Kildare GAA General Discussion Thread

klairondavis · 01-07-2013 3:41pm

I don't think you understand, as a supporter I was pleased with the effort our players put in during the first half. Individual players did put in a big effort and still found that their best was no match for the Dubs going in 5 points down. Very disheartening and probably a contributory factor in the poor second half effort.

Dubliner28 · 01-07-2013 5:02pm

Kildare v Louth, Newbridge, 7pm Sat 13 July lads

klairondavis · 01-07-2013 5:12pm

Dubliner28 wrote: »

Kildare v Louth, Newbridge, 7pm Sat 13 July lads

Louth have traditionally been Kildare's bogey team down the years. 1991 still is the most sickening Kildare defeat I have ever witnessed and I include the Donegal match a few years ago in that.

TheGoldenAges · 01-07-2013 5:45pm

klairondavis wrote: »

Louth have traditionally been Kildare's bogey team down the years. 1991 still is the most sickening Kildare defeat I have ever witnessed and I include the Donegal match a few years ago in that.

Presume you mean Down?

Neeson · 01-07-2013 5:48pm

TheGoldenAges wrote: »

Presume you mean Down?

I think he means the all Ireland quarter final 2011.

klairondavis · 01-07-2013 5:54pm

TheGoldenAges wrote: »

Presume you mean Down?

No Down were the better team that day. We never did enough to win that game.

TheGoldenAges · 01-07-2013 5:58pm

My bad, completely forgot about that game

blackbelt · 01-07-2013 6:04pm

Back to the drawing board for Kildare and I would have to agree McGeeney has done all he can. As evidenced after the league meeting with Dublin and yesterday, Kildare are way off the pace.Don't think it was a mental block because they could not have asked for a better start but it seems Kildare are having issues rising the bar for championship after a decent league.

Louth will be a hard nut to crack based on how Kildare have performed in last two games.

24yearslater · 01-07-2013 6:39pm

Anyone mind if I give my tuppence worth here? As a Galwayman exiled in the short grass county, I have taken more than a passing interest in the footballing fortunes of the Lillies over the past few years. Whilst there is no doubt there is a great passion for the game within the county, there is, in my opinion, a great deal of over expectation of what is an extremely ordinary bunch of footballers, who in fairness to them possibly overachieved during 2010-2011 (probably due to sheer bloody mindedness & strength of character). I have great time for a number of their players, especially Johnny Doyle who I reckon has been one of the finest footballers to play IC over the past 13-14 years. However, there are a number of players on the panel who are simply ordinary, and thier inability to kick a ball accurately over a distance of 10 metres is astonishing. I spent the first couple of months of this year listening to people telling me about the great U21 side ye had this year (indeed Martin Carney made reference to it during commentary yesterday - what was that all about), yet the difference in footballing ability between Galway & them in the AI semi final in Tullamore last April was mind boggling. When the 2 teams trotted out I genuinely feared for the safety of the Galway players, such was the difference in physique between the 2 sides. Yet once the ball was thrown in it was clear that one side had been coached in basic footballing skils, whilst the other seemed to spend their youth in the gym. It was like looking at a rugby league team v an underage soccer or Gah side.
I'm fully aware of the shortcomings of Galway football, and God knows thay were all too clear to see in Pearse Stadium on both Saturday last, & against Mayo in May. Yet nobody in Galway seriously considers we are even in the top 20 teams at the moment. But at least we seem to be doing something right at underage, even if we are struggling to convert that to senior. The issue with Kildare seems to be an obsession with acheiving a level of fitness that willl allow them to compete physically with the Dublins/Corks/Donegals/etc, yet this seems to be to the detriment of coaching football. Even go back all the way to Mickos time - he focused on achieving a huge level of fitness within the panel, yet footballing ability was the achillies heel that ultimately saw them fall short. If the Kildare Co board continues to pursue this policy then the heartbreak of Kildare will continue. I hope I'm wrong, because I genuinely hold people involved in Kildare football in the highest regard.

