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Abortion

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    #752
    Greentopia
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭Greentopia


    prinz wrote: »
    On the other hand there's a queue of pro-choicers looking to sponsor abortions out of their own pockets at the airport I've noticed.

    Sorry, I have no idea what you mean. I haven't seen that. Not being snarky. Can you provide a link or some evidence to explain that please?


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    #753
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    prinz wrote: »
    On the other hand there's a queue of pro-choicers looking to sponsor abortions out of their own pockets at the airport I've noticed.

    Do they have to put the company logo on the foetus?


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    #754
    Stupify
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Stupify


    prinz wrote: »
    On the other hand there's a queue of pro-choicers looking to sponsor abortions out of their own pockets at the airport I've noticed.

    If thats true then its sickening.


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    #755
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    smash wrote: »
    Not snide?

    You'll notice once again the crass generalisations in the post I responded to. If that's how people want to play it fine with me. There was actually a decent discussion going with good input from all sides I thought.. but it's giving way again to simple mudslinging.
    Greentopia wrote: »
    Sorry, I have no idea what you mean. I haven't seen that. Not being snarky. Can you provide a link or some evidence to explain that please?

    Sarcasm.


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    #756
    Greentopia
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭Greentopia


    prinz wrote: »
    Sarcasm.

    I see. If abortion was introduced and paid for by the HSE obviously it would be just another service covered by taxes. No "sponsorship" needed.

    Or perhaps pro-choicers should randomly stop lone women of a certain age category going through our airports who look like they might be on their way to the U.K. for abortions? Perhaps we should ask them to kindly identify themselves by wearing a sticker or a t-shirt that states their intentions. :pac:

    There are pro-choice crisis pregnancy organisations who do what they can within the narrow constraints of the law here to help provide councelling and information about abortion options in the U.K., and who actively campaign for a change in legislation to allow abortion here. That's the most can be done right now.


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    #757
    Demonique
    Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Demonique


    PrincessLola wrote: »
    Pro-choicers always use the heartbeat claim to try and guilt women. But meh, lots of things have heartbeats.

    Its a potential life. I don't give a f*ck what a bunch of men writing the Irish law say otherwise.

    That would be pro-lifers (or as I like to call them anti-choicers or forced-birthers) not pro-choicers


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    #758
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Stupify wrote: »
    What do you mean by child care?

    And couldn't she have it done on a weekend so as not to take time off work?

    Women who already have children have abortions, and they have to sort out child care for the trip.

    Clincs are usually monday to friday and also some people work the weekend.


    Seriously do you even live in the real world or in some sort of bubble.
    prinz wrote: »
    On the other hand there's a queue of pro-choicers looking to sponsor abortions out of their own pockets at the airport I've noticed.


    There are charities for this, there are funds which will help women and then when they are able the repay it, often several times over to help other women. there are also volunteer who put women up in the UK while they are there for an abortion.

    http://www.abortionsupport.org.uk/


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    #759
    Greentopia
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭Greentopia


    Sharrow wrote: »
    There are charities for this, there are funds which will help women and then when they are able the repay it, often several times over to help other women. there are also volunteer who put women up in the UK while they are there for an abortion.

    http://www.abortionsupport.org.uk/

    I didn't know that. That's excellent, fair play to them, putting their money (and time) where their convictions are to help out these women.

    Edit-and doubly so that they're people in another jurisdiction who help out Irish women in need, in stark contrast to the shameful way Irish women who seek terminations are treated in their own country.


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    #760
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    oh and tax payers money is already paying for abortions, the HSE has been paying clinics in the UK for them for years.

    http://www.cinews.ie/article.php?artid=1803


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    #761
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Sharrow wrote: »
    There are charities for this, there are funds which will help women and then when they are able the repay it, often several times over to help other women. there are also volunteer who put women up in the UK while they are there for an abortion.

