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DCM on TV?

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    #182
    Woddle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    04072511 wrote: »
    . To suggest that watching Bolt V Gay is the same as watching National 100m final as long as its entertaining is an insult to the sport .

    I'm not so sure, I remember watching this race and being very excited
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJgRzG6LKsY&feature=related
    Not a world leading time or anywhere close but it's because you know some of the athletes.
    I can also remember the womens 100 meter final in T&F champs in 09.
    So I would disagree in that a race can be a race without the times.
    Our very own Ronnie Delaney didn't give 2 fcuks about times as long as he did enough for the win.


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    #183
    Woddle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    When does exercise become a sport ? In the variety of athletic events I take part in I have little chance of winning, am I therefore just exercising ?

    There's a sense of elitism creeping into this thread.

    This I felt was the biggest problem in the old layout. When there was an athletics only forum, the average Joe was afraid to post, me included.


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    #184
    shels4ever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    Good to see Athletics snobs are alive and kicking....


    It becomes a sport when you line up for a race.. doesnt matter if your a sub 2:04 marathon runner or a 7 hours runner the line is the same for all


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    #185
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Woddle wrote: »
    I'm not so sure, I remember watching this race and being very excited
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJgRzG6LKsY&feature=related
    Not a world leading time or anywhere close but it's because you know some of the athletes.
    I can also remember the womens 100 meter final in T&F champs in 09.
    So I would disagree in that a race can be a race without the times.
    Our very own Ronnie Delaney didn't give 2 fcuks about times as long as he did enough for the win.

    Yeh of course. Basically all I was saying was that it was a bit rich to say to people on an athletics forum that it really doesnt matter whether a race has big names or not as long as its entertaining. That would be like me going onto the Soccer forum and saying during the world cup that it really doesnt matter, as football is football regardless of standard.

    Anyway way off topic, and I'm partly responsible.


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    #186
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    When does exercise become a sport ? In the variety of athletic events I take part in I have little chance of winning, am I therefore just exercising ?

    There's a sense of elitism creeping into this thread.

    Going for a walk around the block because your doctor told you to get out of the house is exercising. Entering the marathon and you are in a race, you are racing against the exact same clock that the Kenyan at the front is racing.


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    #187
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    shels4ever wrote: »
    Good to see Athletics snobs are alive and kicking....


    It becomes a sport when you line up for a race.. doesnt matter if your a sub 2:04 marathon runner or a 7 hours runner the line is the same for all

    Yeh maybe I came across wrong in what I said. All I was saying was that some people don't care about times and just run to lose weight. I don't personally consider that sport but I can understand if people disagree. Now if somebody set a target of running sub 20, sub 25, sub 30 or whatever for 5k, then that is sport IMO, as they are racing against something (the clock).

    Not trying to bring elitism into things by the way. Would have to be an elite to do that! :D


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    #188
    misty floyd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭misty floyd


    misty floyd wrote: »
    Quoting such and such a runner with such a time blah blah top 10....load of boll0x. Who cares lads, this is silly.

    what I meant here was its pointless arguing this stuff and mentioning these things.
    04072511 wrote: »
    To dismiss the importance of top class athletics is an insult to the sport IMO. Seeing Bolt v Gay is just as important to our sport as Man Yoo V Chelsea is to football.
    04072511 wrote: »
    Absolutely. People seem to forget that this is an ATHLETICS forum. To suggest that the standard of an elite race doesnt matter is like going onto the soccer forum and saying the World Cup doesnt matter.

    You don't need to be able to know everything about athletics to enjoy watching it, thats all I'm saying. I appreciate WR's on track and field and top class athletes. It blows me away what people can do in this sport. I love watching it.

    Stop telling me what I'm 'suggesting'. You are not getting me. We are all on the same side ya know. We all love athletics.


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    #189
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    04072511 wrote: »
    Yeh of course. Basically all I was saying was that it was a bit rich to say to people on an athletics forum that it really doesnt matter whether a race has big names or not as long as its entertaining. That would be like me going onto the Soccer forum and saying during the world cup that it really doesnt matter, as football is football regardless of standard.

    Anyway way off topic, and I'm partly responsible.