Lemlin · 01-07-2013 6:56pm

klairondavis wrote: »

I don't think you understand, as a supporter I was pleased with the effort our players put in during the first half. Individual players did put in a big effort and still found that their best was no match for the Dubs going in 5 points down. Very disheartening and probably a contributory factor in the poor second half effort.

If that's the point you were making then I did misunderstand it.

klairondavis · 01-07-2013 6:57pm

There is plenty of truth in the overemphasis on fitness argument but I do think it is overplayed sometimes. Kildare have produced many fine skillful footballers down the years - Larry Tompkins, Johnny Doyle, Pat Mangan, Niall Buckley, Martin Lynch, Paul McLoughlin, Johnny McDonald etc.

Niall Kelly might have had a poor game yesterday but he has the talent to develop into a fine player given the right guidance. Paddy Brophy showed enough yesterday to suggest he can do likewise. The main root of the current team's problems (of which there are many) is the lack of a real centre back in the Glenn Ryan mould. We lack pace in the half back line and McGeeney has failed to stick to a consistent midfield pairing since Earley got injured.

There has always been a mental fragility about Kildare teams and I think that's a legacy of our history. I remember going to games in the 80s and watching Kildare teams wilt when faced with the slightest bit of resistance. It wasn't for lack of good footballers either. The only way you can change that is to try and be successful at underage level so the players coming through have that sense of entitlement and self confidence that Dublin and Meath do.

Nobody in the county is naive enough to expect All Ireland titles but they do expect the team to be competitive. We have been competitive under McGeeney but I am not certain that we can retain that competitiveness for the future under the current management.

Frankie Lee · 01-07-2013 7:00pm

If we were to replace him with Glenn Ryan it would be a terrible mistake and there doesn't seem to be too many other candidates at the moment.

For the Louth game I wouldn't mind the team set up something like this:

Connolly
McGrillen--- Foley-- - Kelly

Callaghan--Cribben
E.Doyle---Dan Flynn--- E.Bolton

Hurley- Dar. Flynn
---N.Kelly---- E.O'Flaherty

Brophy--J.Doyle

Shoring up the middle has to be a priority at this stage as Cork last year and what happened yesterday showed.
Callaghan playing as a defensive sweeper with Cribben covering every blade of grass on the pitch. Daniel Flynn could be the answer at centre back. Hurley needs more experience at midfield.
They should go back to the more fluent 4 man forward line up that was implemented in 09 and abandon the target man full forward which has not worked against good teams.
Niall Kelly was hit hard and often yesterday and got no protection from McQuillen but he will improve from that and hopefully come good.
The day will have to come soon when Johnny Doyle is dropped but in the absence of James Kavanagh he is still our most accurate forward.

klairondavis · 01-07-2013 8:05pm

Frankie Lee wrote: »

If we were to replace him with Glenn Ryan it would be a terrible mistake and there doesn't seem to be too many other candidates at the moment.

For the Louth game I wouldn't mind the team set up something like this:

Connolly
McGrillen--- Foley-- - Kelly

Callaghan--Cribben
E.Doyle---Dan Flynn--- E.Bolton

Hurley- Dar. Flynn
---N.Kelly---- E.O'Flaherty

Brophy--J.Doyle

Shoring up the middle has to be a priority at this stage as Cork last year and what happened yesterday showed.
Callaghan playing as a defensive sweeper with Cribben covering every blade of grass on the pitch. Daniel Flynn could be the answer at centre back. Hurley needs more experience at midfield.
They should go back to the more fluent 4 man forward line up that was implemented in 09 and abandon the target man full forward which has not worked against good teams.
Niall Kelly was hit hard and often yesterday and got no protection from McQuillen but he will improve from that and hopefully come good.
The day will have to come soon when Johnny Doyle is dropped but in the absence of James Kavanagh he is still our most accurate forward.

