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If you are pregnant , don't bother with MY school

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    #452
    MrTsSnickers
    Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭MrTsSnickers


    mr_edge_to_you wrote: »
    The word you're looking for is "spelt". I know it's a bit late but I couldn't resist.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelt

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/spell

    It can be both.


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    #453
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    mr_edge_to_you wrote: »
    The word you're looking for is "spelt". I know it's a bit late but I couldn't resist.
    What's the wheat reference?:confused:


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    #454
    Robdude
    Closed Accounts Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Robdude


    Biggins wrote: »
    Why?
    Would it put you off having too much sex as a teen?
    Maybe there SHOULD be one at every school? :cool:

    Because there are certain realities of the world that we live in. It's not a magically, happy, wonderland.

    The truth is that the vast majority of teenagers are unprepared to have children. They can't support them financially and most of them aren't mature enough to raise them. There are plenty of studies that show children benefit from two loving parents, and the stability of the majority of teenage relationships is unlikely to provide that.

    The other truth is that teenagers (and to a lessor extent, adults) are not intelligent, individuals who make rational decisions based on what they objectively believe is right. A very large percentage of people are going to do whatever everyone else is doing. Something being socially acceptable does encourage it, particularly amongst teenagers. Look at how ridiculous fashion or music trends are from generation to generation or even year to year. A few kids do something, it catches on, everyone does it - even though it's retarded, then a year or two later everyone looks back and says, 'Man, I can't believe we used to do that!'

    It's my personal belief that teenage pregnancies shouldn't be encouraged. At least the types that I feel are irresponsible. The standards I personally believe in are based around the parents ability to raise the children, if you show me a 15 year old couple who both want a child, both are financially stable enough to support themselves and child, and both mature enough to raise a child - awesome. Go for it! I support *that*. But it's virtually impossible to find someone who can honestly say they meet those requirements while still being in school.

    Schools *already* have policies surround enrolment that are different than what the law says. At least, the schools I went to did. For example, they had dress codes. They wanted to encourage certain values that we, as a society, seem to value - so they made the rule and they enforce it. And, it kinda-sorta works. It works better than *NOT* enforcing it.

    It's my personal belief that this country would be better off with fewer ill-prepared parents. And, while I can't speak to whether or not this particular girl and her husband/boyfriend/child's father are ill-prepared or not; it is my belief that the vast, vast, vast majority of students would not be.

    I have no problem with teenagers or anyone else having sex. But I can't see an argument for why we should encourage teenagers to have children...and I do believe that having pregnant girls in school is likely to encourage other teenagers to think it is a normal thing. I'd rather send the message that 'Getting pregnant means you miss out on things and maybe you should think twice before doing it' than 'Getting pregnant is totally cool - Emily did it and got to miss like all her tests and still did just fine and everyone was super nice to her and gave her lots of attention and she told me that now she gets X euro each month and I could buy a lot of stuff with X euro!'

    But that's just my opinion. I don't haven't seen a lot of hard evidence on the topic and I'm certainly willing to change my opinion in light of contradictory evidence. But I just don't see much of a benefit.


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    #455
    MrTsSnickers
    Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭MrTsSnickers


    dvpower wrote: »
    What's the wheat reference?:confused:

    Simply, I thought it was funny.


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    #456
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    What kills me about things like this is that when it comes to issues like single mothers the church are extremely vocal yet when it comes to the child abusers and rapists their organiszation fostered their no where near as vocal!


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    #457
    kincsem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,013 ✭✭✭kincsem


    No room at the inn, innit?


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    #458
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    She reports that she was given an enrolment form, copies of subject choices and advised to get a uniform and books.
    She understood from this action that she had been accepted by the school





    Since when is been given an enrolment form and acceptance of enrolment?



    Principal is a header, the state department of education needs a massive overhaul


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    #459
    FoxT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,204 ✭✭✭FoxT


    http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/vitalstats/2010/vstats_q42010.pdf

    There are about 135,000 females in Ireland aged 15-19 inclusive.

    There are about 2000 live births every year to mothers under 20.

    I think that this is undesirable (Ability of parents in this age group to provide emotional & financial support for their children, etc etc) .

    However, discriminating against young pregnant girls will not achieve anything, except perhaps drive some to the UK for abortions.

    A publicly funded school, regardless of ethos should be prohibited from using a girl's pregnancy or parental status as grounds for discrimination.

    I agree with the ombudsman's assessment that the school should apologise. I also think that it is in the public interest that the school be named, because citizens have a right to know.

    http://bit.ly/KqAJEE

    Finally I am gobsmacked that in the 2007 WSE it was found not to have a board of management. Reading the report it is hard to avoid the impression that the principla was running the school almost as a personal fiefdom. I find this incredible.

    -FoxT


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    #460
    analucija
    Closed Accounts Posts: 363 ✭✭analucija


    It serves her right. She should have an abortion and follow good old catholic practice and pretend it didn't happen. She could be a perfect role model in the school then.


