Dublin Bus route 38 route - changed?

Jaysoose · 11-02-2011 10:58am #1

Got a 38 this morning and when we reached trinity college the driver stops and turns the lights off upstairs and stops the engine. No announcement so i go downstairs and ask him why he is not going to Baggot street to which the reply i got "this bus is for the city centre only" i told him the 38 goes to baggot street and then he changes his reply to "im just following orders".

Bearing in mind that i heard him on the radio saying he has an empty bus i have to believe that he forgot about the 10 people upstairs and contacted control who told him to go no further. So instead of rectifying his mistake he makes it worse and i had to tell him "you might want to let the people upstairs your stopped here".

My question is has the 38 route changed or did this driver make a ballsup and refuse to acknowledge his mistake at the inconvenience of the PAYING customer and then hide behind the "its management" because it suited him.

ArmaniJeanss · 11-02-2011 12:01pm

Seems to be a regular occurence on this route. My favourite is the driver of the 38A announcing that "I'm supposed to end in O'Connell St, but I'll bring ye as far as College Green if you want".

It also raises the question of what happens to the people in Baggot St waiting for a 38(A) to do the reverse journey.

thomasj · 11-02-2011 12:06pm

Nah this is happening alot with Dublin 15 buses since network direct I've experienced it at least twice once for up to 40 minutes on a 39 and every time I pass trinity college bus stop there are buses parked there.

Someone asked here before why are these buses empty after trinity and I suppose the answer is because some of them are parked there for upto half an hour

Jaysoose · 11-02-2011 12:24pm

So the general concensus is that the dublin bus are making it up as they go along and when the drivers are pulled about it they respond with either "this route always stops here" or "management made me do it".

Its hard to understand why dublin bus operate the way they do, but it certainly isnt to keep the customers happy.

Chardee MacDennis · 11-02-2011 12:27pm

Jaysoose wrote: »

Got a 38 this morning and when we reached trinity college the driver stops and turns the lights off upstairs and stops the engine. No announcement so i go downstairs and ask him why he is not going to Baggot street to which the reply i got "this bus is for the city centre only" i told him the 38 goes to baggot street and then he changes his reply to "im just following orders".

Bearing in mind that i heard him on the radio saying he has an empty bus i have to believe that he forgot about the 10 people upstairs and contacted control who told him to go no further. So instead of rectifying his mistake he makes it worse and i had to tell him "you might want to let the people upstairs your stopped here".

My question is has the 38 route changed or did this driver make a ballsup and refuse to acknowledge his mistake at the inconvenience of the PAYING customer and then hide behind the "its management" because it suited him.

similar thing happened to me on the 37, driver stopped at trinity and switched off everything. i asked what was going on as i was the last on the bus and he said he had to stop here and wait for another driver to change shifts but he was 20mins early so i could wait there for the other driver :eek: i ended up just walking...

Jaysoose · 11-02-2011 1:16pm

BastardPrince wrote: »

similar thing happened to me on the 37, driver stopped at trinity and switched off everything. i asked what was going on as i was the last on the bus and he said he had to stop here and wait for another driver to change shifts but he was 20mins early so i could wait there for the other driver :eek: i ended up just walking...

So you were left to sort yourself out due to drivers not running to the schedule, best thing is you know complaining is pointless as the people you would be complaining to couldnt give a fiddlers.

jack presley · 11-02-2011 5:56pm

Until Dublin Bus become accountable for the rubbish service they give, there's nothing you can do except shrug your shoulders and get on with it.

There's no point in complaining or writing a letter/email etc. They don't care.

CIE · 12-02-2011 4:06am

Jaysoose wrote: »

So the general concensus is that the dublin bus are making it up as they go along and when the drivers are pulled about it they respond with either "this route always stops here" or "management made me do it".

Its hard to understand why dublin bus operate the way they do, but it certainly isnt to keep the customers happy.

Is this similar to how one would be on the 66 going into town in the 80s, and suddenly the bus would turn onto Grattan Bridge and run down Essex Street, Temple Bar and Fleet Street when you really wanted to get off at O'Connell Street...?

How would DB react if a few hundred disgruntled customers showed up at Number Fifty-Nine asking for resolution of their complaints?

**Timbuk2** · 12-02-2011 2:00pm

Last December I got a 39A from UCD to Blanchardstown Centre. That went fine, but on the way back, I was waiting ages for a 39A to come. When it did come, it had "City Centre 39A" written on it - I got it anyway as I wasn't waiting around for a UCD Belfield one. When we got to College Green, it switched off all the lights and everybody had to get off (some people were surprised).

I decided to wait at College Green for an 'actual' 39A instead of walking to Nassau street to get another bus to UCD. About 10 minutes later, the bus I had just got off chanced to 39A UCD Belfield, so I got back on the empty bus (it was a different driver this time).

The mind boggles.

meanmachine3 · 12-02-2011 8:16pm

Jaysoose wrote: »

Got a 38 this morning and when we reached trinity college the driver stops and turns the lights off upstairs and stops the engine. No announcement so i go downstairs and ask him why he is not going to Baggot street to which the reply i got "this bus is for the city centre only" i told him the 38 goes to baggot street and then he changes his reply to "im just following orders".

Bearing in mind that i heard him on the radio saying he has an empty bus i have to believe that he forgot about the 10 people upstairs and contacted control who told him to go no further. So instead of rectifying his mistake he makes it worse and i had to tell him "you might want to let the people upstairs your stopped here".

My question is has the 38 route changed or did this driver make a ballsup and refuse to acknowledge his mistake at the inconvenience of the PAYING customer and then hide behind the "its management" because it suited him.

theres alot to reply to in this thread. in general jaysoose it's very hard for a driver to see upstairs. he might only be able to see a couple of seats through the periscope. alot of buses tend to have city centre/ collecge green etc. on their scrolls but most people tend not to look at where the bus is terminating. then you have the problem of drivers being told on route to terminate in the city.

thomasj wrote: »

Nah this is happening alot with Dublin 15 buses since network direct I've experienced it at least twice once for up to 40 minutes on a 39 and every time I pass trinity college bus stop there are buses parked there.