    Don't bother with looking at it myself, but I suspect that the soccer forum is about watching it and zero posts about taking part in it. We do at least cover both the taking part and how to aspects of the sport here, as well as the watching of the elite people. Most of the sports forums would be like that, soccer would be the odd one out at a guess.


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    #190
    gerard65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,612 ✭✭✭gerard65


    Charlie Spedding is interviewed in this months 'Running and Fitness' and talks about the decline in British distance running:
    "Road racing used to be a serious sport for competitive runners, but it has been hijacked by charities and overweight joggers. Children who like running at school are presented with events on television which are full of people who can't run very well, or wearing silly costumes. I can't imagine a teenager thinking that is very cool".
    Don't know if I agree with him, but if he's right maybe it would be better for the 'sport' to keep mass events off the TV.


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    #191
    shels4ever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    04072511 wrote: »
    Yeh maybe I came across wrong in what I said. All I was saying was that some people don't care about times and just run to lose weight. I don't personally consider that sport but I can understand if people disagree. Now if somebody set a target of running sub 20, sub 25, sub 30 or whatever for 5k, then that is sport IMO, as they are racing against something (the clock).

    Not trying to bring elitism into things by the way. Would have to be an elite to do that! :D


    I've been guilty of that in the past too, I think its an impression that can come across sometimes from fans of the sport to people who dont.


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    #192
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    misty floyd wrote: »
    what I meant here was its pointless arguing this stuff and mentioning these things.





    You don't need to be able to know everything about athletics to enjoy watching it, thats all I'm saying. I appreciate WR's on track and field and top class athletes. It blows me away what people can do in this sport. I love watching it.

    Stop telling me what I'm 'suggesting'. You are not getting me. We are all on the same side ya know. We all love athletics.

    Well not all of us are.:) Some just like running, and not athletics. In fact the majority of the forum would be in that boat. The discussions on elite athletics are always the ones that fall to the bottom of the forum very quickly with about 3 or 4 posts usually.

    Anyway WAYYYYY off topic! :D


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    #193
    fiddy3
    Registered Users Posts: 138 ✭✭fiddy3


    shels4ever wrote: »
    Good to see Athletics snobs are alive and kicking....


    It becomes a sport when you line up for a race.. doesnt matter if your a sub 2:04 marathon runner or a 7 hours runner the line is the same for all

    Ah now 7 hours would be a walker not a runner!:D Time does matter whether you like it or not. Sport should be competitive, other wise why even time the damn thing, just complete the 26 miles and go on your happy way. It'd be like some primary school "everyone gets a medal day" if it doesn;t retain an element of competition and hierarchy. It takes a hell of a lot more effort to run 2:05 than 5:05. Steve Jones, a legend of the sport, said something very interesting a few weeks ago about the uncompetitive nature of marathons today.
    “In my era we were all competitors and committed to our racing,” he said.
    “We wanted to beat the guy who beat us by 10 seconds last week and keep the guy who we beat behind us.
    “We were athletes and we didn’t go to races because we were raising 10 bucks for this good cause or that good cause.
    “A lot of people are offended when I say that. But I’m a purist at heart and I’ve seen my sport diluted and thinned out.
    “The level of participation has plummeted because my sport has been kow-towed into mass participation charity events.
    “We were hoping we could piggy-back off charity events and fund our own initiatives. But it’s happened the other way around.”


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    #194
    thirtyfoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    gerard65 wrote: »
    Charlie Spedding is interviewed in this months 'Running and Fitness' and talks about the decline in British distance running:
    "Road racing used to be a serious sport for competitive runners, but it has been hijacked by charities and overweight joggers. Children who like running at school are presented with events on television which are full of people who can't run very well, or wearing silly costumes. I can't imagine a teenager thinking that is very cool".
    Don't know if I agree with him, but if he's right maybe it would be better for the 'sport' to keep mass events off the TV.

    Yes, yes, yes. Great point Charlie Spedding. What's cools and sexy about some oul guy who weights 7 stone plodding along with white sh8t foaming out of his mouth or a fat lad in a westmeath jersey shuffling along in agony. What will it do for our sport. It will show kids that its a sh8te sport. Compared to Derval prowling on the startline and blitzing 10 hurdles in 12 seconds or Vlasic bending over a bar or Bolt powering off the bend. Kids will be inspired by that.

