The Breast Feeding Support Thread

holding · 22-09-2013 8:25pm

Looks like that is a 'stormy' period on the Wonder Weeks chart, Dublin Lady. mzl.ujdlfbub.640x960-75.jpg

Is there room in your baby's new room for you to sleep? Drastic I know but if you really want to keep sleeping together it might be an option. We are in similar dilemma right now, little guy is coming up on 6 months and the advice is to move him to his own room but we just don't feel ready yet so going to keep him in our room a bit longer

Re the work, could you try reverse cycling too so that you have less expressing to do? Might be a bit less hassle in terms of washing and sterlising all the stuff.

Edit: whoah that image is huge

holding · 22-09-2013 8:38pm

I posted this in the milk bank thread but thought it would be useful here too, esp the phone number, which I found difficult to source myself. If it's not okay to repost posts mods, feel free to remove it, but maybe keep the phone number? Thanks a mil.

I recently started donating to the milk bank, it has been a great experience. I rang them on 0044 2868628333 and answered a short questionnaire over the phone (things like do I smoke, how much coffee/ alcohol do I drink, age, etc). Your baby must be 6 months old or less to donate, and the minimum donation is three litres. A couple of days later they posted me a box with 12 7oz bottles that had been pre-sterilized. Once I have filled those, I give them a call to organise sending them back. The lady on the phone was very nice and helpful. They are extremely grateful for any donation. There is so little milk that it is prioritized for very sick preemies and can really turn their chances around. I had no idea this existed until a couple of months ago and would have done it sooner had I known. Thought a post here might spread the word a bit

Oral Slang · 23-09-2013 10:41am

liliq wrote: »

Multimams will help heal the crack, lanolin can sometimes not be the best. Coconut oil can help too and is a natural anti fungal (and useful for so mnay things!)
I 100% agree with emailing Jack Newman, he is amazing.

Has everyone heard that he will be speaking at the La Leche League Conference in Maynooth in March? CAN NOT WAIT!

And... we've made it to two years! Can't believe my little man is two years old today! HSE and WHO guideliens met? Check

Congrats Liliq, a great achievement. We've 3.5 weeks to go (exactly a month behind you).

I'm trying to wean her before number two arrives in November - 32 weeks today. She's down to 1 feed a day, going to bed. Last night I asked her if we'd just snuggle, but she was having none of it. Just don't know how to get rid of that feed at all, unless I leave the house every night, but she takes hours to go asleep for my other half when I'm not there. Out tomorrow night & Saturday night, so thinking if I disappear for 2 or 3 nights a week at bedtime, maybe she'll stop asking for it every night & we'll just let it slowly dwindle. I know I could tandem feed, but would prefer not to & my other half would prefer us to stop. He wouldn't push it that much, but I know we've almost hitting the HSE & Who guidelines, so I'm more than happy if we could stop without tears.

NextSteps · 23-09-2013 11:24am

Holding, did you have to take a blood test or anything to donate?

wolfpawnat · 23-09-2013 11:38am

My little girl had her first injections today. Poor little mite was hysterical, 3 seconds after the second injection I put her on the boob, happy again.

holding · 23-09-2013 8:36pm

NextSteps wrote: »

Holding, did you have to take a blood test or anything to donate?

No I didn't NextSteps. I'm not 100% sure (haven't finished reading the literature that came with the bottles yet!) but I think I might have to send one back with the milk when I return it. I'll let you know.

dublinlady · 24-09-2013 2:06pm

I hate expressing at work. So much. It's really upsetting me - I feel like I want to wean and then I feel awful about that because I really don't want to. It's really only 1 or two feeds a day and not every day and it is driving me demented. I actually hate it. And I finding the questions damaging my confidence - how long are you going to keep this up for etc? I'm embarrassed and feel awkward. Then I'm annoyed I feel like that. I love feeding my baby - more then anything else - but it's not possible for me to feed her all the time and I hate hate hate expressing at work. I don't know how it works to do 1 two or 3 feeds a day - sone times I work mornings , sometimes evenings. How can I make this work. I'm all over the place and this is causing stress.