Someone asked here before why are these buses empty after trinity and I suppose the answer is because some of them are parked there for upto half an hour

before the new timetables came out the drivers voted on whether to accept or reject them. they rejected them on the grounds that most buses didn't have enough time to get from A to B yet dublin bus still forced these timetables through and as a result of this you have alot of out of service buses. since the blanch routes became cross city this has worsened alot. the problem here is that when the driver on a bus breaks late , it has a huge knock on affect from buses running late to buses being parked up till the alloted driver arrives ,to buses working only as far as city centre.

BastardPrince wrote: »

similar thing happened to me on the 37, driver stopped at trinity and switched off everything. i asked what was going on as i was the last on the bus and he said he had to stop here and wait for another driver to change shifts but he was 20mins early so i could wait there for the other driver :eek: i ended up just walking...

can happen, it all depends on traffic. some days are good some are absolute ****e. alot of you would know this from taking the same buses daily. a driver only has a certain amount of time to get from A to B. some can do a run in 40 mins while it might take others over an hour to do the same run.T.B.H. prince you did well.

Jaysoose wrote: »

So you were left to sort yourself out due to drivers not running to the schedule, best thing is you know complaining is pointless as the people you would be complaining to couldnt give a fiddlers.

no offence jaysoose, we just cant win. if we drive to slow people complain ,if we get into town to quick and passengers have to wait for a driver they complain.
well wait till you see whats coming. only thing i will say is you wont be getting into town 20 minutes early. it will be bang on time.:D

Jaysoose · 12-02-2011 11:04pm

meanmachine3 wrote: »

theres alot to reply to in this thread. in general jaysoose it's very hard for a driver to see upstairs. he might only be able to see a couple of seats through the periscope. alot of buses tend to have city centre/ collecge green etc. on their scrolls but most people tend not to look at where the bus is terminating. then you have the problem of drivers being told on route to terminate in the city.

no offence jaysoose, we just cant win. if we drive to slow people complain ,if we get into town to quick and passengers have to wait for a driver they complain.
well wait till you see whats coming. only thing i will say is you wont be getting into town 20 minutes early. it will be bang on time.:D

There was 10 people upstairs and i heard the driver onto control saying the bus was empty, the bus came as normal and had 38 baggot street on the front. Its obvious the driver made an assumption that upstairs was empty without bothering to check the continued with the line that 'its management' when he clearly made a mistake. Instead of rectifying this error he decided to effectively call me a liar and also say that the bus was for the city centre only. Im not asking for much only that the bus goes to the destination it states on the front at the end of the day its not the nitelink people are just trying to get to work.

Im sorry if i cant have sympathy for your predicament at the end of the day all customers want is the bus to be on time and go to its destination, the fact that drivers change/end of shifts etc are used as a reason for paying customers to be left sitting on buses waiting on another driver/bus is ridiculous.

Its the customer that suffers in all of this and the drivers seem to not give a damn as long as they get what they want in all of this, its pathetic.

Jaysoose · 22-02-2011 3:43pm

So it does appear that the 38/38a route has changed as the bus i got this morning had 'Oconnell streeet' on the front and when i asked the driver has the route changed i got a 'its a management decision'.

My question is when did they decide to change the route and why have no updates been made to the timetables as they clearly state that the 38 and 38/a run to baggot street.

I sent an email this morning but am not going to hold my breath waiting on a response.

Cool Mo D · 22-02-2011 3:56pm

Jaysoose wrote: »

So it does appear that the 38/38a route has changed as the bus i got this morning had 'Oconnell streeet' on the front and when i asked the driver has the route changed i got a 'its a management decision'.

My question is when did they decide to change the route and why have no updates been made to the timetables as they clearly state that the 38 and 38/a run to baggot street.

I sent an email this morning but am not going to hold my breath waiting on a response.

It's unlikely the route has changed. The driver has probably been told by the route manager to cut his route short so he can make his return journey on time.

Jaysoose · 22-02-2011 4:23pm

Cool Mo D wrote: »

It's unlikely the route has changed. The driver has probably been told by the route manager to cut his route short so he can make his return journey on time.

This is a route change then? no..

Clearly stated on front of bus that its for oconnell street, timetable says different..customer told nothing except a rehearsed answer from lovely chap in drivers seat.

Bazzer2 · 22-02-2011 4:27pm

Jaysoose wrote: »

This is a route change then? no..

Clearly stated on front of bus that its for oconnell street, timetable says different..customer told nothing except a rehearsed answer from troglodyte in drivers seat.

So a bus driver is deemed a troglodyte for following orders from a superior? Charming.

Jaysoose · 22-02-2011 4:31pm

Bazzer2 wrote: »

So a bus driver is deemed a troglodyte for following orders from a superior? Charming.

He certainly wasnt charming..barely turned his head to give his distinterested answer.

Anyway troglodyte was a bit harsh dont want to get into it so edited the post.

Bazzer2 · 22-02-2011 4:46pm

Bus drivers should at least be civil towards their customers. However, it is understandable that when a driver is instructed to cut a journey short, for whatever reason, s/he is then faced with having to inform passengers that they may be inconvenienced. If I was in the driver's seat, I wouldn't relish the thought of it and it certainly wouldn't make me happy.

A passenger taking out their frustrations on a driver because of a decision from a superior achieves nothing, but is also understandable. Making a complaint through the proper channels (i.e. emailing or writing to the Dublin Bus Customer Service Department) is really the best way of getting a problem sorted.

