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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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    #8912
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Big AK1 wrote: »
    ...The world is watching Ireland, and between this household charge & and the upcoming referendum; we have a chance to show the world that the fightin' Irish are just that; we will not just lay down and accept that we as a nation are willing to pay off the gambling debts of the already uber-wealthy. We are ready to be grown up as a nation, and pay our way in the world, and work our way out of debt (our own, not corrupt bankers), getting rid of the Me Fein attitude of the past, and creating proper social changes, but done on our terms. And the only way the world will start to see this, is if we make a stand... and now is our time to do so!

    AK

    Great total post and cheers for signing up.
    The Irish people generally over the last few years have been too complacent and have accepted too much, too easily.
    Good to see more people, young and old taking more of a loud and visible stance!


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    #8913
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    black francis wrote: »
    RTE reporting around 30% have paid by yesterday evening and still 3days to go!

    It seems pragmatism had trumped attempts by the loony left to stir up anger and confusion.

    RTE have a tendency to confuse Registered with Paid,wouldn't believe a word they say about the figures.


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    #8914
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    dvpower wrote: »
    The head of the LGMA this morning on Newstalk confirmed that people 'living over the shop' are liable for the charge.

    What a surprise.


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    #8915
    andrewdeerpark
    Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭andrewdeerpark


    Is the whole protest against the household charge an attempt to give the government a black eye or does the “Looney left” have an issue with the principal of taxing property assets. If so then they need to revise their Karl Marx books fairly promptly.

    Surely equitable taxation of property assets should be a pillar of left wing policies like in other countries? I just do not understand the left wing objection to the charge.

    Where do they (Joe Higgins, Richard Boyd Barrett, Ming, Seamus Healy, Shinners) stand on the principal of taxing property on an equitable basis? Surely a property tax is better than more PAYE and also discourages asset hoarding that happened during the celtic tiger days

    And yes I accept the 100euro is not equitable however we have been assured that it will be sorted by next year.


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    #8916
    tin79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭tin79


    black francis wrote: »
    RTE reporting around 30% have paid by yesterday evening and still 3days to go!

    It seems pragmatism had trumped attempts by the loony left to stir up anger and confusion.

    LOL, 95% of the time given to pay has passed and you are considering 30% total registration to be a success?

    Great sucess that, Aim low must be your mantra. Personally i would consider that number fo be very low. You really are just starting to look like a troll now.


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    #8917
    xflyer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭xflyer


    I've no interest in the loony left, Higgins and his cabal of Trotskyites can go to hell. I'm not paying because right now it's the best way of telling the government that I'm fed up with their handling of this situation. I also cannot stand the scaremongering tactics and straightforward lies they're telling to try and get people to register.

    It's time these people realised who elected them and whose interests they should be taking care of and it's not the bankers or the German government, I'm talking about.

    I suspect even the people who have registered and paid under duress will make sure these clowns pay for it in the next election. I suspect the Labour party will follow FF into history if they dont cop on soon!


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    #8918
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    tin79 wrote: »
    LOL, 95% of the time given to pay has passed and you are considering 30% total registration to be a success?

    Great sucess that, Aim low must be your mantra. Personally i would consider that number fo be very low. You really are just starting to look like a troll now.

    I can't get the image of blackfrancis & dvpower high-fiving each other as the figures were being read out on RTE.

    "30% YIPPEEE!! HIGH FIVE DUDE!!! This tax is a roaring success,break out the champers"


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    #8919
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    andrewdeerpark wrote: »
    ...however we have been assured that it will be sorted by next year.

    Do you seriously believe most things our current lot has told you?

    Good god - tell me your not that uninformed as to already how many things they have said they will do or even promised - and have done absolute nothing or even reversed!


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    #8920
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    zerks wrote: »
    I can't get the image of blackfrancis & dvpower high-fiving each other as the figures were being read out on RTE.

    "30% YIPPEEE!! HIGH FIVE DUDE!!! This tax is a roaring success,break out the champers"


    We eat a couple of babies first though.


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    #8921
    psychward
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    andrewdeerpark wrote: »
    Is the whole protest against the household charge an attempt to give the government a black eye or does the “Looney left” have an issue with the principal of taxing property assets. If so then they need to revise their Karl Marx books fairly promptly.

    Surely equitable taxation of property assets should be a pillar of left wing policies like in other countries? I just do not understand the left wing objection to the charge.

