Meat is murder, tasty, tasty murder . . .

ItsAWindUp · 29-02-2012 10:39am

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Of course it is, Daisy has long days looking at Irish Sunsets, gets to have loads of kids which are taken away before they annoy her, gets her udders emptied twice a day & all the grass she can eat, where do I sign up.

Do you actually believe this?

rich.d.berry · 29-02-2012 11:12am

Veganism and vegetarianism appear to be moving in a religious direction:

The same fervour to reform and convert.
The same intolerance to other beliefs and lifestyles.
The same air of superiority.

You should all get together and start a church. I'm lead to believe that there is a lot of money to be made that way.

Rabidlamb · 29-02-2012 11:20am

rich.d.berry wrote: »

Veganism and vegetarianism appear to be moving in a religious direction:
The same fervour to reform and convert.

The same intolerance to other beliefs and lifestyles.

The same air of superiority.

You should all get together and start a church. I'm lead to believe that there is a lot of money to be made that way.

The greens are at it aswell, all competing for that Jesus void.
I've filled mine with couch time & golf.

ItsAWindUp · 29-02-2012 11:23am

rich.d.berry wrote: »

Veganism and vegetarianism appear to be moving in a religious direction:
The same fervour to reform and convert.

The same intolerance to other beliefs and lifestyles.

The same air of superiority.

You should all get together and start a church. I'm lead to believe that there is a lot of money to be made that way.

If you truly believe that you clearly know nothing about it

blatantrereg · 29-02-2012 11:48am

rich.d.berry wrote: »

Veganism and vegetarianism appear to be moving in a religious direction:
The same fervour to reform and convert.

The same intolerance to other beliefs and lifestyles.

The same air of superiority.

You should all get together and start a church. I'm lead to believe that there is a lot of money to be made that way.

You're describing the attitude of a lot of meat eaters towards vegetarians. This thread is a good example of it. In fact, your post conveys contempt for vegetarians and vegetarianism - exactly the attitude you are accusing them of.

Most of the time when vegetarians describe their views to meat eaters, it's in a discussion initiated by the meat eaters - like in this thread. It's more common for meat eaters to vocalise some weird issue with vegetarians than it is for vegetarians to push their beliefs on others.

rich.d.berry · 29-02-2012 11:59am

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

If you truly believe that you clearly know nothing about it

blatantrereg wrote: »

You're describing the attitude of a lot of meat eaters towards vegetarians. This thread is a good example of it. In fact, your post conveys contempt for vegetarians and vegetarianism - exactly the attitude you are accusing them of.

Most of the time when vegetarians describe their views to meat eaters, it's in a discussion initiated by the meat eaters - like in this thread. It's more common for meat eaters to vocalise some weird issue with vegetarians than it is for vegetarians to push their beliefs on others.

What about people like DurianRider then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KondNJGLE10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3r2HzcYus

ItsAWindUp · 29-02-2012 12:01pm

rich.d.berry wrote: »

What about people like DurianRider then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KondNJGLE10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3r2HzcYus

What about it?

blatantrereg · 29-02-2012 12:16pm

rich.d.berry wrote: »

What about people like DurianRider then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KondNJGLE10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3r2HzcYus

Never heard of him before. Watched the first vid you linked. I see no evidence of any of the traits you listed (which you ascribed to all vegetarians).

He comes across really well. He's not telling people off for eating meat. He's addressing a common preconception by demonstrating how physically fit he is after having been on a vegan diet for ten years. He's taking the opportunity to provide other information, regarding the link between animal foods and cancer.

That link with cancer is proven incidentally [outside the EU it is even more significant - the EU places restrictions on treating animals with growth hormones]. Have a look at the the rates of certain cancers between countries with high consumption of meat and dairy, and countries with low consumption of meat and dairy. There is a huge difference.

Anyway, really if you think he comes across in some sort of objectionable way in that video, then it's you demonstrating an intolerant attitude tbh.

rich.d.berry · 29-02-2012 12:18pm

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

What about it?

You should appoint him Pope, Primate, Chief Evangelist, or some such title, for the vegan cause.

PS. Why did you have to quote the links to the videos as well? Was watching that crap once not enough for you?

rich.d.berry · 29-02-2012 12:21pm

blatantrereg wrote: »

Never heard of him before. Watched the first vid you linked. I see no evidence of any of the traits you listed (which you ascribed to all vegetarians).

He comes across really well. He's not telling people off for eating meat. He's addressing a common preconception by demonstrating how physically fit he is after having been on a vegan diet for ten years. He's taking the opportunity to provide other information, regarding the link between animal foods and cancer.