Jaysoose · 22-02-2011 4:56pm

Bazzer2 wrote: »

Bus drivers should at least be civil towards their customers. However, it is understandable that when a driver is instructed to cut a journey short, for whatever reason, s/he is then faced with having to inform passengers that they may be inconvenienced. If I was in the driver's seat, I wouldn't relish the thought of it and it certainly wouldn't make me happy.

A passenger taking out their frustrations on a driver because of a decision from a superior achieves nothing, but is also understandable. Making a complaint through the proper channels (i.e. emailing or writing to the Dublin Bus Customer Service Department) is really the best way of getting a problem sorted.

I never took my frustration out on the driver as it is a complete waste of breath and time. He was not interested in a genuine question and gave a dismissve answer. I did send an email but like the few before it the reponse is incredibly slow coming back if at all.

If the drivers dont relish the thought of having to deal with the public then they should have thought about that before taking a customer facing position.

This route change has happened a number of times since the introduction of the disastrous network direct and is designed like all the changes dublinbus are introducing with the customer way down the list of priorities.

LXFlyer · 22-02-2011 5:30pm

The problems on the 38/38a arise due to the fact that the driver/bus rosters that are behind the public timetable do not allow sufficient time for the buses/drivers to complete some journeys, with the result that in order to get drivers and buses back to where they ought to be controllers may cut a journey short, or indeed other journeys may not operate.

I did read somewhere however (although I can't remember where) that a new timetable for these routes with more realistic running times is due to be implemented fairly soon.

bg07 · 22-02-2011 5:32pm

I just saw another 38 in Phibsborough 20 minutes ago with O'Connell Street as the destination. Maybe they have changed the route with no attempt to inform the customer.

CIE · 22-02-2011 5:45pm

Jaysoose wrote: »

If the drivers dont relish the thought of having to deal with the public then they should have thought about that before taking a customer facing position

One of the advantages of having a bus with a conductor is that the driver can focus on driving. It also increases average speed by reducing dwell times at stops. I always found the conductors friendly; I can sympathise with a bus driver that has to do double duty as conductor, as I find driving stressful enough as it is, and driving in Dublin is way more stressful today than in the past. (One might notice that CIE/DB keeps "losing money" in spite of retiring the conductor position, with all the big savings to the public supposedly associated with that act.)

Jaysoose · 22-02-2011 10:22pm

CIE wrote: »

One of the advantages of having a bus with a conductor is that the driver can focus on driving. It also increases average speed by reducing dwell times at stops. I always found the conductors friendly; I can sympathise with a bus driver that has to do double duty as conductor, as I find driving stressful enough as it is, and driving in Dublin is way more stressful today than in the past. (One might notice that CIE/DB keeps "losing money" in spite of retiring the conductor position, with all the big savings to the public supposedly associated with that act.)

Im sorry but this is the biggest cop out i have seen for drivers having rotten attitudes and generally being dismissive to PAYING CUSTOMERS who are asking for simple information and some basic manners.

The reason CIE/Dublinbus is losing money is because the service is consistently poor and people will not tolerate it anymore.

Can you answer the question about the route being changed when it clearly states on all stops that the 38/a 38 runs to baggot street. Where the customers even considered when this change to the route has been made? was any information provided? like hell it was and the drivers are adding to customer frustrations with their attitude.

Route 38 From Damastown Towards Baggot St. (Grand Canal) taken from the website, not a mention the changes to the route.

Jaysoose · 22-02-2011 10:22pm

bg07 wrote: »

I just saw another 38 in Phibsborough 20 minutes ago with O'Connell Street as the destination. Maybe they have changed the route with no attempt to inform the customer.

Obviously the customer is not high on the priorities for dublinbus.

Jaysoose · 22-02-2011 10:28pm

lxflyer wrote: »

The problems on the 38/38a arise due to the fact that the driver/bus rosters that are behind the public timetable do not allow sufficient time for the buses/drivers to complete some journeys, with the result that in order to get drivers and buses back to where they ought to be controllers may cut a journey short, or indeed other journeys may not operate.

I did read somewhere however (although I can't remember where) that a new timetable for these routes with more realistic running times is due to be implemented fairly soon.

Im confused how can it make sense to cut short one of the busier routes into the city during peak hours to facilitate less customers who are obviously leaving the city? Dublinbus really are pathetic at providing the service, at the end of the day they implemented this network direct which has caused the issue and are now compounding the problem by changing routes its a joke.

LXFlyer · 22-02-2011 10:59pm

Jaysoose wrote: »

Im confused how can it make sense to cut short one of the busier routes into the city during peak hours to facilitate less customers who are obviously leaving the city? Dublinbus really are pathetic at providing the service, at the end of the day they implemented this network direct which has caused the issue and are now compounding the problem by changing routes its a joke.

The routes have not changed. The problem is that the schedule at certain times is just simply impossible to achieve because the roster does not give the bus enough time to get from one terminus to the other. This causes knock-on effects on later services which mean that the schedule goes out the window.

To try to resolve this controllers may cut certain services short to try to get drivers and buses back on schedule. It is an operational decision at a particular point in time. This is far from desireable but it can be the only option they have. However, passengers should always be transferred to another bus and not left in the lurch.

To be fair to the drivers they have had this problem since October, and are probably getting rather frustrated as they are unable to actually do their job normally without having to have to call control to try and get back on schedule. However that is no excuse for rudeness.

What I read elsewhere was that a new schedule with realistic running times is being prepared and should be introduced in the near future. This one would hope will address the problem.

Bazzer2 · 23-02-2011 7:21am

Jaysoose wrote: »

Obviously the customer is not high on the priorities for dublinbus.

Out of two possibles, which would you rather have:
"O'Connell Street", or "Out Of Service"?

Jaysoose · 23-02-2011 8:30am

Bazzer2 wrote: »

Out of two possibles, which would you rather have:
"O'Connell Street", or "Out Of Service"?

