from Australia:

Give us blokes the benefit of the doubt

The Daily Telegraph
January 27, 2014 7:37PM
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/give-us-blokes-the-benefit-of-the-doubt/story-fni0cwl5-1226811529837

iptba · 11-03-2014 3:43am

(from the Daily Telegraph)

No, men are not all potential paedophiles

Hysteria surrounding paedophilia is making men think twice about putting themselves in situations where others might suspect they are some sort of pervert, says Martin Daubney
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/10669864/No-men-are-not-all-potential-paedophiles.html

Waking-Dreams · 14-03-2014 4:31pm

I watched ‘The Hunt’ the other night for the first time. Bloody excellent film; you can really see how things can spiral out of control. As a consequence, it really made me cautious around the area of Social Care that I would like to work in when I graduate. There’s currently a dearth of males working in the sector, which means job opportunities should be better, but when you see how an allegation can grow a pair of legs and run away with itself, it doesn’t matter how innocent you are, you’re fcuked if someone makes an allegation.

I do sometimes despair at some of the pseudoscientific material we are taught in class as part of education. Understandably, children can be extremely vulnerable and need to be protected where they are at risk but trying to dispel the more outlandish ideas from what has been verified as ‘evidence based practice’ is fraught with difficulty. And when you have social work students who claim they have psychic powers, you start to get very worried about the consequences for everyone involved.

iptba · 14-03-2014 4:38pm

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

I watched ‘The Hunt’ the other night for the first time. Bloody excellent film; you can really see how things can spiral out of control.

For anyone interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hunt_(2012_film)#Plot

ulinbac · 15-03-2014 11:50pm

There does seem to be some fear in general society towards men and children.

I have rarely seen it personally even though kids seem to take a shine to me. It's the same with my dad. All the kids in my family say they like us "the best"

.

When on the tube or a shop I tend to get kids staring/smiling at me when stuck in a buggy or holding the parents hand, so always make stupid faces and get them to smile or laugh. The parents get a laugh out of it and have only once got an angry look from a mother.

My gf gets a great kick out of it when she is with me (hopefully cause it's not making her broody

)

silverbolt · 17-03-2014 1:02am

Rocommon certainly isnt that bad at all for things like this. Thankfully

I spent ten years in birmingham and id let a child walk under a bus before i touched or spoke to one.

Its not worth the risk

Seriously? · 17-03-2014 1:28pm

Its terrible that it has come to this, but really men need to wise up and starting thinking about themselves in a situation like this.

Better to flag a woman and point out a child in distress letting them deal with it. You don't neccessarily have to do nothing, you can help by proxy.

ancapailldorcha · 17-03-2014 2:03pm

Seriously? wrote: »

Its terrible that it has come to this, but really men need to wise up and starting thinking about themselves in a situation like this.

Better to flag a woman and point out a child in distress letting them deal with it. You don't neccessarily have to do nothing, you can help by proxy.

That's not always an option. I was walking home in the evening once and a small girl was riding a tricycle in front of me. She fell over and began crying. I crossed the road and continued on my way. Sad, but there was no-one around for me to contact short of knocking on people's doors.

youtube! · 17-03-2014 3:23pm

It's difficult when a natural instinct to protect a person child or otherwise takes over. To give an example.

Last year I had the bad luck to be in the waiting area of AandE when a small 2 year old child, in this case a girl, came running full speed away from her mother who was caught off-guard for the slightest second, right into my path.

I was sitting on a chair but this kid had she gotten past me was heading straight into a metal surgical type table that was just at her head height and had sharp corners and all sorts of syringes and needles etc along with medical liquids and god knows what else, to be honest I didn't even give it a second thought my natural instinct to prevent a danger to another living creature took over and I just stood up and grabbed her around the waist to stop her potentially injuring herself, her mother was all apologies and very grateful to me, I have also prevented a kid running out in front of a car and put my hands on a child who was about to tumble down some concrete steps.

These are just the most recent occasions I can recall but I am sure there have been more, I just don't understand how anyone can wilfully see a child suffer or possibly die and stand idly by, I am not that guy.

