Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Buford Tannen · 26-03-2012 9:23pm

laugh wrote: »

So what exactly is my paye tax used for?

The 250 million PS increments for this year,90 more than this tax

http://http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0119/1224310448219.html

dvpower · 26-03-2012 9:24pm

Slick50 wrote: »

And what money would that be? they certainly weren't giving us money to run local authorities.

They didn't?

max 73 · 26-03-2012 9:25pm

The government through all this bailout malarkey when spouting on about billions & billions kept saying when certain items had to be paid (pensions/large salaries/etc) and other items....they said a couple of hundred didn't really matter in the grand scheme of things yet YET this 160million IS somehow going to alleviate this

Bullseye1 · 26-03-2012 9:26pm

Buford Tannen wrote: »

The 250 million PS increments for this year,90 more than this tax

http://http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0119/1224310448219.html

What recession? How can people not see the way permanent government and public sector unions are killing any chance at recovery. And we want to give them €160 million.

dvpower · 26-03-2012 9:28pm

Buford Tannen wrote: »

The 250 million PS increments for this year,90 more than this tax

I haven't heard the leadership of the 'Don't register, don't pay' campaign calling for PS increments to be scrapped. In fact, the only thing that all elements of the campaign have in common is a reluctance to pay tax.

eth0 · 26-03-2012 9:30pm

dvpower wrote: »

I haven't heard the leadership of the 'Don't register, don't pay' campaign calling for PS increments to be scrapped. In fact, the only thing that all elements of the campaign have in common is a reluctance to pay tax.

I'll have to get on to them.

Slick50 · 26-03-2012 9:30pm

prinz wrote: »

http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/economy/taxes.htm

That's brilliant, did you show this to big Phil.... I'd bet he's shown Enda.

"Taxes have been around for a long time. They are the main way people pay for their government. Or, to look at it another way, taxes are the main way that some powerful men and women force less powerful people to give them stuff. Taxation is when some powerful person or group decides that all the people should pay some amount of stuff, or money, to the government, and uses the army or police to collect from people who do not pay. One way of taxing people is called a head tax, or a poll tax (from the Latin word for head). The government says every person has to pay a certain amount, the same for everyone. Sometimes women or children pay less than men do (why would that be?). Sometimes you have to pay for your sheep or cows by the head too. This makes it easy to see how much somebody should pay. Rich people pay the same as poor ones. But it is harder for poor people to pay it."

Buford Tannen · 26-03-2012 9:30pm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

What recession? How can people not see the way permanent government and public sector unions are killing any chance at recovery. And we want to give them €160 million.

It gets even better have a look at this

http://http://www.independent.ie/national-news/topheavy-fire-service-costing-vital-frontline-2628344.html

steve9859 · 26-03-2012 9:31pm

lugha wrote: »

steve9859 wrote: »

I agree with almost all of that. And we need to tax a home and impose water charges, to balance the books, just like everyone else. But in the rest of Europe taxes are based on residence, not ownership. Much fairer if you buy the premise that the tax is to fund local services. I would not dispute a UK style 'council tax' but I do have issued with a property tax

But why the need to make the specific link to local services. We have total spending which needs to be matched by total income (and a lot more for a good few years). Where is the rational in ring fencing any monies collected?

And in any case there will be resistance to any such charge no matter how it is structured. "It's my house FFS, this is a free country" as somebody puts it above. :pac:

steve9859 wrote: »

What FG is actually doing is akin to a wealth tax, but they've missed the fundamental point that property ownership and wealth are no longer one and the same like they were a generation ago

I can quite see how, in its current form, it can be described as a wealth tax, given that it is a flat rate of €100?

They already said this is stage 1 before increasing it, likely in valuation bands. Have you not been paying attention? That isn't just boardsie ranting....it is stated policy

Frank Black · 26-03-2012 9:32pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

Yea, loans have to be paid back by screwing everyone for every type of unjust and unfair tax that can be thought of.