How about a third option "baggot street"? or is it to much to ask that buses actually go to the destination stated on the timetable.

Jaysoose · 23-02-2011 8:36am

lxflyer wrote: »

The routes have not changed. The problem is that the schedule at certain times is just simply impossible to achieve because the roster does not give the bus enough time to get from one terminus to the other. This causes knock-on effects on later services which mean that the schedule goes out the window.

To try to resolve this controllers may cut certain services short to try to get drivers and buses back on schedule. It is an operational decision at a particular point in time. This is far from desireable but it can be the only option they have. However, passengers should always be transferred to another bus and not left in the lurch.

To be fair to the drivers they have had this problem since October, and are probably getting rather frustrated as they are unable to actually do their job normally without having to have to call control to try and get back on schedule. However that is no excuse for rudeness.

What I read elsewhere was that a new schedule with realistic running times is being prepared and should be introduced in the near future. This one would hope will address the problem.

Im sorry but it is a route change is the bus is showing oconnell street before it even leaves blanchardstown, at the end of the day the controllers are obviously just moving the problem to cover themselves while the customer frustrations are not even considered.

Did the customers ask for the 'network direct' cutbacks? they were brought in without a thought to the people using the service and now they see that its made a balls of routes across the city they cut services short and change routes to keep up with an unrealistic timetable.

The only option they should have should be the bus runs to the route designated at least that way people can get to were they want even if it is behind schedule but as i have said over and over the customer does not count for dublinbus.

meanmachine3 · 24-02-2011 1:19am

Jaysoose wrote: »

Can you answer the question about the route being changed when it clearly states on all stops that the 38/a 38 runs to baggot street. Where the customers even considered when this change to the route has been made? was any information provided?

Ring Phibsboro Garage and ask to speak to one of the managers

Jaysoose wrote: »

Im confused how can it make sense to cut short one of the busier routes into the city during peak hours to facilitate less customers who are obviously leaving the city? Dublinbus really are pathetic at providing the service, at the end of the day they implemented this network direct which has caused the issue and are now compounding the problem by changing routes its a joke.

Ring Phibsboro Garage and ask to speak to one of the managers

Jaysoose wrote: »

How about a third option "baggot street"? or is it to much to ask that buses actually go to the destination stated on the timetable.

Ring Phibsboro Garage and ask to speak to one of the managers

Jaysoose wrote: »

Im sorry but it is a route change is the bus is showing oconnell street before it even leaves blanchardstown, at the end of the day the controllers are obviously just moving the problem to cover themselves while the customer frustrations are not even considered.

Did the customers ask for the 'network direct' cutbacks? they were brought in without a thought to the people using the service and now they see that its made a balls of routes across the city they cut services short and change routes to keep up with an unrealistic timetable.

The only option they should have should be the bus runs to the route designated at least that way people can get to were they want even if it is behind schedule but as i have said over and over the customer does not count for dublinbus.

Ring Phibsboro Garage and ask to speak to one of the managers so you can take your frustations out on them.
jaysoose i sent you a pm a while back it's obvious you didn't read it judging by your replies. so here it is again for all to see this time.
"hi jaysoose
i sympathise with you fully. unfortunately in most cases it's nothing to do with the drivers. the drivers in the blanch area voted on and rejected the timetables that came in before christmas. thats the 37's/8 and 9's on the grounds that they knew they would'nt work.
yes the driver could've handled it differently. i have on some occasions been in that drivers position and the way i dealt with what happened to you is appolgise for the inconvience and try to get you on the next bus that comes around. i have missed passengers my self. but a couple of times i have announced last stop at college green over the P.A system,pull away and have passengers come tearing down the stairs. only thing was these guys were listening to head phones and didn't hear my announcement.
the drivers are caught in the middle between managment and the passengers. and in the latter are always in the firing line. nowadays it's nearly impossible for a driver to take a bus out of service on his own bat, reason being is that we have something similar to a sat nav that is linked up to our supervisiors so they can see exactly where we are all the time. "
This thread has run it's course and needs to be locked. all thats happening is it's going around in circles.
jyasoose your not going to get the answers your looking for on here, it's that simple. so on that note i say again.
Ring Phibsboro Garage and ask to speak to one of the managers

Jaysoose · 24-02-2011 9:13am

meanmachine3 wrote: »

Ring Phibsboro Garage and ask to speak to one of the managers

Ring Phibsboro Garage and ask to speak to one of the managers

Ring Phibsboro Garage and ask to speak to one of the managers

Ring Phibsboro Garage and ask to speak to one of the managers so you can take your frustations out on them.
jaysoose i sent you a pm a while back it's obvious you didn't read it judging by your replies. so here it is again for all to see this time.
"hi jaysoose
i sympathise with you fully. unfortunately in most cases it's nothing to do with the drivers. the drivers in the blanch area voted on and rejected the timetables that came in before christmas. thats the 37's/8 and 9's on the grounds that they knew they would'nt work.
yes the driver could've handled it differently. i have on some occasions been in that drivers position and the way i dealt with what happened to you is appolgise for the inconvience and try to get you on the next bus that comes around. i have missed passengers my self. but a couple of times i have announced last stop at college green over the P.A system,pull away and have passengers come tearing down the stairs. only thing was these guys were listening to head phones and didn't hear my announcement.
the drivers are caught in the middle between managment and the passengers. and in the latter are always in the firing line. nowadays it's nearly impossible for a driver to take a bus out of service on his own bat, reason being is that we have something similar to a sat nav that is linked up to our supervisiors so they can see exactly where we are all the time. "
This thread has run it's course and needs to be locked. all thats happening is it's going around in circles.
jyasoose your not going to get the answers your looking for on here, it's that simple. so on that note i say again.
Ring Phibsboro Garage and ask to speak to one of the managers

So what if you sent me a PM it said nothing that cant eb said i the thread and that is why i didnt bother replying to you so im not even sure why its relevant, maybe your upset i ignored it.

im Happy to keep things out in the open on the thread and am simply looking for confirmation that the route has been changed. What im not looking for is excuses just acceptance that the route has been changed.