    We would all love more athletics to be on TV. Like it not RTE will not show all sporting or cultural events as they are broke. We should count our blessings they even show coverage of the National Indoors and Outdoors. They do have limited resources. If you were Ryle Nugent and you are trying to get the best return on your sporting budget choosing the DCM is not going to be high on the list of priority unless there is Great Ireland Run style inducement. So, to anyone in the real world they will be able to grasp why the DCM is not on RTE live. It would be lovely in a world with fluffy clouds and overweight joggers on unicorns but right now its hard to justify.

    I've said it already. As regards the priority of domestic athletics events, the events RTE should air for free (and without financial inducement) would be:

    Nat Seniors Outdoor
    Nat Senior Indoors
    Irish Schools
    DCM
    Cork City Sports
    Nat Cross

    Only two are shown. There was a time when all were shown. RTE probably do need to justify and prioritise events and if so I'll take the current two with my 'best interest of the sport at heart' hat on.

    PS: Can you believe Spedding mentioned the J term, shocking elitism. Down with that sort of thing.


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    #195
    thirtyfoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    fiddy3 wrote: »
    “In my era we were all competitors and committed to our racing,” he said.
    “We wanted to beat the guy who beat us by 10 seconds last week and keep the guy who we beat behind us.
    “We were athletes and we didn’t go to races because we were raising 10 bucks for this good cause or that good cause.
    “A lot of people are offended when I say that. But I’m a purist at heart and I’ve seen my sport diluted and thinned out.
    “The level of participation has plummeted because my sport has been kow-towed into mass participation charity events.
    “We were hoping we could piggy-back off charity events and fund our own initiatives. But it’s happened the other way around.”

    Be carefull Fiddy with that kind of posting. You might have to hole up with the rest of us elitist nazis in our bunker waiting at any moment for the its not about the racing reds to come crashing through.


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    #196
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    thirtyfoot wrote: »
    Yes, yes, yes. Great point Charlie Spedding. What's cools and sexy about some oul guy who weights 7 stone plodding along with white sh8t foaming out of his mouth or a fat lad in a westmeath jersey shuffling along in agony. What will it do for our sport. It will show kids that its a sh8te sport. Compared to Derval prowling on the startline and blitzing 10 hurdles in 12 seconds or Vlasic bending over a bar or Bolt powering off the bend. Kids will be inspired by that.

    This sums it all up in a nice little package. Great post.


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    #197
    Hard Worker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Hard Worker


    I was the one who invited Lilesa over to Dublin last year. I knew how good a cross country runner he was and had heard he wanted to run a marathon. I was lucky enough to get him over here for Zip euro. I was thankful to his manager and obviously didn't invite him back this year :) Of course Dublin isn't one of the marathon majors, and it is really silly even talking of comparing it so. However, we keep trying to move it up a notch each year. This year I found another gem in Chesoo Kipchirchir. He finished 4th in 2.10 .27. Considering he didn't even have a "real" pair of shoes ( which I didn't realise until after the race ) this wasn't bad going. As far as Kenyans go, he is probably 10 a penny. However, I think he has a world class marathon in him and I can guarantee you that when he does, he will not have forgotton his time in Dublin.
    A lot of managers would see Dublin as being a good stepping stone for some of their young marathon runners. A win in Dublin is now good on your CV.
    Another point I should make is that 2.10.30 is the time the IAAF set as their elite status. Sokolov came over again to try and get inside that time so that he would retain the benefits. Unfortunately, he missed out by 1 second.
    Another thing about Dublin is that we don't use pacemakers, and therefore, it might be considered more difficult to run faster. That might have to change now.
    It was also nice to see Zivile Balciunaite become European Champion this year. She ran the Dublin Marathon a few years ago.
    Getting back to TV: I pointed out a few pages back that live TV costs money and RTE will not be putting a penny towards that. Look back at the European Cross Country Championships in Santry. A six figure sum was handed over to RTE to cover it. If I was to give an honest opinion, I think the Dublin Marathon would have greater viewing figures than the European Cross.
    Over the next while, new sponsors will have to be taken on board and, I'm sure, live TV coverage will also be discussed.


