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Miss Universe has a little secret...

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    #32
    CreepingDeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭CreepingDeath


    The King of Moo wrote: »
    On the other hand, Miss Universe is a physical beauty contest solely, so if she looks exactly like a woman on the outside, does it really matter if it might (might) be technically argued that she's still a man, and lacking female reproductive organs?

    How far does that extend too ?
    Men disguising themselves as women to compete in the Olympics?

    It's "Miss" Universe for natural born women, not men in disguise.


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    #33
    Immaculate Pasta
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭Immaculate Pasta


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think gay rights are just clutching at straws now to exist.

    Gay rights are gay :cool:


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    #34
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    CreepingDeath wrote: »
    How far does that extend too ?
    Men disguising themselves as women to compete in the Olympics?

    It's "Miss" Universe for natural born women, not men in disguise.

    Well obviously the people whop, ya know, run the Miss Universe competition have a different opininion. Seen as it's their show, so to speak, I'm sure they speak with a tad more authority on what the competition is "for" than some randomer on boards.


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    #35
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    The King of Moo wrote: »
    On the other hand, Miss Universe is a physical beauty contest solely, so if she looks exactly like a woman on the outside, does it really matter if it might (might) be technically argued that she's still a man, and lacking female reproductive organs?

    If I got surgery to look like a giraffe, could I get employed at a petting zoo?



    (I'd make a great giraffe by the way.)


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    #36
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    Einhard wrote: »
    I think that the whole point of having having gender re-asssignment surgery and the like is because one feels that their mind is one gender and their body another, so she was likely never a dude in the mind. If she was, she wouldn't have needed the surgery in the first place.

    maybe he needed a psychiatrist instead of cuttin his bits off?


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    #37
    IM0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    hondasam wrote: »
    Did you see the pictures of Jenna Talackova,the contestant who was disqualified, she is a woman. She has had surgery and while not born a woman she is a woman now.

    her* face looks fairly female but the body in those pics looks like a malnurished man with tits. then again so do lots of female models




    *heh..


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    #38
    Paulie Gualtieri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 420 ✭✭Paulie Gualtieri


    wonder if paddy power will take bets on spot the ball carriers ?


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    #39
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    CreepingDeath wrote: »
    How far does that extend too ?
    Men disguising themselves as women to compete in the Olympics?

    It's "Miss" Universe for natural born women, not men in disguise.

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=transgender%20competing%20in%20oolympics&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDgQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.csmfoundation.org%2FTranssexual_Bodies_at_the_Olympics.pdf&ei=r0SET_6VBIO2hQej5p29CA&usg=AFQjCNGObwCkvrKPtYevTkW8mhWOeDY8bw

    TBF they are not men in disguise, it's a bit more than a man wearing a dress.


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    #40
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    davet82 wrote: »
    maybe he needed a psychiatrist instead of cuttin his bits off?

    Well, as far as I know, it's not a mental problem. People really are born in the wrong bodies so to speak. They are women but are trapped in a man's body or vice versa. It must be a terrible thing to have to endure, and if someone, with the help of medical advice and consultation, decides that the best way to deal with it is to have their physical presence re-shaped to fit their mental make up, then I don't see a problem with that. If it makes someone happy, and eases their suffering, why would I?

    Also, considering the massive complexity of the human mind, I think it far safer to change the body to suit the mind, rather than going down the route of attempting to re-wire someone psychologically in order to match their body. That's a hugely complex and dangerous area to be tinkering with.


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    #41
    CreepingDeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭CreepingDeath


    Einhard wrote: »
    Well obviously the people whop, ya know, run the Miss Universe competition have a different opininion. Seen as it's their show,...

    Of course they do, but they want to increase their ratings, get more viewers.
    hondasam wrote: »
    TBF they are not men in disguise, it's a bit more than a man wearing a dress.

    Only in their heads.
    Surgery and hormones completes the drag act costume.


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    #42
    Mickey Dazzler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 586 ✭✭✭Mickey Dazzler


    I'd still horse the arse off her/him. Slut


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    #43
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,975 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    hondasam wrote: »
    Did you see the pictures of Jenna Talackova,the contestant who was disqualified, she is a woman. She has had surgery and while not born a woman she is a woman now.

    The name should have been changed to Tackle-ova after the op.


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    #44
    The King of Moo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    Seachmall wrote: »
    If I got surgery to look like a giraffe, could I get employed at a petting zoo?



    (I'd make a great giraffe by the way.)

    Well, if you looked and acted exactly like a giraffe, then why not? I don't think the kiddywinks would be too bothered by your lack of giraffe organs.
    CreepingDeath wrote: »
    How far does that extend too ?
    Men disguising themselves as women to compete in the Olympics?

    It's "Miss" Universe for natural born women, not men in disguise.