I have made sent in numerous complaints and am still waiting on responses.

Who are you to say the thread should be locked if you dont like the fact that im asking legitimate questions and not accepting the 'management made me do it' or the classic 'the route has not changed' answers then dont post in the thread. But considering you are a bus driver im not surprised you want the thread locked.

Never drink and post.

Bazzer2 · 24-02-2011 9:57am

Jaysoose: You have repeatedly been offered help, explanations and advice. You choose to accept none. Tough.

Meanmachine: Conserve your energy. As a bus driver, you should know that there are some people you just can't help and will never be satisfied, no matter how many times explanations are offered.

Jaysoose · 24-02-2011 10:31am

Bazzer2 wrote: »

Jaysoose: You have repeatedly been offered help, explanations and advice. You choose to accept none. Tough.

Meanmachine: Conserve your energy. As a bus driver, you should know that there are some people you just can't help and will never be satisfied, no matter how many times explanations are offered.

WTF help, explanations and advice? Do You mean meanmachines passive agressive and to be honest incredibly patronising post from last night? Do you mean the denial that the route has changed? Advice?

I have been offered excuses from drivers as to why management are forcing them to do this that and the other, not once has it even been acknowledged on here that the route has changed which it clearly has.

If you dont like that im not accepting the answers then thats your own problem, im simply looking for people opinions on this route and why dublin bus are deciding to change it without giving any information to the people that pay the fares. There is no definitive answer to this question and these boards are about an exchange of views.

At the end of the day im not surprised at the tone of yours and meanmachines posts as it is indicative of the attitude shown by the drivers i deal with on my commute. There seems to be a prevailing belief that passengers are simply here to give drivers and db management a living and no consideration is given to them when implementing changes to routes etc.

LXFlyer · 24-02-2011 11:02am

Jaysoose wrote: »

WTF help, explanations and advice? Do You mean meanmachines passive agressive and to be honest incredibly patronising post from last night? Do you mean the denial that the route has changed? Advice?

I have been offered excuses from drivers as to why management are forcing them to do this that and the other, not once has it even been acknowledged on here that the route has changed which it clearly has.

If you dont like that im not accepting the answers then thats your own problem, im simply looking for people opinions on this route and why dublin bus are deciding to change it without giving any information to the people that pay the fares. There is no definitive answer to this question and these boards are about an exchange of views.

At the end of the day im not surprised at the tone of yours and meanmachines posts as it is indicative of the attitude shown by the drivers i deal with on my commute. There seems to be a prevailing belief that passengers are simply here to give drivers and db management a living and no consideration is given to them when implementing changes to routes etc.

Jaysoose - there has been no official change in the timetable.

What is happening is that (as I explained to you above) the timetable is just simply impossible to operate for certain journeys as it does not allow sufficient time for the bus to complete the outbound and inbound journey.

Therefore, controllers are faced with the dilemma that buses and drivers are not where they should be at a particular point in time and have to make an operational decision to either:
1) Operate a short working to College Street; or
2) Cancel a trip altogether

What you have described above is option 1. This happens from time to time on other routes, but is not noticed as much as it only happens where there is traffic congestion etc., and passengers are usually transferred to another bus in order to complete their journey.

Controllers do have the right to cut a journey short on any route where necessary from an operational perspective. In the case of buses leaving Damastown displaying College Green or O'Connell Street they may well be running sufficiently late that the controller makes the decision to operate the service short to College Green before it departs. However, I would agree that this is of no help to anyone going to beyond College Green.

The reason you are seeing it on route 38/a and indeed routes 39/a is that the rosters that were implemented in October are (at certain times) not fit for purpose and controllers are having to make operational decisions every day in order to get buses and drivers back on schedule. The same thing has happened on routes 145, 46a, 47 and 63 when they were reorganised as part of the Network Direct problem - each of these routes has had to have short workings operating at certain times in order to get buses back on schedule.

Routes 46a, 47 and 63 all now have new rosters and timetables that allow sufficient time to get from one end of the route to the other and for the public timetable to operate properly. That is still outstanding for the 38/a, 39/a and 145 but is from what I've read in the pipeline.

It should never take this long to resolve, but it has. The basic problem is that the rosters on routes 38/a as designed when the Network Direct project was implemented were impossible to operate at certain times. If the controllers did not cut the journey short then the problems would continue with more and more time lost during the day with the result that an entire journey would be lost.

That is what has been happening for four months since the new timetables/rosters were introduced. The issue is now finally about to be addressed with new rosters, but it should never have been left for four months like this. Don't ask me why impossible rosters/timetables were introduced as I don't know, but that is the situation.

For clarification - I have no affiliation with any party involved in this.

Jaysoose · 24-02-2011 11:13am

lxflyer wrote: »

Jaysoose - there has been no official change in the timetable.

What is happening is that (as I explained to you above) the timetable is just simply impossible to operate for certain journeys as it does not allow sufficient time for the bus to complete the outbound and inbound journey.

Therefore, controllers are faced with the dilemma that buses and drivers are not where they should be at a particular point in time and have to make an operational decision to either:
1) Operate a short working to College Street; or
2) Cancel a trip altogether

What you have described above is option 1. This happens from time to time on other routes, but is not noticed as much as it only happens where there is traffic congestion etc., and passengers are usually transferred to another bus in order to complete their journey.

Controllers do have the right to cut a journey short on any route where necessary from an operational perspective. In the case of buses leaving Damastown displaying College Green or O'Connell Street they may well be running sufficiently late that the controller makes the decision to operate the service short to College Green before it departs. However, I would agree that this is of no help to anyone going to beyond College Green.