P.s sorry that's such a rant... Bad moment

skit490 · 24-09-2013 4:35pm

Know how u feel re the questions dublin lady. I dont want stop yet but at same time im wrecked. Little one comfort feeds during night. And occassional night out doesnt work either as she justv wants me wen im home.. I just wish i could have bit of flexibility plus my pump broke n not sure if should get another one. She is 1 so not sure what to replacevfeeds with either

dublinlady wrote: »

I hate expressing at work. So much. It's really upsetting me - I feel like I want to wean and then I feel awful about that because I really don't want to. It's really only 1 or two feeds a day and not every day and it is driving me demented. I actually hate it. And I finding the questions damaging my confidence - how long are you going to keep this up for etc? I'm embarrassed and feel awkward. Then I'm annoyed I feel like that. I love feeding my baby - more then anything else - but it's not possible for me to feed her all the time and I hate hate hate expressing at work. I don't know how it works to do 1 two or 3 feeds a day - sone times I work mornings , sometimes evenings. How can I make this work. I'm all over the place and this is causing stress.

P.s sorry that's such a rant... Bad moment

wolfpawnat · 24-09-2013 6:10pm

Brought S to a hospital check-up today. They are unhappy with her weight gain and mentioned expressing more often and making sure to get at least another ounce in her after she finishes suckling. Then she suggested if that doesn't work going on combined feeding. When I told her about my LO's reaction to formula, she just said "I shouldn't say this, but SMA is best" kinda annoyed after all that, I thought we were doing great, loads of wet nappies, bright and alert.

How Strange · 24-09-2013 6:38pm

dublinlady your supply is established now so the odd formula feed shouldn't affect it if you chose to do that while working. In a few weeks she'll be six months so she'll be taking solids and she can have water while she's being minded/away from you. She'll get all she needs nutritionally if you feed on demand at other times. 4-5 feeds in 24 hours is sufficient, nutritionally, for a 6 month old.

Wolfpawnat would you contact la Leche or Cuidiu? What exactly do they mean by not being happy with weight gain? Are they using the new charts for breastfed babies. Please don't let them shake your confidence now. There's always a breastfeeding solution to a breastfeeding problem so get the proper support you need to inform yourself. I think the fact that they said SMA is the best really speaks volumes about their knowledge about breastfeeding and their support of it.

wolfpawnat · 24-09-2013 6:57pm

How Strange wrote: »

Wolfpawnat would you contact la Leche or Cuidiu? What exactly do they mean by not being happy with weight gain? Are they using the new charts for breastfed babies. Please don't let them shake your confidence now. There's always a breastfeeding solution to a breastfeeding problem so get the proper support you need to inform yourself. I think the fact that they said SMA is the best really speaks volumes about their knowledge about breastfeeding and their support of it.

I am not sure what charts she used, I will have to see next week. She noticed her weight had dropped a fair percentile, about 10-20. S is doing well and is happy so I feel she is alright. She is dainty so all her percentiles are low, they seem so obsessed with weight and not overall. I dunno, I think I am just annoyed since I have a cold, I have 2 doc appointments this week alone in the hospital and now another next week and my son is misbehaving in school. It's all adding up and pulling me down

dublinlady · 24-09-2013 8:16pm

Thanks how strange - how many feeds is enough for a 19 week old I wonder? If I feed her at 7.30am - express around 1pm feed her at 6pm and 10pm would that be enough to keep my supply up for the days I'm not working so can feed her myself? I would also feed her during night if she looks for it ( does every night around 4.30am)
So she would feed at 7.30 am, 10.30ish expressed, 2pm (expressed or formula) 6pm, 10pm and then if she wanted during night. So on the days I'm working I would be one feed down. I've been terrified to go longer than 3/4 hours during day without expressing incase I loose my milk and then when I'm trying to feed her at that time next day she's not satisfied.... She's a hungry monkey!

dublinlady · 24-09-2013 8:19pm

Wolfpawnat - that sounds iffy to me too - if she has lots of wet nappies and is satisfied it sounds ok? I didn't really get S weighed alot - only at 1,2,8,17 weeks cos she was blatantly well and happy. Saying that u don't want to miss a health issue but I doubt it would be as a result if breastfeeding... ? Would it be easier to try feed her more ofter during day rather than supplementing at feeds when it's going so well?
Hope your sons ok - it's hard to keep everything going so I hope ur not too tired

pwurple · 24-09-2013 9:38pm

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I am not sure what charts she used, I will have to see next week. She noticed her weight had dropped a fair percentile, about 10-20. S is doing well and is happy so I feel she is alright. She is dainty so all her percentiles are low, they seem so obsessed with weight and not overall. I dunno, I think I am just annoyed since I have a cold, I have 2 doc appointments this week alone in the hospital and now another next week and my son is misbehaving in school. It's all adding up and pulling me down