That link with cancer is proven incidentally [outside the EU it is even more significant - the EU places restrictions on treating animals with growth hormones]. Have a look at the the rates of certain cancers between countries with high consumption of meat and dairy, and countries with low consumption of meat and dairy. There is a huge difference.

Anyway, really if you think he comes across in some sort of objectionable way in that video, then it's you demonstrating an intolerant attitude tbh.

What's the point of re-posting the videos when you quote someone FFS?

He is admitting to preaching to the unconverted in the first one and then in the second he is spouting crap about sebaceous cysts being caused by diet and posting the most disgusting footage he could find.

Feel free to search his YouTube channel for loads more of the same.

ItsAWindUp · 29-02-2012 12:23pm

rich.d.berry wrote: »

You should appoint him Pope, Primate, Chief Evangelist, or some such title, for the vegan cause.

PS. Why did you have to quote the links to the videos as well? Was watching that crap once not enough for you?

You are aware that it was YOU that posted the videos yeah? As for the part above that, what kind of nonsensical crap are you spouting?

ItsAWindUp · 29-02-2012 12:23pm

rich.d.berry wrote: »

What's the point of re-posting the videos when you quote someone FFS?

He is admitting to preaching to the unconverted in the first one and then in the second he is spouting crap about sebaceous cysts being caused by diet and posting the most disgusting footage he could find.

I still don't get the point you're trying to make?

leggit · 29-02-2012 12:29pm

mmmm..... meat

rich.d.berry · 29-02-2012 12:41pm

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

I still don't get the point you're trying to make?

Obviously your brain is starved of protein and the synapses are failing. Go get yourself a tofu burger and have a think about what he's doing in those videos. Try to connect the dots to religious fervour and intolerance.

Keela11 · 29-02-2012 12:43pm

rich.d.berry wrote: »

Veganism and vegetarianism appear to be moving in a religious direction:

The same fervour to reform and convert.

Well perhaps you're right. I think abusing animals is abominable and I'd like people to stop. I don't really see anything wrong with that.

The same intolerance to other beliefs and lifestyles.

This one is a joke right? Yes, I would 100% love to make all of my friends Veg*n. I would love to tell them all how much I dislike what they're doing. But I don't and I don't know any other veg*n who does. Yes, some people are preachy about their diet. Personally I think they should knwo better, but tbh I understand. It does get so annoying to become the laughing stock of every dinner table and not be able to offer any sort of retort becuase "God, vegetarians can't even take a joke." We can, but jokes get old

Because I'm such an intolerant bítch I went to a party in a 90% meat resturant the other day with a group of meat-eaters. What did I do when everybody else got a piece of dead animal? Nothing. I ate my food, ignored theirs and enjoyed my evening. I even put up with their "mmm...sure you don't want some of this lovely steak" crap, because I'm so intolerant.

The same air of superiority.

Actually to my great irritation I am one of the few veg*ns I've met who allows myself this indulgence. I think my self better than someone who eats meat just 'cause it tastes good the same way that most people (that I know anyway) think themselves better than someone who kicks puppies just 'cause it's fun.

Generally speaking it's meat-eaters who have the problem with vegetarians not the other way around.

ItsAWindUp · 29-02-2012 12:45pm

rich.d.berry wrote: »

Obviously your brain is starved of protein and the synapses are failing. Go get yourself a tofu burger and have a think about what he's doing in those videos. Try to connect the dots to religious fervour and intolerance.

I understand that you cannot rationally respond to any argument put before you, so you resort to petty insults. By the way, I do get enough protein, I just avoid that animal protein that causes heart attacks and strokes. Poor me eh?;)

Keela11 · 29-02-2012 12:50pm

rich.d.berry wrote: »

What's the point of re-posting the videos when you quote someone FFS?

He is admitting to preaching to the unconverted in the first one and then in the second he is spouting crap about sebaceous cysts being caused by diet and posting the most disgusting footage he could find.

Feel free to search his YouTube channel for loads more of the same.

Oh god! You've found a video of a vegan who's preachy and uses shock tactics?! WE MUST ALL BE MEMBER OF A SECRET CULT!

What about those new milk ads. "Obey your body" and all that rubbish. "Your body needs milk"...eh no. Clearly all milk drinkers are big into propaganda and having really odd fits.

ScumLord · 29-02-2012 12:51pm

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Yeah factory farming in US.

So what, you think its massively different over here?