The reason you are seeing it on route 38/a and indeed routes 39/a is that the rosters that were implemented in October are (at certain times) not fit for purpose and controllers are having to make operational decisions every day in order to get buses and drivers back on schedule. The same thing has happened on routes 145, 46a, 47 and 63 when they were reorganised as part of the Network Direct problem - each of these routes has had to have short workings operating at certain times in order to get buses back on schedule.

Routes 46a, 47 and 63 all now have new rosters and timetables that allow sufficient time to get from one end of the route to the other and for the public timetable to operate properly. That is still outstanding for the 38/a, 39/a and 145 but is from what I've read in the pipeline.

It should never take this long to resolve, but it has. The basic problem is that the rosters on routes 38/a as designed when the Network Direct project was implemented were impossible to operate at certain times. If the controllers did not cut the journey short then the problems would continue with more and more time lost during the day with the result that an entire journey would be lost.

That is what has been happening for four months since the new timetables/rosters were introduced. The issue is now finally about to be addressed with new rosters, but it should never have been left for four months like this.

For clarification - I have no affiliation with any party involved in this.

Ok so basically the schedule on the 38 and 38/a since the removal of buses and increases in waiting times since the implementation of network direct has made it impossible for buses to run to the times on the timetables. I have no issue with this and understand that all businesses have to implement changes to meet operational demands.

My issue is the comeplete lack of information and refusal to accept the fact that the route has changed from what is on the timetables both at the stops and on the website.

It clearly states Baggot street on both when in fact a large percentage of the buses are not running to baggot street but Oconnell street..if this isnt a change of route im a leprechaun.

The controllers are changing the routes to create the illusion that network direct is not a complete disaster and the people who are getting shafted are the passengers as per usual.

I appreciate your post and dont get me wrong im not attacking you im attacking the constant denial that changing the destination which the 38 or 38a runs to is somehow deemed not a route change.

Its like saying that night is day.

meanmachine3 · 24-02-2011 11:15am

Bazzer2 wrote: »

Meanmachine: Conserve your energy. As a bus driver, you should know that there are some people you just can't help and will never be satisfied, no matter how many times explanations are offered.

i'm trying bazzer, i'm tryin really hard.:D

Jaysoose wrote: »

WTF help, explanations and advice? Do You mean meanmachines passive agressive and to be honest incredibly patronising post from last night?

if you have a problem with my post from last night please feel free to report me, or if you want i'll report me for ya.:D. those that know me from posting and the tone of my posts would know that was nothing. in fact it would be one of the mildest posts i've made on these kind of threads.

Jaysoose wrote: »

I have been offered excuses from drivers as to why management are forcing them to do this that and the other, not once has it even been acknowledged on here that the route has changed which it clearly has.

OK jaysoose you win it was changed. months ago. when it went from hawkins street to burlington mews

Jaysoose wrote: »

im simply looking for people opinions on this route and why dublin bus are deciding to change it without giving any information to the people that pay the fares. .

no, you've a big gripe with bus drivers and dublin bus and you looking to add fuel to the fire.

Jaysoose wrote: »

I have made sent in numerous complaints and am still waiting on responses.

hence my replies of "ring phibsboro garage and ask to speak to one of the managers they are the only people who can answer your questions.

Jaysoose wrote: »

Who are you to say the thread should be locked

heyyyy i'm meanmachine one of the baddest and meanest bus drivers out there

.
so whats next jay, heyy i have an idea why dont you start a thread calling for a boycott of dublin bus.

Jaysoose · 24-02-2011 11:32am

meanmachine3 wrote: »

i'm trying bazzer, i'm tryin really hard.:D
if you have a problem with my post from last night please feel free to report me, or if you want i'll report me for ya.:D. those that know me from posting and the tone of my posts would know that was nothing. in fact it would be one of the mildest posts i've made on these kind of threads.

OK jaysoose you win it was changed. months ago. when it went from hawkins street to burlington mews

no, you've a big gripe with bus drivers and dublin bus and you looking to add fuel to the fire.

hence my replies of "ring phibsboro garage and ask to speak to one of the managers they are the only people who can answer your questions.

heyyyy i'm meanmachine one of the baddest and meanest bus drivers out there .
so whats next jay, heyy i have an idea why dont you start a thread calling for a boycott of dublin bus.

meanmachine3 · 24-02-2011 11:41am

Jaysoose wrote: »

damn it jaysoose.now you've ruined my day. now i'll be going into work with a dirty big smile on my face and i'll be polite and courtious to all my lovely passengers thanks to this. thanks again for ruining my day.:mad:

LXFlyer · 24-02-2011 11:42am

Jaysoose wrote: »

Ok so basically the schedule on the 38 and 38/a since the removal of buses and increases in waiting times since the implementation of network direct has made it impossible for buses to run to the times on the timetables. I have no issue with this and understand that all businesses have to implement changes to meet operational demands.

My issue is the comeplete lack of information and refusal to accept the fact that the route has changed from what is on the timetables both at the stops and on the website.

It clearly states Baggot street on both when in fact a large percentage of the buses are not running to baggot street but Oconnell street..if this isnt a change of route im a leprechaun.

The controllers are changing the routes to create the illusion that network direct is not a complete disaster and the people who are getting shafted are the passengers as per usual.

I appreciate your post and dont get me wrong im not attacking you im attacking the constant denial that changing the destination which the 38 or 38a runs to is somehow deemed not a route change.

Its like saying that night is day.

It might sound as if I am arguing over semantics, but there is an important distinction here.

The situation is this:

For an official route change to take place, a full timetable must be approved in advance by the NTA and revised timetables published and printed.