Some phn's are obsessed with weight charts. My GP told me to ignore the public health nurses rant about charts as long as the baby was gaining some weight, even if it's only a small bit. My baby was always in the low percentiles as well. My mum said it was obvious the baby was healthy from looking at her, as did the GP, so I felt ok to ignore the nurse.

My sister in law encountered a nurse who wasn't a fan of breastfeeding either, she took those lectures right to heart and kept on feeding and offerning more boob when the baby wasn't looking for it. Overeating past appetite is a tough habit for a child to break once you have trained them into doing it. that baby has grown into an obese 4 year old.

wolfpawnat · 24-09-2013 9:55pm

That's the thing pwurple, she was a paediatric registrar in the Rotunda, not just a nurse. She is healthy and alert, taking in everything. I tried doing the suggestion the doctor said about feeding her after she finished on the breast, she just spat it all up again.No one fills themselves more than is comfortable. Babies are the same.

Nead21 · 24-09-2013 11:51pm

Having the same sort of issues Wolfpawnat. While my PHN is lovely and very supportive of bf the charts are getting to me. My 5month old is long and lean. Like your baby, bright and alert plenty of wet and dirty nappies and hes meeting all his milestones early... And LOVES the boob! I have to bring him back again in couple of weeks to be weighted.

Why does only chubby babies mean healthy babies? Surely genetics comes into it. Im tall is slim with long legs...É looks like hes the same.

DL I feel your pain...im back to work in 3wks and not sure how im going to manage :-(

How Strange · 25-09-2013 6:31am

DL if she wants more she'll soon let you know and probably around 2am!

There are new charts out now since January and all healthcare professionals should be using them. Wolfpawnat next time you're there check what charts she's using. Sadly our healthcare professionals have little or no training on breastfeeding and breastfed babies. They are also inadvertently influences by the pharma companies who make the formula as they often run training/info seminars, give out literature and products for free. They may not even realise it but the message that breastmilk isn't 'enough' and formula is needed gets out there.

Babies come in all shapes and sizes. My two are obviously meant to be big and bonny but some are long, short, lean etc.

Also being at the bottom of the chart isn't a bad thing. It's not a competition or a league table.

If your daughter isn't gaining weight any more there may be milk transfer issues such as tongue tie. That's why you'd benefit from contacting Cuidiu or la Leche.

If there are no milk transfer issues or underlying health problems and she's generally content with good nappy output then she's the weight she's supposed to be. That's the pure beauty of breastfeeding. You can't over feed and thr baby can't be overweight.

missis aggie · 25-09-2013 9:06am

I understand your worries ladies. I have two daughters and both are long and lean. They were only weight 4 times. After birth, to check if they regain birth weight, before 1st vaccine and on 6 month check up. Always on top of the chart for height and bottom for weight. My gp and phn ( supportive with breastfeeding) never had any issues as girls are hitting the " milestones" on " schedule" or early. Loads of wet nappies, alert and active. I learned to trust my instinct ( very hard

so I'm not worried about weight.
I heard there is some kind of obsession about babies weight and I'm suprised that other elements are not taken to account when assessing child's health.
Maybe you should ask about opinion of person who is supportive of breastfeeding ?

wolfpawnat · 25-09-2013 10:57am

I emailed Dr. Newman last night, giving all my details and the like, he got back to me already. Saying what I myself felt, if she is latching well and feeding well, then shoving more milk down her throat cannot possibly do her any good. He thinks perhaps it is best to wake her after a few hours IF I am concerned about her intake during the day. As she does not always sleep 6-9 hours straight means that she wakes when hungry so to go with her on it.

I told the OH and he was less than pleased. He started studying medicine and then decided to go into veterinary, but in both he noticed the same things. Both get weekend seminars in lovely fancy hotels with meals and golfing, etc paid for by large companies. He has no doubt the same is happening with the three formula providers, and the fact she mentioned a particular brand meant he truly feels she got a nice spa weekend with a seminar or two from SMA.

