The question of parents with young children in public

stovelid · 21-05-2011 10:07am

Kids shouldn't be in pubs in the evening full stop. Unless it's a function room or something, it's depressing and rude to other adults. And there should be plenty of places where everybody can escape from children for drinks and food, even people with children.

That said, it would be nice if there were more places you could bring kids in town during the day without feeling like you're disturbing people as they're actually far and few between.

It's also a bit remiss to sit in one of the few places that's clearly a family friendly type place and put your eyes to heaven if kids are beside your table (excluding obvious bratty or out of control kids of course) as there are plenty of places you can go that won't have kids there. I myself had to have a word with some student mong type recently on the subject when he was rolling his eyes in a theatrical fashion akin to a seizure.

As for public space that are non-negotiable like public transport: nobody likes crying kids on public transport or other such places but it's just part of life and something I try to ignore. Whatever you're going through, it's worse for the parent - excluding out of control kids and brats, I just mean normal kids crying or kicking off which they are all wont to do.

AckwelFoley · 21-05-2011 10:11am

Zebra3 wrote: »

What a steaming pile of dung. There are occasions and places that are for adults. Same for families.

I don't want kids young kids being in pubs late at night when people are drinking, letting their hair down, and discussing adult issues.

Likewise I'd be appalled at adults talking in public places during the day in front of kids about sexual conquests or how great drugs are.

It's simple common sense. :rolleyes:

Pile of dung you say? Where did i mention Pubs? Thats illegal to have a child in a pub past 8 is it? I dont agree with children in a pub full stop

Adults in public places talking about sex? Where exactly do adults talk about sex in a public place? The Art Gallery? You might be suprised, but i dont talk to my missus about the hammering she took in the bed last night, while having breakfast in front of the child.. sex talk is between adults, private place or public place

AckwelFoley · 21-05-2011 10:13am

The King of Moo wrote: »

.

Also: the cinema? That's the worst place to bring kids!! It's based entirely on people being silent to enjoy it properly. If you've got a baby bring it to a special parent-and-baby screening. If they're older then tell them to be quiet and respect the people around them trying to enjoy the film.

I love the cinema, if iwant to see shrek im not going to watch it at the 1pm screening.. guess whos going to be there..

I'll go to the later screening when the adults will be there

amdublin · 21-05-2011 10:14am

snyper wrote: »

This problem is something caused by our celtic tigerness that wont fcuk off.

The "sex and the city" life that many people want .

Ok so you're at an art gallery what the fcuk do you need your ears to look at a painting?

Ok, so from this thread and others ive read in AH ive established the following list of places you cannot bring a child

Art gallery - you cant hear the paintings

Cinema - disturbance

Resturant - you cant hear your sandwich

The Park - you cant hear the birds chirp..hey..i got a tip..take off your fcuking ipod when u jog

The seaside - blocks the sun, leaving only the hole in the ozone for you to enjoy + they make noise

The doctors - They make noise there too.. and im sick , somone please cry me a river

School - Yup cant bring them there either

Holidays - Parents are not allowed holidays - they have children to look after

Shopping - Pretty much the same reason as all of the above.

So in essance, rather than the usual ol load of bollox, just admit if you can that you hate children. Thats the first step. The second step is to come to the realisation that the world does not revolve around you. It will be those children that will be paying for your generation to have their arses wiped and nappies changed when you are too old to do it.. and you dont have family of your own because ... you hated children for too long and then when you wantwed them you were too old to have them

I don't hate children

I hate noise pollution. And yes that includes children bawling their heads off because they are bored off their mind of being dragged around art galleries.

Why would you do that to a child?

Do you hate children that you would do that them?

AckwelFoley · 21-05-2011 10:15am

amdublin wrote: »

I don't hate children

I hate noise pollution. And yes that includes children bawling their heads off because they are bored off their mind of being dragged around art galleries.

Why would you do that to a child?

Do you hate children that you would do that them?

Do you have children?

amdublin · 21-05-2011 10:16am

snyper wrote: »

Do you have children?

Yes.

Do you?

AckwelFoley · 21-05-2011 10:18am

amdublin wrote: »

Yes.

Do you?

Yes, we do.

How do you manage to keep a child entertained 24/7?

stovelid · 21-05-2011 10:18am

RachaelVO wrote: »

I have to point out that my kids are 2 and 4, so no one can say it's a toddler tantrum thing, that's horse sh1t. If my 2 year old starts being a pain in the bo11ox, he is taken out of the situation.

I think you're playing to the crowd here a bit in fairness.

