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Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

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    #482
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    gurramok wrote: »
    Of course you would wear it and label objectors "to grow up". You're a self proclaimed Unionist. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80553785&postcount=24 A pity you did not declare your background to others in this thread. By the way, i'm Nationalist.

    LOL @ an old, old, story.

    2012 and we're still labelling ourselves? :D

    Let ye and ye wear your silly poppies and lillies and be done with it. There's far more important things to be worrying about.


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    #483
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    bobbysands81 wrote: »

    'Casualties of war' - murder has never sounded so nice.
    The IRA quite liked the sound of it too


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    #484
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    philologos wrote: »
    I remember the dead at war and it's futility at this time of year. Many including the CofE see it for this purpose from past experience.


    ...which is irrelevant, as I showed here....
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81521664&postcount=446
    lordsutch wrote:
    Well in defence of Iwasfrozen, the concept of Ireland being a colony/former colony is only a recent concept (hard to beleve now), maybe even as recent as since the 1998 Good Friday Agreement, .

    ...bollocks.
    Japer wrote:
    All deserve our respect and we should remember their fallen comrades, so the likes of you can live in peace and freedom. If nobody done the dirty work / stood up for defence of these islands, you would be speaking Spanish, German or Russian by now..

    The poppy funds do not go towards WW1 and II families, graves etc, but all ex service personnell. Nobody involved in the business of empire deserves respect.
    FrattonFred wrote:
    You're not really I'm a position to judge to be honest, not when you give yourself the user name of a prominent member of an organisation ..

    He could be called Robert Mugabe and it would make no difference to the fact that funds from the poppy benefit veterans of Iraq, Kenya, Aden, Rhodesia and the rest.
    Judgementday wrote:
    I consider myself very lucky to have grown up in the first generation of my family for many years not to have had to join the forces - thanks to the sacrifices made by millions of others...

    The millions of others who resisted and put an end to the Empire across the globe?


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    #485
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Nodin wrote: »
    He could be called Robert Mugabe and it would make no difference to the fact that funds from the poppy benefit veterans of Iraq, Kenya, Aden, Rhodesia and the rest.

    There you go with that acorn again....

    They also go to help those injured in Bosnia, the Falklands, Kosovo, The first Iraq war (Hey, even the IRA called a ceasefire when that was on to allow the British army to concentrate forces on liberating Kuwait) Sierra Leone, Afghanistan (You know, the UN sanctioned operation, unreservedly supported by the Irish).

    And lets face it, the ones I'm talking about are generally a bit more recent and therefore a lot more likely to have ex soldiers in need of assistance than the ones you keep banging on about.


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    #486
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    There you go (.........)on about.

    NI and the 2nd Iraq war were "recent" too. The truth of the matter is its about supporting ex-British service personnell.


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    #487
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,004 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Nodin wrote: »
    NI and the 2nd Iraq war were "recent" too. The truth of the matter is its about supporting ex-British service personnell.

    I wouldn't imagine that any of them are living here, so they wouldn't be reaping the benefits of a poppy collection in Ireland.


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    #488
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    I wouldn't imagine that any of them are living here, so they wouldn't be reaping the benefits of a poppy collection in Ireland.

    ....in which case they're more than likely veterans of the older conflicts and the point still stands.


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    #489
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,004 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....in which case they're more than likely veterans of the older conflicts and the point still stands.

    As I said in a previous post, those people are probably long since dead.


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    #490
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    As I said in a previous post, those people are probably long since dead.


    ...then who, exactly, gets the money?


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    #491
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...then who, exactly, gets the money?

    This, http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81489233&postcount=240


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    #492
    Japer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    Nodin wrote: »
    " ex-British service personnell "

    Millions of people around the world - including hundreds of thousands of Irish people - are proud to have served as " British service personnell", and the charity remember their dead and helps in a small way surviving personnell and their families who may be in need, inc some in Ireland. The money the charity gets in Ireland stays in Ireland. British service personnell are generally highly respected around the world, as high as an army / navy / air force of so many hundreds of thousands of people can be. Even their enemies respect them. Time you left your bitterness behind.