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    #198
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Hard Worker wrote: »
    I was the one who invited Lilesa over to Dublin last year. I knew how good a cross country runner he was and had heard he wanted to run a marathon. I was lucky enough to get him over here for Zip euro. I was thankful to his manager and obviously didn't invite him back this year :) Of course Dublin isn't one of the marathon majors, and it is really silly even talking of comparing it so. However, we keep trying to move it up a notch each year. This year I found another gem in Chesoo Kipchirchir. He finished 4th in 2.10 .27. Considering he didn't even have a "real" pair of shoes ( which I didn't realise until after the race ) this wasn't bad going. As far as Kenyans go, he is probably 10 a penny. However, I think he has a world class marathon in him and I can guarantee you that when he does, he will not have forgotton his time in Dublin.
    A lot of managers would see Dublin as being a good stepping stone for some of their young marathon runners. A win in Dublin is now good on your CV.
    Another point I should make is that 2.10.30 is the time the IAAF set as their elite status. Sokolov came over again to try and get inside that time so that he would retain the benefits. Unfortunately, he missed out by 1 second.
    Another thing about Dublin is that we don't use pacemakers, and therefore, it might be considered more difficult to run faster. That might have to change now.
    It was also nice to see Zivile Balciunaite become European Champion this year. She ran the Dublin Marathon a few years ago.
    Getting back to TV: I pointed out a few pages back that live TV costs money and RTE will not be putting a penny towards that. Look back at the European Cross Country Championships in Santry. A six figure sum was handed over to RTE to cover it. If I was to give an honest opinion, I think the Dublin Marathon would have greater viewing figures than the European Cross.
    Over the next while, new sponsors will have to be taken on board and, I'm sure, live TV coverage will also be discussed.

    Good post and reinforces what many people have been saying here that Dublin is a race where up and coming athletes with potential to possibly become world class go. It is not a race where world class athletes go and its crazy to even think that.

    Perhaps your point about Euro Cross may be true, but the reason RTE have started covering it in the last few years is due to the medal prospects we have had lately (Mary Cullen 4th in 2008) and also due to the fact it was being held in Ireland in 2009. RTE said that they were targeting the European Events for live coverage as that is where they felt our success would come from (which is a huge underestimation of the talents of our athletes by the way given our performances in Berlin last year).

    I'd personally rather see the Euro Cross covered live as it would be a lot more inspiring for young children to see an Irish person like Cullen competing at such a high level than watching thousands of people plod along.


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    #199
    Peterx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭Peterx


    MonkieSocks wrote: »
    Dublin Marathon 2010 On TV

    Extended highlights of the 2010 Lifestyle-Sports adidas Dublin Marathon, in it's 31st year.

    Setanta Sports Thursday 28th Oct at 7.30pm

    thanks


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    #200
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    --amadeus-- wrote: »
    Genuinely hand on heart I have never heard it discussed.

    Assuming you are older than me (25) then you must have walked around with your ears closed or been on a different planet in 1996 and 2000 or indeed any time Sonia was running in a big race!


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    #201
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,133 ✭✭✭plodder


    gerard65 wrote: »
    Charlie Spedding is interviewed in this months 'Running and Fitness' and talks about the decline in British distance running:
    "Road racing used to be a serious sport for competitive runners, but it has been hijacked by charities and overweight joggers. Children who like running at school are presented with events on television which are full of people who can't run very well, or wearing silly costumes. I can't imagine a teenager thinking that is very cool".
    Don't know if I agree with him, but if he's right maybe it would be better for the 'sport' to keep mass events off the TV.
    I don't buy that at all. Seriously, it's not a case of elite runners being impeded in any way, by the joggers. If anything, the money they bring to big events can only be an incentive for them. Does it come down to recognition, or a perceived lack of it, for the guys at the top, by the man on the street? "Oh, you run marathon's? .. in two hours thirty? That's only an hour and a half faster than me. I think my achievement is nearly as good as yours". :pac:

    Anyway, on the "overweight jogger" thing. Maybe the answer is for marathon supporters to be a bit like football crowds and their chants :D


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    #202
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    04072511 wrote: »
    RTE are in financial ruin and if to chose between the two there is no doubt that 1) the World Championships would have a much higher audience

    You have no evidence for this assertion.
    When the Dublin marathon was televised in the 80's, how did audiences for that compare to world championship audiences?
    When the Great Ireland Run was televised, how did the audiences for that compare to the Barcelona audiences?
    Comparisons to rugby and football are pointless, they are completely different sports.