The chart she used was the one in the folder kept by the hospital. Is anyone able to tell me whether or not they have one for bf babies and one for ff ones, or it is just one basic chart?

My little lady is tiny in all accounts, less than 50cm long, she was in for a check up yesterday because her head circumference is in the 5% or less percentile. She is just coming out of her "up to 1 month" clothes. When she was born, newborn was too big for her. Her 0-3 month stuff is swimming on her. She is in the 25 percentile or less for everything. She is just a dainty baby!

Sweet_pea · 25-09-2013 11:11am

Sorry if this is OT.

If you're happy with your baby's weight gain even if it is under the percentile, is there anything they can do to force you to feed more. Is it that they will just keep mentioning it at appts.

I'm hoping to breastfeed and if it all goes well, I don't want to have to face an argument from a PHN who is against it.

icescreamqueen · 25-09-2013 11:14am

Like your little one Wolfpawnat, my LO has plenty of wet nappies, has a dirty nappy every 2 days and is very alert. She is still in newborn clothes at 7 weeks. She is long and lean. She has grown 5cms since birth but only gained 1 pound 4ozs in weight.

I'm feeling the same about my little one as regards weight gain. She hasn't put on much weight in the last two-three weeks, although her reflux definitely has an influence on that but when I think about it, around 3 weeks ago she started to become more alert during the day. As in she doesn't sleep as all during the day. She is much more active, moving her feet and hands more and looking around her. I suppose what I'm thinking is that she must be using up more energy compared to when she was born, which could be affecting her weight gain.

wolfpawnat · 25-09-2013 11:26am

Sweet_pea wrote: »

Sorry if this is OT.

If you're happy with your baby's weight gain even if it is under the percentile, is there anything they can do to force you to feed more. Is it that they will just keep mentioning it at appts.

I'm hoping to breastfeed and if it all goes well, I don't want to have to face an argument from a PHN who is against it.

Sweet_Pea, my phn is good about the breast feeding, it is a paediatrician I am having issues with, with that, it has to be noted they are not trained in breastfeeding and associated things, that would be extra training.

For a hospital that supposedly prides itself on it's pro breastfeeding policy, it really has been very difficult for me there. All my support has been from my PHN and the GP nurse.

icescreamqueen wrote: »

Like your little one Wolfpawnat, my LO has plenty of wet nappies, has a dirty nappy every 2 days and is very alert. She is still in newborn clothes at 7 weeks. She is long and lean. She has grown 5cms since birth but only gained 1 pound 4ozs in weight.

I'm feeling the same about my little one as regards weight gain. She hasn't put on much weight in the last two-three weeks, although her reflux definitely has an influence on that but when I think about it, around 3 weeks ago she started to become more alert during the day. As in she doesn't sleep as all during the day. She is much more active, moving her feet and hands more and looking around her. I suppose what I'm thinking is that she must be using up more energy compared to when she was born, which could be affecting her weight gain.

S is mad for spending time moving around, gurgling and making noise and looking about the place. Plenty of smiles and mad to be in arms walking around. She is not sick or malnourished, she couldn't do that if she was. I know in my heart she is okay. I feel her drinking, yeah she coughs up a bit, but nothing compared to what she coughed up last night when I tried to get her to drink more. She has fed 3 times since 5:30 this morning, I would have thought that normal.

aknitter · 25-09-2013 12:18pm

Wolfpawnet, my heart goes out to you. Its so tough with the older child and the baby to worry about. Firstly go with your gut, if you are happy she's ok then don't be bullied into using formula, some children are small - my neighbours daughter was always small and now at 12 you'd easily put her at 10. Are you and your OH dainty?

But I wouldn't ignore their concerns either. As was suggested in the email, to wake her and give her some expressed, would it be an idea to give her as much of the fatty part of the milk as you can at this time? leave the milk in the fridge to separate, pour away as much of the lighter part and give the remainder. Its the fatty part that has most of the nutrients and it will build her up more, while it'll be filling it won't over fill her to the point blah! A fast flow teat on a bottle should be ok and you can always use a sterile needle to poke more holes in it if you need to.

