Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

daltonmd · 06-03-2012 3:53pm

cowzerp wrote: »

Not paying this, they can take me to court-im sure they'll have fun taking most the population to court!

we're taxed on our wages, taxed when spending our money, taxed for buying a car, taxed on the car, pay toll bridge taxes, then most the money we spend on petrol is for tax, it's taking the piiss and now they want people to pay a tax on their home with nothing in return and after most people payed massive tax to buy over inflated houses that are woth feck all.

It has to be pointed out, again, that there will be no court cases, there will be no system clog up - they will garnish your income/SW and you will pay it, you can pay 100 euro now, or you can pay 100 euro plus the penalties and fees later.
I'm no fan or advocate but I do think that people should be aware of this fact.

dvpower · 06-03-2012 3:58pm

goz83 wrote: »

I'm not sure of the residential mortgage debt figure, but I recall the sum not being that big and there were suggestions to alleviate this anyway to stimulate the economy.

Negative equity is €8.3bn - these figures are a year old I think, so it's a bit higher now.

In the currency of this thread, that's 52 years of household charges.

goz83 · 06-03-2012 4:02pm

dvpower wrote: »

We're actually lower than most western countries, even with recent increases.

And we get far far far less than "most" too. Consider what we do get for our taxes and how everything we use and often don't use is taxed. Next, we will need a license to have sex and a luxury tax will be slapped on that too. The spin will be "it's to control under age sex and to give powers to persecute those who break that law".....
Tax Payer: "but minister don't you already have those laws in place without the license?"

Minister: "This document is long overdue"
Tax Payer: "but minister, you haven't answered my question"
Minister: "Does this tie make me look fat?"
Sponger: "Minister, I love you, tax the hell out us, because I am exempt anyway. I have aliases on a forum to try bully people into paying your clearly unjust tax"
Minister: "Thanks dv. I can always depend on you to peddle my s***e"
Tax Payer: "Why does your name tag say dx?"

Minister sneaks away into his publicly funded car and is driven away by his publicly funded driver.

goz83 · 06-03-2012 4:05pm

dvpower wrote: »

In the currency of this thread, that's 52 years of household charges.

Or 6.5 years at the average rate of €800 per year. Your calculations again "assumed" that the €100 charge would be the standing charge for 52 years. So, is rejuvenation of the economy worth just over 8 billion? Smaller price than what has already been thrown away. And people could actually spend money.

Besides, I don't think that's the negative equity figure, but i may be wrong. I think its more likely the full value of residential mortgages in Ireland at that time. Negative equity amounts would be nowhere near that figure if i am right.

dvpower · 06-03-2012 4:19pm

goz83 wrote: »

Or 6.5 years at the average rate of €800 per year. Your calculations again "assumed" that the €100 charge would be the standing charge for 52 years.

And you've just "assumed" that it at €800

goz83 wrote: »

So, is rejuvenation of the economy worth just over 8 billion?

Rejuvenate the economy? You've just blown it on a 7 seater foreign car.

goz83 wrote: »

Besides, I don't think that's the negative equity figure, but i may be wrong. I think its more likely the full value of residential mortgages in Ireland at that time. Negative equity amounts would be nowhere near that figure if i am right.

I went to the bother of doing the research for you and posting a link to the document - the least you could do is read it instead of assuming stuff.

The total outstanding balance of these mortgages exceeds the amount of equity they represent by €8.3 billion

goz83 · 06-03-2012 4:31pm

dvpower wrote: »

And you've just "assumed" that it at €800.

Whether you agree or not, I am confident that this would be the average, as do many on this forum and elsewhere, regardless of whether they are paying, or not. We're not all exempt like you. And yes, that's an assumption, but one I stand by.

dvpower wrote: »

Rejuvenate the economy? You've just blown it on a 7 seater foreign car..

Again, assuming that's I buy a new car, which was explained in previous post. Do I need to repeat myself? I assume you plenty of free time to look over my previous post.

dvpower wrote: »

I went to the bother of doing the research for you and posting a link to the document - the least you could do is read it instead of assuming stuff.

