Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

donalg1 · 13-03-2012 11:38am

smash wrote: »

The difference is that Motor tax is not a mandatory tax just because you own a car. You can claim it off the road or use it as a track car and not pay any. You also get to choose how much you want to pay, based on what car you buy. Motor tax is not an ownership tax, and it would be considered a luxury tax too.

To me Motor Tax is mandatory as I need a car to get anywhere, no buses where I live so if I want to get to work or a shop or anywhere I have to drive. I see the two as being quite similiar as in they are both apparently collected to fund local services and non payment of either results in fines if of course the non payment is discovered.

dvpower · 13-03-2012 11:42am

tayto lover wrote: »

When you say "people" you obviously mean some people. The well off. I don't know anyone who is saving. The people I know are put to the pin of their collars to keep a roof over their heads and feed their families. Myself and my wife work and we have two children still in college. We save zero. Every cent is spoken for. So who are these savers then ? I suggest they are the elite super-rich similar to the Galway Tent crowd. They definitely are not working class people.

Do you support burning these bondholders?

Frank Black · 13-03-2012 11:43am

Ghandee wrote: »

black francis wrote: »

Am Chile wrote: »

The same left all only take the average Industrial wage,Im not a Ula voter, I happen to be a sinn fein voter, but Im glad both parties only draw the average Industrial wage, both parties are far more in touch with ordinary working people

This is the third time I'll ask you Francis.

What party are you alignned with?

Your reluctance to answer this has me very sceptical tbh.

I'm a Government Shill - I thought ye already knew that .

I'm not aligned with any Party - there's none of them that align with my political and societal outlook enough.

I vote from the bottom of the polling card up. I always start with Sinn Finn on the bottom with a blank and then I'll vote in reverse preference until I'm left with the guy I hate the least as my number one.

smash · 13-03-2012 11:44am

donalg1 wrote: »

To me Motor Tax is mandatory as I need a car to get anywhere, no buses where I live so if I want to get to work or a shop or anywhere I have to drive.

That's the same for most people in Ireland. However you still have a choice on how much you want to pay, based on what car you buy. And if they turned around in the next budget and added another new tax to car ownership would you just accept it?

donalg1 wrote: »

I see the two as being quite similiar as in they are both apparently collected to fund local services and non payment of either results in fines if of course the non payment is discovered.

Then you're wrong. Road Tax was used to fund local services, Motor Tax isn't.

Ghandee · 13-03-2012 11:45am

black francis wrote: »

Ghandee wrote: »

black francis wrote: »

I'm a Government Shill - I thought ye already knew that .

I'm not aligned with any Party - there's none of them that align with my political and societal outlook enough.

I vote from the bottom of the polling card up. I always start with Sinn Finn on the bottom with a blank and then I'll vote in reverse preference until I'm left with the guy I hate the least as my number one.

If you can point me to anywhere on this thread where I have acused you, or anyone else of being a shill, please show me.

gurramok · 13-03-2012 11:46am

tayto lover wrote: »

When you say "people" you obviously mean some people. The well off. I don't know anyone who is saving. The people I know are put to the pin of their collars to keep a roof over their heads and feed their families. Myself and my wife work and we have two children still in college. We save zero. Every cent is spoken for. So who are these savers then ? I suggest they are the elite super-rich similar to the Galway Tent crowd. They definitely are not working class people.

Is this a sarcastic post? I'm working class and i'm a saver, I was prudent in the Celtic bubble years. I did not live beyond my means.

donalg1 · 13-03-2012 12:00pm

smash wrote: »

That's the same for most people in Ireland. However you still have a choice on how much you want to pay, based on what car you buy. And if they turned around in the next budget and added another new tax to car ownership would you just accept it?

Then you're wrong. Road Tax was used to fund local services, Motor Tax isn't.

What is Motor Tax used to fund then?

I dont have a choice in the car I drive though as I cant afford to change it and had a very limited budget when buying it so my choice was pretty limited. And as for a new tax being added well I most likely would accept it yes, as they increased Motor Tax in the last budget and I accepted that

smash · 13-03-2012 12:15pm

donalg1 wrote: »

What is Motor Tax used to fund then?