Well done Gerry, there's hope for you yet, have a biscuit.

squod · 26-03-2012 9:33pm

dvpower wrote: »

You asked for some back up for a statement that the tax is going to local government services and when pointed to the legislation, this is your response.

I don't know why you bother asking when you were never going to listen to any answer that doesn't match your own predujice.

It's hardly a prejudice. I'm stating the obvious. You're getting/going to get fuhk all for your money.

Betcha I've done more listening than you have.

Buford Tannen · 26-03-2012 9:34pm

dvpower wrote: »

I haven't heard the leadership of the 'Don't register, don't pay' campaign calling for PS increments to be scrapped. In fact, the only thing that all elements of the campaign have in common is a reluctance to pay tax.

I haven't heard the leadership of the "Don't register,Don't pay campaign at all and i'm still not paying this household charge!

lugha · 26-03-2012 9:37pm

eth0 wrote: »

So lets just take an arbitrary amount from anyone who isn't out on the street or in a caravan yet, regardless of what kind of 'aul budget problem those people might be having? As long as the government gets its money, worry about everyone else later or not at all.

No but the no side could desist from recycling this notion that the government are some of pirates skelping the hapless for every cent they can get to add to their personal fortunes, as you might believe reading some contributions here.

And if they taxpayer cannot collectively afford €160 M by this direct method how will they afford it if they have to pay it indirectly through new cuts and taxes?

Slick50 · 26-03-2012 9:39pm

dvpower wrote: »

They didn't?

That hardly qualifies as funding the running of our LA's? Though maybe in your mind.

EU Funding Programmes (2007-2013)This presentation reflects the second session in a series of workshops for local authorities on 'EU Community Programmes and Transnational Projects' delivered by the Irish Regions Office, Brussels in Dublin, Clonmel, Athlone and Ennis during October 2009.

Ghandee · 26-03-2012 9:41pm

Anyone wrote: »

Who cleans the streets,

Well, Where I live, the local tidy town volunteers a group of (mostly) elderly men and women, I guess retiree's who take a pride in our village, (cos Lord knows the council dont seem to:rolleyes:) a few times a year a mass gathering of villagers gather though, and all chip in (myself included) all funds raised locally by ourselves.

Anyone wrote: »

who tidys the parks,

See above answer^^^

Anyone wrote: »

who cleans the water,

Beats me, but whom ever does it, does a crap job, the water has been deemed unsafe to drink with recommendations to boil it first has been given out on numerous occasions.

Anyone wrote: »

who repairs the roads,

Come around these partrs some day, and answer this one for me please, as I'm curious too.... Make sure your in a 4x4 though, cos we got pot holes here that would put places in Mongolia to shame:rolleyes:

Anyone wrote: »

who repairs drains,

Ah, I know the answer to this one! The council! Only seen them do it once though, after the severe floods last Oct, never seen them do it before, nor since though.

Anyone wrote: »

I can go on and on and on.

Oh please do buddy, please do!

Slick50 · 26-03-2012 9:41pm

dvpower wrote: »

I haven't heard the leadership of the 'Don't register, don't pay' campaign calling for PS increments to be scrapped. In fact, the only thing that all elements of the campaign have in common is a reluctance to pay tax.

This tax.

dvpower · 26-03-2012 9:43pm

Slick50 wrote: »

That's brilliant, did you show this to big Phil.... I'd bet he's shown Enda.

You clicked on the History For Kids link? Bravo.
(I thought you were asking a rhetorical question and prinz was taking the piss out of you, but it is good to see that at least someone gaining an education out of this thread.)

constitutionus · 26-03-2012 9:44pm

lugha wrote: »

No but the no side could desist from recycling this notion that the government are some of pirates skelping the hapless for every cent they can get to add to their personal fortunes, as you might believe reading some contributions here.