Anybody would endeavour to take a child out of a public situation if they're having a tantrum but even in the time it takes to leave the place, you get plenty of rolled eyes and not in my day tuts.

Plus I assume if your kids cry on a bus or plane, you just walk home or parachute out or something? Or if you're queuing in the bank or somewhere else for some essential purpose, you just walk out?

amdublin · 21-05-2011 10:20am

snyper wrote: »

Yes, we do.

How do you manage to keep a child entertained 24/7?

God we'll be here all night if I I start my list!

But considering the original post here is one thing I do: I bring them to places that are entertaining and stimulating. Eg. Playgrounds.

Are you finding it difficult keeping your child(ren) entertained?

amdublin · 21-05-2011 10:23am

stovelid wrote: »

I think you're playing to the crowd here a bit in fairness.

Anybody would endeavour to take a child out of a public situation if they're having a tantrum but even in the time it takes to leave the place, you get plenty of rolled eyes and not in my day tuts.

No! No you don't!

You get plenty of expressions of empathy and looks of "fair play to you" and looks of "thank you".

Unless (s)he has bawled for ten mins and you then eventually decide to remove him/her.

Guys!! This is not difficult!!!

CK2010 · 21-05-2011 10:25am

stovelid wrote: »

Anybody would endeavour to take a child out of a public situation if they're having a tantrum but even in the time it takes to leave the place, you get plenty of rolled eyes and not in my day tuts.

+1.

the first time my child had a proper full blown tantrum was in tayto park, she was 3. she wouldnt eat her dinner, we told her she couldnt go to the playground if she didnt finish it, she didnt like that and she kept stamping her feet, crying etc. we told her we leaving the park- she screamed. we had to carry her out literally kicking and screaming while everybody stared at us 'young welfare scrounging parents' :rolleyes: they probably thought it was a typical regular occurance for us. doesnt matter that it was the first time in three years that she acted like that and we were doing the proper thing by punishing her actions.

stovelid · 21-05-2011 10:26am

amdublin wrote: »

No! No you don't!
You get plenty of expressions of empathy and looks of "fair play to you" and looks of "thank you".

I'd rather you didn't tell me what I do and do not see.

I have no axe to grind here. I agree with some of the comments on both sides.

Quit it. Your tone is incredibly annoying.

amdublin · 21-05-2011 10:26am

CK2010 wrote: »

+1.

the first time my child had a proper full blown tantrum was in tayto park, she was 3. she wouldnt eat her dinner, we told her she couldnt go to the playground if she didnt finish it, she didnt like that and she kept stamping her feet, crying etc. we told her we leaving the park- she screamed. we had to carry her out literally kicking and screaming while everybody stared at us 'young welfare scrounging parents' :rolleyes: they probably thought it was a typical regular occurance for us. doesnt matter that it was the first time in three years that she acted like that and we were doing the proper thing by punishing her actions.

I think you are playing to the crowd here.

You were doing the right thing by removing the noise pollution so I cannot see how you thought people were unhappy with you

amdublin · 21-05-2011 10:28am

stovelid wrote: »

I'd rather you didn't tell me what I do and do not see.

I have no axe to grind here. I agree with some of the comments on both sides.

Quit it. Your tone is incredibly annoying.

Eh I used the exact phrase you used ie "you get"

Please dont tell me to quit. I'd rather you didn't tell me what I can or can't do.

CK2010 · 21-05-2011 10:29am

amdublin wrote: »

I think you are playing to the crowd here.

You were doing the right thing by removing the noise pollution so I cannot see how you thought people were unhappy with you

playing to what crowd exactly?

people make it very clear how they feel when your child is acting up. this- :rolleyes: -springs to mind. looks of 'my child would never dream of doing that'. looks that il admit giving to parents who dont control their children. it wasnt me thinking they were unhappy,it was me knowing they were judging.

AckwelFoley · 21-05-2011 10:30am

amdublin wrote: »

Are you finding it difficult keeping your child(ren) entertained?

No fourtunatley, as we live where there are plenty of other kids and as they say there is not better entertainment for children than other children.

My issue is - As a parent, the time you have for yourself outside is limited and i dont agree with screaming kids in resturants or screaming kids in art galleries, but to be honest, hand on heart i think most people that complain about this just dont wantr children there in the first place.

Do i go to these places with out lad - no, but its the attitude of the neysayers that irks me

amdublin · 21-05-2011 10:33am

snyper wrote: »

No fourtunatley, as we live where there are plenty of other kids and as they say there is not better entertainment for children than other children.

