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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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    #5072
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    dvpower wrote: »
    Do you think this one will be scrapped?


    I can see alot of FG and Labour back benchers causing alot of trouble in the next 2 weeks or so.;)


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    #5073
    Cork24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,663 ✭✭✭Cork24


    So who said that their not going to pay for it and now ended up paying for it?

    On the word tax.. We're lucky where not in Germany but then again their system is well worth paying into unlike this hell whole of a place..


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    #5074
    apache6
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭apache6


    paddy, if i could get up and just go i would, but i can't so chin up eh......but i am in the mood for a collision with the powers that be


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    #5075
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Cork24 wrote: »
    So who said that their not going to pay for it and now ended up paying for it?

    Was just thinking that one myself today.


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    #5076
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    paddy147 wrote: »
    I can see alot of FG and Labour back benchers causing alot of trouble in the next 2 weeks or so.;)
    Do you have any specific names in mind?


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    #5077
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Cork24 wrote: »
    So who said that their not going to pay for it and now ended up paying for it?

    On the word tax.. We're lucky where not in Germany but then again their system is well worth paying into unlike this hell whole of a place..


    I dont care about France,Greece,Germany or anywhere else.

    They can all do what ever the hell they like.


    Sure France has a corrupt president who is a blatant criminal and fraudster.

    He did a dodgey deal with Gadaffi Duck and illegaly accepted 50 million quid from Gadaffi back in 2007 for his campaign/pockets.


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    #5078
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    dvpower wrote: »
    Do you have any specific names in mind?


    No,but theres allready rumblings there and cracks appearing.

    Look at what happened when the OAPS ran a muck a few years ago and lambasted their local TDs and then marched on the goverment.

    People power won out in the end.:D


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    #5079
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,751 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    apache6 wrote: »
    paddy, if i could get up and just go i would, but i can't so chin up eh......but i am in the mood for a collision with the powers that be

    For the sake of €100 this year I will try to dissuade your from making your life even more complcated than it is. All unpaid charges, fines and interest go on the title of a property and the solicitor doing the conveyancing when it changes hands is legally obliged to obtain a certificate of discharge before the house can be transferred. Meaning that you will just run up an unnecessary bill and tie yourself up in avoidable legalities. You can read this in the legislation if you doubt what I am saying. The CAHWT never mention any of this in their Dont Register Dont Pay agitation.


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    #5080
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    paddy147 wrote: »
    No,but theres allready rumblings there and cracks appearing.
    Specifically, what rumblings and cracks are you talking about?


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    #5081
    Cork24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,663 ✭✭✭Cork24


    paddy147 wrote: »
    Cork24 wrote: »
    So who said that their not going to pay for it and now ended up paying for it?

    On the word tax.. We're lucky where not in Germany but then again their system is well worth paying into unlike this hell whole of a place..


    I dont care about France,Greece,Germany or anywhere else.

    They can all do what ever the hell they like.


    Sure France has a corrupt president who is a blatant criminal and fraudster.

    He did a dodgey deal with Gadaffi Duck and illegaly accepted 50 million quid from Gadaffi back in 2007 for his campaign/pockets.


    But yet we seem to be France and Germany's little bitch!!

    We sit when they tell us and bark when they say.. Bark

    We are better off with the uk then this **** euro zone


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    #5082
    apache6
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭apache6


    dxhound, i know, and you are right - just a bit angry at the moment.

    However, whether i pay or not people will have to make up their minds about how far they are prepared to be pushed around.

    If not this issue then there will be another, perhaps more worthy of our indignation.


  • Options
    #5083
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Cork24 wrote: »
    But yet we seem to be France and Germany's little bitch!!

    We sit when they tell us and bark when they say.. Bark

    We are better off with the uk then this **** euro zone


    NO WE dont sit and bark when told to.

    The Irish people do have a voice and a spine and alot of anger ready to be unleashed.

    ENDA Kenny does all the sitting and barking,when ordered to by France and Germany.

    Its just like Blair was Bushes "poodle"

    Enda is the bitch in all of this.

