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Abortion

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    #722
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    LorraineMcFly wrote: »
    also i disagree, if im provided with a pic of a 22 week old premature baby, i can see hmm look here this is a fully formed baby .
    seems to be alot of people dont realise how developed a child is at that stage. maybe because they dont want to know cos its an uncomfortable truth

    I doubt most people don't know given how spuc and youth defense and the rest of the pro life activist have shove such pictures in people's faces over the years. For Christians they have a hell of a lack of compassion.


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    #723
    cbyrd
    Registered Users Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭cbyrd


    prinz wrote: »
    Technically in theory they are allowed to have the treatment here.

    However it isn't really properly dealt with in legislation so said treatment isn't actually provided here, at least not officially.

    AFAIK that's the current state affairs here. It's all a bit up in the air, and the governments for a log time now haven't really wanted to deal with it.

    So in theory the baby's life becomes more important than the mother ? :eek: how does that even make sense? Regardless of what the outcome of a democratic vote, this issue should be the first up there to be sorted. I had a lot of bad words in my head but i didn't type them ;)


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    #724
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Prinz makes a perfectly valid point. If one is of the opinion that a foetus of a certain age is not life or has no right to life then what does it matter why you terminate?


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    #725
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Prinz makes a perfectly valid point. If one is of the opinion that a foetus of a certain age is not life or has no right to life then what does it matter why you terminate?

    i don't recall any pro choice people making lists of when they decided it was or wasn't ok, unlike the pro lifers


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    #726
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    bluewolf wrote: »
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Prinz makes a perfectly valid point. If one is of the opinion that a foetus of a certain age is not life or has no right to life then what does it matter why you terminate?

    i don't recall any pro choice people making lists of when they decided it was or wasn't ok, unlike the pro lifers

    Im on the middle ground on this issue. I dont agree with all of what either side says. Some people though referred to gender based termination as wrong yet they dont see the foetus as life or having a right to life.


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    #727
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Prinz makes a perfectly valid point. If one is of the opinion that a foetus of a certain age is not life or has no right to life then what does it matter why you terminate?

    I agree.

    I think there are 3 sides to this debate.

    1. Those who think the fetus has an absolute right to life from conception. (No abortions, except when the child itself is unlikely to come to term).
    2. Those who think the fetus has an implied right to life from conception based on certain criteria (Abortions for rape, incest, mother is in danger, etc.).
    3. Those who think the fetus no right to life up to a certain point (Abortions for all!! This is me).

    I think most pro-lifers, and many pro-choicers, fall into the second group, but don't see it.

    My problem with the second group is the arbitrariness on which they assign and revoke the fetus' right to life.


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    #728
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    bluewolf wrote: »
    i don't recall any pro choice people making lists of when they decided it was or wasn't ok, unlike the pro lifers

    You must've missed smash's support for abortion on the grounds of gender being illegal then. Blinkers much?


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    #729
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    prinz wrote: »
    You must've missed smash's support for abortion on the grounds of gender being illegal then. Blinkers much?
    And you must have missed the part where I said it was there choice, but I still strongly disagree with gender based abortion. And that it's a non issue anyway because it is illegal.


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    #730
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    prinz wrote: »
    You must've missed smash's support for abortion on the grounds of gender being illegal then. Blinkers much?

    I didn't miss where he later changed his mind
    It's their choice to terminate but I really don't agree with it.

    blinkers to you too.


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    #731
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    bluewolf wrote: »
    I didn't miss where he later changed his mind.

    LOL. Jesus that's convenient isn't it.


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    #732
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    prinz wrote: »
    LOL. Jesus that's convenient isn't it.

    For what?


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    #733
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    if a foetus isnt developed enough to be called human it certainly isnt developed enough to be a gender regardless of xy or xx chromosomes.


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    #734
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    I didn't change my mind, I said I didn't agree with it and I wouldn't support it and that it's mainly ethnic minorities that agree with it because of their beliefs etc. I also stated it's illegal anyway so it's a non issue. And all that was within a few post of each other. Prinz, you were involved with my replies!
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    How if a foetus isnt developed enough to be called human it certainly isnt developed enough to be a gender regardless of xy or xx chromosomes
    Are you trolling now? You know know that's not true after a certain term!


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    #735
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    bluewolf wrote: »
    For what?

    For making snide stupid remarks about people who disagree with you.


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    #736
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    prinz wrote: »
    For making snide stupid remarks about people who disagree with you.

    Like "blinkers much"?

    How exactly is "i haven't seen lists being made" a snide stupid remark?
    Someone earlier did make a list with "rape" included in it, which is what sparked this whole spin off.

    Maybe you need to calm down a bit


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    #737
    Stupify
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Stupify


    Does the pro-life crowd actually think that they are stopping abortions?

    All they’re doing is forcing the women who want abortions to travel to England to get one.

    A woman isn’t going to say to herself "Oh, I can’t have the abortion in Ireland so I'm not going to have one at all".


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    #738
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    smash wrote: »
    No I don't agree they should have a choice for gender based abortion......

    So.... that choice should not be available.
    smash wrote: »
    I didn't change my mind, I said I didn't agree with it and I wouldn't support it .....

    Not quite, as above. Either they should have a choice or they shouldn't. Doesn't matter if you agree with it or not.
    bluewolf wrote: »
    I didn't miss where he later changed his mind
    blinkers to you too.