My issue is - As a parent, the time you have for yourself outside is limited and i dont agree with screaming kids in resturants or screaming kids in art galleries, but to be honest, hand on heart i think most people that complain about this just dont wantr children there in the first place.

Do i go to these places with out lad - no, but its the attitude of the neysayers that irks me

Hmmm. I disagree.

I think people welcome children.....as long as it does not interfere with their art gallery/restaurant experience......which unfortunately tends to happen.....so for me I don't inflict my Childs bawling on others.......and equally a boring adult environment on my child.

gosuckonalemon · 21-05-2011 10:38am

OP has a point to certain extent.

The one thing that pisses me off is when parents bring their babies to Electric Picnic, using them as little more than a fashion accessory.

Whatever about bringing 6/7/8 year olds who have some idea of what's going on around them, to bring 6-12 month old babies to a music festival where most people are pissed and off their heads is little more than child abuse.

RachaelVO · 21-05-2011 10:40am

stovelid wrote: »

I think you're playing to the crowd here a bit in fairness.

Anybody would endeavour to take a child out of a public situation if they're having a tantrum but even in the time it takes to leave the place, you get plenty of rolled eyes and not in my day tuts.

Plus I assume if your kids cry on a bus or plane, you just walk home or parachute out or something? Or if you're queuing in the bank or somewhere else for some essential purpose, you just walk out?

Playing to the crowd??? NO!!! (same accusation could easily be leveled right back atcha)

NO THEY DON'T, You may (I don't know if you have kids or not), I most certainly do, however I've seen people just stand there trying to reason with a child, then bribery ensues, and during that time people are p1ssed off listening to a child not their responsiblity! I've seen this more than a parent taking their child out of the situation!

I have left trolleys with shopping in them. They have never been in a bar (not even a hotel bar), they've been in child friendly restaurants only. They don't whinge on the buses or on the plane, basically cos they know better. You can do the Time Outs anywhere, despite what people think. I've done it MANY times.

Now to be fair to my kids, they are Street Angels House Devils! No doubt about that, there are times I would cheerfully choke the pair of them, however the thing most parents tend to forget, is that if you are interacting with your kids, talking to them, listening to them, or for example on a plane I draw and read with my kids, tantrums are a whole lot less likely. I rarely witness mine have tantrums in public, in fact I'm pretty sure it was last summer I seen my then 18month old son have one.

Tantrums are mostly gonna happen because parents think that their children should understand the concept of time and patience, and therefore exercise reason. If you keep them occupied and entertained and give them the attention they NEED they won't make a holy show of ya.

I don't take them anywhere they are going to be a pain in the ars3. I don't want to be discipling my kids all the time, I want them to have fun, so the golden rule is don't take them anywhere not age appropriate, and don't expect them to behave like adults and for them to exercise reason, they don't have any!

AckwelFoley · 21-05-2011 10:41am

amdublin wrote: »

Hmmm. I disagree.

I think people welcome children.....as long as it does not interfere with their art gallery/restaurant experience......which unfortunately tends to happen.....so for me I don't inflict my Childs bawling on others.......and equally a boring adult environment on my child.

if i go to a resturant a 1pm i expect children to be there and i do expect parents to have reasonable control over them and put their prams where others wont trip over them, on the other hand if i want romance and a child free occasion i go later on in the evening

Give and take, and a little understanding from BOTH sides

amdublin · 21-05-2011 10:46am

snyper wrote: »

if i go to a resturant a 1pm i expect children to be there and i do expect parents to have reasonable control over them and put their prams where others wont trip over them, on the other hand if i want romance and a child free occasion i go later on in the evening

Give and take, and a little understanding from BOTH sides

I agree.

But the bolded items above simply do not occur.....a lot! Why I don't know. It's not rocket science.

I blame the parents :mad:

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 10:47am

RachaelVO wrote: »

I am a parent, and I agree with ya OP!

I wouldn't dream of inflicting my children on other people. Of course we do take them out, but only to places that are child appropriate. Even when we are in the airport or on public transport, they behave themselves, because they are made do what they are told.

So when they were in their pram like the OP was talking about, and crying, one command and they stopped crying?

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 10:50am

snyper wrote: »

Give and take, and a little understanding from BOTH sides

Sometimes you have to have experienced both sides to be more understanding. I wonder has the OP experienced only one side?

RachaelVO · 21-05-2011 10:52am

robbie7730 wrote: »

So when they were in their pram like the OP was talking about, and crying, one command and they stopped crying?