    If RTE had live coverage of the Dublin marathon, the prime audience wouldn't be there to watch it because a) they'd be on the streets and b) before lunch on bank holiday monday is only prime viewing time for Spongebob. But there are these things called video recorders (and even more magical tv boxes!) so they would still be part of the audience. Plus, if they do live broadcast, that gives them the footage to put together a highlights package with interviews, human interest stories, blah blah etc to be broadcast when the race is over, and those 12000 runners and all their families and friends are back at home.

    The real issue in comparing world championships to Dublin marathon coverage is that the world championships would be much cheaper. RTE would buy in to a consortium for footage, their primary expense would be talking heads in a studio. If they covered the marathon - with all the outside broadcast units that would involve - they'd have the whole bill to themselves.


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    #203
    Caprica
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭Caprica


    Just watched the hour long highlight version on Setanta. It wasn't bad, the first 15 mins focused on the Expo, the breakfast run and chat to some athletes. It then went into an extended version of the race.

    Sokolov was hitting the front from the off but as Dick Hooper said the Africans were just sitting on him, the winner looked really impressive. The Russian girl, Aryasova was full of running at the end she looked effortless, her splits were 75 and 71. Great running.

    They also had the headcams, running through the start line, at the water stop in the phoneix park and the finish. The guys were called Brian and Cillan. There was an interview with Bernard Dunne at the end.


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    #204
    --amadeus--
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,096 ✭✭✭--amadeus--


    04072511 wrote: »
    Assuming you are older than me (25) then you must have walked around with your ears closed or been on a different planet in 1996 and 2000 or indeed any time Sonia was running in a big race!

    Between '96 and 2000 I was working in London and Sonia didn't register at all. It was only years later when I read her autobiography I realised how good she was.

    But I have very vague memories of everyone being made on bike racing in the 80s when Sean Kelly and Stephen Roache were winning all round them - Roddy Doyle in one of the Barrytown Trilogy talks about the kids being in bike clubs and setting up bike races. And I remember everyone being boxing mad when Barry McGuigan won his world title. And more recently the place went ape for golf when that NI golfer won the Ryder Cup and Harrington won a couple of majors.

    The Irish - like every other country - love it when they have a winner. Mistaking that for a deep love and interest in whatever sport is a mistake.

    Anyhow Setanta - as a 100% commercial broadcaster with no public service obligation - feel the marathon justifies the production costs. It would be / will be nice to see RTE giving the race a live platform. If they do I'll have to make sure I pace it with an extra big balloon and tape the race in HD so I can go through in slo mo and see if I can spot myself...


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    #205
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,496 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Caprica wrote: »
    They also had the headcams, running through the start line, at the water stop in the phoneix park and the finish. The guys were called Brian and CillanKieran.
    Those two famed celebrities are both boards posters, and were pacers for the day. I really enjoyed the headcam footage. Really captured the spirit of the race for us mid-packers.


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    #206
    Woddle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    I don't know alot regarding RTE and broadcasting and other related stuff but is there a reason why we're assuming it's RTE and not TG4 or Setanta who would have it live.


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    #207
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    --amadeus-- wrote: »
    But I have very vague memories of everyone being made on bike racing in the 80s when Sean Kelly and Stephen Roache were winning all round them - Roddy Doyle in one of the Barrytown Trilogy talks about the kids being in bike clubs and setting up bike races. And I remember everyone being boxing mad when Barry McGuigan won his world title. And more recently the place went ape for golf when that NI golfer won the Ryder Cup and Harrington won a couple of majors.

    The Irish - like every other country - love it when they have a winner. Mistaking that for a deep love and interest in whatever sport is a mistake.

    I remember being in a club about 15 years ago (UFO in Columbia Mills, DJ Francois!!) along with several hundred people all equally off our collective tits, when they started showing a swimming race on a big screen projector. Michelle de Bruin was winning another medal, and suddenly everyone was interested...


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    #208
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,133 ✭✭✭plodder


    DCM program is repeated on Setanta Ireland tomorrow (Sat) morning at 9am, if anyone interested.


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