Good luck with your older boy, my fella kicked off when the baby was that age too. I think he realised the changes were for good and was not happy, baby is 14 weeks now and he's in a bit better form - trying to settle him at creche for the first time and it'll be a long process. Patience is the key I think.

wolfpawnat · 25-09-2013 12:30pm

aknitter wrote: »

Wolfpawnet, my heart goes out to you. Its so tough with the older child and the baby to worry about. Firstly go with your gut, if you are happy she's ok then don't be bullied into using formula, some children are small - my neighbours daughter was always small and now at 12 you'd easily put her at 10. Are you and your OH dainty?

But I wouldn't ignore their concerns either. As was suggested in the email, to wake her and give her some expressed, would it be an idea to give her as much of the fatty part of the milk as you can at this time? leave the milk in the fridge to separate, pour away as much of the lighter part and give the remainder. Its the fatty part that has most of the nutrients and it will build her up more, while it'll be filling it won't over fill her to the point blah! A fast flow teat on a bottle should be ok and you can always use a sterile needle to poke more holes in it if you need to.

Good luck with your older boy, my fella kicked off when the baby was that age too. I think he realised the changes were for good and was not happy, baby is 14 weeks now and he's in a bit better form - trying to settle him at creche for the first time and it'll be a long process. Patience is the key I think.

Hey aknitter, yeah we are small enough. I am barely scraping 5'4 and my partner is 5'8. His mother,sister and nan (RIP) are tiny women too. She is just small. She eats as much as she wants then shuts the mouth, I am about to feed her her 4th meal since 5:30 this morning. She eats a lot, she just is small.

Yeah, the big bro is having a hard time settling in school, then a baby annoying him during Spiderman is not his favourite way to spend his afternoon either.

Wooha · 25-09-2013 2:05pm

wolfpawnat wrote: »

The chart she used was the one in the folder kept by the hospital. Is anyone able to tell me whether or not they have one for bf babies and one for ff ones, or it is just one basic chart?

At the breastfeeding class in CUMH a couple of weeks ago, the midwife said that the chart is based on formula fed babies, so doesnt really apply to breast fed babies.
So she told us not to worry if we went with breast feeding and our babies were in the lower percentile for weight.

wolfpawnat · 25-09-2013 3:36pm

Wooha wrote: »

At the breastfeeding class in CUMH a couple of weeks ago, the midwife said that the chart is based on formula fed babies, so doesnt really apply to breast fed babies.
So she told us not to worry if we went with breast feeding and our babies were in the lower percentile for weight.

I think the Rotunda is the same, I think I will just take it all with a pinch of salt.

clare82 · 25-09-2013 5:20pm

ladies,
im due my first baba today and am hoping to bf. however i have inverted nipples and so for the past week ive been using breast shells to gently pull out the nipple. it seems to be working well but the part that makes contact with my skin really tends to stick to my skin....now its not agony but seems like unnecessary discomfort when removing them. does anyone have any advice on what to do? was thinking baby powder on the skin or could that cause infection? or mulitmam balm all over boobs? cold water on the boob when removing?

any help appreciated :pac:

holding · 25-09-2013 5:36pm

Wolfpawnpat, just a few months ago when my guy was born, I had a paediatrician come to me in the postnatal ward and tell me that if my baby didn't have a wet nappy in the next couple of hours, that she would give him formula. The baby was only a few hours old at this stage. Luckily for me, I had read the chapter on breastfeeding, and told her that he had had colostrum, that my milk hadn't come in, and that I was confident that he would have a wet nappy once my milk came in and he drank something. That is what ended up happening, and he had a wet nappy soon afterwards. But I am still shocked in retrospect that a paediatrician in the Rotunda almost had him on formula. I mean, it's no big deal in the long run, I'm sure he would have been fine and all, and we would have had our breastfeeding relationship, but I don't believe she had any training in breastfeeding at all, which is shocking for her job. Anyway, just to let you know what happened with our paediatrician in the Rotunda.

How Strange · 25-09-2013 6:42pm

These are the new growth charts which all hse staff should be using since January.

http://www.hse.ie/eng/health/child/growthmonitoring/

How Strange · 25-09-2013 6:43pm

holding would you send a complaint to the hse your service/your say and email Siobhsn Hourigan at the same time? If we don't complain about the appalling lack of support and knowledge then nothing will change.

The Breast Feeding Support Thread

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