What is happening is that as far as the company is concerned, the timetable as advertised is what they are endeavouring to operate. However that is frankly impossible due to insufficient running time being allowed in order to operate the service. While the company endeavours to rectify this by drawing a new timetable or rosters that will enable the current timetable to operate properly, the controllers are faced with the dilemma of trying to maintain the current timetable as best they can on a day-to-day basis. That is their job. It has nothing to do with trying to keep up illusions, and I think you're being unfair there. A controller's job is to maintain the advertised service as best they can.

The reason that I am saying all this is that it may well be that one departure is curtailed one day and another departure on a different day. It is not necessarily the same departures. In other words, they have to make an individual decision each day when they are presented with the problem of buses and drivers not being where they are supposed to be. That is the difference between an official route change and an operational decision.

The real target of your ire and frustration should be whoever in DB management decided to implement the original rosters, and who, four months later has still not implemented revised rosters that make everyone's life easier.

The customer is losing out, but I would suggest that DB operational staff (including controllers) are as frustrated as you are.

Jaysoose · 24-02-2011 11:57am

lxflyer wrote: »

It might sound as if I am arguing over semantics, but there is an important distinction here.

The situation is this:

For an official route change to take place, a full timetable must be approved in advance by the NTA and revised timetables published and printed.

What is happening is that as far as the company is concerned, the timetable as advertised is what they are endeavouring to operate. However that is frankly impossible due to insufficient running time being allowed in order to operate the service. While the company endeavours to rectify this by drawing a new timetable or rosters that will enable the current timetable to operate properly, the controllers are faced with the dilemma of trying to maintain the current timetable as best they can on a day-to-day basis. That is their job. It has nothing to do with trying to keep up illusions, and I think you're being unfair there. A controller's job is to maintain the advertised service as best they can.

The reason that I am saying all this is that it may well be that one departure is curtailed one day and another departure on a different day. It is not necessarily the same departures. In other words, they have to make an individual decision each day when they are presented with the problem of buses and drivers not being where they are supposed to be. That is the difference between an official route change and an operational decision.

The real target of your ire and frustration should be whoever in DB management decided to implement the original rosters, and who, four months later has still not implemented revised rosters that make everyone's life easier.

The customer is losing out, but I would suggest that DB operational staff (including controllers) are as frustrated as you are.

Are we arguing over the definition of the word 'change'? At the end of the day all people need is information either on the website or something at the stops. Its not rocket science either run the route as stated or inform the passengers. The passengers had no input into the network direct changes which by all acounts have been devised by people that have no view of what actually happens on the routes etc which obviously is frustrating for all concerned but it doesnt absolve dublin bus etc from giving basic information to the people that pay for the service. Lets leave it at that obviously we are going round in circles.

changed, chang·ing, chang·es.

v.tr.

<LI itxtvisited="1">To cause to be different:change the spelling of a word.
[*]To give a completely different form or appearance to; transform: changed the yard into a garden.
<LI itxtvisited="1">To give and receive reciprocally; interchange: change places.
[*]To exchange for or replace with another, usually of the same kind or category: change one's name; a light that changes colors.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/change#ixzz1EsNHteAq

Jaysoose · 24-02-2011 12:07pm

meanmachine3 wrote: »

damn it jaysoose.now you've ruined my day. now i'll be going into work with a dirty big smile on my face and i'll be polite and courtious to all my lovely passengers thanks to this. thanks again for ruining my day.:mad:

yawn.

LXFlyer · 24-02-2011 12:11pm

The reason I am making the point is that there is a distinct difference in law regarding this.

DB are allowed make operational decisions in the event of buses not running to time, but they are not allowed to formally change services without NTA approval.

They are still trying to operate the advertised timetable. But operationally that is impossible and controllers are having to make day-to-day decisions with regard to that.

That is an important legal distinction.

With regard to Network Direct, to be fair a lot of the problems have now been resolved. However, the 38/a, 39/a and 145 still need revised rosters. But there may well be internal issues affecting that (I don't actually know).

Jaysoose · 24-02-2011 12:20pm

lxflyer wrote: »

The reason I am making the point is that there is a distinct difference in law regarding this.

DB are allowed make operational decisions in the event of buses not running to time, but they are not allowed to formally change services without NTA approval.

They are still trying to operate the advertised timetable. But operationally that is impossible and controllers are having to make day-to-day decisions with regard to that.

That is an important legal distinction.

With regard to Network Direct, to be fair a lot of the problems have now been resolved. However, the 38/a, 39/a and 145 still need revised rosters. But there may well be internal issues affecting that (I don't actually know).

So calling it an operational change means in dublinbus speak it isnt a change?. The customer knows where they stand with DB and its at the bottom of the list. With regards to network direct this has reduced the number of buses running on the 38 and 38a routes and increased the waiting times so its almost like it was designed to make the service worse and people can call it an 'improvement' all they like but people are not stupid and can see through the spin.

ArmaniJeanss · 24-02-2011 12:22pm

Would I be right to assume that a large percentage of the Damastown to Baggot St 38As are also scheduled to do the return trip Baggot St to Damastown, that basically the same bus does continuous 38A journeys for all its operational time that day.

So what happens to the return trip when the initial journey is terminated at O'Connell St? Does the bus continue to Baggot St empty and then do the reverse journey, or does it start the return trip at O'Connell St or in the College Green area. Or does it disappear to another route?

I've had plenty of time to ponder this question whilst waiting in Leeson St for the scheduled 38As in the evening.

Tickityboo · 24-02-2011 12:31pm

Jaysoose wrote: »

Are we arguing over the definition of the word 'change'? At the end of the day all people need is information either on the website or something at the stops. Its not rocket science either run the route as stated or inform the passengers. The passengers had no input into the network direct changes which by all acounts have been devised by people that have no view of what actually happens on the routes etc which obviously is frustrating for all concerned but it doesnt absolve dublin bus etc from giving basic information to the people that pay for the service. Lets leave it at that obviously we are going round in circles.

changed, chang·ing, chang·es.

v.tr.
<LI itxtvisited="1">
<LI itxtvisited="1">To cause to be different:
change the spelling of a word.