    Not the Irish people.


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    #5084
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    For the sake of €100 this year I will try to dissuade your from making your life even more complcated than it is. All unpaid charges, fines and interest go on the title of a property and the solicitor doing the conveyancing when it changes hands is legally obliged to obtain a certificate of discharge before the house can be transferred. Meaning that you will just run up an unnecessary bill and tie yourself up in avoidable legalities. You can read this in the legislation if you doubt what I am saying. The CAHWT never mention any of this in their Dont Register Dont Pay agitation.

    It wont if the household charge is proven to be unlawfull and unenforceble,when the case goes before the court very soon (story in Irish Daily mail).

    And seen as the person is getting a SW payment,then the person would be entitled to get free legal advice and representation by FLAC in any court action or case with regards legalities..


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    #5085
    apache6
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭apache6


    Enda is the bitch in all of this.

    Not the Irish people.

    Bravo that man.


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    #5086
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    paddy147 wrote: »
    No,but theres allready rumblings there and cracks appearing.

    Look at what happened when the OAPS ran a muck a few years ago and lambasted their local TDs and then marched on the goverment.

    People power won out in the end.:D

    No, FF's desperation to hold onto power won out
    They were too concerned about appeasing the grey vote to make the tough decisions that needed to be made, as are their FG predecessors now.


  • Options
    #5087
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    For the sake of €100 this year I will try to dissuade your from making your life even more complcated than it is. All unpaid charges, fines and interest go on the title of a property and the solicitor doing the conveyancing when it changes hands is legally obliged to obtain a certificate of discharge before the house can be transferred. Meaning that you will just run up an unnecessary bill and tie yourself up in avoidable legalities. You can read this in the legislation if you doubt what I am saying. The CAHWT never mention any of this in their Dont Register Dont Pay agitation.


    For 12 years. You can register, but then are liable for life. The Nazis asked the jews to self register, with penalties for those who withheld their names and addresses. Maybe those who have not registered should were a shamrock in defiance tomorrow.! :D

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #5088
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,751 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    paddy147 wrote: »
    It wont if the household charge is proven to be unlawfull and unenforceble,when the case goes before the court very soon (story in Irish Daily mail).

    And seen as the person is getting a SW payment,then the person would be entitled to get free legal advice and representation by FLAC in any court action or case with regards legalities..

    No legal case it's just part of the conveyancing process. Deeds cannot be handed over until everything is paid. You can read it in the legislation.


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    #5089
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    dvpower wrote: »
    Do you think this one will be scrapped?

    I think if people stood united then yes.

    If more than a third of the people have registered before this months end then it bis a victory for the Troika.

    The millions of euro spent paying this unjust regressive tax have been sucked out of the real economy and it is costing jobs right around the country.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #5090
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,751 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    For 12 years. You can register, but then are liable for life. The Nazis asked the jews to self register, with penalties for those who withheld their names and addresses. Maybe those who have not registered should were a shamrock in defiance tomorrow.! :D

    Tomorrow the CAHWT will be counting me in the 1. something million as supporting their campaing because I haven't paid. But I haven't paid yet because the money is not due yet. And there will be many more like me paying in the next two weeks.


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    #5091
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    No legal case it's just part of the conveyancing process. Deeds cannot be handed over until everything is paid. You can read it in the legislation.


    Total BS dxhound what evidence do you have to support this?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #5092
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Tomorrow the CAHWT will be counting me in the 1. something million as supporting their campaing because I haven't paid. But I haven't paid yet because the money is not due yet. And there will be many more like me paying in the next two weeks.

    What do you expect the tally to be for registration by months end??

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #5093
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,751 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Total BS dxhound what evidence do you have to support this?

    People are probably tired of me doing this but anyway.

