Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

mikom wrote: »

Ah.......... Yeahhhhhh.
Bring it on.....



This is typical of a government that has forgotten that 500,000 daily Irish speakers exist. Irish speakers’ language rights have been ignored by a government that is at best indifferent to the Irish language and at worst hostile.

There seems to be a reasonable chance that the government will end up with egg on its face with regards to this challenge. Not only have 85% of the population decided not to sign up so far but it now looks likely that the legislation will be unconstitutional.

The household charge is grossly unfair and much of the money raised will end up paying off private debt. There are progressive revenue raising alternatives that would raise equal amounts of funds if not more. The government’s plans to introduce the household charge are in disarray and they need to withdraw it.

Peadar Tóibín TD

Interesting development. This is just a snippet from something on google.

Successive Supreme Court decisions found that the State must make Acts of the Oireachtas available through Irish as soon as is practicable, or within a reasonable period, of the Act being published in English.

So I suppose the question for decision would be whether it has been practicable for the Irish version to have been made available before now and what is the definition of a reasonable period. One for the judges.

dvpower wrote: »

Open it too much and your brain falls out.

Dont worry I would not say that would be likely now in your case anyway

Mr CJ wrote: »

And why would you break this law? because its unfair and wrong.

Taxation is unfair. There's a new concept.

Can i get a rebate for all of the taxes that I have paid that I reasonably consider unfair?

The posts in this thread from the "Im not paying" side are really really disheartening. Some serious head-in-sand stuff.

Some of the usual points;

• Im not paying! Its all just going to the banks!!!
• No, it isnt. We're only going to pay the interest on the money raised for the bank bailout. If we could wipe the bank bailout part of our national debt (or even our ENTIRE national debt, 75% of which will be non-bank bailout related when it peaks in a couple years) and didnt have to service interest on out national debt, we'd still have a deficit of about €10B a year we'd need to bridge.

• I already pay tax, why do I have to pay more?!?
• The state spends about €70B a year and takes in about €54B. Either the €70B needs to drop (cutting pensions, dole, 3rd level grants, public sector pay, closing hospitals/schools/Garda stations), or raise taxes (something sensible and stable, like a property tax ). There is no choice in this matter, its simple maths.

• Its a trap! Theyll increase it next year! Thats the secret they dont want us to know!
• Of course it will be increased, we need to take these measures to bridge our deficit.

• This wont increase the standard of public services or welfare I receive!!
• Thats because the standard of services and levels of welfare are already too expensive for the state. We can only maintain those levels because of the loan we've been given so we can reduce the deficit over a number of years, rather than overnight (which I hope you realise would be a disaster )

• Theyre taking money out of the economy with this tax! Theyre so dumb!
• We need to do this one way or another (cuts in services and welfare, higher income tax). Its not a choice.

• Im doing this to give the IMF the two fingers, theyre evil!!!
• The IMF is lending us money at lower interest rates than we were ever able to raise ourselves IIRC, even at the heigt of the Celtic Tiger.

• About 20 years ago Enda Kenny said this was an unjust tax! Therefore I dont have to pay!
• Circumstances have changed massively since then, and it was something he said nearly 2 decades ago, come on

Loads more I couldnt be bothered going through. The simple fact of the matter is we need to raise taxes and cut spending. I was in favour of a property tax because having read up on them I found that apparantly they cause less damage to an economy than other forms of taxation, because its a stable sustainable tax that can be calculated and relied on each year, rather than transaction taxes that can be up or down depending on consumer sentiment or once of stamp duty from a property bubble. It appears this tax is going to fail so I hope the government choose to gradually reduce tax credits, by say ~€700 a year.

Would the "No" side be ok with that, ~€700 a year less in tax credits (as in, are you against this tax because its a tax on a home), or do you just not want to know about the deficit?

this one is for all the pro people, in the unlikely event they are successfull bringing this thing in I can imagine the happy faces on you all. When next year come happy faces again when your reminded of the charge and you have to pay €1500 great stuff this is fantastic.

You's are all crazy...

drkpower wrote: »

You might want this to be about one particular tax, but in order to argue reasonably about the unfairness of one particular tax you need to convincingly distinguish it from other types of taxation.

Other types of taxation=sometimes purposeful, sometimes stealing.

This tax=stealing.

grindle wrote: »

Other types of taxation=sometimes purposeful, sometimes stealing.

This tax=stealing.

In order to argue reasonably about the unfairness of one particular tax you need to convincingly distinguish it from other types of taxation.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It's already in. And when I pay my €100 in ten days time I won't have to worry about racking up fines and interest and being on the wrong side of the law. I will worry about next year next year.

No point worrying about it you will just have to pay it if you register now.

The pro people are saying its only 100, next yr is irrelevant worry about it then. This is so so wrong this is the gateway tax, when more people go mad next yr when they have to fork out over a grand there is nothing they can do and it will serve them all right for not helping to stop it now!!