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Roundabout
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But, on that same roundabout, if you are entering in right hand lane coming from town and exiting directly from the right hand lane onto Bothar na dTreabh, and I am entering on the left hand lane from the Headford Road and taking the Liosban exit (second exit for me), then you will be cutting right across me when you exit, which is surely a recipe for disaster.TristanPeter wrote: »+1
As I said above, these things are not always black and white. If people just try to stick to the lane they enter the roundabout on and leave on the same lane (2 lane roundabout) then things should be fine. You just have to watch out for people switching lanes mid-roundabout or on exiting. MSM
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Iwannahurl wrote: »Oh dear. No wonder there is such confusion.
Does this kind of messing happen in the UK and in other European countries where roundabouts are common?
No it doesn't. Road markings in the Netherlands are crystal clear. Simple roundabouts only have one lane, 'complicated' ones have arrows and lines where you just get into the right line beforehand and exit at the correct one.
The difficult ones also have intelligent lights (traffic dependent) that manage traffic in a sensible way and have mini-kerbs between the lanes so you can't switch where you're not supposed to, and pedestrian/cyclists don't use the roundabout at all but go around it.
(The second picture shows an example of the raised divider between the lanes)
What I hate about the roundabouts here that it's totally unclear what to do due to all the lanes and 'mini-exits' unless you study the roundabout carefully. I remember someone once sent a whole-page letter to the Galway Advertiser explaining how to use the big roundabout Between Tesco, Dunnes and Currys.
But this shouldn't be required of a driver in heavy traffic, the road should be clear enough for the casual driver to make split-second decisions and make the right one every time. Also without intelligent lights they cause huge backlogs because if everyone takes the same exits they basically block all the ones before it from ever entering in heavy traffic. The lack of lights also puts too much pressure on the drivers to rush for small gaps because otherwise they'll never get out, and causes the speed on the roundabout to grow to dangerous levels.
Edit: It also doesn't help that the rules of the road don't even mention big multi-lane roundabouts or for example which exit to use when there is a multi-lane exit. They only explain the most basic ones :S When I read here that the RSA can't even agree on the standards I can understand why nobody really knows.
I think the way they're done here they create more problems than they solve, and I welcome the replacement by intelligently managed crossings such as at the huntsman/wellpark. Waiting times have really been reduced there.0 -
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GekkePrutser wrote: »No it doesn't. Road markings in the Netherlands are crystal clear. Simple roundabouts only have one lane, 'complicated' ones have arrows and lines where you just get into the right line beforehand and exit at the correct one.
The difficult ones also have intelligent lights (traffic dependent) that manage traffic in a sensible way and have mini-kerbs between the lanes so you can't switch where you're not supposed to, and pedestrian/cyclists don't use the roundabout at all but go around it.
What I hate about the roundabouts here that it's totally unclear what to do due to all the lanes and 'mini-exits' unless you study the roundabout carefully. I remember someone once sent a whole-page letter to the Galway Advertiser explaining how to use the big roundabout Between Tesco, Dunnes and Currys.
But this shouldn't be required of a driver in heavy traffic, the road should be clear enough for the casual driver to make split-second decisions and make the right one every time. Also without intelligent lights they cause huge backlogs because if everyone takes the same exits they basically block all the ones before it from ever entering in heavy traffic. The lack of lights also puts too much pressure on the drivers to rush for small gaps because otherwise they'll never get out, and causes the speed on the roundabout to grow to dangerous levels.
I think the way they're done here they create more problems than they solve, and I welcome the replacement by intelligently managed crossings such as at the huntsman/wellpark. Waiting times have really been reduced there.
If I could thank you a thousand times I would, but just the one will have to suffice.
Are you Dutch, by any chance? If you're used to the standards of road engineering that they have in the Netherlands it must be really frustrating to put up with the sheer stupidity, incompetence and carelessness foisted on us here.
Somehow I can't imagine such a thread on Boards.nl. The familiar refrain again: only in Ireland? With Galway being one of the worst examples of the warped Irish roundabout fetish. Luckily some authorities are at last beginning to see sense, and one or two of the most farcical and dangerous roundabouts are being replaced by signalised junctions.
Maybe in another three to five decades, if we're very lucky, we might see widespread improvement in Ireland and something close to what the Dutch have been enjoying for years.
Veel geluk.
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Threads on roundabouts go round in circles. Mwah ha!
Flipping yokes cause so much trouble.
7 of the buggers I go through on my morning commute, I could add another 4 if I went a different way.
Oh and the answer is right.
If your answer is right, then I suppose you enter the Moneenageisha Rd.in the second (right hand lane) right? 0 -
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A junction where all traffic flows freely, nobody has to stop.Iwannahurl wrote: »What is a "full free-flow junction"?
e.g. - a 'Trumpet' junction could have been built instead of a roundabout at Doughiska. Would have just required a little imagination, it would not have cost a huge amount more than the unimaginative roundabout.
A slightly more compact version could have fitted in at Doughiska without the need for any extra land.
A 'Directional-T' junction is also fully free-flow and allows interchanging between the routes to be done at a higher speed. But they are more expensive than trumpet junctions.