Awww thank you. No link though.

dvpower wrote: »

The total outstanding balance of these mortgages exceeds the amount of equity they represent by €8.3 billion

The quote says nothing about negative equity, so it is more likely in the context of full residential mortgage value. There is also a smaller possibility of the reference being made to mortgages that are in negative equity. That link would be great. Maybe you can research how to post a link too?

naoise80 · 06-03-2012 4:34pm

goz83 wrote: »

You pay for TD cars. So why not mine

We can only make decisions based on what is put before us. Bankers knew what was on the way and knew it was just about to pop and they on peddling us s***e. The government took on the bank debt on behalf of us and saddled us all with it. Who made the wrong decision here? Me for wanting to put a stable roof over the heads of my family in an ever increasing property market, which we were convinced would take a very long time to stabilise/burst. Or, the government for allowing us to be lead down the path of debt. I mean look at the Eircom shares situation. Just one other example of the government hanging us out to dry for the benefit of their banking buddies.

I wonder if your attitude will be the same when they raise the charge to circa €800 for services you are not receiving.

I can't believe the rubbish I'm reading here. How did the Eircom floatation benefit bankers?

I have paid the Household charge because
a) It's the law nad
b) I fully support a property based tax and understand that this is a precurser to some form of value based property tax.

goz83 · 06-03-2012 4:43pm

naoise80 wrote: »

I can't believe the rubbish I'm reading here. How did the Eircom floatation benefit bankers?

I have paid the Household charge because
a) It's the law nad
b) I fully support a property based tax and understand that this is a precurser to some form of value based property tax.

I cant use the letter "W" to replace "B". Bankers, gamblers, people who lie for profit. All in the same category. See the following for the story of Eircom shares and government prodding. http://www.rte.ie/tv/scannal/Eircom.html

Would you support the law if you were told you had to work for food and shelter and nothing else? Don't support something because it's the law....support it if you believe it's right. Supporting and obeying are two different things.

dvpower · 06-03-2012 4:44pm

goz83 wrote: »

We're not all exempt like you. And yes, that's an assumption, but one I stand by.

Your assumptions, as usual, are nonsense.

goz83 wrote: »

Again, assuming that's I buy a new car, which was explained in previous post. Do I need to repeat myself? I assume you plenty of free time to look over my previous post.

I'm not assuming you buy a new car. I'm assuming you buy a foreign car and unless you buy a 70 year old Shamrock convertible, you'll be buying a foreign car.
What do you call someone who wants hard working taxpayers to buy you a car - a sponger?

goz83 wrote: »

Awww thank you. No link though.

There was a link - post 3758 - pay attention.

goz83 wrote: »

The quote says nothing about negative equity, so it is more likely in the context of full residential mortgage value. There is also a smaller possibility of the reference being made to mortgages that are in negative equity. That link would be great. Maybe you can research how to post a link too?

Read the document I linked - read it slowly, then read it again.

goz83 wrote: »

Maybe you can research how to post a link too?

Open your eyes lad.

goz83 · 06-03-2012 4:59pm

dvpower wrote: »

Your assumptions, as usual, are nonsense.

And we have your word on this. Inspiring.

dvpower wrote: »

I'm not assuming you buy a new car. I'm assuming you buy a foreign car and unless you buy a 70 year old Shamrock convertible, you'll be buying a foreign car.

Well. Wouldn't the money on the foreign car already have gone to the foreign country before I decide to buy a second hand foreign car from a dealer, or private seller here? That's a senseless argument. Do you have a shamrock convertible? Do you have a car? Do you have a license? Did the tax payer pay for any of these from your dole money?[/QUOTE]

dvpower wrote: »

There was a link - post 3758 - pay attention.

I see there is a link, as referenced in your last post, but was not referred to in the previous post and only in the one before it. As you had written it, one would assume the link was supposed to be in the later post.

Ask Phil when he plans to drop the charge down to a tenner will you?

Slick50 · 06-03-2012 9:05pm

dvpower wrote: »

These things are perfectly consistent.
In my first post (selectively quoted) I said I wasn't making an arguement for a property tax - a simple statement of fact.
In my second (selectively quoted) post I say I agree with a property tax in principle, which I do.