    ..and there are charities to help out families in need who get donations from people including some from the pro-life side. On top of social welfare help paid for in part by taxes, again from people including pro-life people. There are also plenty of pro-life people who act as foster parents and adoptive parents. So comments like..
    Greentopia wrote:
    You won't find many of them offering to help contribute to the financial burden of raising these children they so vociferously campaign to save in the womb.

    are essentially meaningless nonsense.


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    #762
    Stupify
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Stupify


    Sharrow wrote: »
    Women who already have children have abortions, and they have to sort out child care for the trip.

    Clincs are usually monday to friday and also some people work the weekend.


    Seriously do you even live in the real world or in some sort of bubble.


    Alrite man, no need to be an asshole.

    But still I disagree with you. If a woman has made the hard decision that she wants to have an abortion she will go to the UK and to have one even if she needs to take a day or two off work and get someone to mind her other kids (if she has some).

    My point was that the Pro-life people here aren't preventing people having abortions; they are just pushing them over to England.



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    #763
    Greentopia
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭Greentopia


    prinz wrote: »
    ..and there are charities to help out families in need who get donations from people including some from the pro-life side.

    Families, not pregnant women who wish to procure abortions. I'm not contending that 'pro-lifers' don't support charities and organisations that align with their religious, social and political ethos.
    And Abortionsupport is a secular charity, but not in the traditional sense of just doling out money to a worthy cause. It provides support, accomodation and information along with some financial help if needed.
    prinz wrote: »
    On top of social welfare help paid for in part by taxes, again from people including pro-life people. There are also plenty of pro-life people who act as foster parents and adoptive parents.

    Sure, though if they could pick and choose where their taxes go I wonder how many would willingly continue to pay for certain social welfare payments at the same levels as at present-if the views of some rabid social right-wingers on this board are anything to go by some of them would have vulnerable people destitute living on the streets with little or no social welfare net. And adoption or fostering is not done entirely for the benefit of the kids involved.
    But I digress...


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    #764
    chocolategirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭chocolategirl


    Sharrow wrote: »
    There are women who want to have an abortion who can't travel for one.
    They are stopping those women.


    Oh I didn't travel for my recent one, I did it myself. Such was the despair and desperation.


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    #765
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Greentopia wrote: »
    Families, not pregnant women who wish to procure abortions. I'm not contending that 'pro-lifers' don't support charities and organisations that align with their religious, social and political ethos....

    They support pregnant women, before and after birth contrary to your earlier claim that pro-lifers all turn their backs once a child is born. There is also groups who would be pro-life which offer counselling services to women who have had abortions.

    Why would someone who doesn't support abortion help someone to procure one? Does that make any sense to you? Does AA help people financially to go to the pub and booze? :confused: Trying to get upset because pro-life groups aren't paying for abortions is ridiculous.


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    #766
    Greentopia
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭Greentopia


    prinz wrote: »
    They support pregnant women, before and after birth contrary to your earlier claim that pro-lifers all turn their backs once a child is born. There is also groups who would be pro-life which offer counselling services to women who have had abortions.

    Why would someone who doesn't support abortion help someone to procure one? Does that make any sense to you? Does AA help people financially to go to the pub and booze? :confused:

    Obviously I didn't mean pro-lifers should help someone to procure one :rolleyes: If you wish to deliberately misinterpret what I write fine. I've said what I wish to on the subject.


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    #767
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    chocolategirl wrote: »
    Oh I didn't travel for my recent one, I did it myself. Such was the despair and desperation.

    Which is illegal and poses a hell of a danger to yourself, hope you are ok and you got medical check up.


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    #768
    katisha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭katisha


    Are you in AA? I am and have been for years and I've seen AA's go get drink or give the money for drink when someone is out of their head and is going to break in somewhere or is a danger to the public? And drive a drunk person to an off licence and get drink for them. Its done out of concern for the person who NEEDS that drink and who might harm themselves or others regardless that they should not be drinking. Its out of compassion and empathy for what the person is going through. And here it is the word 'compassion'. We don't always agree with things but surely to God the person before us, suffering deserves our help.

