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How to Use A Roundabout

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    #662
    J_R
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭J_R


    Slick50 wrote: »
    This one?...

    Yes

    I want him to explain the sequential system (?) that would allow him to safely navigate the two roundabouts. (And obey the basic rules of the road)

    One roundabout has the 2nd exit on the right, the second is on the left.

    He said navigate just about any roundabout format


    Simple question, awaiting answer


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    #663
    J_R
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭J_R


    Hi

    Bigcheeze, so that there can be no misunderstanding, to clarify my question further, please see diagrams.


    sketch1.png

    sketch3.png

    Please explain this sequential system.

    You enter red arrow and exit black arrow

    Which lane do you enter and use each time.


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    #664
    J_R
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭J_R


    Hi,

    And again 3rd exit this time.


    You enter red arrow and exit black arrow

    Which lane do you enter and use each time.

    sketch4.png

    sketch5.png


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    #665
    whydoibother?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 758 ✭✭✭whydoibother?


    I was told by a driving instructor to use the 12 O'Clock method. I think the diagram illustrates the problem with counting exist perfectly. Also, if you're driving in a new area and come across a roundabout with for e.g. 6 or 7 exits, I think studying a road sign long enough to work out which number you are could be downright dangerous. Too much time with eyes off the road.


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    #666
    Vertakill
    Registered Users Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭Vertakill


    J.R, do you REALLY need it explained or are you just being pedantic?

    One of the benefits of the 'sequential method' was that it's incredibly cut and dry.

    First 2 exits, left lane.
    Any subsequent exit, right lane.

    There, done.


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    #667
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Right


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    #668
    vibe666
    Registered Users Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    i think on of the problems with the use of the sequential method is that it leaves potential for an uneven build-up of traffic on busy roundabouts with lots of exits.

    once roundabouts reach a certain size, the sequential method becomes increasingly ineffective, whereas the clocks method can be expanded as large as it needs to, particularly on busy roundabouts.


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    #669
    J_R
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭J_R


    Vertakill wrote: »
    J.R, do you REALLY need it explained or are you just being pedantic?

    One of the benefits of the 'sequential method' was that it's incredibly cut and dry.

    First 2 exits, left lane.
    Any subsequent exit, right lane.

    There, done.
    and
    LordSutch wrote: »
    Right

    Are you serious ?

    So 3rd exit right lane. That should be fun


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    #670
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Vertakill wrote: »
    J.R, do you REALLY need it explained or are you just being pedantic?

    One of the benefits of the 'sequential method' was that it's incredibly cut and dry.

    First 2 exits, left lane.
    Any subsequent exit, right lane.

    There, done.

    Nonsesne.
    Any exit after straight on, right lane.
    There, done.


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    #671
    whydoibother?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 758 ✭✭✭whydoibother?


    Vertakill wrote: »
    J.R, do you REALLY need it explained or are you just being pedantic?

    One of the benefits of the 'sequential method' was that it's incredibly cut and dry.

    First 2 exits, left lane.
    Any subsequent exit, right lane.

    There, done.

    Except for the fact that on a 7 exit roundabout, you have 4 exits worth of traffic on the inside, the more difficult place to be as they all have to find space to get out again in time for their exit.


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    #672
    whiterebel
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    whydoibother? wrote: »
    Except for the fact that on a 7 exit roundabout, you have 4 exits worth of traffic on the inside, the more difficult place to be as they all have to find space to get out again in time for their exit.

    Whereas the other way you have to try and figure out a clock with 7 exits? I know which one I'd take. How you are supposed to use the clock method on a roundabout you have never used or seen before defies belief.


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    #673
    Vertakill
    Registered Users Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭Vertakill


    J_R wrote: »
    Are you serious ?

    Firstly, you can hardly use LordSutch's reply against me. We've no idea what he's even referring to (your question, or the OP)... so yeah, my point still stands. It's very cut and dry (provided you're not LordSutch).
    J_R wrote: »
    So 3rd exit right lane. That should be fun

    Anyways, you asked a question that's been answered dozens of times throughout this entire ridiculously long thread. I didn't invent it, I'm just explaining the incredibly easy to follow rule to you.

    It's annoying when a huge portion of the posts in here debating which is better or worse could've been avoided if everyone actually understood BOTH methods.
    Instead, it's much easier to delve into your memory of people cutting you up on roundabouts an associate every incident with the idea that all those drivers must've been using the 'sequential method'. (That last paragraph was not aimed at you JR).
    whydoibother? wrote: »
    Except for the fact that on a 7 exit roundabout, you have 4 exits worth of traffic on the inside, the more difficult place to be as they all have to find space to get out again in time for their exit.

