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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

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    #692
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    paddy147 wrote: »
    Funny then my bill states that no information shall be shared/passed over to anyone else or used for anything else,other than for the purposes of the utility bill iteslf.

    Thats my lecy bill.

    Now I wonder if there could be a case against the utility supplier for breech of rules and contract??

    The data protection commissioner doesn't think so. And your info (name, ownership status, address) are already on the register of deeds in any case - utility databases are just belt and braces.


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    #693
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    That wasn't my question, but then again DV you don't answer questions, do you?
    You asked if it was appropriate for him to go to court and I made it clear that it was, if he is in the right.
    You want him to pay bills that he disputes to avoid some kind of non existent embarrassment. I hope he has more backbone than that.


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    #694
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    Co. Dublin, Ireland. Government to introduce new measures to deal with dissensters

    Dublin, Ireland: In what was a worrying development in the latest debacle in the Household Charge saga, it was announced today that the government are to take new and more extreme measures to deal with those who have not paid the household charge. Announcing on the steps of Leinster House in a defiant speech, beside a beguiling Phil Hogan, Kenny has announced that realistically, that fines and putting people through the courts will be too tiring and so have announced the setting up of a secret taskforce, a secret police force all but in name, the HSS ( Household Secret Service, not to be confused by the HSS ferry of the same accroynm.)

    Addressing the reporters defiantly, he said " We're tired of all these protesters trying to exert their view and not paying our household charge.. we really aren't bothered with the courts, so we're going to face these people down in a more direct manner. Hogan, or Big Phil is reported to have said " "Much like before, we will send people to people's door, most likely recently escaped ex-cons from the open prisons that yous keep on hearing about on the news, because they said they would do on the cheap and they will exert brute force and beat people to a pulp, so to speak, until we get payment. So, if you don't want our lads to come a knockin', then pay up, plain and simple. They'll be wearing uniforms and all though, so you'll know its us, we're looking at designs at the moment, might go with the blueshirts, with all the history, excxept we'll make them boyos look like angels in comparision.

    When asked if this was not extreme, he chuckled " Not at all, my father gave me a good beating when I was a boy, it did me no harm. If they don't pay outright, they'll get their beating and then they will pay, and if they don't, our boyos will be back fairly soon, so they'll get the jist of it fairly soon.

    Questioned as to whether his plan was not reminiscent of the secret police force SS, Hogan surly replied " I should hope so, Angela has been giving us advice on the matter, and fully endorses our direct manner.

    He then remarked " Of course, the eldery who don't pay up will be dealt with too. We'll just intimidate them a little bit, until they pay up, bricks through windows in the middle of the night, kidnap their cats,that kind of thing. We will tak

    He finished his address to the people, saying "The beatings will continue until morale improves"

    Ends


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    #695
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    alastair wrote: »
    One more time eh?

    I pay PAYE as a self employed citizen.

    I am not invoiced for that tax.

    If I don't pay on time, I get a reminder. I then get the nasty estimate - which is not a prior invoice - just as you'll get a nasty demand after non-payment with regard to the household charge.

    No difference.

    Your details as a homeowner are available for any posted late payment demands from a simple database merge.

    This has nothing to so with the household charge. If I get an invoice or not I'm still not paying. If we deleted half all the irrelevant crap in the thread it would not have needed a second thread.


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    #696
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Biggins wrote: »
    Your unhappy with your service?
    You should follow Phils example and not pay it! :pac:

    I have.
    I'm not happy with the services provided by fingal county council so I'm not paying this household charge.
    After all, if one is not happy with the service provided, then by phil's logic it's ok not to pay.

    Sound!


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    #697
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    alastair wrote: »
    One more time eh?

    I pay PAYE as a self employed citizen.

    I am not invoiced for that tax.

    If I don't pay on time, I get a reminder. I then get the nasty estimate - which is not a prior invoice - just as you'll get a nasty demand after non-payment with regard to the household charge.

    No difference.

    Your details as a homeowner are available for any posted late payment demands from a simple database merge.

    I see lots of court cases hapening with regards the charge,extra fines and lack of invoicing from the goverment.



    Sure I never even got my information leaflet dropped in the door telling me all the information on the household charge.

    Now if the goverment cant even get that right,what hope in hell do they have of getting anywhere else with it??



    But Im sure you will do your best to reply and defend Enda and big Phil.....again.


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    #698
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Biggins wrote: »
    I retracted one incorrect word - not the fact that he himself, is refusing to pay for same services possibly as he's expecting the rest of his own country people to pay - without even disputing or disputing, but still expected to pay!

    Double standards by any means - despite words used later!
    You never did explain why you described it as a tax when it clearly was not?


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    #699
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    alastair wrote: »
    The collation of database information to ensure every homeowner is taxed.

    Rubbish and you know it. We need to register to get an up to date accurate database. It would be very time consuming to get the information from other providers.


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    #700
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    hondasam wrote: »
    This has nothing to so with the household charge. If I get an invoice or not I'm still not paying. If we deleted half all the irrelevant crap in the thread it would not have needed a second thread.

    The point, after all the red herrings, is that taxation doesn't require prior invoicing. End of story.


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    #701
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    dvpower wrote: »
    You asked if it was appropriate for him to go to court and I made it clear that it was, if he is in the right.
    You want him to pay bills that he disputes to avoid some kind of non existent embarrassment. I hope he has more backbone than that.

    I dispute the discriminatory household charge!
    I'm not paying.
    Must be my strong backbone!