Seriously? · 18-03-2014 3:05pm

youtube! wrote: »

I just don't understand how anyone can wilfully see a child suffer or possibly die and stand idly by

I think most people (myself included) would do something if a child (or even a women) was in real danger, but if they're just distressed then caution is better part of valour.

helimachoptor · 24-03-2014 10:22am

Yes its the daily mail, but interesting all the same

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2587547/Walk-Britain-Two-little-girls-pretend-lost-busy-shopping-centre-So-people-stop-help-One-How-ignore-plight-616.html

Pawwed Rig · 24-03-2014 10:38am

helimachoptor wrote: »

Yes its the daily mail, but interesting all the same

That reminds me of a time I was in the Square in Tallaght with a gf. We had just gone in one of the doors and saw a little boy who was obviously lost (looking scared and walking slowly against the shop window looking around). I crouched down and asked him was his Mammy lost and he said he couldn't find her etc on the verge of tears (he was about 3 btw).
I told him we should goto a security guard and get them to call his mother for him. Now going to a security guard involved going back to the entrance of the centre and an image of Jamie Bolger being lead out of a similar centre by the hand sprung into my mind. Also, I had to wonder if his parents came back while I was leading him towards the exit what kind of reception would I have gotten.
Luckily as I said a gf was with me so I told her to hold his hand while I went and got the guard.
Long story short the parents had not gone far when they realise he was gone and came back within a minute but I would have to say that I can understand someone walking on by.

iptba · 23-06-2014 2:11am

Another example of attitudes out there:

I'm a SAH* Dad who RSVPed to playground event. Organizer panicked that I wasn't female and cancelled the event!
http://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/comments/28ka05/im_a_sah_dad_who_rsvped_to_playground_event/

*Stay-At-Home

iptba · 06-12-2014 4:44am

3 December 2014 article

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/turning-all-adults-into-panto-villains/16285#.VIJ5octyaUk

Turning all adults into panto villains

Josie Appleton
Manifesto Club

It is a tragic fact that today’s child-protection culture and related laws often have the perverse consequence of leading decent adults to withdraw from interacting with children.

Examples abound: people say they would not stop to help a child in trouble for fear of being labelled an abuser; hobby clubs close their doors to under-18s; and volunteers, be they at sports clubs or youth clubs, say that they will no longer put themselves ‘at risk’ by working with children.

continues at:

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/turning-all-adults-into-panto-villains/16285#.VIJ5octyaUk

iptba · 14-12-2014 7:23am

Perhaps not an exact fit for this thread but of the current threads, this seemed the best fit:

Parents warned of dangers of Santa’s lap

The Courier-Mail
December 07, 2014 1:00AM

THE traditional Christmas family souvenir is under threat with parents and child protection advocates arguing Santa’s lap should be off limits to kids.

continues at:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/parents-warned-of-dangers-of-santas-lap/story-e6frf7jo-1227147152740?nk=177248ac976a9acb1795321c1f6424a4

Pawwed Rig · 14-12-2014 8:33am

That story makes me sad.
The general use of the words 'parent' and 'mothers' is also sensationalist

iptba · 10-05-2015 4:23pm

(May 8 article)

'OK people, take a look at this creep!': Man who mum shamed on Facebook because she thought he was taking photos of her kids... was just taking a selfie in front of a Darth Vader display to show HIS children

- A woman has mistakenly labelled a man 'a creep' on social media

- The mother, from Melbourne's east, believed he was taking picture of her children so she photographed him and posted his image to Facebook

- The man eventually contacted police to explain he was taking a selfie

- The father-of-three said he and his children were devastated by the ordeal

By Sarah Michael for Daily Mail Australia

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3073095/Mother-mistakenly-shames-dad-thought-taking-photos-kids-Facebook-post-shared-hundreds-actually-taking-selfie-Star-Wars-display-children.html#ixzz3ZkX1rUXe

bb1234567 · 11-05-2015 11:27pm

Piliger wrote: »

I deeply sympathise. It is an appalling situation we are now in and I know exactly how you feel.

When my son was about 18 months and I was a home carer for him we lived in a small well developed cul de sac development. everyone knew everyone in a wonderful way.

Several of the local small children used to come and visit my son in an afternoon from time to time, because he was such a cute fella. Some girls and some boys ... all about 4 or 5 I guess. They used to play games with him and have little pretend parties with him.
One little girl was very friendly and affectionate and would always kiss me goodbye with a hug. I knew her parents.

One day I was arriving home to my house in my car and she was walking by ... her mother was in her car waiting for her to hop in to go shopping presumably. On her way past the car she stopped at my open window and said a big hi (my son was in the car with me) and gave me a hug. She then went to her mother's car.

