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Average Welfare Payments for Religious Ceremonies Halved 2012

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  • 07-03-2013 1:40pm
    #1
    DesperateDan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭


    As an atheist [Edit: AND A TAX PAYER :)], I find it pretty depressing that the government hands out even half the amount (totalling €1.5 million in 2012, €120 each) to people to buy dresses for their communion. So was wondering if there was enough people behind it, if it's at all possible to make this payment go away entirely? What do people think?

    Edit: Linky

    Do you agree with the welfare payment for communions etc. 289 votes

    Yes it's fine, people need that money for dresses
    0% 0 votes
    No it's ridiculous, there are better things to spend it on!
    9% 27 votes
    Don't care at all :)
    90% 262 votes


«1345

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    #2
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    This pops up far too often, seriously overdone!

    My opinion, I do not begrudge Catholics the right to have their religious ceremonies, the same way I would not begrudge Islamic, Jewish, Hindi, etc. Some families are VERY religious and though I do not believe the dresses should cost that much as they seem to be on sale in places for less than 100e, they cannot afford it, and yes, it is annoying for hard working tax payers to fork out for these things, but your religious view should not mean that others have not the right to express theirs.


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    #3
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    The thing is though that the grant is not specifically for religious ...'stuff'. It is for extenuating circumstances. Yes i think its bizzarre that cash strapped families spent lots of dosh on the talking snake/walking dead jew cult but whadda ya do!!!


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    #4
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    I'm an atheist and I don't care. Why do atheists insist on poking their nose into everything that isn't totally logical? Born again atheists are much more annoying than religious people.


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    #5
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Also, €1.5million, I know the country is not in great shape, but I doubt that €1.5 is what will make or break us. We waste larger sums of money on far more ridiculous things that that.


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    #6
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    This pops up far too often, seriously overdone!

    My opinion, I do not begrudge Catholics the right to have their religious ceremonies, the same way I would not begrudge Islamic, Jewish, Hindi, etc. Some families are VERY religious and though I do not believe the dresses should cost that much as they seem to be on sale in places for less than 100e, they cannot afford it, and yes, it is annoying for hard working tax payers to fork out for these things, but your religious view should not mean that others have not the right to express theirs.
    The right to express your religion is not being denied/ It just shouldnt need tax payers money to be expressed.


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    #7
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,975 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    DesperateDan wrote: »
    As an atheist, I find it pretty depressing that the government hands out even half the amount (totalling €1.5 million in 2012, €120 each) to people to buy dresses for their communion. So was wondering if there was enough people behind it, if it's at all possible to make this payment go away entirely? What do people think?

    Edit: Linky

    I don't think atheists have the monopoly on being depressed with the whole feckin set up.


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    #8
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Ghost Buster wrote: »
    The right to express your religion is not being denied/ It just shouldnt need tax payers money to be expressed.

    But he is not saying it as a tax payer, he says it as an atheist. Why else would he start he post with the statement of his religious beliefs or lack there of?


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    #9
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    People are free to spend their money on whatever they deem necessary/valuable to them and theirs. However, people should not be getting extra social welfare money to spend on holy communion dresses etc., that's just ridiculous.


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    #10
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Ghost Buster wrote: »
    The right to express your religion is not being denied/ It just shouldnt need tax payers money to be expressed.

    The problem is the religious ethos of the schools and the sacraments being conducted in the schools.


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    #11
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    DesperateDan wrote: »
    As an atheist, I find it pretty depressing that the government hands out even half the amount (totalling €1.5 million in 2012, €120 each) to people to buy dresses for their communion. So was wondering if there was enough people behind it, if it's at all possible to make this payment go away entirely? What do people think?

    Edit: Linky

    As a man, I find it pretty depressing that the government hand out money to women on maternity benefit :rolleyes:


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    #12
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    The problem is the religious ethos of the schools and the sacraments being conducted in the schools.

    Agreed. If it is part of the second class curriculum and again for the confirmation in sixth class, how can we blame families for asking for financial aid when it is expected of them to do it.


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    #13
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,975 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    The problem is the religious ethos of the schools and the sacraments being conducted in the schools.


    I note that that was your 666th post.


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    #14
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,024 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    The money goes back into the economy with the monster p1ss ups they have after it


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    #15
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Valetta wrote: »
    As a man, I find it pretty depressing that the government hand out money to women on maternity benefit :rolleyes:

    It must kill you all together we get basic maternity care for free so. ;)


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    #16
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    Agreed. If it is part of the second class curriculum and again for the confirmation in sixth class, how can we blame families for asking for financial aid when it is expected of them to do it.

    Right. If they really wanted to cut back they should insist it's done in their uniforms, which I don't think is a bad idea.

    OR...have religious instruction done outside of school.


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    #17
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,975 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    The money goes back into the economy with the monster p1ss ups they have after it

    .. and the local kiddie clothes shop owners also have a piss up after they've counted the takings.


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    #18
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,975 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    Right. If they really wanted to cut back they should insist it's done in their uniforms, which I don't think is a bad idea.

    OR...have religious instruction done outside of school.

    I'm sure that when the majority of kids are atheists, your wishes will be complied with.