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    #702
    Sionach
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭Sionach


    alastair wrote: »
    hondasam wrote: »
    You are the one that brought it up, what was your point?

    paye is deducted at source, self employed are invoiced. Where revenue is concerned we all gave out details to them.

    One more time eh?

    I pay PAYE as a self employed citizen.

    I am not invoiced for that tax.

    If I don't pay on time, I get a reminder. I then get the nasty estimate - which is not a prior invoice - just as you'll get a nasty demand after non-payment with regard to the household charge.

    No difference.

    Your details as a homeowner are available for any posted late payment demands from a simple database merge.
    You only pay paye as a self employed person if you employ people.
    The paye is for the person employee not the employer
    From revenue.ie.
    So which are you?


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    #703
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    alastair wrote: »
    The point, after all the red herrings, is that taxation doesn't require prior invoicing. End of story.

    The point, it has nothing to do with the household charge. We all knew that anyway so we have not learned anything new today and I like to learn something new everyday.


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    #704
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    alastair wrote: »
    The point, after all the red herrings, is that taxation doesn't require prior invoicing. End of story.

    Once again, I thought it wasn't a tax?


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    #705
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    hondasam wrote: »
    Rubbish and you know it. We need to register to get an up to date accurate database. It would be very time consuming to get the information from other providers.

    Not rubbish at all. It's a simple enough database merge job - you've done those yourself I'm sure. The contract for the task was up on etenders recently.

    What's changed in terms of the register of deeds since you bought your gaff? The gaff hasn't moved. You haven't changed your name. You haven't transferred ownership (or the deed would be re-registered).


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    #706
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Once again, I thought it wasn't a tax?

    You thought wrong.


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    #707
    jimmynokia
    Registered Users Posts: 6,467 ✭✭✭jimmynokia


    hondasam wrote: »
    We all know it's not that simple because if it was they would have done that in the first place. There is data protection laws you know.

    Yeah the ones they are going to change so they can catch people thats not right


  • Options
    #708
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    paddy147 wrote: »
    I see lots of court cases hapening with regards the charge,extra fines and lack of invoicing from the goverment.



    Sure I never even got my information leaflet dropped in the door telling me all the information on the household charge.

    Now if the goverment cant even get that right,what hope in hell do they have of getting anywhere else with it??



    But Im sure you will do your best to reply and defend Enda and big Phil.....again.

    Ignorance of the law is not a legal defence. Plus you do know about your obligation to pay - so why lie?


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    #709
    Sionach
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭Sionach


    alastair wrote: »
    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Once again, I thought it wasn't a tax?

    You thought wrong.
    You though right it's a charge.


  • Options
    #710
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Sionach wrote: »
    You only pay paye as a self employed person if you employ people.
    The paye is for the person employee not the employer
    From revenue.ie.
    So which are you?

    I'm my own employee - within a limited company.


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    #711
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    alastair wrote: »
    You thought wrong.

    Your mate DV reckons it's not a tax.
    It's not called a tax.
    They won't call it a tax because it can be challenged through the courts if they do.
    Property rights and all that...


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    #712
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    alastair wrote: »
    Not rubbish at all. It's a simple enough database merge job - you've done those yourself I'm sure. The contract for the task was up on etenders recently.

    What's changed in terms of the register of deeds since you bought your gaff? The gaff hasn't moved. You haven't changed your name. You haven't transferred ownership (or the deed would be re-registered).

    When I built my house I needed planning permission from my local county council, the same council who now need me to register my septic tank. Have they not got the details there, well of course they have on paper but not on a database, you know how long it would take for then to manually go through every application that is say ten years old.
    There is no database that is reliable.


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    #713
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    I dispute the discriminatory household charge!
    I'm not paying.
    Must be my strong backbone!
    If this 'Dont Register, Don't Pay' campaign had backbone, they would rename it to 'Do Register, Don't Pay' and actually put it up to the government.
    As it is, the anti charge people, for the most part, aren't standing up; they are hiding away.


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    #714
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Sionach wrote: »
    You though right it's a charge.

    Just like the poll tax was.


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    #715
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Your mate DV reckons it's not a tax.
    It's not called a tax.
    They won't call it a tax because it can be challenged through the courts if they do.
    Property rights and all that...
    What the hell are you on about now?:confused:


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    #716
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Your mate DV reckons it's not a tax.
    It's not called a tax.
    They won't call it a tax because it can be challenged through the courts if they do.
    Property rights and all that...

    :rolleyes: Okaay.


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    #717
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    alastair wrote: »
    I'm my own employee - within a limited company.

    It's a handy set up that isn't it.
    All the benefits and being able to fold the company if it goes 'tits up'.
    Always keep one step away from your creditors.


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    #718
    D_murph
    Registered Users Posts: 773 ✭✭✭D_murph


    alastair wrote: »
    I'm my own employee - within a limited company.

    Things must be quiet at your business considering how much time you spend on here :pac:.


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    #719
    Sionach
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭Sionach


    alastair wrote: »
    Sionach wrote: »
    You though right it's a charge.

    Just like the poll tax was.
    Once again the clue is in the name.


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    #720
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    dvpower wrote: »
    If this 'Dont Register, Don't Pay' campaign had backbone, they would rename it to 'Do Register, Don't Pay' and actually put it up to the government.
    As it is, the anti charge people, for the most part, aren't standing up; they are hiding away.

    More deflection.


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    #721
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    jimmynokia wrote: »
    Yeah the ones they are going to change so they can catch people thats not right

    Take the ESB for example, we all get bills but it does not say who owns the house, same with eircom. They need to confirm who owns the property and the best way to do this is for people to register their details.


This discussion has been closed.
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