So picking them up and giving them a cuddle to stop them crying or feeding them cos they might have been hungry when they were babies wouldn't have entered my mind at all... neither would have playing with them and entertaining them when they were a bit bigger...

No, cos I like to shout at them and tell them to shut the fcuk up... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The King of Moo · 21-05-2011 10:52am

RachaelVO wrote: »

Playing to the crowd??? NO!!! (same accusation could easily be leveled right back atcha)

NO THEY DON'T, You may (I don't know if you have kids or not), I most certainly do, however I've seen people just stand there trying to reason with a child, then bribery ensues, and during that time people are p1ssed off listening to a child not their responsiblity! I've seen this more than a parent taking their child out of the situation!

I have left trolleys with shopping in them. They have never been in a bar (not even a hotel bar), they've been in child friendly restaurants only. They don't whinge on the buses or on the plane, basically cos they know better. You can do the Time Outs anywhere, despite what people think. I've done it MANY times.

Now to be fair to my kids, they are Street Angels House Devils! No doubt about that, there are times I would cheerfully choke the pair of them, however the thing most parents tend to forget, is that if you are interacting with your kids, talking to them, listening to them, or for example on a plane I draw and read with my kids, tantrums are a whole lot less likely. I rarely witness mine have tantrums in public, in fact I'm pretty sure it was last summer I seen my then 18month old son have one.

Tantrums are mostly gonna happen because parents think that their children should understand the concept of time and patience, and therefore exercise reason. If you keep them occupied and entertained and give them the attention they NEED they won't make a holy show of ya.

I don't take them anywhere they are going to be a pain in the ars3. I don't want to be discipling my kids all the time, I want them to have fun, so the golden rule is don't take them anywhere not age appropriate, and don't expect them to behave like adults and for them to exercise reason, they don't have any!

+1
People thinking very young children can exercise reason is such a common mistake today.
I remember a few years ago there was a young girl, about 3 I'd say, running around the place at the airport, and her mother was standing in place saying "Please (little girl's name), I need to be able to trust you!"
The girl hadn't a clue what she was saying and just kept running around!
It was quite sad as she seemed like a nice little girl, but she just wasn't being taught how to behave around others in the way a child should be.

Callan57 · 21-05-2011 10:55am

Rachiee wrote: »

I absolutely adore children but it is precisely that reason why I agree with the op, it is unfair to bring children places where they cannot be stimulated the only reason parents do it is pure selfishness, they want to do such and such and cant get a baby sitter so they just do it anyway, either that or pure ignorance as to what activities are beneficial for children.. parenting unfortunately does not come with a manual.

Although I would think that parenting is extremely demanding and so can understand why people make selfish decisions sometimes

Couldn't agree with you more. Children misbehaving is usually because they are utterly bored and/or overtired & parents put their own entertainment before the interests of their children. When I see parents dragging bored, tired and overwrought children around department stores or supermarkets I often feel like asking why they bothered having children if they are such an inconvenience to their lifestyle.

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 10:55am

RachaelVO wrote: »

So picking them up and giving them a cuddle to stop them crying or feeding them cos they might have been hungry when they were babies wouldn't have entered my mind at all... neither would have playing with them and entertaining them when they were a bit bigger...

No, cos I like to shout at them and tell them to shut the fcuk up... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

My point was, at times, nothing will stop them crying, so unless people are to hide themselves away from all society until the kids are 10, these things will happen.

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 11:01am

Callan57 wrote: »

Couldn't agree with you more. Children misbehaving is usually because they are utterly bored and/or overtired & parents put their own entertainment before the interests of their children. When I see parents dragging bored, tired and overwrought children around department stores or supermarkets I often feel like asking why they bothered having children if they are such an inconvenience to their lifestyle.

So if there is a risk you may ever have to go to tesco, and there is a possibility you may on occasion have to bring any kids you may have, you best not have any so? Maybe you should go ask them why they had kids, that at least will amuse other shoppers to the likely reaction that results.

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 11:11am

gosuckonalemon wrote: »

OP has a point to certain extent.

The one thing that pisses me off is when parents bring their babies to Electric Picnic, using them as little more than a fashion accessory.

Whatever about bringing 6/7/8 year olds who have some idea of what's going on around them, to bring 6-12 month old babies to a music festival where most people are pissed and off their heads is little more than child abuse.

That is a bit silly alright.

RachaelVO · 21-05-2011 11:15am

robbie7730 wrote: »

My point was, at times, nothing will stop them crying, so unless people are to hide themselves away from all society until the kids are 10, these things will happen.

Actually, that's not true! With toddler, they need to be entertained and looked after. However there is a technique called swaddle and soothe, it works from new born up, in approximately 30 seconds.