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    #461
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    micropig wrote: »
    She reports that she was given an enrolment form, copies of subject choices and advised to get a uniform and books.
    She understood from this action that she had been accepted by the school





    Since when is been given an enrolment form and acceptance of enrolment?



    Principal is a header, the state department of education needs a massive overhaul

    See the bit in red? You left it out in the second part of your post:confused:


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    #462
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Why in God's name (oh the irony) is this school not being named and shamed?
    Seriously, what's all this "A school in Munster" crap? If this is how they behave, they effing well deserve to have their reputation trashed. If there are parents out there who don't mind such appalling discrimination they're still free to send their kids there.


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    #463
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Abi wrote: »
    While I agree with you, try telling that to a school full of teenagers. Even if the principal bit their tongue, she's subject to gossip and bullying as soon as she starts showing. Have to admit, that can't be easy for a teen mother. Then having to study and sit exams in between it all?

    So the solution is to ban her from the school altogether?
    Great, what's next? Banning openly GBLT kids from schools because they might get bullied? Banning kids with funny accents from schools because they might get bullied? Banning kids who are shorter than average, who have acne, whose parents have split up, whose parents have committed crimes and are known for such, who have ginger hair, who aren't good at maths.....

    How is this example of discrimination any worse than those I have outlined above? Or do you actually believe that all of the above categories should also be prevented from getting an education "because they might be gossiped about and bullied"?

    Absolutely BS attempt to justify this IMO.


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    #464
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    Ghost Buster wrote: »
    See the bit in red? You left it out in the second part of your post:confused:

    She reports that she was given an enrolment form, copies of subject choices and advised to get a uniform and books.


    Copies of subject choices - so she could consider if she the classes she wanted to do were available to her

    'advised to get uniform & books' - could also be interpreted as advised on 'what uniform & books she would require if accepted' - so she would be able to make an informed decision on how much it would cost her.

    Has she a letter stating she was accepted?


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    #465
    omega666
    Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭omega666


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    So the solution is to ban her from the school altogether?
    Great, what's next? Banning openly GBLT kids from schools because they might get bullied? Banning kids with funny accents from schools because they might get bullied? Banning kids who are shorter than average, who have acne, whose parents have split up, whose parents have committed crimes and are known for such, who have ginger hair, who aren't good at maths.....

    How is this example of discrimination any worse than those I have outlined above? Or do you actually believe that all of the above categories should also be prevented from getting an education "because they might be gossiped about and bullied"?

    Absolutely BS attempt to justify this IMO.



    there is no need to justify anything. Schools are allowed by the state to set their own admission policy and every school reserves the right to refuse admission. A school is not obliged to take any student.


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    #466
    FoxT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,204 ✭✭✭FoxT


    micropig wrote: »
    She reports that she was given an enrolment form, copies of subject choices and advised to get a uniform and books.


    Copies of subject choices - so she could consider if she the classes she wanted to do were available to her

    'advised to get uniform & books' - could also be interpreted as advised on 'what uniform & books she would require if accepted' - so she would be able to make an informed decision on how much it would cost her.

    Has she a letter stating she was accepted?

    To be fair, it is clear that she was given the impression that her enrolment was a formality. If there was a problem I doubt that they would have led her down the garden path in that way.


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    #467
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    omega666 wrote: »
    Schools are allowed by the state to set their own admission policy and every school reserves the right to refuse admission. A school is not obliged to take any student.

    Could you give us a quote for that? Because I'm pretty sure the ombudsman statement said that schools are only allowed to discriminate in terms of a single sex school only accepting one gender and a religious school only accepting people of that religion.

    Never said anything about being stuck up about not accepting single mothers.


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    #468
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    micropig wrote: »
    She reports that she was given an enrolment form, copies of subject choices and advised to get a uniform and books.


    Copies of subject choices - so she could consider if she the classes she wanted to do were available to her

    'advised to get uniform & books' - could also be interpreted as advised on 'what uniform & books she would require if accepted' - so she would be able to make an informed decision on how much it would cost her.

    Has she a letter stating she was accepted?
    You are scraping the bottom of the barrel of logic here.


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    #469
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    micropig wrote: »
    She reports that she was given an enrolment form, copies of subject choices and advised to get a uniform and books.


    Copies of subject choices - so she could consider if she the classes she wanted to do were available to her

    'advised to get uniform & books' - could also be interpreted as advised on 'what uniform & books she would require if accepted' - so she would be able to make an informed decision on how much it would cost her.

    Has she a letter stating she was accepted?

    I dont know and neither do you. You use words like 'could' and 'if' a lot.
    You also interpret the schools 'advising' her to get uniform and books as suggesting she check out the price of same. Your leaps of logic are amazing!


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    #470
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    dvpower wrote: »
    You are scraping the bottom of the barrel of logic here.

    Surely it's central to the arguement if she was actually accepted in to the school in the first place

    Ghost Buster wrote: »
    I dont know and neither do you. You use words like 'could' and 'if' a lot.