    The problem when people visualise the sequential method is that they're trying to visualise it working concurrently with the RotR method. That's the wrong idea.

    If everyone used the sequential method, there is actually less of an issue leaving a roundabout than there is with the RotR method because the people in the left lane are only taking the 1st or 2nd exit, the rest of the traffic is using the right hand lane.

    The RotR method could involve the majority of the traffic using the left hand lane for taking the 4th or 5th exits, thus bypassing the first few exits whilst the people that've joined the roundabout from the right hand lane struggle to exit because of all the traffic in the left lane.
    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Nonsesne.
    Any exit after straight on, right lane.
    There, done.

    I was responding to a question JR posed for Bigcheeze, not claiming which is better/worse/indifferent. So read a few posts up yea?


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    #674
    perry stanley
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭perry stanley


    Hey chaps , its a uk roundabout. Uk driving rules apply. And don't try some (alot) of those excuses with the South Wales Police. I know :o


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    #675
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    whiterebel wrote: »
    Whereas the other way you have to try and figure out a clock with 7 exits? I know which one I'd take. How you are supposed to use the clock method on a roundabout you have never used or seen before defies belief.

    All you have to do for the clock method is look straight ahead.
    Any exit before straight ahead=left lane
    Any exit after straight ahead=right lane
    If you are capable of looking straight ahead you have figured out the clock method.
    Unless someone got kicked in the head by a mule and now one eye looks towards London and the other towards Rio I don't see how anyone with an IQ above 60 couldn't figure this one out.


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    #676
    J_R
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭J_R


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    All you have to do for the clock method is look straight ahead.
    Any exit before straight ahead=left lane
    Any exit after straight ahead=right lane
    If you are capable of looking straight ahead you have figured out the clock method.
    Unless someone got kicked in the head by a mule and now one eye looks towards London and the other towards Rio I don't see how anyone with an IQ above 60 couldn't figure this one out.

    Hi,

    Simple. Also remember that there is a large sign on approach with a drawing of the roundabout.

    I suspect some of the posters on here got hit on the head by a large clock when children, consequently have ended up with a hugh complex regarding clock faces..


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    #677
    whydoibother?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 758 ✭✭✭whydoibother?


    whiterebel wrote: »
    Whereas the other way you have to try and figure out a clock with 7 exits? I know which one I'd take. How you are supposed to use the clock method on a roundabout you have never used or seen before defies belief.

    What do you mean "try and figure out a clock"? The clock method is the easiest thing in the world whether you've seen the thing before or not. All you do is look straight ahead and decide whether your ultimate destination is to the right of that point or not.


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    #678
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Slick50 wrote: »
    I think you know the answer to that Chris. It would be interesting to see alright. Would it be possible to contact everyone that has voted and invite them to re-vote in a parallel thread.

    Done!


    Re-Vote thread here:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056186308

    Do your worst, people!!! :D


  • Options
    #679
    Slick50
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    -Chris- wrote: »
    Done!


    Re-Vote thread here:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056186308

    Do your worst, people!!! :D

    Don't know if that was brave or insane, but should be interesting, cheers.
    Whatever about roundabouts, it seems to be much more difficult to get off a thread around here. The arguements have definitely done a few full revolutions though, and coming around again. Check mirrors, indicate.....


  • Options
    #680
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    J_R wrote: »
    and

    Are you serious ?

    So 3rd exit right lane. That should be fun

    1st Exit Left lane, 2nd Exit Left lane, 3rd Exit from the right hand lane, easy!

    Its just basic common sense really, simples ;)


  • Options
    #681
    bazzachazza
    Registered Users Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭bazzachazza


    Great thread just proves how many people in this country are poorly educated when it comes to driving. Also proves how many people THINK they are in the right when it comes to driving and are not just doing it to get ahead of the pack.

    I'm sure similar could be said for Right lane and middle lane drivers etc etc etc etc.

    I give up with the drivers of this country there is no "quick" fix i.e. advertising. The long term solution is enforcement and I see no evidence of the Gardai being interested in doing this.

    I voted Right and Re-voted Right.


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    #682
    whiterebel
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    All you have to do for the clock method is look straight ahead.
    Any exit before straight ahead=left lane
    Any exit after straight ahead=right lane
    If you are capable of looking straight ahead you have figured out the clock method.
    Unless someone got kicked in the head by a mule and now one eye looks towards London and the other towards Rio I don't see how anyone with an IQ above 60 couldn't figure this one out.