When a baby is getting hysterical, all they can hear is their own crying, and their limbs will flail all over the place making them worse and causing them more distress. To stop it you need to place your baby on a blanket, folded in a triangular shape, gently bring one hand to his/her side, cross over one side of the blanket, do the same on the other side. Then where his/her legs are, gently hold them straight, fold the blanket up (almost like a mexican wrap if you will) hold your childs head to yours, and sing or shush gently while rocking slowly from side to side. They then hear something other than their own crying, and are calmed VERY quickly! It still may seem like hours to a parent, but it's usually withing 30 seconds (sometimes a bit longer)

This technique has been scientifically and psychologically and clinically proven. The only times it won't work is if it's done incorrectly or if there is something causing the baby pain!

It's a technique I couldn't have lived without! But yes, these things will still happen in public, it's just a matter of knowing how to deal with it!

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 11:22am

RachaelVO wrote: »

Actually, that's not true! With toddler, they need to be entertained and looked after. However there is a technique called swaddle and soothe, it works from new born up, in approximately 30 seconds.

When a baby is getting hysterical, all they can hear is their own crying, and their limbs will flail all over the place making them worse and causing them more distress. To stop it you need to place your baby on a blanket, folded in a triangular shape, gently bring one hand to his/her side, cross over one side of the blanket, do the same on the other side. Then where his/her legs are, gently hold them straight, fold the blanket up (almost like a mexican wrap if you will) hold your childs head to yours, and sing or shush gently while rocking slowly from side to side. They then hear something other than their own crying, and are calmed VERY quickly! It still may seem like hours to a parent, but it's usually withing 30 seconds (sometimes a bit longer)

This technique has been scientifically and psychologically and clinically proven. The only times it won't work is if it's done incorrectly or if there is something causing the baby pain!

It's a technique I couldn't have lived without!

Yes fine if your in a situation where you can try that, and if you know about it, and have practiced it many times. Although i think the art gallery visitors would prefer the crying than listen to me singing to the baby:D

RachaelVO · 21-05-2011 11:25am

robbie7730 wrote: »

Yes fine if your in a situation where you can try that, and if you know about it, and have practiced it many times. Although i think the art gallery visitors would prefer the crying than listen to me singing to the baby

Well that bit is not for me to judge

CK2010 · 21-05-2011 11:28am

RachaelVO wrote: »

Actually, that's not true! With toddler, they need to be entertained and looked after. However there is a technique called swaddle and soothe, it works from new born up, in approximately 30 seconds.

When a baby is getting hysterical, all they can hear is their own crying, and their limbs will flail all over the place making them worse and causing them more distress. To stop it you need to place your baby on a blanket, folded in a triangular shape, gently bring one hand to his/her side, cross over one side of the blanket, do the same on the other side. Then where his/her legs are, gently hold them straight, fold the blanket up (almost like a mexican wrap if you will) hold your childs head to yours, and sing or shush gently while rocking slowly from side to side. They then hear something other than their own crying, and are calmed VERY quickly! It still may seem like hours to a parent, but it's usually withing 30 seconds (sometimes a bit longer)

This technique has been scientifically and psychologically and clinically proven. The only times it won't work is if it's done incorrectly or if there is something causing the baby pain!

It's a technique I couldn't have lived without! But yes, these things will still happen in public, it's just a matter of knowing how to deal with it!

wow, i love how you think caring for a baby can be a simple case of 1+1=2!
a baby is a human being, same as a toddler. you cant just say the formula is... and thats that.
people have bad days, i have days were i nag and moan for no apparent reason, nothing will keep me entertained, im irritable etc. its the same for babies and kids- sometimes they are just having a bad day and your simple formula wont work!!

as for the swaddle and soothe technique, my baby had her own little personality from the moment she was born and HATED being swaddled- hated her hands being held down. all the nurses tried to make me swaddle her and they were swiftly corrected when they saw her scream after they did it. regardless of science proving it due to the similarities to the womb etc.- she hated it!

babies are human beings they dont come with an instruction leaflet because they are all different!

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 11:31am

RachaelVO wrote: »

But yes, these things will still happen in public, it's just a matter of knowing how to deal with it!

Yes but the OP and other posters are saying the kids should not be out anywhere public, so what would there be to deal with if they had their way? And not every baby is guaranteed to respend to any particular technique i dont think.