What's with the nitpicking?

That's as clear as mud so! Your not arguing that a property tax is a good thing, except in principal. You certainly come across as arguing for a property tax.

You were "selectively quoted" because these two statements seem, to me, to be in complete conflict with each other. And they were what I was asking about. Were you miss quoted?

It's not nitpicking, it was seeking clarity.

dvpower · 06-03-2012 9:12pm

Slick50 wrote: »

That's as clear as mud so! Your not arguing that a property tax is a good thing, except in principal. You certainly come across as arguing for a property tax.

You were "selectively quoted" because these two statements seem, to me, to be in complete conflict with each other. And they were what I was asking about. Were you miss quoted?

It's not nitpicking, it was seeking clarity.

Well I hope my position on property tax is quite clear to you now.

demanufactured · 06-03-2012 9:54pm

Lads this is not a PROPERTY TAX.
They are portraying it as a "household charge".
Telling us that the money is going toward local services.....load of sh!te.....
The money is being used to pay off the governments debt.

Frank Black · 06-03-2012 10:30pm

demanufactured wrote: »

Lads this is not a PROPERTY TAX.
They are portraying it as a "household charge".
Telling us that the money is going toward local services.....load of sh!te.....
The money is being used to pay off the governments debt.

Sherlock Holmes has joined the thread.

Ghandee · 06-03-2012 10:34pm

black francis wrote: »

Sherlock Holmes has joined the thread.

Once again when the truth gets spoken, a member of the 'pro tax brigade' rears their head, and dishes out the insults.

Quite pathetic really.:rolleyes:

eth0 · 06-03-2012 10:51pm

I wonder where are these characters in real life, wanting to pay more tax and all this carry on? I havn't heard a good word uttered about the household charge outside of boards.

I'd be very naive to think that not the slightest amount of 'astroturfing' is done by mainstream Irish political parties.

mikom · 06-03-2012 11:13pm

eth0 wrote: »

I wonder where are these characters in real life, wanting to pay more tax and all this carry on?

Call centre in India probably, typing from a script as a government shill.

dxhound2005 · 06-03-2012 11:27pm

http://www.socialistparty.net/household-charge/861-build-mass-non-registration-by-st-patricks-day

St Patrick's Day is not too far away. CAHWT are set to proclaim a great victory when one million or more still have not paid. But using this fact to suggest that a majority won't pay by the deadline is a fallacious argument and does not take account of peoples approach to handing over money. There is no incentive for people to pay early so they will hold on as late as possible. We (the private property owning class usually despised by the Socialist Party) are generally a law abiding group and most people will not want to put themselves on the wrong side of the law. Especially when doing so will cost them more in the long run and CAHWT will not be around when this happens.

zumi · 09-03-2012 10:23pm

Anybody who believes its only 100 euro now, please think and look forward 10 years to when its 1500/yr or more. If you think it won't..... just look at other countries (US) where people have their houses taken and sold to pay for unpaid property tax while they're turfed out onto the street.
Pray you or any of your family members don't loose your job or fall ill and can't pay the tax, you'll be wishing you never paid that measley 100 euros.
If you rent and you think the property tax doesn't apply to you, your landlord won't take the hit he's goint to pass it on to you. Every rent in the country will be driven up to meet the extra payment.
Yes... its only 100 euro now, but you were warned.

zumi · 09-03-2012 10:23pm

Anybody who believes its only 100 euro now, please think and look forward 10 years to when its 1500/yr or more. If you think it won't..... just look at other countries (US) where people have their houses taken and sold to pay for unpaid property tax while they're turfed out onto the street.
Pray you or any of your family members don't loose your job or fall ill and can't pay the tax, you'll be wishing you never paid that measley 100 euros.
If you rent and you think the property tax doesn't apply to you, your landlord won't take the hit he's goint to pass it on to you. Every rent in the country will be driven up to meet the extra payment.
Yes... its only 100 euro now, but you were warned.