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Simple. I look at the sign:http://maps.google.ie/maps?hl=en&q=sean+mulvoy+road&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Sean+Mulvoy+Rd,+Galway,+County+Galway&t=h&ll=53.282611,-9.039696&spn=0.001193,0.002411&z=19&layer=c&cbll=53.282696,-9.04021&panoid=-t59--p-mivdlAaXiNO2Gw&cbp=12,101.84,,2,-1.01
Third exit at 12 o'clock: Lane 1 (left lane). (The fact that I said that it is the third exit, has nothing to do with my algorithm)
I grant you that the sign is wrong here (the Moneenageisha Exit should be sign-posted at 1 or 2 o'clock). I can see the sign not the actual roundabout (just look at the picture). Not to mention that in bad weather or when needed to act fast, I might not see the tiny line indicating the first exit (the text "Sandy Rd" is not on the sign).
Reading the clock is faster than counting the exits in my opinion. (not to mention that you can read the clock without a dial). Applying the clock in conjunction with the information sign is the way to go.
I have to say that Irish roundabouts + Irish signage + Irish driving + the clock method is a recipe for confusion, IMO. No wonder 25% of collisions are occurring on Galway's roundabouts, yet this type of junction is reputedly safer.
In the example we have been discussing, Menlo is the third exit and hence requires the right-hand lane and an initial right indicator.
What do clock-users do when the third exit is at 11 o'clock?Threads on roundabouts go round in circles. Mwah ha!
Oh and the answer is right.
They do indeed.
Eh?A junction where all traffic flows freely, nobody has to stop.
e.g. - a 'Trumpet' junction could have been built instead of a roundabout at Doughiska. Would have just required a little imagination, it would not have cost a huge amount more than the unimaginative roundabout. http://www.infrastructurist.com/wp-content/uploads/trumpet.png
A slightly more compact version could have fitted in at Doughiska without the need for any extra land.
A 'Directional-T' junction is also fully free-flow and allows interchanging between the routes to be done at a higher speed. But they are more expensive than trumpet junctions.
http://cdn.wn.com/pd/73/c4/b3ce8add8e507810c36a77878c14_grande.jpg
Hmmmm. Not near enough urban sprawl and concrete jungle in this country yet. I'd like to rip out the rail lines, bus lanes, cycleways, footpaths and compact residential developments and put in more of this sort of thing: :P
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I don't see any tailbacks on that thing, you may have a point
Getting back to the OP's original image, Driving a tractor unit and trailer you have to either take the lanes as the OP has shown or else take control of the two lanes approaching the roundabout. It's not possible to enter the roundabout in the right hand lane and get around the roundabout all the while staying in the same lane0 -
Iwannahurl wrote: »I have to say that Irish roundabouts + Irish signage + Irish driving + the clock method is a recipe for confusion, IMO. No wonder 25% of collisions are occurring on Galway's roundabouts, yet this type of junction is reputedly safer.
In the example we have been discussing, Menlo is the third exit and hence requires the right-hand lane and an initial right indicator.
What do clock-users do when the third exit is at 11 o'clock?
They do indeed.
Eh?
Hmmmm. Not near enough urban sprawl and concrete jungle in this country yet. I'd like to rip out the rail lines, bus lanes, cycleways, footpaths and compact residential developments and put in more of this sort of thing: :P
You know, you are absolutely right. While I see the advantages and the disadvantages of the exit method, it is clear that I am not even going to make you think about considering the clock method. That's OK...
What this country needs is a bit more regulation, and eventualy the authorities to come forwards and tell Joe Public what to do in such cases. Instead they say pass...
The following is taking from the Rules of the Road at Page 9:
"The overall aim of this booklet is to promote safety, good driving practice and courtesy in using our roads according to the law. It is an interpretation of the law from a road safety view. If you have a query you should check the legislation or ask a Garda. It covers the road traffic laws currently in force, but it will be updated regularly in the future to take account of new laws."
I wish you all the best. Have a safe journey! (just remember I use the clock method)0 -
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At peak times the traffic would still just queue back up the road from Briarhill, through and over the junction. Briarhill is the source of the problem, that's where a solution needs to be found.A junction where all traffic flows freely, nobody has to stop.
e.g. - a 'Trumpet' junction could have been built instead of a roundabout at Doughiska. Would have just required a little imagination, it would not have cost a huge amount more than the unimaginative roundabout.
A slightly more compact version could have fitted in at Doughiska without the need for any extra land.
A 'Directional-T' junction is also fully free-flow and allows interchanging between the routes to be done at a higher speed. But they are more expensive than trumpet junctions.
The bridge would cost in excess of a million euros. The extra landtake in a residential zoned area would also have constituted a major additional cost. Your almost certainly talking in excess of three million euros in total.
The presence of an overbridge in close proximity to a rapidly developing residential area would also have been problemetical from an environmental and project acceptability point of view.
A dedicated bus only route is also planned to continue from that junction through Merlin Park at some unspecified time in the future. This would imply that an overbridge solution would probably be based on a dumbbell solution, which would give you two roundabouts instead of one. A freeflow facility at a four-way junction would be a pretty imposing creation at that location.0 -
That Menlo exit is the only one that would cause a bit of confusion.
Although I did have someone beep at me here - HERE - when I went out the tuam road coming from bohermore when they were in the right lane coming on to the roundabout.
The clock method was fairly simple there, dunno why he thought he was in the correct lane.
Im only slightly ashamed to admit that coming from the headford rd / Terryland side on to the menlo roundabout in the evenings, that I take the left lane to go right. The traffic flows quicker
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desaparecidos wrote: »This is wrong:
Thanks for listening.
Only this morning at 7am on the Menlo Park/Hedford Road roundabout a young lad gave me the bird when he was incorrect.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6gy-ojmdh8
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