It goes into a pot for general purpose spending by local authorities, and it's not a lot of money. But it doesn't go directly into roads.

donalg1 wrote: »

I dont have a choice in the car I drive though as I cant afford to change it and had a very limited budget when buying it so my choice was pretty limited.

Much like people's houses then. The difference being that most people can't just sell their house that they've already paid a huge amount of tax on. You can still sell your car.

donalg1 wrote: »

And as for a new tax being added well I most likely would accept it yes, as they increased Motor Tax in the last budget and I accepted that

And in the next budget it will increase again, and the carbon levy on fuel will increase again too.

tayto lover · 13-03-2012 12:32pm

gurramok wrote: »

Is this a sarcastic post? I'm working class and i'm a saver, I was prudent in the Celtic bubble years. I did not live beyond my means.

Not sarcastic at all. Very simple and truthful.
We have never had a holiday abroad and our last Irish holiday was a week in a rented cottage in Mayo. I really don't get the savings bit. Every penny we have is accounted for. Just finished paying off the mortgage and now this. When you expect to start getting things a bit easier they hit you with someone elses debt.
Well I am not paying.

Frank Black · 13-03-2012 12:34pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Not sarcastic at all. Very simple and truthful.
We have never had a holiday abroad and our last Irish holiday was a week in a rented cottage in Mayo. I really don't get the savings bit. Every penny we have is accounted for. Just finished paying off the mortgage and now this. When you expect to start getting things a bit easier they hit you with someone elses debt.
Well I am not paying.

So just to be clear, you think all of the current budget deficit belongs to someone else?

gurramok · 13-03-2012 12:42pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Not sarcastic at all. Very simple and truthful.
We have never had a holiday abroad and our last Irish holiday was a week in a rented cottage in Mayo. I really don't get the savings bit. Every penny we have is accounted for. Just finished paying off the mortgage and now this. When you expect to start getting things a bit easier they hit you with someone elses debt.
Well I am not paying.

This don't make sense. How on earth do you have zero money leftover after expenses especially with no mortgage?

Frank Black · 13-03-2012 12:43pm

gurramok wrote: »

This don't make sense. How on earth do you have zero money leftover after expenses especially with no mortgage?

He spends it all on crisps.

donalg1 · 13-03-2012 12:44pm

smash wrote: »

It goes into a pot for general purpose spending by local authorities, and it's not a lot of money. But it doesn't go directly into roads.

Much like people's houses then. The difference being that most people can't just sell their house that they've already paid a huge amount of tax on. You can still sell your car.

And in the next budget it will increase again, and the carbon levy on fuel will increase again too.

I cant sell my car though as I have already stated.

And I said Motor Tax is apparently used to fund local services as is the Household Charge I never said it is used solely for Roads, and the fact that the amount of money taken in by LA's from Motor Tax receipts has decreased massively the need for other revenue raising charges such as the household charge and domestic water rates has been highlighted.

BostonB · 13-03-2012 12:45pm

black francis wrote: »

So just to be clear, you think all of the current budget deficit belongs to someone else?

Does it move with you if you emigrate? If not then yes it belongs to someone else. They have made it the cost of living and working in the state. Ownership is a different topic altogether.

BostonB · 13-03-2012 12:47pm

gurramok wrote: »

This don't make sense. How on earth do you have zero money leftover after expenses especially with no mortgage?

income=outgoings?

BostonB · 13-03-2012 12:48pm

donalg1 wrote: »

...And I said Motor Tax is apparently used to fund local services as is the Household Charge....

Where are you getting that from.

tfitzgerald · 13-03-2012 12:50pm

I'm not paying until they threaten me with the law. Then I'll probably fold and pay up:(

smash · 13-03-2012 12:50pm

donalg1 wrote: »

the fact that the amount of money taken in by LA's from Motor Tax receipts has decreased massively the need for other revenue raising charges such as the household charge and domestic water rates has been highlighted.

On top of the fact that they're reversing the motor tax system next budget, so they'll get that money back...

Frank Black · 13-03-2012 12:52pm

BostonB wrote: »

Does it move with you if you emigrate? If not then yes it belongs to someone else. They have made it the cost of living and working in the state. Ownership is a different topic altogether.