    If men who underwent transgender operations to become women retained superior strength and size (obviously not all men are bigger and stronger than women, but it's generally true) then that would be unfair.
    If they lost these advantages, then it would probably be fine.

    But I think overall it would be unfair to allow them to compete, as I'm pretty sure that the fact that the hormones injected as part of a procedure are determined by a doctor, and not by luck/genetic make up, would disallow transgendered athletes from major athletics events. Even though I'm sure they'd be given a "standard" amount of oestrogen etc which probably wouldn't give them any real advantage, the fact that they aren't competing with what they were born with would probably, and understandably, disqualify them.
    I might be wrong on this though, other people would know more about it.

    I don't see the problem with a transgendered Miss Universe contestant: it's not like they have much of an advantage.


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    #45
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    CreepingDeath wrote: »

    Only in their heads.

    Thanks for conceding the point. Where else but in the head would one conceive of one's gender?

    I have to say that the limited understanding that some people in this thread have of sexuality is pretty shocking. Our minds are far more important that our physical forms in determining gender.


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    #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sure the transgenders have been allowed in the Rose of Tralee with years.


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    #47
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    CreepingDeath wrote: »
    It's "Miss" Universe for natural born women, not men in disguise.

    Yeah, how dare they violate the sanctity of the miss universe contest.


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    #48
    Immaculate Pasta
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭Immaculate Pasta


    RoverJames wrote: »
    Sure the transgenders have been allowed in the Rose of Tralee with years.

    Careful now.


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    #49
    Stiffler2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭Stiffler2


    Sigh - the world is a sick place.

    I mean I'd love a set of wibbly wobbly wonders but you don't see me going out and getting a titty operation


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    #50
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Stiffler2 wrote: »
    Sigh - the world is a sick place.

    I mean I'd love a set of wibbly wobbly wonders but you don't see me going out and getting a titty operation

    I couldn't afford an operation so I just got fat.

    Moobs are great, they give me something to do in the shower.



    And a related joke,

    How do you make 5lbs of fat sexy?
    Put a nipple on it.


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    #51
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    Einhard wrote: »
    Also, considering the massive complexity of the human mind, I think it far safer to change the body to suit the mind, rather than going down the route of attempting to re-wire someone psychologically in order to match their body. That's a hugely complex and dangerous area to be tinkering with.

    Well take Michael Jackson, was he a white man trapped in a black mans body apparently, point is how do you know who is genuine and who is just crazy?


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    #52
    Gummy Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,920 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    I don't see the big deal. These women would be fighting against the odds to win anyway.

    Good luck to them


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    #53
    The King of Moo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    davet82 wrote: »
    Well take Michael Jackson, was he a white man trapped in a black mans body apparently, point is how do you know who is genuine and who is just crazy?

    Does it matter?

    It's their bodies; it's their choice.


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    #54
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    This is going to be like a more expensive version of an episode of Maury.


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    #55
    jaja321
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭jaja321


    davet82 wrote: »
    Well take Michael Jackson, was he a white man trapped in a black mans body apparently, point is how do you know who is genuine and who is just crazy?

    Who cares? How does it affect you? If it's what someone wants then that's their choice. It's not for anyone else to decide.


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    #56
    Paulie Gualtieri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 420 ✭✭Paulie Gualtieri


    great bunch of lads , oh no wait....


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    #57
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    The King of Moo wrote: »
    Does it matter?

    It's their bodies; it's their choice.

    yes it does because i fear the unknown and want to react violently to it


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    #58
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    CreepingDeath wrote: »



    Only in their heads.
    Surgery and hormones completes the drag act costume.

    you should probably read up on transgender and what it actually means, its not just guys or girls who change sex for the laugh, its basically a man or woman being born in the wrong body, and have to go through a lot to change that.


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    #59
    CreepingDeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭CreepingDeath


    Einhard wrote: »
    Thanks for conceding the point. Where else but in the head would one conceive of one's gender?

    Perception and reality are different.

    Michael Jackson thought he was white and disguised himself to match his warped self image... doesn't mean he was going to get accepted into the Klu Klux Klan.
    Einhard wrote: »
    Our minds are far more important that our physical forms in determining gender.

    Says who?
    Gender is based on the XX/XY chromosomes, and more simplistically whether they have male/female genitalia.


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    #60
    Stiffler2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭Stiffler2


    Seachmall wrote: »
    I couldn't afford an operation so I just got fat.

    Moobs are great, they give me something to do in the shower.



    And a related joke,

    How do you make 5lbs of fat sexy?
    Put a nipple on it.


    You keep telling yerself that ! :rolleyes:


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    #61
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    CreepingDeath wrote: »

    Says who?
    Gender is based on the XX/XY chromosomes, and more simplistically whether they have male/female genitalia.

    doctors who know more than you?


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