As you have been informed numerous times the route has not CHANGED!!
Just certain departures to stop the whole scheduale from collapsing.
Do you really expect DB to be able to put it on the website that a journey had to be cut short within a few minutes notice or someone in a van ready to dash around all the bus to tell everybody!!

LXFlyer · 24-02-2011 12:41pm

Jaysoose wrote: »

So calling it an operational change means in dublinbus speak it isnt a change?. The customer knows where they stand with DB and its at the bottom of the list. With regards to network direct this has reduced the number of buses running on the 38 and 38a routes and increased the waiting times so its almost like it was designed to make the service worse and people can call it an 'improvement' all they like but people are not stupid and can see through the spin.

It has nothing to do with speak. What you have suggested is that there has been a formal change in the the timetable which should be advertised on the website and on stops.

What I am saying is that the problem is that it is not the same buses affected every day - the circumstances can change and that different services are being affected. That is rather difficult to advertise unless you formally change the timetables.

I don't disagree with you that the customer has been shortchanged by this nonsense. However, if the existing advertised timetable had proper rosters backing it up it would be acceptable. It advertises 62 departures from Damastown Monday to Friday when you combine the 38 and 38a, exactly the same number as before the changes were introduced. OK the 38b/c are gone, but there have been drops in usage across the network regardless of the ND changes. and the company has to respond to that.

What you should be querying is why revised rosters have not been introduced to allow the advertised service operate. That is the nub of the issue.

Jaysoose · 24-02-2011 12:46pm

Tickityboo wrote: »

Jaysoose wrote: »

Are we arguing over the definition of the word 'change'? At the end of the day all people need is information either on the website or something at the stops. Its not rocket science either run the route as stated or inform the passengers. The passengers had no input into the network direct changes which by all acounts have been devised by people that have no view of what actually happens on the routes etc which obviously is frustrating for all concerned but it doesnt absolve dublin bus etc from giving basic information to the people that pay for the service. Lets leave it at that obviously we are going round in circles.

changed, chang·ing, chang·es.

v.tr.
<LI itxtvisited="1">
<LI itxtvisited="1">To cause to be different:
change the spelling of a word.

As you have been informed numerous times the route has not CHANGED!!
Just certain departures to stop the whole scheduale from collapsing.
Do you really expect DB to be able to put it on the website that a journey had to be cut short within a few minutes notice or someone in a van ready to dash around all the bus to tell everybody!!

This route change is happening consistently over the last month or so its not a one off therefore dublinbus should be informing the customers. I dont accept that this has not been changed as i see it with my own eyes.

KD345 · 24-02-2011 1:54pm

Jaysoose wrote: »

Tickityboo wrote: »

This route change is happening consistently over the last month or so its not a one off therefore dublinbus should be informing the customers. I dont accept that this has not been changed as i see it with my own eyes.

Out of interest, what do you really want Dublin Bus to do?

Bear in mind, they can't alter a timetable without approval and they can't alter a route without approval.

They don't know when traffic will be bad, or when a bus might get delayed. All they can do is run the service as best they can, and they seem to be doing that.

There is a problem with the 38, but it's out of the control of Dublin Bus. Until the NTA approve new schedules and timetables it can't change.

Jaysoose · 24-02-2011 1:57pm

KD345 wrote: »

Jaysoose wrote: »

Out of interest, what do you really want Dublin Bus to do?

Bear in mind, they can't alter a timetable without approval and they can't alter a route without approval.

They don't know when traffic will be bad, or when a bus might get delayed. All they can do is run the service as best they can, and they seem to be doing that.

There is a problem with the 38, but it's out of the control of Dublin Bus. Until the NTA approve new schedules and timetables it can't change.

People simply want the buses to run to the destination specified on the timetables.

They alter the timetables and routes to suit themselves just because they dont publicise the fact doesnt mean its not happening.

People are not stupid.

KD345 · 24-02-2011 2:00pm

Jaysoose wrote: »

KD345 wrote: »

People simply want the buses to run to the destination specified on the timetables.

They alter the timetables and routes to suit themselves just because they dont publicise the fact doesnt mean its not happening.

People are not stupid.

Of course people want the buses to run properly, nobody has suggested otherwise. What timetable has been altered?

You haven't answered my question. What is it exactly you want Dublin Bus to do

Jaysoose · 24-02-2011 2:21pm

KD345 wrote: »

Jaysoose wrote: »

Of course people want the buses to run properly, nobody has suggested otherwise. What timetable has been altered?

You haven't answered my question. What is it exactly you want Dublin Bus to do

Seriously? whats hard to understand.

KD345 · 24-02-2011 5:59pm

Jaysoose wrote: »

KD345 wrote: »

Seriously? whats hard to understand.

So, you still can't tell us what it is you want Dublin Bus to do?

I've read through this thread. You're complaining about Dublin Bus and insulting bus drivers. It's been explained to you that a revised schedule has been agreed for Route 38 but is waiting for approval from the NTA.

Now, in the meantime, Dublin Bus can do one of two things. Run a bus to the City Centre where passengers can board a connecting bus to complete their journey or walk the short distance, or they can take the bus out of service altogether.

They can't alter a timetable without approval form the NTA, and they can't change a route without approval.

Of course, the original timetable was wrong and probably should never have been implemented, but from reading past threads here, it was thought the running time given to route 38 by the NTA was sufficient. It clearly isn't, and any hold up along the route is having a serious impact on the timetable.

You keep saying you want Dublin Bus to tell passengers the route has changed, but it's been explained to you. many times, that the route hasn't changed at all.

dublinbus should be informing the customers

The most Dublin Bus can do is announce that a new internal schedule is awaiting approval from the NTA. Maybe if you directed some of your anger towards them you might get a quicker result.

Dublin Bus route 38 route - changed?

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