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15 year old boy who had consensual sex with 14 year old girl faces 5 years in prison

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    #272
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    I don't honestly see why girls should be any less responsible than boys for their choices.

    Nor do I see why underage sex, to a point, should be a crime.

    If two 15 or 16 year olds want to mess around I can't see a problem to be honest as long as they are sensible and careful.


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    #273
    Ectoplasm
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭Ectoplasm


    It's a moronic law and just goes to show (again) how horrendously outdated our constitution is. I really hope that this does go to the European Court. Sad as it is, our own politicians seem to need that kind of kick in the rear in order to do anything. :(


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    #274
    Pacifist Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Pacifist Pigeon


    In Irish law, males are discriminated against more than females. Fact.

    Take fathers' rights as another nice example.


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    #275
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    I don't honestly see why girls should be any less responsible than boys for their choices.

    Nor do I see why underage sex, to a point, should be a crime.

    If two 15 or 16 year olds want to mess around I can't see a problem to be honest as long as they are sensible and careful


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    #276
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I don't honestly see why girls should be any less responsible than boys for their choices.

    Nor do I see why underage sex, to a point, should be a crime.

    If two 15 or 16 year olds want to mess around I can't see a problem to be honest as long as they are sensible and careful.
    I think the age of consent should be lowered. Change of attitude needed also - recognition that girls can be sexually forthright too, but there is an inbuilt socio-cultural notion that the girl is violated and to be protected, and the guy is the violator.


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    #277
    Pacifist Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Pacifist Pigeon


    Absolutely ridiculous. I'm sure a large percentage of people of Ireland have had sex under the age of 17 with someone their age. I know many of my friends going to school did (I wasn't so lucky) - apparently they're all sex offenders, put into the same class as rapists and child abusers. This abhorrent law it reminiscent of sharia law. Meanwhile, pedophile priests around the country are getting off scot free.

    Yes folks, a large percentage of you are just as liable for criminal prosecution as any pedophile or rapist.


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    #278
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    IrishEyes19 wrote: »
    14/15 is way too young IMO, don't think people that age are emotionally equipped for sex yet, but that's just my view on it.

    but it's absolutely horrendous that a law like this could exist to prosecute this boy for this. Completely wrong.
    I think the age of consent should be lowered to 15 - not because I think sex at that age should be encouraged but because it is happening quite a bit, and kids this age are sexual beings. Therefore measures should be in place for them to have protected sex.
    Shagging at 15 isn't ideal IMO but shagging at 15 accompanied by STDs/pregnancy is obviously far worse.


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    #279
    up for anything
    Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭up for anything


    Pacifist Pigeon wrote: »
    In Irish law, males are discriminated against more than females. Fact.

    Take fathers' rights as another nice example.

    Well then get out there and do something about it.


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    #280
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,824 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    What happens if 2 15 year old girls have sex? No-one is accountable???

    "PRETEEN LESBIAN SEX OK IN IRELAND! GIGGITY!"


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    #281
    Pacifist Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Pacifist Pigeon


    up for anything wrote: »
    Well then get out there and do something about it.

    What should be call ourselves, something quirky and controversial. How about masculists (as opposed to feminists)?


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    #282
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    EMF2010 wrote: »
    It's a moronic law and just goes to show (again) how horrendously outdated our constitution is. I really hope that this does go to the European Court. Sad as it is, our own politicians seem to need that kind of kick in the rear in order to do anything. :(

    It's been my honest opinion that we don't have a functioning judicial system in this country. As was outlined here, we don't need European courts what we need is judges like him sacked*.


    *maybe deported also*


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    #283
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Dudess wrote: »
    I think the age of consent should be lowered to 15 - not because I think sex at that age should be encouraged but because it is happening quite a bit, and kids this age are sexual beings. Therefore measures should be in place for them to have protected sex.
    Shagging at 15 isn't ideal IMO but shagging at 15 accompanied by STDs/pregnancy is obviously far worse.