It really is, Irish beef and dairy is mostly organic. I see the cattle in fields, not sheds on a daily basis. They have as good a life as any animal can have.

rich.d.berry · 29-02-2012 12:59pm

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

I understand that you cannot rationally respond to any argument put before you, so you resort to petty insults. By the way, I do get enough protein, I just avoid that animal protein that causes heart attacks and strokes. Poor me eh?;)

So your inane comments like "If you truly believe that you clearly know nothing about it" and "I still don't get the point you're trying to make?" somehow make your debating skills superior to mine?

I was asked to justify my statement and easily managed to produce video of a preachy, stuck-up, condescending know-it-all. I'd also post up video of my vegan brother if I had it. We never invite him to a meal anymore because he makes it so unpleasant for everyone. Even his kids avoid him. So, tell me again I don't know what I'm talking about!

Keela11 · 29-02-2012 1:02pm

ScumLord wrote: »

It really is, Irish beef and dairy is mostly organic. I see the cattle in fields, not sheds on a daily basis. They have as good a life as any animal can have.

I actually agree with this to an extent and think that some people should be more educated about the quality of life Irish cattle have, many are too quick to assume factory farming. But I certainly would not say that they have a very good quality of life. Even if they did the methods of slaughter are not humane and practices such as de-horning and castrating are still often done without aesthetic which is barbaric.

Also cattle aren't the only animal farmed here. Pig and chicken farming here doesn't differ greatly (if at all?) from the US. Pigs still spend their adult lives confined to spaces that don't even allow them to turn, which I find heart breaking

ItsAWindUp · 29-02-2012 1:06pm

rich.d.berry wrote: »

So your inane comments like "If you truly believe that you clearly know nothing about it" and "I still don't get the point you're trying to make?" somehow make your debating skills superior to mine?

I was asked to justify my statement and easily managed to produce video of a preachy, stuck-up, condescending know-it-all. I'd also post up video of my vegan brother if I had it. We never invite him to a meal anymore because he makes it so unpleasant for everyone. Even his kids avoid him. So, tell me again I don't know what I'm talking about!

You don't know what your talking about. You found ONE example of a vegan athlete who advises people on what to eat, and you claim that the rest of us non meat eaters are all like him and hold him up as our Messiah or something. My "inane" comments were in response to your idiotic stereotypical drival.

rich.d.berry · 29-02-2012 1:20pm

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

You don't know what your talking about. You found ONE example of a vegan athlete who advises people on what to eat, and you claim that the rest of us non meat eaters are all like him and hold him up as our Messiah or something. My "inane" comments were in response to your idiotic stereotypical drival.

You know what, I couldn't be bothered with your drivel anymore, you're obviously a wind-up artist and I refuse to be wound-up. I've read enough of your posts in this thread to see that you are incapable of engaging in debate.

I hope it all works out for you in the end.

ItsAWindUp · 29-02-2012 1:23pm

rich.d.berry wrote: »

You know what, I couldn't be bothered with your drivel anymore, you're obviously a wind-up artist and I refuse to be wound-up. I've read enough of your posts in this thread to see that you are incapable of engaging in debate.

I hope it all works out for you in the end.

AKA "I know I have lost the argument and now I will leave"

I hope it all works out for you in the end.

blatantrereg · 29-02-2012 1:24pm

rich.d.berry wrote: »

So your inane comments like "If you truly believe that you clearly know nothing about it" and "I still don't get the point you're trying to make?" somehow make your debating skills superior to mine?

I was asked to justify my statement and easily managed to produce video of a preachy, stuck-up, condescending know-it-all. I'd also post up video of my vegan brother if I had it. We never invite him to a meal anymore because he makes it so unpleasant for everyone. Even his kids avoid him. So, tell me again I don't know what I'm talking about!

I still think the first video is grand. Certainly your response to it shows more intolerance than I see in the video.
Maybe I'd see it in a different context if I watched more of his stuff.
Anyway, I'll do you the courtesy of refuting your assertion that all vegetarians are preachy etc, rather than dismissing it because it's insulting nonsense. Here are some famous vegetarians and vegans who are not well known for being vegan or vegetarian. Therefore they aren't using their fame as a platform to preach and push their ideology on the public at large. I mean surely Bill Clinton would have been legislating against meat consumption, if what you claim is true:

vegetarians:
Larry Mullen Jr
Cillian Murphy
Rob Zombie
Shania Twain
Reese Witherspoon
Forrest Whittaker
Hayden panettiere
Method Man
Philip Glass
Scott Adams
Spike milligan
George Harrison
Russell Brand
Damon Albarn

vegans:
Thom Yorke
André 3000
Bill Clinton
Chelsea Clinton
Alec Baldwin
Woody Harrelson
Prince
Venus Williams
Serena Williams

I would bet you're surprised by some of the names on those lists.