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf

    The vendor of a residential property shall, before the completion
    of the sale of the property, pay to the relevant local authority
    all household charges, late payment fees and late payment interest
    due and owing to the relevant local authority in respect of that residential
    property.
    (4) On or before the completion of the sale of a residential property,
    the vendor of that residential property shall, in respect of that
    residential property, give to the purchaser—
    (a) a certificate of discharge,
    (b) a certificate of exemption, or
    (c) a certificate of waiver,
    as may be appropriate, in respect of each year in which a liability
    date fell since the date of the last sale of the property.
    (5) As against a bona fide purchaser or mortgagee of such property
    for full consideration in money or money’s worth without notice,
    or a person deriving title from or under such a purchaser or mortgagee,
    a certificate of discharge, a certificate of waiver or a certificate
    of exemption shall discharge the property concerned from liability
    for any household charge and related late payment fee and late payment
    interest due by the owner of that property for each year in
    which the liability date or dates to which the certificate relates fell.
    (6) A person who contravenes subsection (3) shall be guilty of an
    offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a class C fine.

    There is a similar clause in the legislation covering transfer of property upon the owner's death.


  • Options
    #5094
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,751 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    What do you expect the tally to be for registration by months end??

    58%, and you?


  • Options
    #5095
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    No legal case it's just part of the conveyancing process. Deeds cannot be handed over until everything is paid. You can read it in the legislation.

    The threat they make if you don,t pay they put a charge on someones property is Not an automatic charge. It may become one but it would take a court case to order it. This is by no means certain to happen. If it ever did happen the charge can only be for a period of 12 years, it's not forever.


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    #5096
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    58%, and you?

    Less than 50% and I will make a wager with you.

    If on the 1st of April 2012 the number of people who have registered for the household charge exceeds 51% I will never post in this forum again, neither should you

    Agreed??

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #5097
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Am Chile wrote: »
    It may become one but it would take a court case to order it.
    Where in the legislation do you read this?


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    #5098
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    People are probably tired of me doing this but anyway.

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf

    The vendor of a residential property shall, before the completion
    of the sale of the property, pay to the relevant local authority
    all household charges, late payment fees and late payment interest
    due and owing to the relevant local authority in respect of that residential
    property.
    (4) On or before the completion of the sale of a residential property,
    the vendor of that residential property shall, in respect of that
    residential property, give to the purchaser—
    (a) a certificate of discharge,
    (b) a certificate of exemption, or
    (c) a certificate of waiver,
    as may be appropriate, in respect of each year in which a liability
    date fell since the date of the last sale of the property.
    (5) As against a bona fide purchaser or mortgagee of such property
    for full consideration in money or money’s worth without notice,
    or a person deriving title from or under such a purchaser or mortgagee,
    a certificate of discharge, a certificate of waiver or a certificate
    of exemption shall discharge the property concerned from liability
    for any household charge and related late payment fee and late payment
    interest due by the owner of that property for each year in
    which the liability date or dates to which the certificate relates fell.
    (6) A person who contravenes subsection (3) shall be guilty of an
    offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a class C fine.

    There is a similar clause in the legislation covering transfer of property upon the owner's death.


    Are you aware of the 12 year statute of limitations of recovery of debt?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Options
    #5099
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    dvpower wrote: »
    Where in the legislation do you read this?

    Legal advice that has being obtained on the matter.


  • Options
    #5100
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Less than 50% and I will make a wager with you.

    If on the 1st of April 2012 the number of people who have registered for the household charge exceeds 51% I will never post in this forum again, neither should you

    Agreed??


    Shame we couldnt do this to all the gamblers (sorry I mean bond holders/speculators) who took a gamble on a certain Irish bank.

    Well we (the public) can do it,but its just the Kenny and Noonan havent got the collective balls between them,to do it and tell them to fcuk off.


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    #5101
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,751 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Am Chile wrote: »
    The threat they make if you don,t pay they put a charge on someones property is Not an automatic charge. It may become one but it would take a court case to order it. This is by no means certain to happen. If it ever did happen the charge can only be for a period of 12 years, it's not forever.

    Are you sure there would have to be a court case? Solicitors would love it as it would just cost the people involved even more. But my interpretation is that the money just has to be paid and then the deeds can be released.


This discussion has been closed.
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