BQQ · 21-05-2011 11:32am

Yeah, Kate and Gerry McCann had the right idea.
Leave them to cry somewhere they won't bother anyone, while you enjoy "adult pursuits" :rolleyes:

shanec1928 · 21-05-2011 11:33am

later10 wrote: »

You sound like a fantastic parent, but that attitude could be perceived as extraordinarily rude as well.

You wouldnt necessarily be any the wiser after her portraits!

Nevertheless, what gallery it was, or what was happening is irrelevant, Im just illustrating that it was an adult environment typically afforded similar respect to, say, a library.

so why do they have childrens section in library's then. you obviously dont have children and seem to have a hatred towards them

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 11:39am

CK2010 wrote: »

i have days were i nag and moan for no apparent reason, nothing will keep me entertained, im irritable etc.

We better not bring you to the art gallery either so:D

stovelid · 21-05-2011 11:44am

RachaelVO wrote: »

Playing to the crowd??? NO!!! (same accusation could easily be leveled right back atcha)

NO THEY DON'T, You may (I don't know if you have kids or not), I most certainly do, however I've seen people just stand there trying to reason with a child, then bribery ensues, and during that time people are p1ssed off listening to a child not their responsiblity! I've seen this more than a parent taking their child out of the situation!

I have left trolleys with shopping in them. They have never been in a bar (not even a hotel bar), they've been in child friendly restaurants only. They don't whinge on the buses or on the plane, basically cos they know better. You can do the Time Outs anywhere, despite what people think. I've done it MANY times.

Now to be fair to my kids, they are Street Angels House Devils! No doubt about that, there are times I would cheerfully choke the pair of them, however the thing most parents tend to forget, is that if you are interacting with your kids, talking to them, listening to them, or for example on a plane I draw and read with my kids, tantrums are a whole lot less likely. I rarely witness mine have tantrums in public, in fact I'm pretty sure it was last summer I seen my then 18month old son have one.

Tantrums are mostly gonna happen because parents think that their children should understand the concept of time and patience, and therefore exercise reason. If you keep them occupied and entertained and give them the attention they NEED they won't make a holy show of ya.

I don't take them anywhere they are going to be a pain in the ars3. I don't want to be discipling my kids all the time, I want them to have fun, so the golden rule is don't take them anywhere not age appropriate, and don't expect them to behave like adults and for them to exercise reason, they don't have any!

Thanks for the parenting breakdown but I'm not sure I ever said that I would take children to somewhere that was not age appropriate (I don;t agree with it for them or for the other people there) or that I wouldn't deal swiftly with tantrums - whether on a proactive level or in situ.

Personally I think it's dumb -and not a little selfish - to take very young kids to places like galleries, pubs and nice/adult restaurants but conversely why not provide more places where parents can - shock horror - go out on a Sunday afternoon and - shock horror - have a life even if they have kids with them.

My point was that very young kids will often act up in public no matter how they are being reared and that you have to strike a balance between minimizing the hassle for others and - playing to the crowd - cravenly apologizing for their very existence to people without kids who are often just objecting to the mere presence of children before the kids even open their mouths and paradoxically will probably end up being the most insufferable my little angels types themselves when they have kids.

Rocky_Dennis · 21-05-2011 11:49am

forza rovers wrote: »

so why do they have childrens section in library's then. you obviously dont have children and seem to have a hatred towards them

I hate this type of bullsh*t, you don't have to have children to have common sense.
Was at my nephews communion last week, held in a pub. Few kids there and all that. Was getting late, pushing 8 o clock and everyone was starting to get drunk, kids running riot around the pub.

Approached my sisters to take the kids home because they were running wild and disturbing the regular drinkers in the pub, i was met with the same sh*t as always " you don't understand because you don't have kids". "wait till you have kids and you see what it is like"

Firstly bitch*s, if i had kids, i wouldn't have them causing a disturbance in the pub, i would have arranged a babysitter to collect the kids if i had planned on drinking for the day.

And secondly, i don't need to have kids to know the difference between right and wrong and having kids running riot around a pub late in the evening is wrong.

It boils my blood when i get these replies of "you don't understand because you don't have kids" What the fu*k is there to understand. Common sense goes a long way.

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 11:53am

Andrewh1984 wrote: »

I hate this type of bullsh*t, you don't have to have children to have common sense.
Was at my nephews communion last week, held in a pub. Few kids there and all that. Was getting late, pushing 8 o clock and everyone was starting to get drunk, kids running riot around the pub.

Approached my sisters to take the kids home because they were running wild and disturbing the regular drinkers in the pub, i was met with the same sh*t as always " you don't understand because you don't have kids". "wait till you have kids and you see what it is like"

Firstly bitch*s, if i had kids, i wouldn't have them causing a disturbance in the pub, i would have arranged a babysitter to collect the kids if i had planned on drinking for the day.