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    #493
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,004 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...then who, exactly, gets the money?

    I remember reading in one of these annual threads something about old graves getting maintained etc... I wouldn't have thought they'd collect enough money to do much else here.

    In my opinion the British government should cough up, as they were the ones ultimately responsible for sending these people off into battle. The veterans in need shouldn't need hand-outs from charities.


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    #494
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Japer wrote: »
    Millions of people around the world - including hundreds of thousands of Irish people - are proud to have served as " British service personnell", and the charity remember their dead and helps in a small way surviving personnell and their families who may be in need, inc some in Ireland.............

    Yes, I'm sure the same folk that imprisoned Gandhi, put down risings all over Africa and Asia are "proud" and indeed may well be on hard times now....I struggle to see why I should rate them any differently to a KGB veterans organisation however. I also fail to see how "some in Ireland" is relevant. Am I supposed to go "O its ok" if somebody responsible for shooting down Malays, Burmese or Kenyans happens to be Irish?


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    #495
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    I remember reading in one of these annual threads something about old graves getting maintained etc... I wouldn't have thought they'd collect enough money to do much else here.

    In my opinion the British government should cough up, as they were the ones ultimately responsible for sending these people off into battle. The veterans in need shouldn't need hand-outs from charities.

    A seperate charity could be founded to cater for graves for WW1 and WW2 veterans. Other than that, we hit the same difficulty again.


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    #496
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    I remember reading in one of these annual threads something about old graves getting maintained etc... I wouldn't have thought they'd collect enough money to do much else here.

    In my opinion the British government should cough up, as they were the ones ultimately responsible for sending these people off into battle. The veterans in need shouldn't need hand-outs from charities.

    WWi and WWII graves are maintained by the CWGC, not the RBL. http://www.cwgc.org/


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    #497
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,004 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    WWi and WWII graves are maintained by the CWGC, not the RBL. http://www.cwgc.org/

    It looks like whoever posted the source of my information was wrong.:(


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    #498
    Japer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    Nodin wrote: »
    I struggle to see why I should rate them any differently to a KGB veterans organisation however.

    Hundreds of thousands of Irish people did not volunteer for the KGB. Hundreds of thousands of Irish people did join the UK forces, and many gave their lives fighting for the freedom of speech you have today, and which exists in most English speaking countries around the world. If you think the British armed forces are comparable to the Nzis or the KGB, maybe you would prefered to live in a world in which they won? ( WW2 and the cold war ). Yes or no?

    May I remind you that British service personnell are generally highly respected around the world, as high as an army / navy / air force of so many hundreds of thousands of people can be. Even their enemies respect them. Time you left your bitterness behind.


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    #499
    Madam
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    Japer wrote: »
    Hundreds of thousands of Irish people did not volunteer for the KGB. Hundreds of thousands of Irish people did join the UK forces, and many gave their lives fighting for the freedom of speech you have today, and which exists in most English speaking countries around the world. If you think the British armed forces are comparable to the Nzis or the KGB, maybe you would prefered to live in a world in which they won? ( WW2 and the cold war ). Yes or no?

    May I remind you that British service personnell are generally highly respected around the world, as high as an army / navy / air force of so many hundreds of thousands of people can be. Even their enemies respect them. Time you left your bitterness behind.

    Being respected doesn't mean your liked though(just saying:)).


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    #500
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,202 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Fratton Fred wrote: »

    You're not really I'm a position to judge to be honest, not when you give yourself the user name of a prominent member of an organisation who's strategy was to target civilians and carried out more than their fair share of murder.

    On that very basis I presume you refuse to wear a poppy?


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    #501
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    bobbysands81 wrote: »

    On that very basis I presume you refuse to wear a poppy?

    Nope, I'll ne wearing one on Nov 11th but I will also respect people wearing the easter Lilly come March.

    I recognise that both symbols have a wider symbolic meaning that goes beyond the narrow perceptions shown on this thread.


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    #502
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Japer wrote: »
    Hundreds of thousands of Irish people did not volunteer for the KGB. Hundreds of ...........behind.