    Where do they (Joe Higgins, Richard Boyd Barrett, Ming, Seamus Healy, Shinners) stand on the principal of taxing property on an equitable basis? Surely a property tax is better than more PAYE and also discourages asset hoarding that happened during the celtic tiger days

    And yes I accept the 100euro is not equitable however we have been assured that it will be sorted by next year.

    As a non politicized citizen I don't give a fupp about ideologys left or right and
    I resent the stirring up of hatred some people have for SF and childish namecalling such as ''loony left'' as an argument against the overwhelming number of people who have not paid who are the majority. People against this charge only need to have their opposition to the charge in common with one another. Apart from this opposition they can disagree about the color of the sky or time of day for all we care.

    Then while bringing out your ''stick'' of namecalling you also try to bring out the carrot that this is about taxing ''wealth.'' How is taxing someones negative equity and millstone debts the same as taxing wealth ? (even ignoring the fact that they already paid big big taxes on this already).


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    #8922
    andrewdeerpark
    Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭andrewdeerpark


    All

    I have no time for bankers either and you are right on the government in general. They have broken all their promises plus look today they quashed the planning probes: http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ryan-accuses-arrogant-govt-over-planning-probes-545351.html

    because their councillors would be implicated probably more than FF, as FG / Labour has a majority on most council’s in this period, however no one picks up on this event. They have sneaked this in under the household charge anger.

    I think this 100euro household charge is a distraction that is wasting people’s anger in the wrong direction. Good tactics by a clever corrupt government though…..


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    #8923
    andrewdeerpark
    Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭andrewdeerpark


    psychward wrote: »
    As a non politicized citizen I don't give a fupp about ideologys left or right and
    I resent the stirring up of hatred some people have for SF and childish namecalling such as ''loony left'' as an argument against the overwhelming number of people who have not paid who are the majority. People against this charge only need to have their opposition to the charge in common with one another. Apart from this opposition they can disagree about the color of the sky or time of day for all we care.

    Then while bringing out your ''stick'' of namecalling you also try to bring out the carrot that this is about taxing ''wealth.'' How is taxing someones negative equity and millstone debts the same as taxing wealth ? (even ignoring the fact that they already paid big big taxes on this already).

    Do you agree or not with the PRINCIPLE of taxation on property assets?


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    #8924
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    andrewdeerpark wrote: »
    ...They have broken all their promises plus look today they quashed the planning probes: http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ryan-accuses-arrogant-govt-over-planning-probes-545351.html because their councillors would be implicated probably more than FF, as FG / Labour has a majority on most council’s in this period, however no one picks up on this event. They have sneaked this in under the household charge anger.

    I think this 100euro household charge is a distraction that is wasting people’s anger in the wrong direction. Good tactics by a clever corrupt government though…..

    Picked up on it some time ago as did a few in the politics section I think.
    The journal.ie also mentioned it a few times including this morning.

    It does indeed seem FG and Labour by the quiet cancelling of further investigations, have their own crap to hide at local levels.
    They don't wish to be exposed and/or further public anger at their activities at the moment or in the future!


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    #8925
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    andrewdeerpark wrote: »

    Surely equitable taxation of property assets should be a pillar of left wing policies like in other countries? I just do not understand the left wing objection to the charge.

    I think most people are mainly against the taxing of the family home (or primary residence). I still have yet to receive one decent explanation as to how a home can be defined as a taxable asset? It does not generate any income for the inhabitants and only becomes a taxable quantity when sold (CGT). To me, this is one of the main reasons why people are against this charge. People view it as paying the government for the privilige of living in their own homes.

    An other poster made the point on this thread that they do not see why the family home should be exempt from a property tax. Fair enough but there are just as many valid arguments as to why it shouldn't be taxed either.


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    #8926
    psychward
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    andrewdeerpark wrote: »
    Do you agree or not with the PRINCIPLE of taxation on property assets?

    I agree with a principled taxation system. And a principled government. We have neither and I don't think we ever had one.


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    #8927
    andrewdeerpark
    Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭andrewdeerpark


    As we all do.

    Still not answering my question though?


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    #8928
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    andrewdeerpark wrote: »
    As we all do.

    Still not answering my question though?

    Not if its the family home.


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    #8929
    joolsveer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭joolsveer


    I received a Final Reminder for the Household Charge in the post this morning. I have a receipt in my email account showing I paid the charge on 9 January 2012. What should I do?


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    #8930
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    joolsveer wrote: »
    I received a Final Reminder for the Household Charge in the post this morning. I have a receipt in my email account showing I paid the charge on 9 January 2012. What should I do?


    Nothing. They probably have sent out those notices to everyone. they don't seem to be too organised.