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    #19
    admiralofthefleet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭admiralofthefleet


    the catholic cult is worth billions, let them pay for ceremonies they force people to attend


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    #20
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    But he is not saying it as a tax payer, he says it as an atheist. Why else would he start he post with the statement of his religious beliefs or lack there of?
    I was replying to your post not the OP. Being annoyed (as an atheist or other wise!) that families feel it neccessesary to spent grant money from taxes on a religious ceremony is not denying them their religious freedom.


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    #21
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    Right. If they really wanted to cut back they should insist it's done in their uniforms, which I don't think is a bad idea.

    OR...have religious instruction done outside of school.

    but...but...but...but...but...but...but...then the priest would not be as needed on the school board and we may actually have schools free of religious dictatorship. Perish the thought. We may then become free thinking and may even believe in evolution!!!

    Enter Ted and Dougal with the "Down with this sort of thing" and "Careful now" posters as required!!!

    No, it should be an outside of school thing and dress as they do in the "My Big Fat Gyspy Wedding" programme if it is your sort of thing, but at the very least, make it uniforms. Some families are struggling terribly at this time and something like a fancy dress or suit for the youngster for a day is wrong. IMO anyway.


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    #22
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    I'm sure that when the majority of kids are atheists, your wishes will be complied with.

    I would say the majority of kids doing first holy communion have no idea what their brainwashing means.


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    #23
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Valetta wrote: »
    As a man, I find it pretty depressing that the government hand out money to women on maternity benefit :rolleyes:
    Babies exist without question!!!:D


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    #24
    Truncheon Rouge
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 388 ✭✭Truncheon Rouge


    Remove every trace of religious debate from this and you're left with something like this:
    Theres an almost all pervading cultural ceremony in all parts of the country for young girls, which is attended by probably 90% of a young girls peers from her schoolroom to the kids on her street.
    Its pretty much a given part of life for a girl. Not being able to afford a dress like 9/10 of her class will likely do great damage to her self esteem and isolate her from her peers.
    I'd guess this will have a ripple effect over the persons lifetime, leaving her with the proverbial chip* on the shoulder, so in terms of how she turns out, and how productive she is over her lifetime it may be well worth the 120.

    Basically do you want her to have the opinion of herself that she's an outsider and of a lesser worth than her peers......then when she hits her teens society will have a stronger chance over the greater numbers of another teen acting up, petty crime, civil cases etc. Id suggest its not worth the gamble.

    Plus most of the moneys probably just going back into the economy via the dressmakers anyway.


    The 120 seems bang on target, the - 2011 - 250 euro mentioned in link is excessive.


    *ibf all IBM/AMD and or edible chips


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    #25
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,975 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    admiralofthefleet wrote: »
    the catholic cult is worth billions, let them pay for ceremonies they force people to attend

    .. yes it's terrible watching the local RC Swat team dragging those screaming kids into the church against their will.................


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    #26
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    I'm sure that when the majority of kids are atheists, your wishes will be complied with.
    The majority of kids are atheist for 3 or 4 years....but hey thats a whole other head banging thread


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    #27
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Ghost Buster wrote: »
    I was replying to your post not the OP. Being annoyed (as an atheist or other wise!) that families feel it neccessesary to spent grant money from taxes on a religious ceremony is not denying them their religious freedom.

    And as I stated, I can see it annoys some tax payers, but if children are pretty much being forced by schools to do these ceremonies, and are being told they have to dress up for it, you can hardly blame parents in financial trouble for availing of this grant.


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    #28
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,975 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    I would say the majority of kids doing first holy communion have no idea what their brainwashing means.

    I'm sure you'll straighten them out when they get older.


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    #29
    RayCon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,835 ✭✭✭RayCon


    At least the rental of Ferrari's / Helicopters for the "big day" seems to have gone away ......


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    #30
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    And as I stated, I can see it annoys some tax payers, but if children are pretty much being forced by schools to do these ceremonies, and are being told they have to dress up for it, you can hardly blame parents in financial trouble for availing of this grant.
    My Rc school isnt forcing my child or the three others in his class who are not catholic to do anything and i doubt many schools do. Its down to the parents I would say.


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    #31
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Truncheon Rouge wrote: »
    Remove every trace of religious debate from this and you're left with something like this:
    Theres an almost all pervading cultural ceremony in all parts of the country for young girls, which is attended by probably 90% of a young girls peers from her schoolroom to the kids on her street.
    Its pretty much a given part of life for a girl. Not being able to afford a dress like 9/10 of her class will likely do great damage to her self esteem and isolate her from her peers.
    I'd guess this will have a ripple effect over the persons lifetime, leaving her with the proverbial chip* on the shoulder, so in terms of how she turns out, and how productive she is over her lifetime it may be well worth the 120.

    Basically do you want her to have the opinion of herself that she's an outsider and of a lesser worth than her peers......then when she hits her teens society will have a stronger chance over the greater numbers of another teen acting up, petty crime, civil cases etc. Id suggest its not worth the gamble.

    Plus most of the moneys probably just going back into the economy via the dressmakers anyway.






    *ibf all IBM/AMD and or edible chips

    Is there not something very weird about a ceremony in which we dress up little girls as little brides?

    I remember learning about transubstantiation and the body of Christ. I though it was complete rubbish and more evidence of adults being pretty damned stupid.

    Of course at the time I didnt know about cannibalism so I couldn't really provide a decent argument on the matter.


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