    The rights and wrongs of abortion are personal. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you think its morally wrong then thats ok. If you are pro life thats ok too. If you are pro choice then thats ok. And if you are pregnant and absolutely cannot go through with it (and many here will never be in that situation) then thats ok too. Its for the person themselves to decide. And as for people who are the voice of the unborn - its commendable, but what about the people, the women who ARE born and are in dire straits?

    In an ideal world there would be no abortion or alcoholism, divorce, abuse, recession, depression and so on and so forth. But its NOT an ideal world. The answer to everything is love and compassion to your fellow man or woman and bloody hell its about time women got a bit of compassion.


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    #769
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    katisha wrote: »
    The answer to everything is love and compassion to your fellow man or woman and bloody hell its about time women got a bit of compassion.

    Indeed, but compassion and a thumbs up to do whatever are very different.


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    #770
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    While I personally would never consider having an abortion I respect every woman's right to choose so I'm pro-choice.

    I do think that if abortion were to made legal here it would need to be strictly regulated so we don't end up with a situation where it becomes just another form of contraception.

    If the mother is danger or has been raped or is very young I would be all for it but otherwise it needs to be regulated properly.


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    #771
    chocolategirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭chocolategirl


    Sharrow wrote: »
    Which is illegal and poses a hell of a danger to yourself, hope you are ok and you got medical check up.

    Well call the police Sharrow. I'm sure there's noone here who hasn't dropped a receipt on the ground or thrown a cigarette out a window and they are illegal too. Or parked where they shouldn't have.

    Of course I'm not ok. Yes abortion is very expensive and impossible when you've lost your job. So killing yourself is another option or if you already have a child then you can't do that so you do it yourself.

    And to the comment about free house and wage, i was a single mother at 19, never claimed lone parents, went out and worked and therefore never got a house handed to me. Thanks.


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    #772
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    chocolategirl wrote: »
    Thanks.

    Try some counselling.


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    #773
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Post abortion counselling is very hit and miss in this country.


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    #774
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    And also almost impossible to access if you live in a rural area. Some are quite god centered too which doesn't help.


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    #775
    chocolategirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭chocolategirl


    prinz wrote: »
    Try some counselling.

    Quoting 'thanks' from someones post and nothing else, you'd almost think you were being spiteful prinz, if we didn't know better.


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    #776
    chocolategirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭chocolategirl


    prinz wrote: »
    Indeed, but compassion and a thumbs up to do whatever are very different.

    Thumbs up to do whatever? Right so!


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    #777
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    eviltwin wrote: »
    And also almost impossible to access if you live in a rural area. Some are quite god centered too which doesn't help.

    http://www.abortionaftercare.ie/

    Not going to be available in every village and town but seems to be a decent spread there. Between that list they seem to have most of the country covered.
    chocolategirl wrote: »
    Quoting 'thanks' from someones post and nothing else, you'd almost think you were being spiteful prinz, if we didn't know better.

    I could have quoted the whole thing, but it was simpler to just cut it down. Could have been the first words, or the last. What you said to Sharrow wasn't really relevant to getting counselling.


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    #778
    chocolategirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭chocolategirl


    quote 'thanks'

    Blatantly ignore everything else that was said. It was spite and an attempt to be cutting and dismissive Prinz. Harking to the days of old and there for all to see. Shut up mad woman in other words,


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    #779
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    chocolategirl wrote: »
    quote 'thanks'
    Blatantly ignore everything else that was said. It was spite and an attempt to be cutting and dismissive Prinz. Harking to the days of old and there for all to see. Shut up mad woman in other words,

    Yes, that's it exactly. You're just making it clear that counselling is more than likely required.


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    #780
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Prinz its not as simple as that. As I said some have a very religious undercurrent going on and for a lot of women the pure fear of someone finding out is enough to put them off. The last thing you want when you are going to see a counsellor is a bunch of nuts protesting outside


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    #781
    chocolategirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭chocolategirl


    Ok Prinz we'll all scuttle off and get the counselling required and some valium to help us to shut up until such a day as national fun is announced and we get a big wink and a 'thumbs up' yay!


This discussion has been closed.
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