That girl never returned to my house again, and two months later I heard from another neighbour that she had labelled me as 'dodgy' and banned her child from returning. Thank goodness I had wonderful neighbours. Over the following years several told me of this story and assured me they didn't pay any attention to this lady who moved out of the estate four months after this incident (...).
Had I not had such great neighbours I hesitate what might have happened. I felt physically sick when this happened and I have lost count of experiences my friends and colleagues have recounted to me over the years ( I am 50+, many here are younger and are only starting to experience these things)

Disgraceful. Im only 19 and my mum has friends with young children , they'd be quite giddy and always jumping up on top of me when Im lying on the couch. It makes me really uncomfortable and I gently push them off for fear somebody would think I was enjoying it, in that kind of way

iptba · 18-05-2015 11:48pm

iptba wrote: »

(May 8 article)

'OK people, take a look at this creep!': Man who mum shamed on Facebook because she thought he was taking photos of her kids... was just taking a selfie in front of a Darth Vader display to show HIS children

- A woman has mistakenly labelled a man 'a creep' on social media

- The mother, from Melbourne's east, believed he was taking picture of her children so she photographed him and posted his image to Facebook

- The man eventually contacted police to explain he was taking a selfie

- The father-of-three said he and his children were devastated by the ordeal

By Sarah Michael for Daily Mail Australia

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3073095/Mother-mistakenly-shames-dad-thought-taking-photos-kids-Facebook-post-shared-hundreds-actually-taking-selfie-Star-Wars-display-children.html#ixzz3ZkX1rUXe

Article on this:
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/technology/men-feeling-under-siege-after-revelation-man-was-wrongly-accused-on-facebook-of-being-a-creep/story-fnjwnzal-1227347049059

Disturbingly he said someone on the street shouted out to him “sicko” when he walking to enter the police station.

“I fully expected to come home to find my house torched or something worse,” he said.

It ends:

“People need top be responsible for what they post on social media.”

His thoughts were echoed by many of our readers as the story was shared thousands of times.

“This is why men are no longer helping women out,” said reader Steven, who is now wary of helping children in public.

“I had a toddler fall at my feet at the local shopping centre and I started to bend down the help the poor kid up, I got the worst death stare from the ... mother,” he said.

“So I backed off & left (the child) there sprawled on the ground with its ice cream smeared all over the floor, and it was crying inconsolably ...

“I won’t be pausing to help ever again,” he said.

HAVE YOUR SAY: Have you been wrongly accused? Tell us below

Alan said: “I was at a Woolies checkout and a female child of about 9-10yrs old was looking at me from another checkout 3 down and started to smile at me as I looked in her direction.

“Yes, I smiled back and the mother immediately looked at me as if I was some sort of child molester. Can you believe that she followed me around the shopping centre and even out to my car.

“Don’t know if she took my pic or other details, but it sure made me feel uneasy. I’m a friendly 60 yr old male so it must be assumed that I am a pervert or worse.”

Craig commented: “I, as others have mentioned, will not help out women or children because of this. What a shockingly sad world we now live in. Everyone for themselves and trust no one”.

Since the story was posted on Facebook it has been shared more than 100 times, with hundreds of comments.

Dominic Nixon posted on Facebook: “And people wonder why there are no male primary school teachers ...”.

Chris, on Facebook, said: “I was at the park with my grandchild, girl falls of the swing next to me no way I was picking her up. Sad, sad world.”

Dean said: “Men are guilty until proven innocent in the eyes of many women today and I hope the guilty hang their head in shame.”

Melbourne dad Clint Greagen, who blogs at Reservoir Dad, said it was at the back of his mind when he was out and about with his children, and alone about how be was perceived by other people.

“You tend to try and give a smile or a nod so that you don’t come across as looking creepy,” Mr Greagen said.

Mr Greagan said it was often negative stories that were shared thousands of times on social media.

“Maleness in itself is not a crime or an illness of something we have to fight against,” Mr Greagan said.

Seriously? · 19-05-2015 9:39am

The interesting thing is this effects females as well, though naturally they remain the victim in all of this.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/why-some-male-members-of-congress-won-t-be-alone-with-female-staffers-20150514

I'll be honest in my place of work I ensure that I'm rarely placed in a position of having to work with a female on my own. Quite frankly it's not worth placing myself in a position where the default assumption is I'd be to blame.

So I can't blame these congress members(or it seems their aids) for ensuring that they also are not placed in potentially compromising situations.

Is the fear of Paedophilia preventing positive male role models?

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