And secondly, i don't need to have kids to know the difference between right and wrong and having kids running riot around a pub late in the evening is wrong.

It boils my blood when i get these replies of "you don't understand because you don't have kids" What the fu*k is there to understand. Common sense goes a long way.

Yes but a pub is just one little example. If you have kids, someday you will be in a position somewhere where they will irritate someone. While you dont have kids, all you will ever see is how other peoples kids annoy you.

Not that im saying they should be let run riot in a pub, and that you not having kids excludes you from seeing that it is annoying.

Rocky_Dennis · 21-05-2011 11:59am

robbie7730 wrote: »

Yes but a pub is just one little example. If you have kids, someday you will be in a position somewhere where they will irritate someone. While you dont have kids, all you will ever see is how other peoples kids annoy you.

Not that im saying they should be let run riot in a pub, and that you not having kids excludes you from seeing that it is annoying.

TBH, it's not the kids that annoy me, kids are kids and should be allowed to be kids but in certain places at certain times. It's the lack of parenting that gets on my nerves.

Janneke · 21-05-2011 11:59am

I think it depends on the time as well as the place. I think it's great to see families in museums, and if I go in at the weekend, then I expect there to be loads of screaming kids. That's not to say I enjoy their screams, but I figure the weekend is family time, so if I want to avoid them, I try to go during the week.

But I completely agree with the OP; badly behaved children are annoying in an adult environment. I used to know someone who brought their toddler to adult parties. There was no one for the kid to play with and we all had to coo over the child. Lovely child, but not the place.

later12 · 21-05-2011 12:00pm

forza rovers wrote: »

so why do they have childrens section in library's then. you obviously dont have children and seem to have a hatred towards them

Because it is important that children develop strong reading skills. In most situations, children who are old enough to read are old enough to be socialised - I am talking about very young children, as I said in my OP, particularly those in prams and buggies. Except for when there are reading groups/ children's meetings, even children in libraries are asked to uphold quietness.

mattjack wrote: »

have you any children yourself..?...........

I have a problem with this question, to be honest.

Firstly, this is the internet, and ideally we ought to debate on a logical level. This isn't a children collecting competition, and I don't see how that can count for much anyway. You don't win a debate by having children. This is the same argument that says 'no vagina, no opinion' in relation to abortion.

No, mattjack, as I have already said, I do not have children. I said I do understand that being a parent is a difficult role. Nevertheless it is not everybody else's job to accomodate young children in places that were not designed for baby's enjoyment.

Carawaystick wrote: »

Firstly can you provide evidence you never engaged in such behaviour at any time in your life?

What do you want me to do, put my Mother on the telephone????

I'm sure I did. But my parents didn't take me out to dinner or to exhibitions until I was old enough to learn to behave myself, and I knew that if I was loud or obnoxious, there would be consequences.

secondly, were the audio exhibits in the imma overwhelmed by the crying children?

No, but watching, understanding, and enjoying can demand a certain level of concentration to appreciate the technique or theme being employed.

The same goes for libraries and museums, and that is why these are usually rather quiet places, it's hard to concentrate when young children are agitated and crying, as of course they can so easily be when they do not feel stimulated.

I can't understand the OP wondering why people known to children die or need to be buried or want to go to a religious ceremony cause any issues to any onmipotent or omnicient magic faerie like a god?

I'm talking about babies at funerals. Particularly babies who don't know what's happening. Or, as another poster said, she would leave the funeral if her baby started crying, and obviously that sort of intervention would be welcomed by the other mourners, and it is a very considerate position to take.

snyper wrote: »

Resturant - you cant hear your sandwich

No. My problem with small babies in restaurants is that it can be hard to have a conversation when the baby (or babies) are crying. Whatever about galleries, which are either cheap or free of charge, this is one I find particularly hard to understand. If you can afford to eat in a nice restaurant, can you not also afford a babysitter?

I would also find this annoying if I were a parent who did make the effort to get a babysitter and enjoy a night out, and then found myself near to a screaming child.

The Park - you cant hear the birds chirp..hey..i got a tip..take off your fcuking ipod when u jog

The seaside - blocks the sun, leaving only the hole in the ozone for you to enjoy + they make noise

Nobody said anything about babies not being allowed in the park, or at the seaside, as far as I have read. You appear to be inventing this.

So in essance, rather than the usual ol load of bollox, just admit if you can that you hate children. Thats the first step.