Semantics are great all right.

It's quite clear the question I asked - how much of our current budget deficit is "ours" and how much of it is "someone else's debt" as the Tayto Lover so eloquently puts it?

tayto lover · 13-03-2012 12:56pm

gurramok wrote: »

This don't make sense. How on earth do you have zero money leftover after expenses especially with no mortgage?

I have just paid my last month. I am not going to start paying a new one now. To be honest if I was a 20 years younger I would sell up and get out of this country and not look back. This is no country for old men.

gurramok · 13-03-2012 12:58pm

BostonB wrote: »

income=outgoings?

Ha!

The couple both work and have no mortgage yet tayto lover says both have zero money left over. Something is amiss or perhaps running that Ferrari is too costly

tayto lover · 13-03-2012 1:04pm

gurramok wrote: »

Ha!

The couple both work and have no mortgage yet tayto lover says both have zero money left over. Something is amiss or perhaps running that Ferrari is too costly

Try putting 5 kids through University and keeping them in Dublin without any form of grant aid then. Food and clothing and rent is not that cheap. The Credit Union loans had to be paid back too.

smash · 13-03-2012 1:04pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I have just paid my last month. I am not going to start paying a new one now. To be honest if I was a 20 years younger I would sell up and get out of this country and not look back. This is no country for old men.

So don't start paying a new one, sell up and get out with money in your pocket!

Frank Black · 13-03-2012 1:04pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I have just paid my last month. I am not going to start paying a new one now. To be honest if I was a 20 years younger I would sell up and get out of this country and not look back. This is no country for old men.

You've changed your tune here a lot - first off it was all about how every penny is accounted for and you can't afford an extra €100 tax.
Now, you basically saying that you just don't fancy paying a new tax despite not having any mortgage.

tayto lover · 13-03-2012 1:07pm

black francis wrote: »

You've changed your tune here a lot - first off it was all about how every penny is accounted for and you can't afford an extra €100 tax.
Now, you basically saying that you just don't fancy paying a new tax despite not having any mortgage.

Why should anyone want to pay a new tax ?
The house is now mine. Stamp duty paid long ago.
I want to live a bit and once again do you really think it will be 100e in 5 years. Come on now. Won't pay.

gurramok · 13-03-2012 1:10pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Try putting 5 kids through University and keeping them in Dublin without any form of grant aid then. Food and clothing and rent is not that cheap. The Credit Union loans had to be paid back too.

If you want 5 kids through university, why should the taxpayer pick up the tab for all 5? (suppose all 5 could not get a part time job even before the recession?)
Alot of people would love their kids to go through college(if they're brainy), its called financial planning to make it so.

donalg1 · 13-03-2012 1:11pm

BostonB wrote: »

Where are you getting that from.

Its a widely known fact that all money collected through Motor Tax is centralised and then re-allocated to Local Authorities as part of the Local Government Fund.

BostonB · 13-03-2012 1:18pm

black francis wrote: »

Semantics are great all right.

It's quite clear the question I asked - how much of our current budget deficit is "ours" and how much of it is "someone else's debt" as the Tayto Lover so eloquently puts it?

There's either personal ownership or their isn't. And there isn't. The budget deficit is the cost to run (overrun) the state. The state owns it if you want to use that concept. The individual doesn't. If people accept the state (govt) passing ever increasing costs to the tax payer they'll not reduce their costs, or change policy to improve the income of the state. Peoples ability to pay is not an endless pit. Considering there's no fairness to this tax. Why should people pay an unfair tax.

BostonB · 13-03-2012 1:24pm

donalg1 wrote: »

Its a widely known fact that all money collected through Motor Tax is centralised and then re-allocated to Local Authorities as part of the Local Government Fund.

Pedantic maybe, but as such motor tax may not get spent solely on local roads.

tayto lover · 13-03-2012 1:24pm

gurramok wrote: »

If you want 5 kids through university, why should the taxpayer pick up the tab for all 5? (suppose all 5 could not get a part time job even before the recession?)
Alot of people would love their kids to go through college(if they're brainy), its called financial planning to make it so.

Read the bloody post. I said I did it without grants. All paid by me :rolleyes:

Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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