    Dear o dear. The comparison with the KGB wasn't based on Irish people being in it but its use to crush dissent across the soviet sphere....And again, you keep going on about WWII - the funds have nothing to do with WWII.


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    #503
    Greentopia
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭Greentopia


    old hippy wrote: »
    LOL @ an old, old, story.

    2012 and we're still labelling ourselves? :D

    Let ye and ye wear your silly poppies and lillies and be done with it. There's far more important things to be worrying about.

    Fully agree. I wonder about people who get so exercised about this issue. I don't know anyone who gives a toss about such anachronistic sectarianism and tribalism. It belongs to another age.


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    #504
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,202 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Nope, I'll ne wearing one on Nov 11th but I will also respect people wearing the easter Lilly come March.

    I recognise that both symbols have a wider symbolic meaning that goes beyond the narrow perceptions shown on this thread.

    So you're happy to commemorate an "organisation who's strategy was to target civilians and carried out more than their fair share of murder."?


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    #505
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    So you're happy to commemorate an "organisation who's strategy was to target civilians and carried out more than their fair share of murder."?


    Well you easily throw around terms as child killers at the British Army, the Irish Republican Army killed pensioners, children and kids shopping in shopping centres like in Warrington. IRA child murderers.

    The fecking lot of ye's were a vile bunch, all played a part in a cesspit of Northern society.

    All ye care about is your own lot, maybe read a few books from the other view, rather than read more stuff you really, really, like.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #506
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,202 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    K-9 wrote: »
    Well you easily throw around terms as child killers at the British Army, the Irish Republican Army killed pensioners, children and kids shopping in shopping centres like in Warrington. IRA child murderers.

    The fecking lot of ye's were a vile bunch, all played a part in a cesspit of Northern society.

    All ye care about is your own lot, maybe read a few books from the other view, rather than read more stuff you really, really, like.

    They are child killers, the Empire have killed untold amounts all around the world... but don't dare fight back.

    Commemorate them if you like, I fully agree you should, but open your eyes and educate yourself on what you're commemorating.


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    #507
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    They are child killers, the Empire have killed untold amounts all around the world... but don't dare fight back.

    Commemorate them if you like, I fully agree you should, but open your eyes and educate yourself on what you're commemorating.

    You say that as if it is some type of revelation or something, which is fine. Thing is it isn't a revelation and coming from a Republican who supported the "armed struggle" that murdered children routinely.

    I've no doubt you knew that anyway.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #508
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    K-9 wrote: »
    You say that as if it is some type of revelation or something, which is fine. Thing is it isn't a revelation and coming from a Republican who supported the "armed struggle" that murdered children routinely.

    Is there a hierarchical of child victims? Its ok to fund and remember with praise child killers from the BA but its stomach churning to do the same for republicans?

    There should be no doubt that child killers from whichever background should be condemned. However poppy funds do go to soldiers who murdered children in NI (in Irish context), you see the problem now with the red poppy? If the red poppy only represented BA soldiers in WWI, there wouldn't be much of a problem.


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    #509
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    gurramok wrote: »

    Is there a hierarchical of child victims? Its ok to fund and remember with praise child killers from the BA but its stomach churning to do the same for republicans?

    There should be no doubt that child killers from whichever background should be condemned. However poppy funds do go to soldiers who murdered children in NI (in Irish context), you see the problem now with the red poppy? If the red poppy only represented BA soldiers in WWI, there wouldn't be much of a problem.

    If someone calls themselves Bobby Sands then they are obviously a supporter of the PIRA.

    That means they have no moral highground to claim.

    Someone who wears an Easter Lilly is in no position to criticise someone for wearing a poppy.


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    #510
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    If someone calls themselves Bobby Sands then they are obviously a supporter of the PIRA.

    That means they have no moral highground to claim.

    Someone who wears an Easter Lilly is in no position to criticise someone for wearing a poppy.
    Attack the post not the poster (or indeed the poster's name).


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    #511
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Attack the post not the poster (or indeed the poster's name).

    They obviously forgot to announce your appointment as a moderator:rolleyes:


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