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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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    #4112
    golfwallah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Why should anyone want to pay a new tax ?
    The house is now mine. Stamp duty paid long ago.
    I want to live a bit and once again do you really think it will be 100e in 5 years. Come on now. Won't pay.

    Let me get this right, you:
    1. Own your own house
    2. Have cleared the mortgage
    3. And the missus are both working
    4. Have put 5 kids through college – all “paid by me” (all 3rd level education is heavily subsidized by the taxpayer)
    5. “Want to live a bit and once again”

    Really – you don’t sound hard up to me?

    You also state that “savers in State Saving Bonds are the elite super-rich similar to the Galway Tent crowd. They definitely are not working class people”.

    Where are your facts to back this up? Just made it up now, didn’t you?

    And you, “won’t pay” – c’mon now who do you think you’re kidding?

    Suppose you’ll be telling us next that you can’t even afford Sky sports to look at the footie.

    Why not just lash out at every politician in sight? - sounds like rant to me.

    I think you have a bad case of wanting to have your cake and eat it.


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    #4113
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    gurramok wrote: »
    Thats when people put out the line "'i've already paid thousands in stamp duty", proof is there they can afford 100quid.

    Not everyone is in the same financial position they were when they bought their house. So what you say is proof of nothing.

    Also, the line you mention above is valid. Stamp duty was a property tax that some paid.


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    #4114
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Not everyone is in the same financial position they were when they bought their house. So what you say is proof of nothing.

    Also, the line you mention above is valid. Stamp duty was a property tax that some paid.

    The poster if you were reading has the mortgage paid off and blamed his financial problems on putting 5 kids through college. Nothing to do with buying a house, do keep up.

    Stamp duty, no-one was forced to pay it. Its a red herring as it was going to be added on in the era of rising prices via the mortgage. Remember the 317,500 bracket, ring a bell?


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    #4115
    NJS007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭NJS007


    D1stant wrote: »
    Simple Question

    I will pay it even though it's unfair because I agree with taxing wealth and the tax base should be wide . BUT it should be means tested and relative to the size and location of the property

    I am waiting for Ray D'Arcy to make a statement linking this with emmigration
    No way, no how.....


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    #4116
    NJS007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭NJS007


    D1stant wrote: »
    Simple Question

    I will pay it even though it's unfair because I agree with taxing wealth and the tax base should be wide . BUT it should be means tested and relative to the size and location of the property

    I am waiting for Ray D'Arcy to make a statement linking this with emmigration
    No way, no how.....


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    #4117
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    DoesNotCompute wrote: »
    Anyone who doesn't pay up is going to force the govt to borrow more money, causing schools, hospitals, and garda stations to close. Anyone who refuses to pay will contribute to the increased suffering of their fellow countrymen, in my book.

    What a complete load of ****e.
    The pro campaign must be in big trouble when they're coming out with this kind of drivel!!


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    #4118
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    gurramok wrote: »
    The poster if you were reading has the mortgage paid off and blamed his financial problems on putting 5 kids through college. Nothing to do with buying a house, do keep up.

    Keep up you say?

    Well this thread is not about one single poster. This is indicated by the following, which was not a response to the same poster you mention.
    gurramok wrote: »
    Its 100quid in 2012. What happens in 2013 is irrelevant as we're not discussing a higher sum.

    Or this,
    Thats when people put out the line "'i've already paid thousands in stamp duty", proof is there they can afford 100quid.
    Is the above only about one poster also, or people in general?

    If it is only about one poster, and one posters position in the property tax arguement is all your talking about here, then your right, i need to keep up.

    Stamp duty, no-one was forced to pay it. Its a red herring as it was going to be added on in the era of rising prices via the mortgage. Remember the 317,500 bracket, ring a bell?


    Forced or not, they paid it. They contributed more to the country than your prudent self did through property taxes, who presumably never paid stamp duty, being more prudent than those that did.


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    #4119
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,510 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    gurramok wrote: »
    What? You're cop out is that you're broke from funding your 5 kids through 3rd level(despite grants being available). You could afford that no problem yet will not pay 100 quid!

    Correct. I have paid Stamp Duty. If they give that back to me I might pay the 100e.:D


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    #4120
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    If it is only about one poster, and one posters position in the property tax arguement is all your talking about here, then your right, i need to keep up

    The poster paid stamp duty as did some others who are crying wolf now.
    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Forced or not, they paid it. They contributed more to the country than your prudent self did through property taxes, who presumably never paid stamp duty, being more prudent than those that did.

    How did you spring that one up? Funny how you do not mention anything about services.