And if they taxpayer cannot collectively afford €160 M by this direct method how will they afford it if they have to pay it indirectly through new cuts and taxes?

well what do you think enda kenny is doing introducing all these measurse so he can pay himself MORE than bertie ahern did at the height of the real celtic tiger based on exports ?

theres is a MASSIVE readjustment on pay that needs to happen at the top of the civil service and politics in this country and its NOT happening .

they ARE scalping us to keep themselves in clover.

they took money off the blind and the disabled first FFS !

Psychedelic · 26-03-2012 9:44pm

Look into your hearts and pay.

gerryo777 · 26-03-2012 9:46pm

laugh wrote: »

This argument is idiocy, our other taxes paid for these things until now, paye, vat etc, they wouldn't need this money if they didn't pay civil servants too much and burned the bond holders.

We can't touch the Croke Park agreement, don't want to be upsetting the PS unions now, do we?
You know what happens here, industrial 'peace' at any cost, especially in the PS.
It's this kind of thinking that has us, four years into a recession, still handing pay rises to PS workers.

dvpower · 26-03-2012 9:48pm

squod wrote: »

Government = Chuggers

squod wrote: »

It's hardly a prejudice. I'm stating the obvious.

gerryo777 · 26-03-2012 9:51pm

black francis wrote: »

Well done Gerry, there's hope for you yet, have a biscuit.

That's right, highlight the bit you like.

squod · 26-03-2012 9:53pm

lugha wrote: »

No but the no side could desist from recycling this notion that the government are some of pirates skelping the hapless for every cent they can get to add to their personal fortunes, as you might believe reading some contributions here.

Joe Duffy put it brilliantly today. When PAYE was over 50% in Ireland the government was telling everyone that ''we're in this together''. We now know what that government were into, charvet shirts, yachts and fine wines.

It's a scam. That's the honest truth. The government could get €160m by making departments like health more efficient. It could probably get many times that.

Slick50 · 26-03-2012 9:57pm

dvpower wrote: »

You clicked on the History For Kids link? Bravo.
(I thought you were asking a rhetorical question and prinz was taking the piss out of you, but it is good to see that at least someone gaining an education out of this thread.)

Like you, he thinks he's the only one that knows what's going on around here. But still hasn't come up with one good reason why the government should be given leverage against our homes.

Frank Black · 26-03-2012 9:57pm

squod wrote: »

Joe Duffy put it brilliantly today. When PAYE was over 50% in Ireland the government was telling everyone that ''we're in this together''. We now know what that government were into, charvet shirts, yachts and fine wines.

It's a scam. That's the honest truth. The government could get €160m by making departments like health more efficient. It could probably get many times that.

So obvious, why couldn't We see this before?
You sir, are a visionary, and I suggest you run for election next time, with ideas like that you're bound to get the country back on track.

You have my number 1, you incredibly insightful man.

gerryo777 · 26-03-2012 9:58pm

squod wrote: »

It's a scam. That's the honest truth. The government could get €160m by making departments like health more efficient. It could probably get many times that.

That won't happen, there's no appetite for major change with our spoiled public 'servants'.
They'll tinker around the edges a bit but the sense of entitlement will always be there.

prinz · 26-03-2012 9:59pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

That won't happen, there's no appetite for major change with our spoiled public 'servants'.
They'll tinker around the edges a bit but the sense of entitlement will always be there.

The sense of entitlement goes far beyond the public service.

gerryo777 · 26-03-2012 10:00pm

prinz wrote: »

The sense of entitlement goes far beyond the public service.

Care to expand on that?

Ghandee · 26-03-2012 10:05pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

Care to expand on that?

I presume he means some of the top CS workers too.

prinz · 26-03-2012 10:06pm

Ghandee wrote: »

I presume he means some of the top CS workers too.

No, public, private top down, it filters right down to Joe Soap who thinks they are entitled to free water, free services, free national TV services, extremely generous welfare, etc etc

Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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