09-03-2012 10:51pm

zumi wrote: »

Anybody who believes its only 100 euro now, please think and look forward 10 years to when its 1500/yr or more. If you think it won't..... just look at other countries (US) where people have their houses taken and sold to pay for unpaid property tax while they're turfed out onto the street.
Pray you or any of your family members don't loose your job or fall ill and can't pay the tax, you'll be wishing you never paid that measley 100 euros.
If you rent and you think the property tax doesn't apply to you, your landlord won't take the hit he's goint to pass it on to you. Every rent in the country will be driven up to meet the extra payment.
Yes... its only 100 euro now, but you were warned.

Yer preaching to the choir!

firemansammie · 09-03-2012 10:55pm

Everyone who is saying its only 100 is crazy, ya thats all it is now but enough is enough, we (people who work, own there own home) are being robbed - lets punish the people who wanted to make a better life for their family. Tax the be jesus out of them, over charge them for everything. I for one have had enough, and am not paying the charge. How can we expect to get anywhere with a government as corrupt as what we have.

gurramok · 09-03-2012 11:02pm

Try paying said tax up north or in the UK. I'm hearing anecdotal of bleeding heart stories of people who say they cannot afford 100 quid a year yet spend that over a weekend in the pub. Our country is on her knees and yet there are selfish people who wish not to pay for services.
Looks like to me they prefer our country to default and make life worse for everyone.

firemansammie · 09-03-2012 11:06pm

At least up the north you are getting something for your money, here it is going to pay the bankers. Im not playing a bleeding heart, ya I probably could scrape together 100 but they might as well put their hand in my back pocket and take the 100 out cause we are getting nothing for our money and if people pay it will go up and up...

gurramok · 09-03-2012 11:10pm

firemansammie wrote: »

At least up the north you are getting something for your money, here it is going to pay the bankers. Im not playing a bleeding heart, ya I probably could scrape together 100 but they might as well put their hand in my back pocket and take the 100 out cause we are getting nothing for our money and if people pay it will go up and up...

Its to pay for the deficit not the bankers.

There are 2 issues facing the state, bank debt and the deficit. The latter is what the taxes are about. The former has been lobbed onto national debt(and yes its shoite and i agree)

Do you fancy paying a grand in tax on a house up north?

firemansammie · 09-03-2012 11:24pm

Totally agree it is ****, and understand that taxes have to be paid, but we are governed by a corrupt shower of f**ckers, this money is not going to the up keep of local services as they saw it is. The estate I live in has not been taken over by the council but the builders have gone bust. We have to pay 100 a year for our own services, grass cutting etc....not a hope am I paying another 100.
We will be paying more than a grand if we pay a 100 this year!!

gurramok · 09-03-2012 11:32pm

firemansammie wrote: »

Totally agree it is ****, and understand that taxes have to be paid, but we are governed by a corrupt shower of f**ckers, this money is not going to the up keep of local services as they saw it is. The estate I live in has not been taken over by the council but the builders have gone bust. We have to pay 100 a year for our own services, grass cutting etc....not a hope am I paying another 100.
We will be paying more than a grand if we pay a 100 this year!!

Ain't that the fault of FF? The present FG and Lab were elected by the electorate knowing there will be taxes levied to pay for the deficit.

Lone Stone · 09-03-2012 11:38pm

I dont plan on paying but had two utter moron's knock on the door today, with anti house hold charge leaflet's and when i asked them why they dont want to pay and how many people have they got to agree to not pay they went on some rant about it going to 100 today 1000 next year ! almost made me want to pay it.

Phill Ewinn · 10-03-2012 12:06am

Lone Stone wrote: »

I dont plan on paying but had two utter moron's knock on the door today, with anti house hold charge leaflet's and when i asked them why they dont want to pay and how many people have they got to agree to not pay they went on some rant about it going to 100 today 1000 next year ! almost made me want to pay it.

Pay mine too. That'll show 'em.

woodoo · 10-03-2012 12:11am

eth0 wrote: »

I wonder where are these characters in real life, wanting to pay more tax and all this carry on? I havn't heard a good word uttered about the household charge outside of boards.

The people agreeing with it are prob student types still living of mammy and daddy's money.

Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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