    You're making a huge assumption which suggests to me you went a bit close to the mule yourself ; that there isn't a big hump, signpost, flowerbed or whatever in the middle of the roundabout. Also, the amount of perfectly aligned 180 degree roads on roundabouts seem to be in the minority.

    If you are capable of counting past two you should be able to use the other method properly.


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    #683
    101sean
    Registered Users Posts: 2,884 ✭✭✭101sean


    Decided to look in on this thread after ignoring it for ages, read first and last two pages (can't be arsed to read the rest:o) and can't believe how worked boardsies get worked up about it. Can't vote 'cos the right answer isn't there :D

    It's a UK roundabout, you use either lane, check mirrors, signal, watch for muppets wandering across both lanes and filter in. It's a two lane approach and the exit is wide enough for two with arrows on the road indicating it's dropping to one. I'd do the same here but be very aware that many drivers here haven't a clue when it comes to roundabouts. Most of my driving life has been in the UK and I drove hundreds of roundabouts like that.

    Increasingly on busy UK roundabouts there are signs indicating well in advance which lane to use as many UK drivers also no longer seem to have any common sense. They also have spiral road makings on some of the biggest but I think that confuses matters.


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    #684
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    The first roundabout at Longford, heading towards Sligo is like this.

    Either lane is ok, but the left lane is better than the right, and in the case of battle the left lane has right of way.


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    #685
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    J_R wrote: »
    I suspect some of the posters on here got hit on the head by a large clock when children, consequently have ended up with a hugh complex regarding clock faces..


    Har har. Thing is, they probably didn't get hit by, or on, a roundabout. Nor have they been hit over the head with a copy of the current (ambiguous) RoTR.



    bazzachazza wrote: »
    Great thread just proves how many people in this country are poorly educated when it comes to driving. Also proves how many people THINK they are in the right when it comes to driving and are not just doing it to get ahead of the pack.

    I'm sure similar could be said for Right lane and middle lane drivers etc etc etc etc.

    I give up with the drivers of this country there is no "quick" fix i.e. advertising. The long term solution is enforcement and I see no evidence of the Gardai being interested in doing this.

    I voted Right and Re-voted Right.


    For the record, I originally voted Left and have just re-voted Right. In fact, following this thread has led me to change my method and I now use the straightforward and intuitive 12 o'clock rule of thumb. This changes nothing on the standard 4-arm cruciform roundabout, but on some others (such as this one) I am now in the right lane to take a right turn after 12 o'clock as opposed to being in the left lane to take the second exit.

    It hasn't made much difference so far. The changeover was easy, but then I always take great care on roundabouts and I don't necessarily encounter the trickiest situations day to day.

    However, I did have someone sneak up on my left here while travelling from the dual carriageway left of picture to dual carriageway bottom right, despite there being signage and lane markings to indicate the correct lane in addition to the allegedly standard 12 o'clock 'rule'.

    Also for the record, with regard to enforcement I emailed two named Garda Inspectors in the Traffic Corps (CCing two generic AGS Traffic email addresses) on Feb 3 about this. I received an acknowledgement on Feb 8 and have heard nothing since despite emailing again to remind them. I'll wait a while longer, but while waiting I find it hard not to concur with the view that there is little evidence of AGS having any interest in this issue.

    The question, though, is enforcement of what? The RoTR guidelines are ambiguous and incomplete, and there is at least one anecdotal report in this thread of AGS pulling someone for taking a lane indicated by the clock method. You will also find alleged instances on Boards of Garda vehicles being driven in an irregular manner on roundabouts in non-emergency situations. There's more to being "poorly educated" than individual driver behaviour.





    .


  • Options
    #686
    raveydavey
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭raveydavey


    Left hand lane. Do you have a drivers licence? I hope not if you're saying right.
    Theres a book you can get to help. Its called THE RULES OF THE ROAD. I advise you to read it. And watch the ad's on tv too, where the RSA explain how to use roundabouts. If you crashed in to a car while coming off r/about and you were in right lane and he was in left lane, you'd be held to blame.


  • Options
    #687
    Senna
    Registered Users Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    raveydavey wrote: »
    If you crashed in to a car while coming off r/about and you were in right lane and he was in left lane, you'd be held to blame.

    You don't cut from the right lane straight out to an exit, thats would be stupid. Using your philosophy, you would never be in the right lane, as if you have an accident, your always in the wrong lane:rolleyes:

    From the sounds of it, you (not all poster saying left, just you) think the left lane is correct because you don't know how to use mirrors, signal, manoeuvre.