    Well according to himself he hasn't changed his mind.
    smash wrote: »
    No I don't agree they should have a choice for gender based abortion......
    bluewolf wrote: »
    Maybe you need to calm down a bit

    I'm perfectly calm. I just think the thread can proceed without frequent interjections attempting to label everyone on one side or the other.

    Lulz unlike the prolifers.... lulz (oh wait, now it's A single pro-lifer) Christ on a bike.


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    #739
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Stupify wrote: »
    Does the pro-life crowd actually think that they are stopping abortions?

    All they’re doing is forcing the women who want abortions to travel to England to get one.

    A woman isn’t going to say to herself "Oh, I can’t have the abortion in Ireland so I'm not going to have one at all".

    There are women who want to have an abortion who can't travel for one.
    They are stopping those women.


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    #740
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    prinz wrote: »
    I'm perfectly calm. I just think the thread can proceed without frequent interjections attempting to label everyone on one side or the other.

    Lulz unlike the prolifers.... lulz (oh wait, now it's A single pro-lifer) Christ on a bike.


    If your grand total of contributions is going to be lulz lulz LOL snide blinkers, I'm off


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    #741
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    bluewolf wrote: »
    If your grand total of contributions is going to be lulz lulz LOL snide blinkers, I'm off

    OK. I'll join your good self making sweeping generalisations about pro-choicers. That's bound to make for a good discussion.


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    #742
    Stupify
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Stupify


    Sharrow wrote: »
    There are women who want to have an abortion who can't travel for one.
    They are stopping those women.

    If you mean because of money constraints then they still are not preventing abortions.

    Abortions cost in the region of £350 so a woman who is strapped for cash wouldn’t be able to afford one even if it was in Ireland.


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    #743
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    smash wrote: »
    I didn't change my mind, I said I didn't agree with it and I wouldn't support it and that it's mainly ethnic minorities that agree with it because of their beliefs etc. I also stated it's illegal anyway so it's a non issue. And all that was within a few post of each other. Prinz, you were involved with my replies!
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    How if a foetus isnt developed enough to be called human it certainly isnt developed enough to be a gender regardless of xy or xx chromosomes
    Are you trolling now? You know know that's not true after a certain term!

    If a foetus has no right to life at a certain term gender is meaningless


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    #744
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    Sharrow wrote: »
    I have, they were in a very bad situation and had no family support were suffering from depression, the father of the child was an abusive arsehole who had to be removed from hospital when he showed up by security after he found out were she had the baby. She wanted to put the child up for adoption but her parents put a lot of pressure on her not to give away thier grandchild but they weren't willing to support her and the baby.

    End the end the child was placed in foster care after she tried to kill herself, she wanted the child with a foster family but her parents and sister wrangled thier way into having the baby and in the end she left the country and left them all behind.

    ok you proved me wrong, there was somebody who wished it...

    but the amount of detail you've gone into there seems to me you are trying to prove the point that if she had an abortion things would have turned out find and dandy for your friend? (i could be mistaken?)


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    #745
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    Seachmall wrote: »
    1. Those who think the fetus has an implied right to life from conception based on certain criteria (Abortions for rape, incest, mother is in danger, etc.)
    probably best describes me, i think common sense should apply to certain situations


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    #746
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Stupify wrote: »
    If you mean because of money constraints then they still are not preventing abortions.

    Abortions cost in the region of £350 so a woman who is strapped for cash wouldn’t be able to afford one even if it was in Ireland.

    The HSE pays for abortions.
    They have sent several women to the UK.

    But it's not just money it's time off work and child care as well.


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    #747
    Greentopia
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭Greentopia


    candy-gal1 wrote: »
    So the responsable thing is to fcuk up your life and maybe even your childs life, if you have it, no matter how much you dont want a child or arent ready for it, but its ok because your being "responsable"?! :pac:

    +1

    Oh but that doesn't matter to some people you see. I notice that very often many anti-abortion "pro-life" campaigners concern for the life of the mother or child stops the very moment the child is born. Then it's "too bad, you made bad choices, live with them".
    Especially if the mother happens to be a single Mum on welfare or living in poverty of course. Then she's a slut who's a burden on society, or a "fornicator" :rolleyes:

    You won't find many of them offering to help contribute to the financial burden of raising these children they so vociferously campaign to save in the womb.


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    #748
    Stupify
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Stupify


    Sharrow wrote: »
    The HSE pays for abortions.
    They have sent several women to the UK.

    But it's not just money it's time off work and child care as well.

    What do you mean by child care?

    And couldn't she have it done on a weekend so as not to take time off work?


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    #749
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Greentopia wrote: »
    You won't find many of them offering to help contribute to the financial burden of raising these children they so vociferously campaign to save in the womb.

    On the other hand there's a queue of pro-choicers looking to sponsor abortions out of their own pockets at the airport I've noticed.


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    #750
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    Stupify wrote: »
    If you mean because of money constraints then they still are not preventing abortions.

    Abortions cost in the region of £350 so a woman who is strapped for cash wouldn’t be able to afford one even if it was in Ireland.

    €350, no they could not afford that, much cheaper to have & raise the child it only costs €300 and they get a wage & house for it


    Or did I go to the Seanie Fitzpatrick school of economics?


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    #751
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    prinz wrote: »
    On the other hand there's a queue of pro-choicers looking to sponsor abortions out of their own pockets at the airport I've noticed.
    Not snide?


This discussion has been closed.
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