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    #4121
    booboo88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭booboo88


    Can someone explain to me that the household charge is to replace the local authorities cuts, yet people who are living in social housing are exempt?


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    #4122
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    booboo88 wrote: »
    Can someone explain to me that the household charge is to replace the local authorities cuts, yet people who are living in social housing are exempt?

    People in social housing are the 'most vulnerable in society' and cannot afford to pay it. Don't shoot me but that's the line being played :)


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    #4123
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,510 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    golfwallah wrote: »
    Let me get this right, you:
    1. Own your own house
    2. Have cleared the mortgage
    3. And the missus are both working
    4. Have put 5 kids through college – all “paid by me” (all 3rd level education is heavily subsidized by the taxpayer)
    5. “Want to live a bit and once again”

    Really – you don’t sound hard up to me?

    You also state that “savers in State Saving Bonds are the elite super-rich similar to the Galway Tent crowd. They definitely are not working class people”.

    Where are your facts to back this up? Just made it up now, didn’t you?

    And you, “won’t pay” – c’mon now who do you think you’re kidding?

    Suppose you’ll be telling us next that you can’t even afford Sky sports to look at the footie.

    Why not just lash out at every politician in sight? - sounds like rant to me.

    I think you have a bad case of wanting to have your cake and eat it.

    1. I am not paying this Household Tax.
    2. I don't really care who the bondholders are.
    3. I do not have Sky T.V. but I might get it soon.
    4. Myself and the wife paid all our taxes BUT we won't be paying this one. It is our house and not theirs. Nearly 90% of home owners are refusing to pay and they are right.
    5. The Govt always look after their cronies. Any correspondence sent to me will be destroyed.


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    #4124
    booboo88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭booboo88


    gurramok wrote: »
    People in social housing are the 'most vulnerable in society' and cannot afford to pay it. Don't shoot me but that's the line being played :)

    What a load of donkey kong, they get free refuse, live practically rent free, if anything they have more money.


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    #4125
    The_Thing
    Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭The_Thing


    Watched the 6 O'Clock news earlier - only 14% have paid so far and just 18 days to go.


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    #4126
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,510 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    The_Thing wrote: »
    Watched the 6 O'Clock news earlier - only 14% have paid so far and just 18 days to go.

    Well i'd say 14% is an exaggeration. I don't know anyone who paid it.


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    #4127
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    gurramok wrote: »
    How did you spring that one up? Funny how you do not mention anything about services.

    Some paid stamp duty, some did not. Those that did have contributed large sums of property based tax. They are still paying that tax back as loan repayments. Now they are being asked to pay more property tax, the same amount as others who paid no stamp duty.


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    #4128
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,065 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Your man on the 6 o'clock news was saying that lengthy queues were starting to form outside of some council offices with people that wanted to pay the charge.

    hahaha, yeah right.


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    #4129
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Some paid stamp duty, some did not. Those that did have contributed large sums of property based tax. They are still paying that tax back as loan repayments. Now they are being asked to pay more property tax, the same amount as others who paid no stamp duty.

    Or you could alternatively argue that those that paid crazy amounts of stamp duty enabled the govt to go crazy increasing current spending, thus contributing to the current problem.


    Seems only fair they should pay property tax too.


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    #4130
    TreesAreCrowd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 137 ✭✭TreesAreCrowd


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Well i'd say 14% is an exaggeration. I don't know anyone who paid it.
    No, you don't know anyone who'll admit to paying it to your face.


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    #4131
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,510 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    TreesAreCrowd wrote: »
    No, you don't know anyone who'll admit to paying it to your face.

    ok then Phil. Sure everyone will pay it :rolleyes:


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    #4132
    Where To
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭Where To


    Just paid mine, wasn't painful at all.


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    #4133
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    black francis wrote: »
    Or you could alternatively argue that those that paid crazy amounts of stamp duty enabled the govt to go crazy increasing current spending, thus contributing to the current problem.


    Seems only fair they should pay property tax too.

    If a citizen pays a hefty lumpsum of tax, you now say they should be held accountable for the governments irresponsible use of that tax?

    So on one hand your saying its pay up to save the country, and on the other hand, your saying your previous large tax lumpsum you paid the state means nothing because the govenrment wasted it, and you deserve to pay more tax for previously giving the government too much money.

    Such rubbish.


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    #4134
    golfwallah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    tayto lover wrote: »
    1. I am not paying this Household Tax.
    2. I don't really care who the bondholders are.
    3. I do not have Sky T.V. but I might get it soon.
    4. Myself and the wife paid all our taxes BUT we won't be paying this one. It is our house and not theirs. Nearly 90% of home owners are refusing to pay and they are right.
    5. The Govt always look after their cronies. Any correspondence sent to me will be destroyed.