It's a debate for the Autumn but I think Brian Murphy could possibly be a suitable replacement especially if the minors do well this summer. He knows all the young players from underage football. There are plenty of well qualified Kildare natives working with other counties. Cian O'Neill with Kerry and Dave Matthews with the Cork hurlers would be the two obvious ones. I would like to see people like this involved in the next Kildare set up.

I don't think Emmet Bolton is playing well enough at the moment to be included. If Eoin Doyle and Ollie Lyons are back for the next day I would expect both to start.

Frankie Lee · 01-07-2013 8:15pm

A good article
http://experiencemore.ie/experience-speaks/2013/07/01/man-and-ball-lilies-have-short-memories

Frankie Lee · 01-07-2013 8:23pm

klairondavis wrote: »

It's a debate for the Autumn but I think Brian Murphy could possibly be a suitable replacement especially if the minors do well this summer. He knows all the young players from underage football. There are plenty of well qualified Kildare natives working with other counties. Cian O'Neill with Kerry and Dave Matthews with the Cork hurlers would be the two obvious ones. I would like to see people like this involved in the next Kildare set up.

I don't think Emmet Bolton is playing well enough at the moment to be included. If Eoin Doyle and Ollie Lyons are back for the next day I would expect both to start.

I agree about Bolton, he is a shadow of the player he was 2 or 3 years ago but I think Lyons will still be out injured. Options are limited unless even more under 21 players are to start.

Brian Murphy is a decent shout alright. Agreed about O'Neill and Matthews too but Kildare would not have the finances to compete with Cork and Kerry for top strength and conditioning coaches.

klairondavis · 01-07-2013 8:31pm

Frankie Lee wrote: »

I agree about Bolton, he is a shadow of the player he was 2 or 3 years ago but I think Lyons will still be out injured. Options are limited unless even more under 21 players are to start.

Brian Murphy is a decent shout alright. Agreed about O'Neill and Matthews too but Kildare would not have the finances to compete with Cork and Kerry for top strength and conditioning coaches.

Julie Davis isn't coming cheap either. Cian O'Neill is heavily involved in the coaching side of things rather than just being purely strength and conditioning and to me he seems like a guy that fancies having a go at management some day. Having worked with Brian Murphy before with the minor team, they could be a duo that might be able to bring the next generation of Kildare footballers through.

It's a pity of Ollie is out. We missed him yesterday although I thought his clubmate was the best of our defenders.

ledgebag1 · 01-07-2013 8:36pm

I am a kildare supporter and have been for a very long time. I think McGeeney should move on now. I believe one important point and this has a direct effect on the players is McGeeneys relationship with the players. From the outside he seems to confuse players bringing them in dropping them, discipline issues. His relationship with Hurley for example, tommy moolick etc. in fact moolick has gone to the states now.
Just my two sense, I personally would like to see Jason Ryan or Glenn Ryan getting an opportunity now

klairondavis · 01-07-2013 8:40pm

Ewan raises some good points in his article but again I think this thing of Kildare supporters having short memories is a bit overplayed. Kildare supporters for the most part are quite realistic even if we're often portrayed as completely the opposite. I think most people are well aware of how bad things were for most of the last decade once O'Dwyer left. There's no doubt McGeeney has done very good work and the overall picture of Kildare football is far healthier now than it is when he took over even after yesterday's defeat. However we need to ask ourselves now whether he's best placed to take Kildare forward into the future. I have severe doubts since last year and I think he might have run his course.

I'm not sure if McGeeney actually realises how good he has it in Kildare. He has gotten a fairly easy ride from the support compared to managers in some other counties. You only need to go back a few weeks to recall the abuse Paul Grimley was on the receiving end of from the supporters of McGeeney's native county. The Kildare support tend to be very loyal and I don't think McGeeney would have lasted this long without their support. There was an interview with Brian Lacey in one of the papers at the weekend and he said that the Kildare supporters are far too easy on their team and he is probably right in that.