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    #8931
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    joolsveer wrote: »
    I received a Final Reminder for the Household Charge in the post this morning. I have a receipt in my email account showing I paid the charge on 9 January 2012. What should I do?

    Nothing, they dont know who they are sending them leaflets to. Everyone gets them regadless if exempt or paid or not paid.


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    #8932
    Sizzler
    Registered Users Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭Sizzler


    joolsveer wrote: »
    I received a Final Reminder for the Household Charge in the post this morning. I have a receipt in my email account showing I paid the charge on 9 January 2012. What should I do?

    PMSL!

    The money you paid has gone towards a €250k random leaflet campaign to needlessly send "reminders" to everybody to bully you into paying.

    Doesnt it give you a warm fuzzy feeling inside to know your money has been wasted :D


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    #8933
    psychward
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    andrewdeerpark wrote: »
    As we all do.

    Still not answering my question though?

    Principle cannot exist alone outside of whats practical. Despots and ideologues made that mistake all throughout history. You have to take reality into account. You are asking me if I agree with the taxation of assets when the Household charge and most likely it's successors is a tax on liabilities as well as assets which also does not take ability to pay into account. If someone is worth more dead than alive how can one feel anything but shame at applying a tax on that person just to keep a roof over their head, punishing them for their years of hard work and thrift ?


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    #8934
    Sizzler
    Registered Users Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭Sizzler


    phil1nj wrote: »
    I think most people are mainly against the taxing of the family home (or primary residence). I still have yet to receive one decent explanation as to how a home can be defined as a taxable asset? It does not generate any income for the inhabitants and only becomes a taxable quantity when sold (CGT). To me, this is one of the main reasons why people are against this charge. People view it as paying the government for the privilige of living in their own homes.

    Add another point to that - Homeowners are being asked to fund publicly available services....are homeowners the ONLY people who use the local roads....parks...swimming pools ...libraries etc?

    If they are then does that mean any tourist or someone renting is by default barred from using these services / amenities as they havent paid for them?


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    #8935
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    joolsveer wrote: »
    I received a Final Reminder for the Household Charge in the post this morning. I have a receipt in my email account showing I paid the charge on 9 January 2012. What should I do?

    Just ignore it because you've already paid.

    It's rather obvious that it's a scattergun leafleting what with it not having either your name or address on it :rolleyes:


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    #8936
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    It's rather obvious that it's a scattergun leafleting what with it not having either your name or address on it :rolleyes:

    Big Phil is obviously a massive Red Dwarf fan (see video below between 1min 45s and 2min 30s):D

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WgUktfdDy4


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    #8937
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    phil1nj wrote: »
    It does if it all comes out of the same pot ? Just like balancing a household budget you can either increase your income to fund your day-to-day bills (take in more taxes) or you can cut back on expenditure (junkets, expenses, iphones for LA workers etc). The household charge represents the first option but for some reason the expenditure part just doesn't seem to be under review.
    The post I replied to advised people not to pay this charge “Unless you want the wastage to continue.......” The implication being that if we leave things as they are, the wastage won’t continue!!!!

    The question of wastage is irrelevant to how the revenue is raised. Are you suggesting that you cannot ascertain what does or does not constitute wasteful spending or bad value for money, unless you know how the wasted money was raised?

    Nonsense of course. You determine waste by looking at the destination of public monies, not the source. If there is an argument to reign in wasteful public spending then that argument is just as compelling even if we do not adopt the house hold charge. Red herring.


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    #8938
    xflyer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭xflyer


    joolsveer wrote: »
    I received a Final Reminder for the Household Charge in the post this morning. I have a receipt in my email account showing I paid the charge on 9 January 2012. What should I do?
    The only people getting final reminders are those who registered. More fool you. They haven't a clue who owes what or where they live. That's why they want you to register.


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    #8939
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Don't you know, we're talking about a revolution.

    Grand day for it.


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    #8940
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    xflyer wrote: »
    The only people getting final reminders are those who registered.
    Nonsense. More scaremongering.


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    #8941
    Philm_12
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Philm_12


    andrewdeerpark wrote: »
    Do you agree or not with the PRINCIPLE of taxation on property assets?

    Don't know about you but I am sick of hearing that we are one of the only EU states to have no property tax. I will consider that argument when our TOTAL tax burden (including indirect taxes) is quoted in comparison to other EU states.

    Incidentally, we are probably the only EU state to utilise US road signs - not the EU "standard" road signs that one will encounter in every other member state to the best of my knowledge.
    So if we can be different from the others on that major issue - why not be different on taxation?


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