    Then this case would be cut-and-dried.


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    #284
    aaronjumper
    Registered Users Posts: 14,128 ✭✭✭✭aaronjumper


    Dudess wrote: »
    I think the age of consent should be lowered to 15 - not because I think sex at that age should be encouraged but because it is happening quite a bit, and kids this age are sexual beings. Therefore measures should be in place for them to have protected sex.
    Shagging at 15 isn't ideal IMO but shagging at 15 accompanied by STDs/pregnancy is obviously far worse.

    What about the pervy older people? I've seen couples where one partner is a good bit older. This would just make it easier for them to get away with it. Maybe just some common sense among the courts. Throw out the cases where people near the same age are doing it.


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    #285
    up for anything
    Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭up for anything


    Pacifist Pigeon wrote: »
    What should be call ourselves, something quirky and controversial. How about masculists (as opposed to feminists)?

    Doesn't really matter what you call yourselves just so long as you actually get out there and do something about the injustices you perceive to exist. If you're asking me though masculists doesn't have a good ring to it. I'd pick something else if I were you.


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    #286
    BornToKill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭BornToKill


    strobe wrote: »
    ECHR
    ARTICLE 14

    The enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set forth in this Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status.

    UNDHR
    Article 7.

    All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

    Article 2.

    Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

    =====
    =====

    Cunts.

    I don't think that either the ECHR or the UNDHR lists engaging in sexual activity with a minor as a 'right' or a 'freedom'. Therefore the issue of discrimation does not arise in these circumstances.

    I also can't see why so many people consider this judgment means a referdum is now necessary. Since the Supreme Court has upheld the constitutionality of the statute surely that implies that a referendum to propose a change to the constitution is not necessary?


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    #287
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Seasoft wrote: »
    This article http://www.herald.ie/news/girl-15-becomes-a-mum-for-second-time-3029300.html puts this judgement in some context.

    If 10 under 16s give birth every month, where are the 10 similar prosecutions every month? I suspect that neither the DPP nor the Gardai really want to prosecute these peer sex cases, but some pressure was applied in this instance.

    I heard someone on the radio earlier explaining that to criminalize underage sex for girls would discourage them from accessing services (emergency family planning et al) if they thought they were pregnant, as they'd be worried they would be in trouble with the authorities. So it was done from the approach of 'protection for the girl' in that sense, and that was the reasoning behind it.

    I think the DPP has better things to be doing than pursuing these types of cases. Perhaps one of those "Spirit of the Law" versus "the letter of the law" things.


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    #288
    Pacifist Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Pacifist Pigeon


    up for anything wrote: »
    Doesn't really matter what you call yourselves just so long as you actually get out there and do something about the injustices you perceive to exist. If you're asking me though masculists doesn't have a good ring to it. I'd pick something else if I were you.

    What about "MAN POWER!"


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    #289
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    BornToKill wrote: »
    I don't think that either the ECHR or the UNDHR lists engaging in sexual activity with a minor as a 'right' or a 'freedom'. Therefore the issue of discrimation does not arise in these circumstances.

    The discrimination arises when two people engage in the exact same activity (a crime in this instance and one that should not be in my personal opinion) but one is punished and the other is not. The basis for that decision being one is a male and one is a female. It's discrimination due to gender.

    Discrimination due to gender is listed in both as prohibited.
    I also can't see why so many people consider this judgment means a referdum is now necessary. Since the Supreme Court has upheld the constitutionality of the statute surely that implies that a referendum to propose a change to the constitution is not necessary?

    The fact that people feel a change to the constitution is required to make this law unconstitutional is the reason a referendum to change the constitution is required.

    For instance, before the Twenty First amendment to the constitution it was legal to sentence someone to the death penalty. We decided we didn't want it to be legal or constitutional so we amended the constitution after a referendum to effect this change.

    Same deal. If people feel the current law and the constitutionality that supports it are unwanted and unwarranted we can hold a referendum to amend the constitution and therefore strike the law.