Frankie Lee · 01-07-2013 8:41pm

McGrillen had a great game on Paddy Andrews but it was clear he wasn't able to cope with O'Gara and should have been switched with Foley.

Brian Murphy should have been given the under 21 job ahead of Alan Barry a few years ago too.

To Alcohol · 01-07-2013 8:53pm

24yearslater wrote: »

Anyone mind if I give my tuppence worth here? As a Galwayman exiled in the short grass county, I have taken more than a passing interest in the footballing fortunes of the Lillies over the past few years. Whilst there is no doubt there is a great passion for the game within the county, there is, in my opinion, a great deal of over expectation of what is an extremely ordinary bunch of footballers, who in fairness to them possibly overachieved during 2010-2011 (probably due to sheer bloody mindedness & strength of character). I have great time for a number of their players, especially Johnny Doyle who I reckon has been one of the finest footballers to play IC over the past 13-14 years. However, there are a number of players on the panel who are simply ordinary, and thier inability to kick a ball accurately over a distance of 10 metres is astonishing. I spent the first couple of months of this year listening to people telling me about the great U21 side ye had this year (indeed Martin Carney made reference to it during commentary yesterday - what was that all about), yet the difference in footballing ability between Galway & them in the AI semi final in Tullamore last April was mind boggling. When the 2 teams trotted out I genuinely feared for the safety of the Galway players, such was the difference in physique between the 2 sides. Yet once the ball was thrown in it was clear that one side had been coached in basic footballing skils, whilst the other seemed to spend their youth in the gym. It was like looking at a rugby league team v an underage soccer or Gah side.
I'm fully aware of the shortcomings of Galway football, and God knows thay were all too clear to see in Pearse Stadium on both Saturday last, & against Mayo in May. Yet nobody in Galway seriously considers we are even in the top 20 teams at the moment. But at least we seem to be doing something right at underage, even if we are struggling to convert that to senior. The issue with Kildare seems to be an obsession with acheiving a level of fitness that willl allow them to compete physically with the Dublins/Corks/Donegals/etc, yet this seems to be to the detriment of coaching football. Even go back all the way to Mickos time - he focused on achieving a huge level of fitness within the panel, yet footballing ability was the achillies heel that ultimately saw them fall short. If the Kildare Co board continues to pursue this policy then the heartbreak of Kildare will continue. I hope I'm wrong, because I genuinely hold people involved in Kildare football in the highest regard.

Best piece I've seen written here in a very long time. Absolutely spot on. I've seen young lads over the last few years join Kildare squads at all age levels and every last one of them comes back to the club a lesser footballer after having any football in them trained out of them.

Tom Joad · 01-07-2013 9:56pm

klairondavis wrote: »

Ewan raises some good points in his article but again I think this thing of Kildare supporters having short memories is a bit overplayed. Kildare supporters for the most part are quite realistic even if we're often portrayed as completely the opposite. I think most people are well aware of how bad things were for most of the last decade once O'Dwyer left. There's no doubt McGeeney has done very good work and the overall picture of Kildare football is far healthier now than it is when he took over even after yesterday's defeat. However we need to ask ourselves now whether he's best placed to take Kildare forward into the future. I have severe doubts since last year and I think he might have run his course.

I'm not sure if McGeeney actually realises how good he has it in Kildare. He has gotten a fairly easy ride from the support compared to managers in some other counties. You only need to go back a few weeks to recall the abuse Paul Grimley was on the receiving end of from the supporters of McGeeney's native county. The Kildare support tend to be very loyal and I don't think McGeeney would have lasted this long without their support. There was an interview with Brian Lacey in one of the papers at the weekend and he said that the Kildare supporters are far too easy on their team and he is probably right in that.