    Pull the other one, dear boy!

    Don't believe a word!:D


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    #4135
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,510 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    golfwallah wrote: »
    Pull the other one, dear boy!

    Don't believe a word!:D

    Couldn't give two :)


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    #4136
    plasmaguy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    There was another country, I can't remember the name of it now offhand.

    They wouldn't pay their taxes in full. They said it was stupid to pay taxes. And they blamed a golden circle, and also the fact that no-one else paid their taxes, as the reason no-one should pay taxes. In the end they ran out of money and had to go begging to the IMF for a dig out.

    Oh what was their name again...oh yeh now, I remember...it was Greece...wonder how that rebellion against paying taxes turned out for them...

    If you think the austerity the IMF is rightly imposing on us now to force us to close the gap between our current account spending and revenue is bad, if we stop paying taxes, it will be ten times worse, on the scale of that of the Greeks.


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    #4137
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    On the 6.01 they had a guy on saying all the ways they'd catch out people who don't register, like checking if unregistered houses were getting electricity? In my experience it's not just home owners who have electricity. Are they going to start sending demands to tens of thousands of tenants who aren't eligible for the charge? Because they'll only end up with egg on their face if they do.


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    #4138
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,551 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Busy thread today so I haven't read the newer pages. I hear on the news that the latest Revenue Commissioners defaulters list is out. The big cases are in Part 2.

    http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/2012/pr-130312-defaulters-list.html

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/nightclub-business-of-john-reynolds-forced-to-repay-479211-to-revenue-commissioners-3048919.html

    The reason it's relevant to the discussion here is that the Revenue Commissioners are one of the entities named in the legislation as being allowed to exchange data for the purposes of the administration of the Household Charge. I'm sure the people named in the list wouldn't thank me for the extra publicity on Boards. But they were the ones stupid or brazen enough to defy the tax laws to the extent that their names had to be published in the first place and in the process become liable for fortunes in interest and penalties.

    I think the Revenue could be getting close to exhausting investigations into bogus offshore accounts and might be minded in future to turn their interest to other forms of lawbreaking. It might be a good idea for people announcing publicly that they are going to break the Household Charge / Property Tax laws to have their other tax affairs in order. When the Revenue wolves come calling I would rather be one of the sheep safely corraled with those who have paid and not saying I'm not paying, come and get me.


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    #4139
    plasmaguy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    golfwallah wrote: »
    Pull the other one, dear boy!

    Don't believe a word!:D

    I have a feeling people like you and I are wasting our time with the economic illiterates.

    Let's be honest, 95% of people don't understand economics, or don't understand current account deficits, mounting national debt, the fundamental unavoidable need for austerity and to bring spending and revenue into some form of alignment. They simply don't understand it or get it.

    As evidenced by some posters, they only care about having a good night out, or a trip to see Man Utd, or a stag abroad. Completely blinkered way of life.

    The government have made a bit of a balls of this tax to be honest. There should be no choice in the matter.

    Possibly a better way of doing it would be to deduct it from people's salaries so they can't refuse. The voluntary nature of the tax is what invites widespread rebellion.

    With taxes like motor tax, there is a good chance you will be put off the road if you don't pay. There is no stick available really to the government to deal with those who won't pay the property tax.

    But we need to raise more tax, anyone who disputes that is an economic illiterate and hardly worth discussing this with them. Just because the economic illiterates are in the majority does not make their cause right, it just means the economic illiterates are wrong and in the majority.

    Sometimes democracy doesn't work!


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    #4140
    Slick50
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    dvpower wrote: »
    More scaremongering.
    There is nothing in the legislation or no suggestion that non payment will lead to foreclosure.

    It may not be in the picture at the moment, but who's to say what draconian measures they will introduce in the future. As this tax, or whatever guise it takes in the future, becomes greater the government would become all the more eager to collect it. You cannot trust them to not introduce whatever legislation they deem necessary, politicians lie.

    It wouldn't be foreclosure either, that is something that may happen if you fail to pay your mortgage. This could happen even if you have no mortgage.

    Does anyone know what penalties are in place on the continent, for non payment of property tax(es).


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    #4141
    TreesAreCrowd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 137 ✭✭TreesAreCrowd


    tayto lover wrote: »
    ok then Phil. Sure everyone will pay it :rolleyes:
    I hope they don't, the fines attached to it far exceed the initial charge and will be a welcome source of income for the country :)


This discussion has been closed.
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