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    #688
    J_R
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭J_R


    Vertakill wrote: »
    J.R, do you REALLY need it explained or are you just being pedantic?

    One of the benefits of the 'sequential method' was that it's incredibly cut and dry.

    First 2 exits, left lane.
    Any subsequent exit, right lane.

    There, done.
    LordSutch wrote: »
    1st Exit Left lane, 2nd Exit Left lane, 3rd Exit from the right hand lane, easy!

    Its just basic common sense really, simples ;)
    Hi,

    OK so the last roundabout
    sketch5.png
    On approach, Mirrors, blind spot check, indicate, move to right hand lane , then after passing 2nd exit, mirrors blins spot check indicate and move over exit in 3rd exit.

    NOW, suppose down the road a mile or two there is an almost identical roundabout but this one has one less exit. The "First" exit is missing.
    sketch7.png

    This time you want to take the 2nd exit and using the sequential method you simply stay left and exit.

    Both times you are taking the exit at the same position on the roundabout but using two complete different routes.

    Can you not see how idiotic the route the sequential method (?) makes you take in the first instance.

    To finish, there is no such animal as a sequential system or method. What all you "lefties" appear to be quoting is an EXPLANATION on how to negotiate a perfect 4 exit roundabout with exits at 90 degs etc


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    #689
    pippip
    Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭pippip


    raveydavey wrote: »
    Left hand lane. Do you have a drivers licence? I hope not if you're saying right.
    Theres a book you can get to help. Its called THE RULES OF THE ROAD. I advise you to read it. And watch the ad's on tv too, where the RSA explain how to use roundabouts. If you crashed in to a car while coming off r/about and you were in right lane and he was in left lane, you'd be held to blame.

    The Irish rules of the road state left lane for STRAIGHT ahead or left exit, which part of the 80degree right turn on the op roundabout do you consider to be straight?


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    #690
    Vertakill
    Registered Users Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭Vertakill


    I'm doing my very best not to sound like a total pr!ck here..

    J_R, it's clear you've joined this thread late as you're posing questions and scenarios that've been answered several times over.
    J_R wrote: »
    Can you not see how idiotic the route the sequential method (?) makes you take in the first instance.

    No.. the point of it is that you REDUCE the amount of opportunities that you can cut up others, or be cut up by others.... based on the fact that the maximum number of exits that you can pass by in the left hand lane is 1. It's not a perfect method for every roundabout by any means, but either is the current RotR method.
    However, I still reckon it's safer than the RotR method (but I do use the RotR method now).

    Using the RotR method, depending on how big the roundabout is, you could literally pass by 5 or 6 exits in the left hand lane (Champs-Élysées) and not take any of them, which makes life VERY difficult for the drivers that are on the inside lane on the roundabout. This is how you cut people off.

    Anyways, the debate about this has been over about 5 pages ago. We've come to the conclusion that the RSA have not done enough to educate road users on correct roundabout usage or the subsequent changes that they've made, but failed to advertise properly.
    J_R wrote: »
    To finish, there is no such animal as a sequential system or method. What all you "lefties" appear to be quoting is an EXPLANATION on how to negotiate a perfect 4 exit roundabout with exits at 90 degs etc

    Well, according to the RSA in 2006'ish, this was the preferred method. Also, many driving instructors who've started up business around this time are STILL teaching this method to road users to this day. This is clear by the number of Irish driving instructor websites that are still quoting the old 'sequential method' (there's a list of all of them posted in this thread somewhere).
    But if you had read any of this thread, you would've known that.

    Also, you refer to users of the 'sequential method' as 'lefties', which is ironic, considering people using said method are the people who would actually be using the right hand lane more often than most road users.


    It's the people that overuse the left hand lane that cause the incidents on roundabout, not the people in the right/inner lane. And the RotR method clearly underuses the right hand lane... so make up your own conclusions.

    I'm beyond the point of defending one method or another, but at least understand both methods and the merits of each before you try and discredit one.

    The issue now is to identify the problem which the RSA has caused and address it. Unfortunately the RSA have stated that they don't see this as a problem, so a resolution is unlikely.


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    #691
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    J_R wrote: »
    To finish, there is no such animal as a sequential system or method. What all you "lefties" appear to be quoting is an EXPLANATION on how to negotiate a perfect 4 exit roundabout with exits at 90 degs etc



    The very same can be said of the Clock method.

    The point is -- and I am getting RSI trying to explain this -- the RoTR does not provide a satisfactory, clear and unified approach for all drivers and all roundabouts.

    This thread started off here, went through some other roundabouts like this one, and is currently stuck going round and round on something like this!


This discussion has been closed.
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