    She reports that she was given an enrolment form, copies of subject choices and advised to get a uniform and books.
    She reports that she was given an enrolment form, copies of subject choices and advised to get a uniform and books.
    She understood from this action that she had been accepted by the school

    Maybe she also assumed too much. Does she have a letter of acceptance?


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    #471
    omega666
    Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭omega666


    true-or-false wrote: »
    Could you give us a quote for that? Because I'm pretty sure the ombudsman statement said that schools are only allowed to discriminate in terms of a single sex school only accepting one gender and a religious school only accepting people of that religion.

    Never said anything about being stuck up about not accepting single mothers.


    nope, there was a case of a traveller a few months ago in clonmel who was refused admission because priority was given to students who had a parent in the school. they took it to court on discrimination and lost.

    google admission policies and you will see there are many wierd and wonderfull
    ones.


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    #472
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    micropig wrote: »


    Maybe she also assumed too much. Does she have a letter of acceptance?

    I don't think I have ever seen a school give a letter of acceptance. If they said get a uniform and books I would take that as an acceptance.


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    #473
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    true-or-false wrote: »
    Could you give us a quote for that? Because I'm pretty sure the ombudsman statement said that schools are only allowed to discriminate in terms of a single sex school only accepting one gender and a religious school only accepting people of that religion.

    Never said anything about being stuck up about not accepting single mothers.
    That falls under the religious ethos banner.


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    #474
    plein de force
    Registered Users Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭plein de force


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This young girl can't get into school and yet the bankers who ruined the enonomy can send their kids to any school they want, some justice !

    Why do bankers get introduced to EVERY SINGLE THREAD


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    #475
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    hondasam wrote: »
    I don't think I have ever seen a school give a letter of acceptance. If they said get a uniform and books I would take that as an acceptance.

    You would assume to be accepted, before you even filled out and handed in the application form?
    She reports that she was given an enrolment form


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    #476
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    micropig wrote: »
    You would assume to be accepted, before you even filled out and handed in the application form?

    what parent is going to spend money on a uniform and books for a school unless their child was accepted?
    btw you question was about an acceptance letter or the part I replied too anyway.
    Enrolment form you bring with you the day you start.


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    #477
    crucamim
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    Some people cannot accept that a Catholic school has the right to remain a Catholic school.

    Why can the anti-Catholics not establish their own schools? Their schools could accept this young woman.


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    #478
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    crucamim wrote: »
    Some people cannot accept that a Catholic school has the right to remain a Catholic school.

    Why can the anti-Catholics not establish their own schools? Their schools could accept this young woman.

    This woman is a catholic afaik.


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    #479
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    omega666 wrote: »
    there is no need to justify anything. Schools are allowed by the state to set their own admission policy and every school reserves the right to refuse admission. A school is not obliged to take any student.

    Ah listen south africa used that admissions bs to deny blacks entry to their schools, the australians used the same for aborigines but when it comes to ireland's particular prejudice seems to lie with single mothers. Throughout our history the way the state has treated single mothers based on some outdated catholic dogma has been an embarrassment. Wheter it be the magdaline laundries, this inept principal or some of the posters on here.

    Discrimination is discrimination is discrimination. When it comes to admission policies my primary concern would be that schools do not discrimnate not whatever their regressive ethos says about one group or another.


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    #480
    FoxT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,204 ✭✭✭FoxT


    crucamim wrote: »
    Some people cannot accept that a Catholic school has the right to remain a Catholic school.

    Why can the anti-Catholics not establish their own schools? Their schools could accept this young woman.

    1 - A Catholic school that is FUNDED ENTIRELY BY THE TAXPAYER, should not have the right to discriminate. They are being paid for by people of all religions & none, and should behave accordingly.

    2 - Why cant the Catholics who wish to discriminate, establish their own schools? The existing publicly funded school system must remain open & non-discriminatory.

    And finally, Catholic school or not, policies which discriminate against students based on their being pregnant, or already a parent, are simply unchristian.


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    #481
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    hondasam wrote: »
    what parent is going to spend money on a uniform and books for a school unless their child was accepted?
    btw you question was about an acceptance letter or the part I replied too anyway.
    Enrolment form you bring with you the day you start.
    She attended for an interview with School A.She reports that she was given an enrolment form, copies of subject choices and advised to get a uniform and books.

    She understood from this action that she had been accepted by the school. Her parents thought the school should know that their daughter was pregnant and contacted a member of staff to advise of this.


    She attended a meeting with the principal. We only have her word against the principal that a definite offer was made. there is no mention of her parents being at the meeting. Later they contacted a member of staff.

    She told her parents she had been accepted. She still hadn't returned the application form.

    Giving uniform & books lists - to be able to consider the expense involved with going to the school.

    This doesn't make sense to me and I think the Ombudsman, in my opinion has ulterior motives with the release of this information. The department of education carried out an inspection in the school in 2007 and knew about the situation re: the BOM. Rurari Quinn gave a sketchy answer at best on the radio earlier regarding introducing legislation. In his opinion it is needed, but he'd have to wait what the experts say.


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