I think this is spot on - McGeeney undoubtably has done good things for Kildare but he has gone on at least 1-2 years too long. I was convinced that his way of thinking suited Kildare or indeed any non-Ulster team. I'm sure he will do well in the future (maybe with Armagh) but there are plenty of good Kildare football people who should be given a crack of it. The Dublin model could work well with managers having a succession through the underage ranks (would also save a considerable amount of money as would ditching some of the physical conditioning stuff). There are plenty of good footballers coming through and Brophy looks to be the real deal. A new man that has inside knowledge could give the likes of Bolton a new lease of life (alá Terry Hyland and Cian Mackey).

Kieran81 · 02-07-2013 12:03am

the actual footballing skill level is dreadful in kildare and has been for a long time . i think the recent success at minor and u21 level has hidden these deficiencies . they've been winning on the back of being vastly physically superior as opposed to winning with better quality football skills. the biggest failing has been there kicking , if you compare say an aussie rules footballers ability to kick consistantly accurately over 40meters to kildare footballers , its clear that they put much more of an emphasis when developing young footballers (15-21 not talking pro level) on kicking and other core techniques which bares fruit at senior level and still have the balance physically .

Lemlin · 03-07-2013 10:15am

In fairness, I do think a few are going over the top with the criticism. Kildare were poor but it was only last night when I watched the game again on Sky Plus that I realised they had six under 21s on the pitch. You only have to look at Cavan last year against Kildare when we fielded an inexperienced team to see what can happen. But then the bright side of it is a year later, with a year of training and a league campaign behind them, those lads will be ready to move forward.

McGeeney has very obviously decided that the time is right for change and, to be honest, I think he's right. The Kildare team of the past few years have been over rated. The warning signs were there last year with the loss to Meath, the poor performance against Limerick (where Kildare really should have lost) and the second game against Meath where it was very tight. The eventual drubbing to Cork, who in turn were hammered by Donegal, further showed the inadequacies. I think the good league campaign papered over the cracks but then, league is league and championship is championship.

I think the time is right now for McGeeney to move on. The Armagh job should be available if not this year, then next, and someone new should come into the Kildare hotseat for a fresh approach.

I'm amazed Dermot Earley hasn't been approached in some capacity, even just to snap him up to coach the U21s next year with a view to taking over the senior team.

Felexicon · 03-07-2013 10:55am

Lemlin wrote: »

In fairness, I do think a few are going over the top with the criticism. Kildare were poor but it was only last night when I watched the game again on Sky Plus that I realised they had six under 21s on the pitch. You only have to look at Cavan last year against Kildare when we fielded an inexperienced team to see what can happen. But then the bright side of it is a year later, with a year of training and a league campaign behind them, those lads will be ready to move forward.

McGeeney has very obviously decided that the time is right for change and, to be honest, I think he's right. The Kildare team of the past few years have been over rated. The warning signs were there last year with the loss to Meath, the poor performance against Limerick (where Kildare really should have lost) and the second game against Meath where it was very tight. The eventual drubbing to Cork, who in turn were hammered by Donegal, further showed the inadequacies. I think the good league campaign papered over the cracks but then, league is league and championship is championship.

I think the time is right now for McGeeney to move on. The Armagh job should be available if not this year, then next, and someone new should come into the Kildare hotseat for a fresh approach.

I'm amazed Dermot Earley hasn't been approached in some capacity, even just to snap him up to coach the U21s next year with a view to taking over the senior team.

Only played each other once in championship last year. Not sure what game you're talking about. After we beat them Kildare, scraped by Limerick and made a show of Sligo before Cork showed how the big boys do it.

AGC · 03-07-2013 11:20am

Frankie Lee wrote: »

McGrillen had a great game on Paddy Andrews but it was clear he wasn't able to cope with O'Gara and should have been switched with Foley.

Brian Murphy should have been given the under 21 job ahead of Alan Barry a few years ago too.