Logical Fallacy · 29-02-2012 1:33pm

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

I understand that you cannot rationally respond to any argument put before you, so you resort to petty insults. By the way, I do get enough protein, I just avoid that animal protein that causes heart attacks and strokes. Poor me eh?;)

How does animal protein cause heart attacks and strokes?

No real difference between amino acids at the end of the day.

Please expand on your point as i am really interested.

ScumLord · 29-02-2012 1:42pm

Keela11 wrote: »

But I certainly would not say that they have a very good quality of life. Even if they did the methods of slaughter are not humane and practices such as de-horning and castrating are still often done without aesthetic which is barbaric.

Those things are done for a reason and it's mostly to do with the health of the cattle. De horning stops them doing serious damage to each other. Any pain is temporary and compared to the damage they could do to each other, even accidentally it's worth doing. Castration is for the health of the farmers bank balance more so, but even at that if the farmer has a healthy bank balance it translates into he can afford to keep his heard healthy. Farmers aren't ogres, they care greatly about their animals in my experience. I've seen them crying over the loss of sheep to foxes.

Also cattle aren't the only animal farmed here. Pig and chicken farming here doesn't differ greatly (if at all?) from the US. Pigs still spend their adult lives confined to spaces that don't even allow them to turn, which I find heart breaking

Completely agree, I'm against intensive farming. I think it should be ruled out and we should all be willing to pay more for our meat.

rich.d.berry · 29-02-2012 1:45pm

blatantrereg wrote: »

I would bet you're surprised by some of the names on those lists.

Not at all. That would be like saying that it should surprise me that not all Christians are like Mother Theresa. I expect variety in personality, it makes life interesting.

blatantrereg wrote: »

Anyway, I'll do you the courtesy of refuting your assertion...

Thank you.

blatantrereg wrote: »

Anyway, I'll do you the courtesy of refuting your assertion that all vegetarians are preachy etc, rather than dismissing it because it's insulting nonsense. Here are some famous vegetarians and vegans whom are not well known for being vegan or vegetarian. Therefore they aren't using their fame as a platform to preach and push their ideology on the public at large. I mean surely Bill Clinton would have been legislating against meat consumption, if what you claim is true:

At no point was that my assertion. I never stated that "all" vegetarians are preachy. What I said is that the vegan and vegetarian movements are exhibiting traits that resemble a religious movement.

That statement should not offend you personally, it was never meant to.

--Kaiser-- · 29-02-2012 1:52pm

Keela11 wrote: »

Even if they did the methods of slaughter are not humane and practices such as de-horning and castrating are still often done without aesthetic which is barbaric.

Neither of these practices is particularly painful to cattle. Slaughtering is about as humane a death as you can get.
You are talking out of your hole

Keela11 · 29-02-2012 2:25pm

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Neither of these practices is particularly painful to cattle. Slaughtering is about as humane a death as you can get.
You are talking out of your hole

How painful is particularly painful? I saw both practices being done as a child and it horrified me. The farmer in question even told me it hurt (when I asked why they were so distressed...in regards to de-horning this is), perhaps he was talking through his hole. All I know is that if a practice looks cruel it more often than not is.

No. I disagree, in the grand scheme of things, maybe. The slaughtering of cattle is better than chickens for example. But I guess it would be difficult for me to accept any method of slaughter as humane tbh.

ScumLord · 29-02-2012 2:35pm

Keela11 wrote: »

No. I disagree, in the grand scheme of things, maybe. The slaughtering of cattle is better than chickens for example. But I guess it would be difficult for me to accept any method of slaughter as humane tbh.

But is is humane, our method of killing is done with the most respect for animals. We try our best to give them the best death possible, that is the very definition of a humane death. If it wasn't a humane death we'd just shot them once and wait for them to bleed out, other animals that kill quickly do so to protect themselves from injury not to reduce the suffering of their prey. Comparing our method of killing to any other animal you'll quickly see our prey get a much, much, much better deal.

You might not like the simple fact that things have to die so that you can live but it's a fundamental part of nature. Living things will die so you can live. Respect and morals are things that only exist inside the heads of people, they usually don't work at all in the real world and no wild animal would return the respect you give them.

Meat is murder, tasty, tasty murder . . .

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