    {I must once again stress that I'm no fancy big town lawyer and if I'm mistaken on any of this stuff I invite anyone to explain why to me}.


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    #290
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    As far as I know he is to be placed on the sex offenders list.
    tigger123 wrote: »
    I heard someone on the radio earlier explaining that to criminalize underage sex for girls would discourage them from accessing services (emergency family planning et al) if they thought they were pregnant, as they'd be worried they would be in trouble with the authorities. So it was done from the approach of 'protection for the girl' in that sense, and that was the reasoning behind it.

    I think the DPP has better things to be doing than pursuing these types of cases. Perhaps one of those "Spirit of the Law" versus "the letter of the law" things.


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    #291
    BornToKill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭BornToKill


    strobe wrote: »
    Discrimination due to gender is listed in both as prohibited

    Yes, I agree it is. But only in relation to rights and freedoms under the convention. Having sex with a minor is not a right under either the European Convention on Human Rights or the UN Declaration on Human Rights.


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    #292
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    As far as I know he is to be placed on the sex offenders list.
    Sweet Jesus! :eek:


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    #293
    up for anything
    Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭up for anything


    Pacifist Pigeon wrote: »
    What about "MAN POWER!"

    That definitely didn't work for the first crowd who used it, so maybe not. Anyhow you're wasting valuable time on inessential branding concepts - get out there and protest.


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    #294
    Pacifist Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Pacifist Pigeon


    up for anything wrote: »
    That definitely didn't work for the first crowd who used it, so maybe not. Anyhow you're wasting valuable time on inessential branding concepts - get out there and protest.

    I can't. The woman has locked me up at home where I'm forced to undergo degrading sexually objectifying acts.


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    #295
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    tigger123 wrote: »
    I heard someone on the radio earlier explaining that to criminalize underage sex for girls would discourage them from accessing services (emergency family planning et al) if they thought they were pregnant, as they'd be worried they would be in trouble with the authorities. So it was done from the approach of 'protection for the girl' in that sense, and that was the reasoning behind it.

    I can understand that but drs do look to thier patients best interest and they do.

    tigger123 wrote: »
    I think the DPP has better things to be doing than pursuing these types of cases. Perhaps one of those "Spirit of the Law" versus "the letter of the law" things.

    Well someone had to go and make a report to the garda and legally the girls next of kin as she is a minor has to do it and that her father.

    If she was a hostile witness and refused to tell the garda or the DPP anything then the case would not have gotten to court. So her family would have had to have taken her to a dr and the garda and would have pressed charges on her behalf and kept pressure on for the case to get to court.

    They were prolly freaked out that she was having sex and anal sex and are looking for someone to blame.


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    #296
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Sharrow wrote: »
    I can understand that but drs do look to thier patients best interest and they do.

    But that's assuming she will approach a doctor in the first place, which she may not if she thinks she's broken the law.

    BTW, I'm not defending it, just passing on a point of view. I'd love to know how other EU States handle this.


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    #297
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Pacifist Pigeon wrote: »
    What about "MAN POWER!"
    Too gay.


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    #298
    Pacifist Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Pacifist Pigeon


    Dudess wrote: »
    Too gay.

    Explains a lot.


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    #299
    Demonique
    Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Demonique


    What happens if a 16 year old girl has sex with a 14 year old boy?


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    #300
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Demonique wrote: »
    What happens if a 16 year old girl has sex with a 14 year old boy?

    People say "niccce".


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    #301
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    BornToKill wrote: »
    Yes, I agree it is. But only in relation to rights and freedoms under the convention. Having sex with a minor is not a right under either the European Convention on Human Rights or the UN Declaration on Human Rights.

    But Article 7 is one of the rights and freedoms granted under the UN Declaration of human rights.

    'without any discrimination to equal protection of the law.' The fact that under age males are discriminated against to the degree that they are not granted the same protection of the law as under age females is contrary to that article and others.


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