Andrews had only trained a couple of times in between Westmeath and Kildare game and was struggling with a groin injury

klairondavis · 03-07-2013 11:31am

An on form Kildare team will probably still deal with most of the mid ranking teams that are in the qualifiers. Getting over Louth will be the biggest hurdle because of the mental state of the team after such a heavy defeat and the fact that Louth have been something of a bogey team for Kildare down the years. If Kildare got over Louth and avoided Tyrone in R3, I think they would get back to the 1/4 Finals against the big boys provided they avoided the Munster losers in R4. You would hope if we got there that we could give an improved performance but it would most likely be another heavy defeat to Dublin, Mayo, Donegal or Kerry/Cork. Would getting back to August give McGeeney a stay of execution? Probably. Should it? I'm not so sure.

Lets see how the minors get on against Dublin on Saturday first. Hopefully they can put some pride back in the jersey.

Lemlin · 03-07-2013 12:14pm

Felexicon wrote: »

Only played each other once in championship last year. Not sure what game you're talking about. After we beat them Kildare, scraped by Limerick and made a show of Sligo before Cork showed how the big boys do it.

Getting my years mixed up. I'm thinking of the 2011 game in Navan where Tommy O'Connor got the early goal. Meath looked like they might win but then Seamus Kenny I thinj it was had to go off and Emmet Bolton got a goal and point or two once Kenny was gone off.

Lemlin · 03-07-2013 12:17pm

klairondavis wrote: »

An on form Kildare team will probably still deal with most of the mid ranking teams that are in the qualifiers. Getting over Louth will be the biggest hurdle because of the mental state of the team after such a heavy defeat and the fact that Louth have been something of a bogey team for Kildare down the years. If Kildare got over Louth and avoided Tyrone in R3, I think they would get back to the 1/4 Finals against the big boys provided they avoided the Munster losers in R4. You would hope if we got there that we could give an improved performance but it would most likely be another heavy defeat to Dublin, Mayo, Donegal or Kerry/Cork. Would getting back to August give McGeeney a stay of execution? Probably. Should it? I'm not so sure.

Lets see how the minors get on against Dublin on Saturday first. Hopefully they can put some pride back in the jersey.

Is that good enough for the expenditure and effort that has gone into the team though? Not to mention how the manager has alienated certain parts of the media and, in my opinion, neutral supporters. I was amazed by how many Meath supporters were shouting for their once arch enemies Dublin over Kildare in the second match.

klairondavis · 03-07-2013 12:22pm

Lemlin wrote: »

Is that good enough for the expenditure and effort that has gone into the team though? Not to mention how the manager has alienated certain parts of the media and, in my opinion, neutral supporters. I was amazed by how many Meath supporters were shouting for their once arch enemies Dublin over Kildare in the second match.

Read the last line of that paragraph Lemlin.

I would take issue with the expenditure argument. It's a red herring. Kildare spend less than the county average on team preparation. I posted the figures up on this thread at some stage in the past year but I can't be bothered looking for them again now.

I would agree that it is probably the end of the road for the man but expenditure is not the issue that the Indo make it out to be.

Lemlin · 03-07-2013 1:32pm

klairondavis wrote: »

Read the last line of that paragraph Lemlin.

I would take issue with the expenditure argument. It's a red herring. Kildare spend less than the county average on team preparation. I posted the figures up on this thread at some stage in the past year but I can't be bothered looking for them again now.

I would agree that it is probably the end of the road for the man but expenditure is not the issue that the Indo make it out to be.

Taking the expenditure argument out of it, I still don't believe his training methods, if they're as strict and hardcore as is described by the media, are garnering results.

The way he acts with the media also comes across very poorly. Watching the coverage last night, you have Jim Gavin running around with a smile on his face and then McGeeney standing scowling. I realise Mcgeeney is hardly going to stand smiling while his team is obliterated but he could crack the odd wry smile now and again!

I think McGeeney has certainly improved Kildare but he's brought them as far as he can. I'd be interested in seeing how he'd get on in Armagh. I realise they're struggling this year but they still have the Crossmaglen lads and are a talented bunch.

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