But I do like children. I want to be a Dad. It isn't a case of either believing that small children should be allowed anywhere 'or else you must hate children'. I just don't see what small babies need from galleries, restaurants and religious ceremonies.

It will be those children that will be paying for your generation to have their arses wiped and nappies changed when you are too old to do it

No, it will be my pension doing that - for which I am already paying heavily in terms of social contributions voluntary deductions. And it is childless adult's taxes which indiscriminately goes towards things like infrastructure, education, and childrens' allowance.

and .. and you dont have family of your own because ... you hated children for too long and then when you wantwed them you were too old to have them

I'm 24, I would consider myself too young for children, and again I don't hate children, I actually enjoy their energy and curiosity.

dj jarvis · 21-05-2011 12:03pm

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I hate crying kids, little bastards should STFU. The parents are worse, continuing on with whatever they are doing not caring that their demon spawn is ruining everything for everyone else, whether thats a meal, or like what I experienced, peoples study in a bloody library. Leave the kids at home or in childcare if they can't stay quiet rather than making everyone else suffer.

Children are allowed in library's !!!
you dont like it you go somewhere else - why do you think they have massive child sections ??? ffs people give out because they just play play station - so now the ones who do read cant just in case they upset a 20 something grump - your the one who needs to suck it up and do some growing up yourself

Children make noise - get over it
art gallery fair enough but a library ??? cop on :eek:

later12 · 21-05-2011 12:06pm

robbie7730 wrote: »

Yes but the OP and other posters are saying the kids should not be out anywhere public

No, I am not saying that. I am talking about adult environments.

edit: by the way I want to reiterate that I am not anti-children at all, and it is encouraging to see there are so many parents on here who feel the same way about loud young children in adult environments. In such situations, I can imagine that even the parents stop having fun and get as irritated as the child and the other adults, so nobody ends up winning.

Unfortunately, there will always be a more militant few who insist that children must be allowed almost anywhere they go, and that everyone else should just put up with any distraction that occurs.

stovelid · 21-05-2011 12:08pm

RachaelVO wrote: »

When a baby is getting hysterical, all they can hear is their own crying, and their limbs will flail all over the place making them worse and causing them more distress. To stop it you need to place your baby on a blanket, folded in a triangular shape, gently bring one hand to his/her side, cross over one side of the blanket, do the same on the other side. Then where his/her legs are, gently hold them straight, fold the blanket up (almost like a mexican wrap if you will) hold your childs head to yours, and sing or shush gently while rocking slowly from side to side. They then hear something other than their own crying, and are calmed VERY quickly! It still may seem like hours to a parent, but it's usually withing 30 seconds (sometimes a bit longer)

!

For a toddler? As in 2-3 year old?

I echo the sentiment about swaddling babies elsewhere. My son hated it too. And those baby pouch carrying things.

Also what about people stuck with more than one kid?

I think sometimes we make the very human mistake of assuming that everybody's kid is the same as yours or even everybody's situation is the same as yours.

My son (nearly 3) actually rarely loses it but has only done so occasionally in a place like the supermarket and I usually just take him out for a while or like you say entrust him with helping to occupy him but it doesn't always work.

I'll be honest though and say another person's kid doing it somewhere like a supermarket would never bother me that much. Same with crying out of crankiness. Some people are just petty enough to be wound up it but not me. Only thing that would really annoy me is things like non-supervision or neglect: people letting kids run around places - especially non-appropriate venues like cafes and so - unsupervised or doing nothing to address actual bad behaviour. And by bad behaviour I don't mean toddlers making a bit of noise or crying.

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 12:09pm

later10 wrote: »

No, I am not saying that. I am talking about adult environments.

Best edit your thread title so.

Electric Sheep · 21-05-2011 12:22pm

kfallon wrote: »

We were once those screaming kids in public places!

You may have been, but most of us had parents that knew better than to take toddlers to art galleries.

later12 · 21-05-2011 12:28pm

robbie7730 wrote: »

Best edit your thread title so.

It should have become pretty clear pretty fast in the original post, and other posters' responses. Ideally, we're expected to read more than just the thread title before responding.

TaraFoxglove · 21-05-2011 12:33pm

What gets me is when I see a mother and her young kid in a shop and the mother is saying "OK, what sweets do you want?" And the kid starts picking bar after bar off the shelf.

DON'T GIVE THE KID A CHOICE!!!

We were only allowed a small amount of chocolate at the weekends as kids and it was usually a case of "You're getting chocolate buttons and that's that!" :pac:

The question of parents with young children in public

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